Can you show that law? Any proof that it exists or is it a figment of your imagination?
Sure I already proved that. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Try and make that change. Two males or two females can to procreate. Let me know how attempting to change either of those works out for you. Hence laws of nature.
If something is wrong because it's against the laws of nature, you'd better shut down your computer quick. Talking to strangers on the other side of the world is a perversion of nature.
While I agree with the religious comment, marriage is a little different than a straight forward business contract. A prenuptial is a contract but a marriage is a ceremony expressing mutual commitment. The only reason for a license is, 1. to confirm you are old enough, of sound mind, and 2. that you are not already married. That, and you will be married by someone licensed to perform the marriage (not always true though). And to also pay a fee to get the license.
Other than that I don't think the government should be involved in deciding who you can marry and they certainly should not be providing financial/social advantages to married couples other than you can inherit all of your spouse's assets without tax.
I said nothing about a marriage license. Contract law covers all legal aspects of a union between people. If a person wants a prenup or a ceremonial marriage certificate from the person or religious institution providing the marriage service, that's another matter.
What if the couple doesn't want to have children? Should we ban them from marrying? You know there are several married couples who made a choice not to have children?
For someone in spite of my best efforts you keep bringing marriage back up. I have no issue with gay marriage. We all know gays wanting the right to marry has nothing to do with love, having children or anything other then state and federal benefits. Back to having children it's simply my counter argument that being gay is natural. It isn't because if everyone was gay we would no longer exist.
Gay couples have every right to equal protection under the law, however that is very different then being gay is just as natural as not being gay. It isn't.
If something is wrong because it's against the laws of nature, you'd better shut down your computer quick. Talking to strangers on the other side of the world is a perversion of nature.
Sure I already proved that. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Try and make that change. Two males or two females can to procreate. Let me know how attempting to change either of those works out for you. Hence laws of nature.
You're using words, but not making any actual statements. How does same sex marriage change anything about how procreation works? You do realize that herero couples in Alabama can still make babies if Alabama suddenly stops acting like Alabama, right?
If something is wrong because it's against the laws of nature, you'd better shut down your computer quick. Talking to strangers on the other side of the world is a perversion of nature.
What you are taking about is technology which by the way is the only way gays can procreate. So if you want we can agree they are both perversions of nature. Your words not mine.
What you are taking about is technology which by the way is the only way gays can procreate. So if you want we can agree they are both perversions of nature. Your words not mine.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Speaking for myself, I'm blocking you. With any luck, you'll grow to understand that all people are relatively similar in that everyone wants what is best for us as individuals and there is no such thing as a "one size fits all" philosophy. Even within religions there are large areas of disagreement.
This says a lot about the mentality of the liberal "progressive". If I believe homosexual behavior is not only wrong but an offense against even the basic laws of nature, I'm labeled a conservative wacko.
This is the beginning of major persecution against anyone who disagrees with the liberal progressive. It's NOT a step forward but a major step backward when good people are fined hundreds of thousands of dollars or even put in jail for politely standing by their religious convictions – not hurting ANYONE.
This is hypocritical, disturbing, and wicked to destroy indivual and family businesses because they cannot, in good conscience, support homosexual marriage. Families have already lost their businesses because friends and neighbors have not respected their religious convictions but rather have taken them to court! Selfish and wicked.
But what value does my voice have? None, because I'm labeled a "wacko"!
Oh, please cry me a god damn river. You don't a clue what persecution is!
Getting beat up in the street, or not having a job, because someone doesn't like the way you look, walk or talk... That's persecution.
You probably think christian white men are persecuted right now in the US...
Lets see, replace homosexual by black and you have the 1950s segregation arguments. Please Google this before replying again.
Marriage is a civil contract, mostly having to do with property, religion has nothing to do with it. The religious ceremony is totally separate.
Homosexuality exists in nature, so how can it be against nature. Are animals immoral?
Or maybe you don't think we come from animals... Well, then I can't help you at all.
I could go on about your blatant ignorance for quite a bit, but there is probably no point to it.
The especially annoying bit is trying to pass off the opinion as science. Just makes the ignorance worse.
On the Christian religious side, we have people completely tossing Corporal Works of Mercy to pass judgement on humans who, according to their own beliefs, were made in the image and likeness of God.
...pass judgement on humans who, according to their own beliefs, were made in the image and likeness of God.
That's a fair point. People believe in things because of their own experiences, so I can't condemn someone else completely, even if they choose to condemn someone else. People discover different points of view at different speeds and few people will change their point of view if they believe they are being attacked.
I said nothing about a marriage license. Contract law covers all legal aspects of a union between people. If a person wants a prenup or a ceremonial marriage certificate from the person or religious institution providing the marriage service, that's another matter.
And I am arguing against that. A marriage is not a legal contract. You can walk out on a marriage anytime you want and not be sued for breaking a contract. You can change your mind without any legal repercussions. A prenup is a different matter as that is an actual legal contract.
The other point I was making is to what degree there should be any governmental involvement, since you brought up the subject of government in your original post and you are always going on about the government should stay out of everything.
And I am arguing against that. A marriage is not a legal contract. You can walk out on a marriage anytime you want and not be sued for breaking a contract. You can change your mind without any legal repercussions. A prenup is a different matter as that is an actual legal contract.
The other point I was making is to what degree there should be any governmental involvement, since you brought up the subject of government in your original post and you are always going on about the government should stay out of everything.
Oh, no you cannot. As of now, a "marriage" and a "legal agreement" are the same thing. You may want to argue government involvement in marriage-related matters, especially ceremonial matters, should be removed from the influence of any and all government entities.
Oh, no you cannot. As of now, a "marriage" and a "legal agreement" are the same thing.
I did not know that. Is it a state or federal law? Sure things get complicated from a legal perspective if you have joint assets, children, or claims of improprieties, but minus all that, anyone should be able to file for divorce because of incompatibility. You can't write emotional compatibility into a contract.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Speaking for myself, I'm blocking you. With any luck, you'll grow to understand that all people are relatively similar in that everyone wants what is best for us as individuals and there is no such thing as a "one size fits all" philosophy. Even within religions there are large areas of disagreement.
This is the only forum I know of where someone will block you while attempting to get in the last word. So much for debate.
What you are taking about is technology which by the way is the only way gays can procreate. So if you want we can agree they are both perversions of nature. Your words not mine.
Procreation is not the goal of marriage, so what is your point.
The dictionary definition in Myrian-Webster of sexual perversion : sexual behavior that people think is not normal or natural
You notice these things in this definition :
- Normality :
- Normality/abnormality is mostly a statistical term with no value judgement attached to it
(though people can do some who do so afterwards according to their own bias/point of view)
- A genius and olympic athlete, a mother of 18 are abnormal.
- Natural
- Plenty of proof of homosexuality in nature.
- The body has nerves for pleasure there, hard to argue against this reality
- Normal and natural
- Most Sodomy is done by heterosexual couples
- Most sex is not done for procreation, but pleasure
- What people think
- So, it is a value judgement, what one person, a group of person believes.
- So, by that measure, for the whole of the US, gay sex is not seen as a perversion right now...
The precept against homosexuality come mostly from the old testament; used as such by Jewish faith, Christianism and Islam.
Unless you want to live in a theocracy, the views of those religions are irrelevant.
Strangely enough, nothing is said about lesbianism in those texts (very little about homosexuality either); so I guess it is ok for a lesbian to have sex and marry ;-).
Oh, please cry me a god damn river. You don't a clue what persecution is!
Getting beat up in the street, or not having a job, because someone doesn't like the way you look, walk or talk... That's persecution.
You probably think christian white men are persecuted right now in the US...
Lets see, replace homosexual by black and you have the 1950s segregation arguments. Please Google this before replying again.
Marriage is a civil contract, mostly having to do with property, religion has nothing to do with it. The religious ceremony is totally separate.
Homosexuality exists in nature, so how can it be against nature. Are animals immoral?
Or maybe you don't think we come from animals... Well, then I can't help you at all.
I could go on about your blatant ignorance for quite a bit, but there is probably no point to it.
I'm not saying it's okay to discriminate just because a person is homosexual. This issue is specifically about marriage. I know you don't believe in or have any respect for God (though you should!), but millions do.
And these millions understand He created us as the highest form of His creation (so we are extremely valued and valuable), and He made us man and woman and tells us (many times) that we were made for one another. He also called homosexuality a perversion and an abomination that are actions a person can take. But God is clear that we can repent of these things and be forgiven.
So, millions have this belief and respect for God and it is more important for us to obey His will rather than what society dictates when it's dictates are in direct opposition against God's character and creation (specifically in relation to homosexual marriage).
We will NOT support or promote homosexual marriage – and many are willing to stand firm on this even if you or the government take everything from us (our businesses, our homes, our lives).
If there are any Christ followers out there on this forum, people need to know this is wrong (homosexual marriage). The truth of God is offensive and foolish to those who are perishing but that doesn't mean we stay silent!
I'm not saying it's okay to discriminate just because a person is homosexual. This issue is specifically about marriage. I know you don't believe in or have any respect for God (though you should!), but millions do.
And these millions understand He created us as the highest form of His creation (so we are extremely valued and valuable), and He made us man and woman and tells us (many times) that we were made for one another. He also called homosexuality a perversion and an abomination that are actions a person can take. But God is clear that we can repent of these things and be forgiven.
So, millions have this belief and respect for God and it is more important for us to obey His will rather than what society dictates when it's dictates are in direct opposition against God's character and creation (specifically in relation to homosexual marriage).
We will NOT support or promote homosexual marriage – and many are willing to stand firm on this even if you or the government take everything from us (our businesses, our homes, our lives).
If there are any Christ followers out there on this forum, people need to know this is wrong (homosexual marriage). The truth of God is offensive and foolish to those who are perishing but that doesn't mean we stay silent!
Are you of the belief that your religion is the only "true" religion? Anyone who claims to have a hotline straight to a deity, I turn in the other direction and run while clutching my wallet.
Are you of the belief that your religion is the only "true" religion? Anyone who claims to have a hotline straight to a deity, I turn in the other direction and run while clutching my wallet.
I'd be right behind you but no matter which way you turn there is a religion blocking enlightenment.
Comments
Law of nature?
Can you show that law? Any proof that it exists or is it a figment of your imagination?
Sure I already proved that. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Try and make that change. Two males or two females can to procreate. Let me know how attempting to change either of those works out for you. Hence laws of nature.
While I agree with the religious comment, marriage is a little different than a straight forward business contract. A prenuptial is a contract but a marriage is a ceremony expressing mutual commitment. The only reason for a license is, 1. to confirm you are old enough, of sound mind, and 2. that you are not already married. That, and you will be married by someone licensed to perform the marriage (not always true though). And to also pay a fee to get the license.
Other than that I don't think the government should be involved in deciding who you can marry and they certainly should not be providing financial/social advantages to married couples other than you can inherit all of your spouse's assets without tax.
I said nothing about a marriage license. Contract law covers all legal aspects of a union between people. If a person wants a prenup or a ceremonial marriage certificate from the person or religious institution providing the marriage service, that's another matter.
What if the couple doesn't want to have children? Should we ban them from marrying? You know there are several married couples who made a choice not to have children?
For someone in spite of my best efforts you keep bringing marriage back up. I have no issue with gay marriage. We all know gays wanting the right to marry has nothing to do with love, having children or anything other then state and federal benefits. Back to having children it's simply my counter argument that being gay is natural. It isn't because if everyone was gay we would no longer exist.
Gay couples have every right to equal protection under the law, however that is very different then being gay is just as natural as not being gay. It isn't.
If something is wrong because it's against the laws of nature, you'd better shut down your computer quick. Talking to strangers on the other side of the world is a perversion of nature.
Indeed. The Internet is the devil's work. ????
Sure I already proved that. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Try and make that change. Two males or two females can to procreate. Let me know how attempting to change either of those works out for you. Hence laws of nature.
You're using words, but not making any actual statements. How does same sex marriage change anything about how procreation works? You do realize that herero couples in Alabama can still make babies if Alabama suddenly stops acting like Alabama, right?
If something is wrong because it's against the laws of nature, you'd better shut down your computer quick. Talking to strangers on the other side of the world is a perversion of nature.
What you are taking about is technology which by the way is the only way gays can procreate. So if you want we can agree they are both perversions of nature. Your words not mine.
What you are taking about is technology which by the way is the only way gays can procreate. So if you want we can agree they are both perversions of nature. Your words not mine.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Speaking for myself, I'm blocking you. With any luck, you'll grow to understand that all people are relatively similar in that everyone wants what is best for us as individuals and there is no such thing as a "one size fits all" philosophy. Even within religions there are large areas of disagreement.
This says a lot about the mentality of the liberal "progressive". If I believe homosexual behavior is not only wrong but an offense against even the basic laws of nature, I'm labeled a conservative wacko.
This is the beginning of major persecution against anyone who disagrees with the liberal progressive. It's NOT a step forward but a major step backward when good people are fined hundreds of thousands of dollars or even put in jail for politely standing by their religious convictions – not hurting ANYONE.
This is hypocritical, disturbing, and wicked to destroy indivual and family businesses because they cannot, in good conscience, support homosexual marriage. Families have already lost their businesses because friends and neighbors have not respected their religious convictions but rather have taken them to court! Selfish and wicked.
But what value does my voice have? None, because I'm labeled a "wacko"!
Oh, please cry me a god damn river. You don't a clue what persecution is!
Getting beat up in the street, or not having a job, because someone doesn't like the way you look, walk or talk... That's persecution.
You probably think christian white men are persecuted right now in the US...
Lets see, replace homosexual by black and you have the 1950s segregation arguments. Please Google this before replying again.
Marriage is a civil contract, mostly having to do with property, religion has nothing to do with it. The religious ceremony is totally separate.
Homosexuality exists in nature, so how can it be against nature. Are animals immoral?
Or maybe you don't think we come from animals... Well, then I can't help you at all.
I could go on about your blatant ignorance for quite a bit, but there is probably no point to it.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
The especially annoying bit is trying to pass off the opinion as science. Just makes the ignorance worse.
On the Christian religious side, we have people completely tossing Corporal Works of Mercy to pass judgement on humans who, according to their own beliefs, were made in the image and likeness of God.
...pass judgement on humans who, according to their own beliefs, were made in the image and likeness of God.
That's a fair point. People believe in things because of their own experiences, so I can't condemn someone else completely, even if they choose to condemn someone else. People discover different points of view at different speeds and few people will change their point of view if they believe they are being attacked.
I said nothing about a marriage license. Contract law covers all legal aspects of a union between people. If a person wants a prenup or a ceremonial marriage certificate from the person or religious institution providing the marriage service, that's another matter.
And I am arguing against that. A marriage is not a legal contract. You can walk out on a marriage anytime you want and not be sued for breaking a contract. You can change your mind without any legal repercussions. A prenup is a different matter as that is an actual legal contract.
The other point I was making is to what degree there should be any governmental involvement, since you brought up the subject of government in your original post and you are always going on about the government should stay out of everything.
And I am arguing against that. A marriage is not a legal contract. You can walk out on a marriage anytime you want and not be sued for breaking a contract. You can change your mind without any legal repercussions. A prenup is a different matter as that is an actual legal contract.
The other point I was making is to what degree there should be any governmental involvement, since you brought up the subject of government in your original post and you are always going on about the government should stay out of everything.
Oh, no you cannot. As of now, a "marriage" and a "legal agreement" are the same thing. You may want to argue government involvement in marriage-related matters, especially ceremonial matters, should be removed from the influence of any and all government entities.
Oh, no you cannot. As of now, a "marriage" and a "legal agreement" are the same thing.
I did not know that. Is it a state or federal law? Sure things get complicated from a legal perspective if you have joint assets, children, or claims of improprieties, but minus all that, anyone should be able to file for divorce because of incompatibility. You can't write emotional compatibility into a contract.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Speaking for myself, I'm blocking you. With any luck, you'll grow to understand that all people are relatively similar in that everyone wants what is best for us as individuals and there is no such thing as a "one size fits all" philosophy. Even within religions there are large areas of disagreement.
This is the only forum I know of where someone will block you while attempting to get in the last word. So much for debate.
What you are taking about is technology which by the way is the only way gays can procreate. So if you want we can agree they are both perversions of nature. Your words not mine.
Procreation is not the goal of marriage, so what is your point.
The dictionary definition in Myrian-Webster of sexual perversion : sexual behavior that people think is not normal or natural
You notice these things in this definition :
- Normality :
- Normality/abnormality is mostly a statistical term with no value judgement attached to it
(though people can do some who do so afterwards according to their own bias/point of view)
- A genius and olympic athlete, a mother of 18 are abnormal.
- Natural
- Plenty of proof of homosexuality in nature.
- The body has nerves for pleasure there, hard to argue against this reality
- Normal and natural
- Most Sodomy is done by heterosexual couples
- Most sex is not done for procreation, but pleasure
- What people think
- So, it is a value judgement, what one person, a group of person believes.
- So, by that measure, for the whole of the US, gay sex is not seen as a perversion right now...
The precept against homosexuality come mostly from the old testament; used as such by Jewish faith, Christianism and Islam.
Unless you want to live in a theocracy, the views of those religions are irrelevant.
Strangely enough, nothing is said about lesbianism in those texts (very little about homosexuality either); so I guess it is ok for a lesbian to have sex and marry ;-).
I'm not saying it's okay to discriminate just because a person is homosexual. This issue is specifically about marriage. I know you don't believe in or have any respect for God (though you should!), but millions do.
And these millions understand He created us as the highest form of His creation (so we are extremely valued and valuable), and He made us man and woman and tells us (many times) that we were made for one another. He also called homosexuality a perversion and an abomination that are actions a person can take. But God is clear that we can repent of these things and be forgiven.
So, millions have this belief and respect for God and it is more important for us to obey His will rather than what society dictates when it's dictates are in direct opposition against God's character and creation (specifically in relation to homosexual marriage).
We will NOT support or promote homosexual marriage – and many are willing to stand firm on this even if you or the government take everything from us (our businesses, our homes, our lives).
If there are any Christ followers out there on this forum, people need to know this is wrong (homosexual marriage). The truth of God is offensive and foolish to those who are perishing but that doesn't mean we stay silent!
I'm not saying it's okay to discriminate just because a person is homosexual. This issue is specifically about marriage. I know you don't believe in or have any respect for God (though you should!), but millions do.
And these millions understand He created us as the highest form of His creation (so we are extremely valued and valuable), and He made us man and woman and tells us (many times) that we were made for one another. He also called homosexuality a perversion and an abomination that are actions a person can take. But God is clear that we can repent of these things and be forgiven.
So, millions have this belief and respect for God and it is more important for us to obey His will rather than what society dictates when it's dictates are in direct opposition against God's character and creation (specifically in relation to homosexual marriage).
We will NOT support or promote homosexual marriage – and many are willing to stand firm on this even if you or the government take everything from us (our businesses, our homes, our lives).
If there are any Christ followers out there on this forum, people need to know this is wrong (homosexual marriage). The truth of God is offensive and foolish to those who are perishing but that doesn't mean we stay silent!
Are you of the belief that your religion is the only "true" religion? Anyone who claims to have a hotline straight to a deity, I turn in the other direction and run while clutching my wallet.
Are you of the belief that your religion is the only "true" religion? Anyone who claims to have a hotline straight to a deity, I turn in the other direction and run while clutching my wallet.
I'd be right behind you but no matter which way you turn there is a religion blocking enlightenment.
I await the comments of our resident liberal wacko's... Oh wait...