Well some of these guys get it, it is not in their best interest to buried their head in the sand and declare Apple will fail and we will all see. The car companies saw what Apple did the cell phone industry, the music player industry as well as the Music industry itself. Apple had turn one very relevant companies into pill of ashes, you do not want to be on the receiving side of Apple business plans which do not include you.
There is no way Apple if they truly working on a car could go it alone since they will need all the car manufactures supplier to be involved. Apple is not going to make all their own parts and get their supplier of electronic gadgets to make car parts.
You're being disingenuous about pilotless planes. There's a big difference between automated systems and pilotless. I think that any pilot of a commercial airline will tell you that we're nowhere near having a pilotless service.
I'm addressing the amount of automation already in an airplane. It is pretty extensive and frankly impressive for a good portion of the journey most planes are on autopilot already. The point being Airplanes are far closer to being fully automated than an automobile and they operate in a far easier environment for automation.
I hate motorbikes with a passion.
You can do so but there really is no justification here.
They're extremely noisy,
Actually they are noisy because it increases safety. People that don't look atleast run the chance of hearing the machines. Frankly one of the issues with electric cars is that people don't hear them which has already become a safety issue. At one time somebody suggested that electric cars be required to put out a minimal amount of noise so that they can be heard.
extremely antisocial
That is the most asinine statement I've ever heard. For one machines don't socialize. For another riders often use their bikes to engage in social activities be it group rides, poker runs, charity events or just plain looking for some tush. In fact from a usage standpoint I would suggest that most bikes are sold for the social benefit to the rider than anything else.
and cause huge numbers of deaths and accidents,
More bull shit? Everyone that mounts a motor cycle has an inherent need to avoid accidents at all costs. After all who suffers in a motor cycle accident?
along with the ensuing sorrow of those left alive, particularly as the bikers tend to be young. I suppose electric could be quieter, but they'll still be death on wheels.
Sure it is easy to die while riding, it is also easy to die mountain climbing and doing a bunch of other activities, that doesn't stop people and shouldn't stop people. Beyond that young people also exhibit a high death rate in automobiles and often for the same reasons they die on motorcycles, poor skills, racing or other high risk activities.
On the other hand, I'd love to see an iBicycle.
A bicycle is no safer on the road than a motor cycle. In fact due to performance issues it is far less safe. In any event bicycle or motor cycle I think you have a very biased mind set.
Apple could dedicate it to the memory of Jobs, not because he cycled, but as a reference to the bicycle of the mind.
Oh come on Jobs is dead, the last thing we need is the company dwelling on the former head of the company.
"Apple has credibility and much more capacity to finance itself than any car producer, but I wouldn't underestimate the ability of the car industry to respond and adapt to the provocation," Fiat Chrysler chief executive Sergio Marchionne said at the Geneva Motor Show, according to the Wall Street Journal.
"but I wouldn't underestimate the ability of the car industry to respond and adapt to the provocation"
Like all the other companies that have joined the boneyard when new technology came into existence. There is no reason to believe that the auto industry will fare any better. The landscape will change to some extent... some companies will die, others will carry on.
The one thing competitors should fear the most is Apple's OS and ecosystem.
These seem like far more intelligent people than MS/Google execs. Instead of scoffing at the idea and pointing out Apple's inexperience in the field (like Ballmer) they're taking it seriously and recognizing that it could be a game changer that they should try to be a part of instead of resisting.
Exactly. And I think the best approach for them would be to try to publicly be part of it learning as much as they can about software from Apple and privately put a lot of effort into making the full electric transition.
Well some of these guys get it, it is not in their best interest to buried their head in the sand and declare Apple will fail and we will all see. The car companies saw what Apple did the cell phone industry, the music player industry as well as the Music industry itself. Apple had turn one very relevant companies into pill of ashes, you do not want to be on the receiving side of Apple business plans which do not include you.
The automobile industry is also different in that they have always had stiff competition to deal with. I suspect this is why we are seeing more rational comments being made by these executives.
There is no way Apple if they truly working on a car could go it alone since they will need all the car manufactures supplier to be involved.
This isn't really a big deal as many of the suppliers to the auto industry are independent businesses. You need bearings you go to a bearing manufacture, struts or shocks a shock manufacture, tires a rubber manufacture and it goes on and on. The chassis is a different story of course. It is the chassis that is where I would expect Apple to think different.
Apple is not going to make all their own parts
Not the stuff that is generic and already produced by others. However they would manufacture those items where they can add value.
and get their supplier of electronic gadgets to make car parts.
Sure they can, there is already a considerable amount of electronics in an automobile and I would expect Apple to add a lot more. The big difference is the need to build reliable electronics to operate in a difficult environment. This will be new for Apple as they can have a car shutting down because a processor gets hot. Realistically the car needs to operate well from -30°F to at least 130°F. Even that wouldn't cover the extremes seen in much of the USA.
One of the reasons I see electrics as niche products is that they really fall flat when trying to operate in the extreme environments that gasoline powered cars do fine in. Think about it, what would the range of an electric car be if it had to run heaters, fans an defrosters to just operate. By the way yes I know there is heat produced by the motors and batteries once the car is in motion but that does nothing for you in the way of a warm up of a conventional car does. Sure the battery could be used to heat up and defrost an electric car but there goes your mileage and your battery is already at reduced capacity due to the cold. Flip,this around and you have the same problems in the heat. We come back to the reality that the battery is the weak link in an electric car and as such greatly reduces where they can be sold with positive results.
This is why I see that success for this project involves advancements in battery technology if iCar is to be a general purpose vehicle. Otherwise it get relegated to being a niche commuter car.
"but I wouldn't underestimate the ability of the car industry to respond and adapt to the provocation"
Like all the other companies that have joined the boneyard when new technology came into existence. There is no reason to believe that the auto industry will fare any better. The landscape will change to some extent... some companies will die, others will carry on.
The difference being that the one company pushing the technology forward (Tesla) isn't patenting anything. The other companies will very easily adapt since it's free to do so.
"The key element is to make sure that when we're working with them -- and we're totally open to work with any of them -- it's a real win-win," Leroy said.
I'm not sure Apple or Google will see it this way. How much equality will surely depend on how disruptive they are.
Bratzel talking about getting closer to autonomous driving is mad. It's not going to happen. We'll have pilotless airlines before we have driverless cars.
It is almost some kind of strange mass delusion. It only exists in blogosphere; talk to anyone in the real world and its obvious autonomous driving is a fantasy. And its not for a lack of technology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost
As to Apple getting into the car industry generally, I think that after the GTAT sapphire hoo-haa, companies are now wary of trusting Apple and are therefore more reluctant to enter into partnerships than they might have been.
I'm sure that fantasy you just stated exists in no one's mind but your own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost
I'd love a hybrid iCar. Volkswagen have always struck me as most closely aligned to Apple, though most people tend to say BMW. If Apple were to price at a Volkswagen level, they would gain mass adoption. They wouldn't at a BMW level.
Volkswagen once announced that they were going to bring out an iBeetle, a car specially made to fit with Apple gear, but it never happened. Perhaps they will now announce a new alliance.
Not to mention over the air firmware updates that recently improved the car's acceleration and previously incorporated a Valet option.
I don't think there is a "valet option," which is something owners are calling for. Currently I think there's just an enthusiast-created warning screen you can download to display on the console screen to inform valets that you can see real time information on how the car is being driven.
I think what owners really want is to put the car in a mode where the car drives like a modest conventional vehicle at a governed speed. I don't think this has been done yet (but no, I do not own a Tesla.)
As for cars I see it being a very long ways off myself, especially in the snowy north where at times seeing the road is very difficult. Further things like traction control work agianst you to get you where you are going. I'm sure they could sell a car into this market but honestly a manual option is needed.
These are not the reasons why autonomous driving is not happening any time soon, if ever. Little things like this could be worked out.
They don't hold a candle to the obstacle of public adoption...the public could not be less interested in giving up DRIVING.
It stuns me how some people willfully ignore this, or just pretend like its a forgone conclusion once the tech is ready. Its not. Its something that all people would have to want, or it falls completely flat on its face, and goes back in the idea drawer.
As for cars I see it being a very long ways off myself, especially in the snowy north where at times seeing the road is very difficult. Further things like traction control work agianst you to get you where you are going. I'm sure they could sell a car into this market but honestly a manual option is needed.
I find "things like traction control" essential for driving in the snowy north (Minnesnowta.) Quality soft rubber snow tires make a big difference too though.
I think the real question is the quality of the traction control, not whether traction control in general is a good thing. I've never felt the need to turn off my traction control (although the off button is right there if I ever change my mind.
These are not the reasons why autonomous driving is not happening any time soon, if ever. Little things like this could be worked out.
They don't hold a candle to the obstacle of public adoption...the public could not be less interested in giving up DRIVING.
It stuns me how some people willfully ignore this, or just pretend like its a forgone conclusion once the tech is ready. Its not. Its something that all people would have to want, or it falls completely flat on its face, and goes back in the idea drawer.
Plus, once it's shown to be safer, the insurance industry will lobby it straight through congress, and self-driving cars will get much more expensive in a big hurry.
These sentiments need to taken with a grain of salt. How many of these car makers [Toyota?] are going to provide Apple Carplay and when? It is unlikely they will be as enthusiastic in partnerships based current behavior in the future. I suspect that the challenges of working with the automakers would play a role in any decision makes regarding this industry [software only as opined in Tech Review, some software and a few hardware thingies to add, expanded CarPlay, dedicated Apple Car, etc.]. Apple has been burned with partnering from Microsoft, Motorola, IBM, Adobe, Google, SAMSUNG, INTEL, etc., and so will be very careful [recent IBM case may provide guidance on how Apple sees partnerships].
Apple certainly knows how to operate world wide sales, huge supply chains, interact with host of national regulatory agencies, provide technology enhancements and improvements, etc., so there are no barriers in these areas. Whether there is real opportunity to dramatically improve cars and their production beyond the current efforts e.g., Tesla and other electric cars, based on the reality of the environment, that is, roads, [Horace Dedui's article] is open for debate and I am sure it is ongoing in Apple.
The only real and fundamental issue is focus. Can Apple expand its scope yet again as its gets involved in media, wearables, fashion, health, ihome, etc., on top of its successful Mac, iPhone, iPad, and Services seems quite the stretch for at least the next 5 years? However, Apple constantly surprises and their utter indifference even contempt of standard business models, theories, and analysis suggests there are many more surprises ahead for us.
This seems to me to be the first time that Apple is (potentially) entering a new segment and the current players are taking it seriously.
Everything after iPhone. Tablets, apps, music, NFC payment, watches, set top box, OS in general, these are all "new segments" being chased by the respective industry leaders. Once you have an established infrastructure it's hard to break in and take over. How many players tried to de-crown Netflix? There is a reason why Apple hasn't gone full bore into streaming yet. Apple doesn't just stab at an idividual product anymore. They make it part of the ecosystem so you "need it". Auto is a next integration due to the lack of dominating standard.
Comments
There is no way Apple if they truly working on a car could go it alone since they will need all the car manufactures supplier to be involved. Apple is not going to make all their own parts and get their supplier of electronic gadgets to make car parts.
Last I heard, Toyota does this the quickest at 18 months.
Oh come on Jobs is dead, the last thing we need is the company dwelling on the former head of the company.
Ya, it will.
"but I wouldn't underestimate the ability of the car industry to respond and adapt to the provocation"
Like all the other companies that have joined the boneyard when new technology came into existence. There is no reason to believe that the auto industry will fare any better. The landscape will change to some extent... some companies will die, others will carry on.
The one thing competitors should fear the most is Apple's OS and ecosystem.
Apple and Google?
We didn't take them seriously several times. They created affordable luxury vehicles, and have led the charge in hybrid vehicles.
Exactly. And I think the best approach for them would be to try to publicly be part of it learning as much as they can about software from Apple and privately put a lot of effort into making the full electric transition.
One of the reasons I see electrics as niche products is that they really fall flat when trying to operate in the extreme environments that gasoline powered cars do fine in. Think about it, what would the range of an electric car be if it had to run heaters, fans an defrosters to just operate. By the way yes I know there is heat produced by the motors and batteries once the car is in motion but that does nothing for you in the way of a warm up of a conventional car does. Sure the battery could be used to heat up and defrost an electric car but there goes your mileage and your battery is already at reduced capacity due to the cold. Flip,this around and you have the same problems in the heat. We come back to the reality that the battery is the weak link in an electric car and as such greatly reduces where they can be sold with positive results.
This is why I see that success for this project involves advancements in battery technology if iCar is to be a general purpose vehicle. Otherwise it get relegated to being a niche commuter car.
The difference being that the one company pushing the technology forward (Tesla) isn't patenting anything. The other companies will very easily adapt since it's free to do so.
"The key element is to make sure that when we're working with them -- and we're totally open to work with any of them -- it's a real win-win," Leroy said.
I'm not sure Apple or Google will see it this way. How much equality will surely depend on how disruptive they are.
Bratzel talking about getting closer to autonomous driving is mad. It's not going to happen. We'll have pilotless airlines before we have driverless cars.
It is almost some kind of strange mass delusion. It only exists in blogosphere; talk to anyone in the real world and its obvious autonomous driving is a fantasy. And its not for a lack of technology.
As to Apple getting into the car industry generally, I think that after the GTAT sapphire hoo-haa, companies are now wary of trusting Apple and are therefore more reluctant to enter into partnerships than they might have been.
I'm sure that fantasy you just stated exists in no one's mind but your own.
I'd love a hybrid iCar. Volkswagen have always struck me as most closely aligned to Apple, though most people tend to say BMW. If Apple were to price at a Volkswagen level, they would gain mass adoption. They wouldn't at a BMW level.
Volkswagen once announced that they were going to bring out an iBeetle, a car specially made to fit with Apple gear, but it never happened. Perhaps they will now announce a new alliance.
This is all correct.
Not to mention over the air firmware updates that recently improved the car's acceleration and previously incorporated a Valet option.
I don't think there is a "valet option," which is something owners are calling for. Currently I think there's just an enthusiast-created warning screen you can download to display on the console screen to inform valets that you can see real time information on how the car is being driven.
I think what owners really want is to put the car in a mode where the car drives like a modest conventional vehicle at a governed speed. I don't think this has been done yet (but no, I do not own a Tesla.)
As for cars I see it being a very long ways off myself, especially in the snowy north where at times seeing the road is very difficult. Further things like traction control work agianst you to get you where you are going. I'm sure they could sell a car into this market but honestly a manual option is needed.
These are not the reasons why autonomous driving is not happening any time soon, if ever. Little things like this could be worked out.
They don't hold a candle to the obstacle of public adoption...the public could not be less interested in giving up DRIVING.
It stuns me how some people willfully ignore this, or just pretend like its a forgone conclusion once the tech is ready. Its not. Its something that all people would have to want, or it falls completely flat on its face, and goes back in the idea drawer.
As for cars I see it being a very long ways off myself, especially in the snowy north where at times seeing the road is very difficult. Further things like traction control work agianst you to get you where you are going. I'm sure they could sell a car into this market but honestly a manual option is needed.
I find "things like traction control" essential for driving in the snowy north (Minnesnowta.) Quality soft rubber snow tires make a big difference too though.
I think the real question is the quality of the traction control, not whether traction control in general is a good thing. I've never felt the need to turn off my traction control (although the off button is right there if I ever change my mind.
These are not the reasons why autonomous driving is not happening any time soon, if ever. Little things like this could be worked out.
They don't hold a candle to the obstacle of public adoption...the public could not be less interested in giving up DRIVING.
It stuns me how some people willfully ignore this, or just pretend like its a forgone conclusion once the tech is ready. Its not. Its something that all people would have to want, or it falls completely flat on its face, and goes back in the idea drawer.
Many in the younger generation don't care to drive, at all. The car is not the status symbol it used to be. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/01/social-media-driving-millennials/2898093/
Plus, once it's shown to be safer, the insurance industry will lobby it straight through congress, and self-driving cars will get much more expensive in a big hurry.
Apple certainly knows how to operate world wide sales, huge supply chains, interact with host of national regulatory agencies, provide technology enhancements and improvements, etc., so there are no barriers in these areas. Whether there is real opportunity to dramatically improve cars and their production beyond the current efforts e.g., Tesla and other electric cars, based on the reality of the environment, that is, roads, [Horace Dedui's article] is open for debate and I am sure it is ongoing in Apple.
The only real and fundamental issue is focus. Can Apple expand its scope yet again as its gets involved in media, wearables, fashion, health, ihome, etc., on top of its successful Mac, iPhone, iPad, and Services seems quite the stretch for at least the next 5 years? However, Apple constantly surprises and their utter indifference even contempt of standard business models, theories, and analysis suggests there are many more surprises ahead for us.
Everything after iPhone. Tablets, apps, music, NFC payment, watches, set top box, OS in general, these are all "new segments" being chased by the respective industry leaders. Once you have an established infrastructure it's hard to break in and take over. How many players tried to de-crown Netflix? There is a reason why Apple hasn't gone full bore into streaming yet. Apple doesn't just stab at an idividual product anymore. They make it part of the ecosystem so you "need it". Auto is a next integration due to the lack of dominating standard.