Apple to reportedly bolster iAd user targeting with phone numbers and emails

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  • Reply 21 of 49
    tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post

     

     

     

    Settings > Privacy > Advertising > Limit Ad Tracking. ;)


     

    Cool.

  • Reply 22 of 49
    ktappektappe Posts: 824member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post



    Settings > Privacy > Advertising > Limit Ad Tracking. ;)


     

    Thank you. I had no idea that was there. I wonder how many other users don't know about it?

  • Reply 23 of 49
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,388member
    ktappe wrote: »
    Thank you. I had no idea that was there. I wonder how many other users don't know about it?

    Android devices kinda hide it away too. For the benefit of AI members who use both platforms:
    To turn off interest-based ads you go to Settings>Accounts>Google>Ads. Most won't know about that either. No one wants you to opt-out of ad targeting it seem and both Apple and Google have it on as default.

    As an aside there's actually several settings you may have to adjust if you want to avoid personalized ads while in Apple's ecosytem (You can't turn data collection off altogether as far as I can tell) . Your iDevice is only a part of it.
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202074
  • Reply 24 of 49
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 2,294member
    I have this nasty gut feeling that Tim is being mesmerized by sales numbers and dollar signs. The more successful (big!) they become, the less important us small people are. For example, I was very vocal to Apple through several channels, including directly to Tim's email address (very rare for me!), about a particular feature dropped from Pages 5.x, and yet had zero response. That small feature was HUGE in our world and use of Apple products, and yet Apple pushes forward without caring one bit. Let's hope this is not a sign of things to come. Keep the product and the people separate, Apple! And listen to the people!
  • Reply 25 of 49
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Let's not forget iAd started under Steve Jobs.
  • Reply 26 of 49
    agramonteagramonte Posts: 345member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Settings > Privacy > Advertising > Limit Ad Tracking. ;)




    key word there "Limit"

  • Reply 27 of 49
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 1,076member
    if true, it really contradicts the previous apple credo of using personal info to help make the products better.

    if enough people complain, tim cook may need to explain.

    i think it's a shitty idea and it's one of the main reasons i use apple products.
  • Reply 28 of 49
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,528member
    gatorguy wrote: »







    Settings > Privacy > Advertising > Limit Ad Tracking. ;)
    It doesn't limit the data collection taking place AFAIK but supposedly will put limits on third party uses for targeted ads. I think it applies only to apps /developers and whether or not they're permitted to use your personal Advertising Identifier to single you out for personalized ads. You might read up on it as I could be mistaken.

    FWIW you can completely turn off ad tracking at Google too, but the data collection still takes place unless you totally opt our of Google services.

    Freudian typo
  • Reply 29 of 49
    lostkiwilostkiwi Posts: 639member
    quinney wrote: »
    Freudian typo
    Good spotting!!
  • Reply 30 of 49
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    coolfactor wrote: »
    I have this nasty gut feeling that Tim is being mesmerized by sales numbers and dollar signs. The more successful (big!) they become, the less important us small people are. For example, I was very vocal to Apple through several channels, including directly to Tim's email address (very rare for me!), about a particular feature dropped from Pages 5.x, and yet had zero response. That small feature was HUGE in our world and use of Apple products, and yet Apple pushes forward without caring one bit. Let's hope this is not a sign of things to come. Keep the product and the people separate, Apple! And listen to the people!

    Small feature so huge that you wrote TC... but don't say here what that feature is? Maybe someone might offer a work around... is that what you're afraid of?
  • Reply 31 of 49
    rokoroko Posts: 1member
    I have turned off every possible thing on iphone , I bought a car cover , before I went to Mexico for vacation , guess what's coming in my Safari search results???
    Cheap car covers and affordable Mexico vacations!!! I did not put anything in search engine for Mexico , my phone was even shut off because I didn't want to accidentally use the roaming data. How in the heck they know I was in Mexico and why I am being offered best and lowest price car covers ?????
  • Reply 32 of 49
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 2,294member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post





    Small feature so huge that you wrote TC... but don't say here what that feature is? Maybe someone might offer a work around... is that what you're afraid of?

     

    Not afraid, just didn't want to divert from the essence of the topic by getting too specific. I've already given up hope on the feature in question being restored to Pages. And yes, it was big enough (to us) to raise the issue directly with Tim, but only after months of sending feedback via the official Feedback form and getting nothing positive in return.

  • Reply 33 of 49
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,385member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post



    I have this nasty gut feeling that Tim is being mesmerized by sales numbers and dollar signs. The more successful (big!) they become, the less important us small people are. For example, I was very vocal to Apple through several channels, including directly to Tim's email address (very rare for me!), about a particular feature dropped from Pages 5.x, and yet had zero response. That small feature was HUGE in our world and use of Apple products, and yet Apple pushes forward without caring one bit. Let's hope this is not a sign of things to come. Keep the product and the people separate, Apple! And listen to the people!

     

    What a hilarious email. So the CEO of the largest company in the world didn't respond to your personal email? And you cite this as an "example" of how Apple is going down the tubes? Are you that naive, that entitled, and that disconnected to actually EXPECT him to reply to you? Cook no doubt gets thousands of emails a day, if he responds, it's an extreme rarity, not a damn expectation. Are you 6 yrs old? And in all that verbiage, you still haven't shared what this magical feature was.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post

     

     

    Not afraid, just didn't want to divert from the essence of the topic by getting too specific. I've already given up hope on the feature in question being restored to Pages. And yes, it was big enough (to us) to raise the issue directly with Tim, but only after months of sending feedback via the official Feedback form and getting nothing positive in return.


     

    ..and after being asked again, you still refuse to say. Amazing. Stop pretending it's some huge deal that you emailed Tim. It isn't, and he's not obligated to respond to you. If the feature is gone, it probably means only a very tiny percentage of people used or cared about it. Grow the hell up. Apple didn't get to where it is by "listening to the people!". It did so by doing what it believed was right, not not trying to please every single person and all their pet features. 

  • Reply 34 of 49
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    I really wish Apple would get out of the advertising business. It's a conflict of interest with Tim Cook's stated principles about privacy.
  • Reply 35 of 49
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 2,294member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

     

     

    What a hilarious email. So the CEO of the largest company in the world didn't respond to your personal email? And you cite this as an "example" of how Apple is going down the tubes? Are you that naive, that entitled, and that disconnected to actually EXPECT him to reply to you? Cook no doubt gets thousands of emails a day, if he responds, it's an extreme rarity, not a damn expectation. Are you 6 yrs old? And in all that verbiage, you still haven't shared what this magical feature was.

     

     

    ..and after being asked again, you still refuse to say. Amazing. Stop pretending it's some huge deal that you emailed Tim. It isn't, and he's not obligated to respond to you. If the feature is gone, it probably means only a very tiny percentage of people used or cared about it. Grow the hell up. Apple didn't get to where it is by "listening to the people!". It did so by doing what it believed was right, not not trying to please every single person and all their pet features. 




    I don't appreciate your tone. You don't know me and you don't have enough info to judge me. All I said was that I have a gut feeling about a change in Apple, a company that I have followed closely for 25 years. I don't need to reveal the specific missing feature to make my point. It's simply my gut feeling that a change is occurring, and yes, the dropping of a feature has directly impacted my work. Just because I am one individual doesn't make this feature any less important to me. I have every right to very politely enquire about why this feature was dropped and if and when it will be restored. You seemed to think that I was a jerk to Apple about this. I wasn't.

  • Reply 36 of 49
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,406moderator
    tundraboy wrote: »
    Okay, I'm not sure this is in keeping with the "You are our customer not our product" ethos that Apple touts. Somebody please explain why this is no different from Facebook and Google's practices.

    This isn't Apple's main business. Google has to put this business model throughout most of their company's products because it's ~90% of their revenue, same with Facebook. With Apple, it's under 10%.

    It's not Apple choosing to use the advertising model, it's 3rd party developers publishing on Apple's platform. Given that they've made this choice already, Apple can only do two things: allow the advertising business to go to Google etc or offer a competing service. For Apple's service to be compelling enough for developers to ditch Google's ad service, it has to be competitive with it and that means competitive click-through rates.

    It's a little hypocritical to say that customers aren't the product when they offer advertising but their privacy policy outlines how they do it:

    https://www.apple.com/privacy/

    "A few years ago, users of Internet services began to realize that when an online service is free, you’re not the customer. You’re the product. But at Apple, we believe a great customer experience shouldn’t come at the expense of your privacy.
    Our business model is very straightforward: We sell great products. We don’t build a profile based on your email content or web browsing habits to sell to advertisers. We don’t “monetize” the information you store on your iPhone or in iCloud. And we don’t read your email or your messages to get information to market to you. Our software and services are designed to make our devices better. Plain and simple.
    One very small part of our business does serve advertisers, and that’s iAd. We built an advertising network because some app developers depend on that business model, and we want to support them as well as a free iTunes Radio service. iAd sticks to the same privacy policy that applies to every other Apple product. It doesn’t get data from Health and HomeKit, Maps, Siri, iMessage, your call history, or any iCloud service like Contacts or Mail, and you can always just opt out altogether."

    These additions of phone number and emails would be used as anonymous identifiers.

    A developer would choose to build an ad-supported app. They have to choose an ad service from a provider. If they chose iAd, the ads would load inside the app. AFAIK, iAd is only used inside apps and not on websites so there's no browsing history that can be associated with it like with AdMob, although it can probably track iTunes store data like movies, music, books ( http://advertising.apple.com/benefits/ ). It would be able to check which apps you were interested in so if you have a whole load of fitness apps installed then the developer could potentially ask what kind of apps is the current user interested in and behind the scenes, iAd knows who the user is more accurately and lets iAd know to show fitness ads.

    That's not quite the same as you typing in that you want a particular product in a search or on Amazon and then visiting a totally unrelated website and seeing that exact product you were looking for.

    - it's better for Apple to offer advertising services because the alternative is that developers use another service
    - Apple's service is limited in scope so it can't track data to as fine-grained a level as businesses where ~90% of their revenue depends on targeting

    If you don't want to be tracked at all, limit the tracking but also just avoid ad-supported apps. Unlike with Google and Facebook, that will mean you are completely ad-free.

    Apple doesn't track you like this:

    http://www.howtogeek.com/197348/how-to-clear-your-google-search-history-on-android/
    http://www.businessinsider.com/eric-schmidt-we-know-where-you-are-we-know-where-youve-been-we-can-more-or-less-know-what-youre-thinking-about-2010-10

    "We don't need you to type at all. We know where you are. We know where you've been. We can more or less know what you're thinking about."

    Apple can't say the same. Only Facebook and Google can say this because their entire business depends on it. That might make their ad service more effective but that doesn't appear to be the case:

    http://www.digitalruby.com/iad-vs-admob/

    "*UPDATE* February 2015, Admob ECPM is 0.08, iAd is 1.6. AdMob (Google) is no longer worth having in my apps at this rate."

    That developer had 20x higher earnings via Apple's ads than Google's despite Google being able to offer more fine-grained targeting. This could be down to Apple controlling some of the iAd quality. I know when I see Google ads, they generally look like scams (diet foods, fitness scams and so on) and I avoid clicking on them. Apple's ads look more like what you'd find on TV:

    http://advertising.apple.com/ad-showcase/

    They have guidelines here covering privacy issues and ad quality:

    https://developer.apple.com/iad/content-guidelines/iAd_Content_Guidelines.pdf

    I can't imagine they'd allow ads like the following:

    http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/14/evolution-of-evony-video-game-ads/comment-page-6/


    Maybe Google doesn't either but they have a pretty low bar for ad quality. Again this is because their whole business growth depends on it. Google and Facebook try to grow revenue by going deeper into privacy invasion because they think that the most effective solution is to identify a user as closely as possible to link a user with a product. They don't seem to consider quality control as a valuable element in the effectiveness.
  • Reply 37 of 49
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    coolfactor wrote: »

    I don't appreciate your tone. You don't know me and you don't have enough info to judge me. All I said was that I have a gut feeling about a change in Apple, a company that I have followed closely for 25 years. I don't need to reveal the specific missing feature to make my point. It's simply my gut feeling that a change is occurring, and yes, the dropping of a feature has directly impacted my work. Just because I am one individual doesn't make this feature any less important to me. I have every right to very politely enquire about why this feature was dropped and if and when it will be restored. You seemed to think that I was a jerk to Apple about this. I wasn't.

    And *I* don't appreciate your secrecy.

    Especially since it might help others here to properly evaluate Pages for clients, but also because it might be a feature we could all get behind to lobby for a quick return to Pages.

    * Speaking for myself only... but it appears others might appreciate your "coming out" as well; and if for no other reason, do it for your standing within this community, which includes many people that have far more sway and experience with Apple than you (or I!) do. ;)
  • Reply 38 of 49
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    - it's better for Apple to offer advertising services because the alternative is that developers use another service

    Isn't that a false alternative? The third option being, since Apple controls what is and is not allowed on the App Store, they could make the following change to the App Review Guidelines:

     

    7. Advertising

    7.1 Due to Apple's deeply held values of privacy, no app on the iOS or Mac App Store shall be ad-supported. Acceptable forms of revenue are (i) up-front payment and (ii) in-app purchase. Apps that contain advertisements will be rejected.

  • Reply 39 of 49
    nobodyynobodyy Posts: 377member
    ascii wrote: »
    Isn't that a false alternative? The third option being, since Apple controls what is and is not allowed on the App Store, they could make the following change to the App Review Guidelines:

    7. Advertising

    7.1 Due to Apple's deeply held values of privacy, no app on the iOS or Mac App Store shall be ad-supported. Acceptable forms of revenue are (i) up-front payment and (ii) in-app purchase. Apps that contain advertisements will be rejected.

    You can't be serious...
  • Reply 40 of 49
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,388member
    ascii wrote: »
    Isn't that a false alternative? The third option being, since Apple controls what is and is not allowed on the App Store, they could make the following change to the App Review Guidelines:

    7. Advertising

    7.1 Due to Apple's deeply held values of privacy, no app on the iOS or Mac App Store shall be ad-supported. Acceptable forms of revenue are (i) up-front payment and (ii) in-app purchase. Apps that contain advertisements will be rejected.
    From Apple's Privacy Policy, updated when iOS8 was released in September:

    "As is true of most internet services, we gather some information automatically and store it in log files. This information includes Internet Protocol (IP) addresses, browser type and language, Internet service provider (ISP), referring and exit websites and applications, operating system, date/time stamp, and clickstream data.... to gather demographic information about our user base as a whole. Apple may use this information in our marketing and advertising services....

    Knowing someone using your computer or device has shopped for a certain product or used a particular service helps us make our advertising... more relevant to your interests."


    But they are not permitted to share personal information with 3rd parties for marketing tho it can be used for Apple's own advertising programs, which I believe would include iAd would it not? Note that many other ad placement companies Privacy Policies (ie Google) also prohibit sharing personal information with 3rd parties for marketing purposes so it's not uncommon.

    There's really a lot of details that most users likely have no idea about anymore than they know what they've agreed to when installing most software packages or apps. IMHO there's a reason that Mr. Cook has been talking up privacy so much lately. Apple's policies are changing with regards to advertising, personal/non-personal data and particularly iAd.

    Like the insurance add says, "The more you know..."
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