The interesting thing about tokens is that LoopPay states that issuing banks must update their back end software to support tokens (just like Apple Pay). This tells me LoopPay is using network tokenization (like Apple), unlike Google using gateway tokenization.
So on that front LoopPay looks to be as good as Apple Pay. Except for one big difference: If your issuing bank doesn't support tokens, then LoopPay simply transmits your card magnetic stripe data as if you swiped your card. So there's no security advantage to using it over your card - the card number can still be picked up just like crooks do right now.
So LoopPay is misleading people. They claim 90% of terminals will accept LoopPay. This is correct. But 90% won't be using tokens. I wonder if a user would even know this? If you register a card, does the App tell you "your bank uses tokens, so this card number is protected" or "your bank hasn't updated to use tokens, your card data will be transmitted in its original form".
So while Apple Pay has a lower number of accepted banks, at least 100% of them are secure. With LoopPay, you take your chances.
I don't see why not. Apple just implemented the NFC secure tokenization standard. I expect Google to copy them, as soon as they give up on wallet.
Well, Apple did a bit more than that. But you're right - the heart of the Apple Pay is the tokenization standard. That's the key part. It was developed by EMV (EuroPay/MasterCard/Visa) and is available to anyone. So anyone is able to implement tokenization. As long as they can get the EMV issuers to issue tokens
LoopPay's patented technology turns existing magnetic stripe readers into contactless receivers. On its website, the firm boasts that this means that it can work with around 90% of existing POS terminals, compared to just five percent for Apple Pay.
Seems pretty desperate to me. I don't like contactless cards where my number passes freely from card to reader, much prefer tokenisation. As for the 5% - 90% stat ... ... well done ... ... that's now ... ... and the future is?
Mag stripe contactless looks like Samsung's version of Blackberry's "who wants touchscreen when you can enjoy our nice little buttons" approach to innovation..
As an aside, does anyone know when ApplePay is coming to the UK ??
LoopPay's patented technology turns existing magnetic stripe readers into contactless receivers. On its website, the firm boasts that this means that it can work with around 90% of existing POS terminals, compared to just five percent for Apple Pay.
Seems pretty desperate to me. I don't like contactless cards where my number passes freely from card to reader, much prefer tokenisation. As for the 5% - 90% stat ... ... well done ... ... that's now ... ... and the future is?
Mag stripe contactless looks like Samsung's version of Blackberry's "who wants touchscreen when you can enjoy our nice little buttons" approach to innovation..
As an aside, does anyone know when ApplePay is coming to the UK ??
Quite right - the future is 95% or more, and it will be here in October.
I am convinced that Samsung's acquisition is not just for the magnetic technology, but for some other capability it has. The straightforward magnetic approach, using the actual credit card number (Primary Account Number - PAN), is dead come October. But it could work if Samsung does tokenization - maybe. The NFC approach is way better because it allows for a richer, bidirectional data interchange.
As for coming to the U.K., I had thought that it would be sometime early this year but that doesn't seem to be happening. I have seen occasional items in British press saying that banks are concerned that Apple would get too much information, and raising security concerns. Sounds to me as though
1. the banks don't understand how Apple Pay works, and/or
2. the banks are scared that Apple will open a bank and compete with them. From what I've seen about the behaviour of British banks lately, there wouldn't be a lack of customers if Apple did this
The reason %uF8FFPay is so successful and why the banks love it is not because it makes payment faster and easier for the consumer. It's the security which basically makes it impossible for a hacker to get into a retailer's computer system and steal a database of names, credit card numbers, and other data which permits identity theft, and more importantly for the banks, run up unauthorized charges that the banks have to pay for (U.S. law limits a consumer's liability to $50).
LoopPay is a ridiculously kludgey device that piggybacks on the rear of your phone in a "case" which doubles the thickness, and via a radio frequency "blast" sends your credit card's mag stripe information into the PoS device. As a hack, there's no guarantee that it will work with a PoS device; and it's so bizarre that every merchant will wonder what the hell you're doing. Given the signal strength required to achieve this (remember, no NFC here), I have to believe that the transmission is rather easy to pick up via a nearby snooping device. Realize further that this is a rogue device approach: there is no partnership with or sanctioning by banking institutions. It isn't a secure, modern, token-based system as is Apple Pay. Further, this is an approach anchored in the past: magnetic card reading is not the future. Samsung must be desperate to base their hopes upon something like this: they are obviously in reactive mode, not having strategically planned a solid electronic payments solution.
This is an Apple Pay killer, works with 90% of terminals and as secure as Apple Pay. Why? Because Samsung Pay system is generating a random temporary credit card number each time a payment is made using LoopPay; no permanent credit card number to deal with. And it works across the world, from Whole Foods in New York to taxi cabs in Beijing.
Uh, noone is suggesting Apple invented NFC or biometric solutions. However, there's a shitload of work that Apple did in house bringing all the pieces together.
- Engineering whatever technology it purchased from authentech to actually fit inside the home button, as well as mainting ultra high reliability, accuracy, and robustness. There was NOTHING even close to this on the market before the 5S.
- Designing and engineering the secure enclave
- Building passbook, which house Apple Pay cards and transactions
- Integrating NFC seamlessly with Touch ID, Passbook, and the secure enclave
- Making a ton of deals with CC companies and banks, to ensure compatibility and support
Apple bought authentech all the way back in 2011, which was step 1. Samsung just announced their acquisition now, of this company that wirelessly mimics outdated technology. They have a long way to go to approach anything like the current Apple Pay. Yes, Apple uses existing technologies and acquires companies, but they then improve and engineer the hell out of those things before coming out with a product. Even if another company had purchased authentech for example, I don't think there's any way in hell they would have ended up with something as well done as Touch ID.
Yup. Give the great pastry chef flour, egg, sugar and cream, he'll make a great cake. Give the same ingredients to a McDonald cook, he'll make a dog food. Samsung can buy all of these companies, but they ain't create s.hit.
Comments
I don't see why not. Apple just implemented the NFC secure tokenization standard. I expect Google to copy them, as soon as they give up on wallet.
Originally Posted by Dickprinter
According to the YouTube video, tokenization is coming this year...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw1l149Rb1k
The interesting thing about tokens is that LoopPay states that issuing banks must update their back end software to support tokens (just like Apple Pay). This tells me LoopPay is using network tokenization (like Apple), unlike Google using gateway tokenization.
So on that front LoopPay looks to be as good as Apple Pay. Except for one big difference: If your issuing bank doesn't support tokens, then LoopPay simply transmits your card magnetic stripe data as if you swiped your card. So there's no security advantage to using it over your card - the card number can still be picked up just like crooks do right now.
So LoopPay is misleading people. They claim 90% of terminals will accept LoopPay. This is correct. But 90% won't be using tokens. I wonder if a user would even know this? If you register a card, does the App tell you "your bank uses tokens, so this card number is protected" or "your bank hasn't updated to use tokens, your card data will be transmitted in its original form".
So while Apple Pay has a lower number of accepted banks, at least 100% of them are secure. With LoopPay, you take your chances.
The name is meant to be catchy but it’s awkward.
How is it pronounced?
Loo-pay (isn’t this a pay toilet in the UK?)
Loop-ay (someone from Canada)
Loop Pay( with a pause in the middle)?
does this simply wirelessly transmit the same credit card information as a swipe? If that were the case there's no security argument at all.
Anybody know?
It does. It mimics the magnetic strip being pulled through the slot. So to the reader it looks exactly like a swipe transaction.
As others have said, this goes extinct next October.
Not true.
So far NO ONE can copy Apple's system.
I don't see why not. Apple just implemented the NFC secure tokenization standard. I expect Google to copy them, as soon as they give up on wallet.
Well, Apple did a bit more than that. But you're right - the heart of the Apple Pay is the tokenization standard. That's the key part. It was developed by EMV (EuroPay/MasterCard/Visa) and is available to anyone. So anyone is able to implement tokenization. As long as they can get the EMV issuers to issue tokens
Have this from Finextra;
LoopPay's patented technology turns existing magnetic stripe readers into contactless receivers. On its website, the firm boasts that this means that it can work with around 90% of existing POS terminals, compared to just five percent for Apple Pay.
http://www.finextra.com/news/fullstory.aspx?newsitemid=27019
Seems pretty desperate to me. I don't like contactless cards where my number passes freely from card to reader, much prefer tokenisation. As for the 5% - 90% stat ... ... well done ... ... that's now ... ... and the future is?
Mag stripe contactless looks like Samsung's version of Blackberry's "who wants touchscreen when you can enjoy our nice little buttons" approach to innovation..
As an aside, does anyone know when ApplePay is coming to the UK ??
What an awful name. Loop Pay? Loo Pay? Do we want a payment solution with loopholes? Or pay in an infinite loop?
Jeez...
Does Xiaomi even support Google Wallet? If not, it will be another nail in the Google Wallet coffin.
Have this from Finextra;
LoopPay's patented technology turns existing magnetic stripe readers into contactless receivers. On its website, the firm boasts that this means that it can work with around 90% of existing POS terminals, compared to just five percent for Apple Pay.
http://www.finextra.com/news/fullstory.aspx?newsitemid=27019
Seems pretty desperate to me. I don't like contactless cards where my number passes freely from card to reader, much prefer tokenisation. As for the 5% - 90% stat ... ... well done ... ... that's now ... ... and the future is?
Mag stripe contactless looks like Samsung's version of Blackberry's "who wants touchscreen when you can enjoy our nice little buttons" approach to innovation..
As an aside, does anyone know when ApplePay is coming to the UK ??
Quite right - the future is 95% or more, and it will be here in October.
I am convinced that Samsung's acquisition is not just for the magnetic technology, but for some other capability it has. The straightforward magnetic approach, using the actual credit card number (Primary Account Number - PAN), is dead come October. But it could work if Samsung does tokenization - maybe. The NFC approach is way better because it allows for a richer, bidirectional data interchange.
As for coming to the U.K., I had thought that it would be sometime early this year but that doesn't seem to be happening. I have seen occasional items in British press saying that banks are concerned that Apple would get too much information, and raising security concerns. Sounds to me as though
1. the banks don't understand how Apple Pay works, and/or
2. the banks are scared that Apple will open a bank and compete with them. From what I've seen about the behaviour of British banks lately, there wouldn't be a lack of customers if Apple did this
Does Xiaomi even support Google Wallet? If not, it will be another nail in the Google Wallet coffin.
I do not think Xiaomi, Samsung or any other Android manufacturer support Google Wallet in China.
LoopPay. All I can think of is George Costanza and his interaction with Lupe. I hope Samsung likes a tight tuck.
Based on what I read on their website, it sounds like it does exactly that.
Thanks. Then IIRC with swiping itself set to be deleted they either change their mechanism or go out of business. This September or so?
This is an Apple Pay killer, works with 90% of terminals and as secure as Apple Pay. Why? Because Samsung Pay system is generating a random temporary credit card number each time a payment is made using LoopPay; no permanent credit card number to deal with. And it works across the world, from Whole Foods in New York to taxi cabs in Beijing.
This is an Apple Pay killer,
Thanks for the chuckles...
The owners of LoopPay must think it's Christmas.