Would it have been such a bother to include the laptop-saving MagSafe connector AND a USB port? Would it really have made it so ridiculously thick? Is it really necessary to go thinner than a MacBook Air?
Sorry, but I hate dongles, I use both USB connectors on my MacBook. The MagSafe connector has saved my Mac dozens of times. Now, that I think about it, I use EVERY connector on my MacBook surprisingly often.
This new MacBook must certainly not be for people like me, except I can't think of a single person I know it could be for, that wouldn't be better served by a MacBook Air or a MacBook Pro or an iPad for that matter. Ok, I guess iPad users would be well served by something this light and powerful that's a real Mac. I just hope this isn't representative of the future of Apple in terms of laptops and usable ports (Please, MagSafe... MAGSAFE!)
Please Apple, stop removing stuff for the sake of removal (and Ive's OCD when it comes to thinness and ports) without thinking of usability and practicality. Thank you.
Just pondering...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBH
Truly amazing isn't it, how they got to be the most successful company on earth without thinking stuff through, isn't it? Maybe they need you on their design team.
Yeah it's surprising isn't it. That's EXACTLY what I thought, and thanks, they probably do need someone like me on their design team.
But seriously, sarcasm is so unnecessary and so unbecoming, especially irrelevant sarcasm, but hey, I'm sorry that you're so affected by the fact that I don't like dongles and would prefer to have one of those amazing technologies that made them the most successful company on Earth, like MagSafe. In fact, I would like to have every amazing technology that made them so successful. Firewire comes to mind, which they killed off even though it was way better than USB (as anyone who's used it in music production can attest to). Thunderbolt would have been nice to have as well on this machine, although I would have been happy with MagSafe and a USB port. I don't think that was asking too much from the most successful company on Earth.
I don't mind the killing off of technology for something better or because it's truly unnecessary (DVD comes to mind), but removing all ports, including the super practical MagSafe for something that requires a dongle to use any external peripheral is not practical IMHO. Perhaps you enjoy carrying around dongles. I don't. I obviously think it's absurd. You obviously don't. I think removing everything to achieve "thinner" for thinner's sake is stupid. You don't.
We can agree to disagree on our opinions, but as someone who has owned and used most every Apple product ever put out, and been an Apple evangelist since the 80s, I think I have a right to mine.
OK - got it, a grouchy morning dwindles into a finely grouchy afternoon... I do understand that it was DESIGNED around WIRELESS. However, it is a full fledged computer and with its size and capabilities it is also meant to be a light presentation machine - i.e. connectivity (in an aesthetically pleasing way) is essential. We already have couple of Airs - but we miss a nice retina on them. The MBP is definitely heavier to shlep around for a day. Frankly, I don't understand what makes you such an expert on design and its intent, capitalized or not. On the other hand, we do design for a living as mentioned and - as a professional - I can assure you, that having at least one additional port will not harm appearance, or price point, or weight; it will only enhance function and will result in greater usability and wider user base... Dude... :smokey:
Well as a designer I'd say you are unqualified to comment whether more ports would impact weight or price. Nor can you comment professionally on usability or user base.
Most designer operate as if physics didn't apply to them. This is one reason the Apple is so successful. Their designers are far more multi-disciplinary than most and far better understanding of material science and engineering.
In any case, a single cable that provides both power and data is far superior to two cables in terms of day to day ease of use and asthetics in my opinion.
As for presentations, if the dongle bothers you that much use wifi and an appleTV but frankly dongles are required today because many sites still sport only dvi and rgb connections to their projectors.
Well as a designer I'd say you are unqualified to comment whether more ports would impact weight or price. Nor can you comment professionally on usability or user base.
Most designer operate as if physics didn't apply to them. This is one reason the Apple is so successful. Their designers are far more multi-disciplinary than most and far better understanding of material science and engineering.
In any case, a single cable that provides both power and data is far superior to two cables in terms of day to day ease of use and asthetics in my opinion.
As for presentations, if the dongle bothers you that much use wifi and an appleTV but frankly dongles are required today because many sites still sport only dvi and rgb connections to their projectors.
You're addressing Rem Koolhaas. Famous Dutch architect. I think he knows a little bit about design.
Here, folks is how Apple makes insane amounts of money. They keep making things smaller to save money on material and production costs. Hey! It’s a better product for the same amount of money they have always been charging – but now you have to buy all of the external devices that used to be included. Adapters, cables, hard drives. Now you bought a MacBook that costs practically the same as 7 years ago, but now you’ve had to pay 25% more in accessories.
You're addressing Rem Koolhaas. Famous Dutch architect. I think he knows a little bit about design.
And nothing professionally about CE, the actual impact of adding a port to board footprint, the usability of computers or the CE market and user base.
The statement that adding a port "will not harm .... price point, or weight" is a false statement that defies physics.
That "it will only enhance function" and that it "will result in greater usability" is very debatable vs a separate magsafe power port and usb-c because a single port that provides both power and data has been a goal to reduce wire count to portable devices because attaching multiple wires on a daily basis is annoying to users. It is also highly dependent on use case and he has no clue what use cases apple designers have optimized for.
The assertion it would result in a "wider user base" is completely unsupported and nothing a renouwned architect does gives them any professional insight on CE market share. Not to mention that Apple does not generally design toward the widest user base anyway.
Expertise in one domain does not convey magical expertise in others. In the case of CE desgin, which in this case includes BOM cost, electronic board footprint and total device weight, he's no more than a layperson unless he has professionally been involved in the design and development of a CE device. From a device asthetic design perspective he can professionally comment because he does have the formal education and professional experience to do so.
So to parrot his own comment, what makes him any sort of expert on CE design? Who is he to criticize Jony on CE design any more than Jony to criticize him on architectural design at a professional level? They did hire architects for the design of the new campus and while it is without doubt that Ives has massive input I'm pretty damn certain that HE is not so arrogant to declare that adding an extra door somewhere would not impact building cost or design. If for no other reason because that would be an false statement.
Since you're being more than a bit of a prat I'll dissect this further. First, any competent designer with understanding of physical properties would understand that the magnet has to resist both shearing and pulling forces. The difference between sheer and tensile strength should already be ingrained in the mind of every architect. The force required to break magnetic adhesion from a pulling force is much higher than for a sheer. This is why the magsafe has a ridge increasing frictional resistance and eliminating the completely parallel sheer vector and why most folks remove it not by directly yanking on the connection as would often occur when someone trips over the cord but by tilting the connector and applying force on a less vertical vector and using the mechanical advantage of the connector design. Both the sheer and mechanical advantage play a part in determining the amount of undesired disconnects of a MagSafe connector.
If you "appropriately" reduce the magnetic strength of the connector to account for the much lighter weight of the MBA and new MacBook facing undesired pulling force (aka yanking) you also reduce the sheering force resistance of the MagSafe connector. Since magnetic adhesion drops off from vertical rapidly you end up with far more undesired detaches than already occurs with the current MagSafe. Apple has tried to address this with connector design (like the t design of original and current vs the L design of the 2nd iteration) but most folks have experienced their MagSafe popping off when the cable is accidently lifted or pushed at an angle with far less force than would be needed to shift the laptop in any undesired way. This is an undesired disconnect that the MagSafe designers attempt to minimze.
Given that Apple is meticulous in testing design constraints it is a relatively safe assertion that Apple has tried to vary magnetic strength to achieve both sufficient strength to resist accidental disconnects as well as sufficient release to keep the much lighter MBA class machines from releasing too late and determined that MagSafe has reduced value for iPhones, iPads and ultraportables. Sufficiently that lightning and usb-c friction and mechanical based connections are better connectors for lightweight products over magnetic connectors during the design trade.
Since you have not done the empirical experiments (and presumably Apple has) to determine if an "appropriate" strength is possible at all you're simply talking out of your ass and attempting to browbeat others on the basis of your reputation if you are indeed the famous architect and not someone else.
One has to admit Apple is pretty successful, right? I'm pretty sure they have done more research that you can imagine and have come to the conclusion that there is a market for a notebook without all the ports. I'll bet they are correct.
You guys complaining because it doesn't have this port or that port are missing the point. YOU are not the target of this computer. If it doesn't meet your needs, move on; buy something else.
And, I'm not have a particularly "grouchy" morning. It just gets a bit tedious to see all the "experts" complaining how they got "it" wrong, because it doesn't have their favorite port as a direct plug-in. Geez.
One has to admit Apple is pretty successful, right? I'm pretty sure they have done more research that you can imagine and have come to the conclusion that there is a market for a notebook without all the ports. I'll bet they are correct.
You guys complaining because it doesn't have this port or that port are missing the point. YOU are not the target of this computer. If it doesn't meet your needs, move on; buy something else.
And, I'm not have a particularly "grouchy" morning. It just gets a bit tedious to see all the "experts" complaining how they got "it" wrong, because it doesn't have their favorite port as a direct plug-in. Geez.
What's more amusing is that folks are acting as if this isn't something that Apple doesn't regularly do in their designs and somehow it's going to lead to poor acceptance.
Yes, the new MB is meant as an ultra-portable and yes, normal daily functioning is greatly hampered by the single port.
Except it’s not. Go buy a different laptop in Apple’s lineup. The MacBook isn’t designed for this use. “The Mac Mini is hampered by its lack of workstation processors and graphics cards,” is a sentence that no one who cares about fact or reason would say.
The dongle is an odd, unattractive and unnecessarily forced appendage to a rather sleek retina laptop.
So don’t buy it or the laptop for which it’s designed that doesn’t require it. There; it’s no longer forced.
An additional port and an appropriately calculated MagSafe would not brake that bank or hurt the design…
No argument there, but to suggest that it’s not a usable device is nonsense.
Originally Posted by staticx57
They also list it as USB 3.1 Gen 1 and only supporting USB 3.0 speeds (not 3.1) so this Macbook won't support 5k, but future Macs will/might.
There are only two things I don’t like about the way Apple handles its hardware.
1. An increasing lack of post-purchase expansion possibilities.
2. Releasing products simultaneously with different capabilities.
To clarify on the second, I don’t mean that I’m upset about the differences in specs between a MacBook and MacBook Pro (or Mac Pro, etc.), but rather that an iMac might support Thunderbolt 2 and a Mac Pro that comes out on the same day supports Thunderbolt 3. I don’t like it when machines of the same age can’t be used in the same hardware environment. Something only getting 802.11n while other products already have ac; something only getting Bluetooth 2.1 when 4.0 is already in use, etc.
To be fair (as well as reassuring, hopefully) to the critics, the original 13" MacBook Air only had a single USB 2 port, mini-DVI (remember that?) as well as the headphone and MagSafe. Current 13" MBA has the same MagSafe and headphone port, plus 2 x USB 3, an SDXC slot and Thunderbolt 2, not to mention the improved wireless. Apple have a habit of scaling back then building back up and improving. I'm pretty sure the new MacBook will have significantly more I/O capability by the next version, and increasingly more subsequently; the v1 is a stake in the ground for the early adopters that can cope with the fewer ports.
Comments
Would it have been such a bother to include the laptop-saving MagSafe connector AND a USB port? Would it really have made it so ridiculously thick? Is it really necessary to go thinner than a MacBook Air?
Sorry, but I hate dongles, I use both USB connectors on my MacBook. The MagSafe connector has saved my Mac dozens of times. Now, that I think about it, I use EVERY connector on my MacBook surprisingly often.
This new MacBook must certainly not be for people like me, except I can't think of a single person I know it could be for, that wouldn't be better served by a MacBook Air or a MacBook Pro or an iPad for that matter. Ok, I guess iPad users would be well served by something this light and powerful that's a real Mac. I just hope this isn't representative of the future of Apple in terms of laptops and usable ports (Please, MagSafe... MAGSAFE!)
Please Apple, stop removing stuff for the sake of removal (and Ive's OCD when it comes to thinness and ports) without thinking of usability and practicality. Thank you.
Just pondering...
Quote:
Truly amazing isn't it, how they got to be the most successful company on earth without thinking stuff through, isn't it? Maybe they need you on their design team.
Yeah it's surprising isn't it. That's EXACTLY what I thought, and thanks, they probably do need someone like me on their design team.
But seriously, sarcasm is so unnecessary and so unbecoming, especially irrelevant sarcasm, but hey, I'm sorry that you're so affected by the fact that I don't like dongles and would prefer to have one of those amazing technologies that made them the most successful company on Earth, like MagSafe. In fact, I would like to have every amazing technology that made them so successful. Firewire comes to mind, which they killed off even though it was way better than USB (as anyone who's used it in music production can attest to). Thunderbolt would have been nice to have as well on this machine, although I would have been happy with MagSafe and a USB port. I don't think that was asking too much from the most successful company on Earth.
I don't mind the killing off of technology for something better or because it's truly unnecessary (DVD comes to mind), but removing all ports, including the super practical MagSafe for something that requires a dongle to use any external peripheral is not practical IMHO. Perhaps you enjoy carrying around dongles. I don't. I obviously think it's absurd. You obviously don't. I think removing everything to achieve "thinner" for thinner's sake is stupid. You don't.
We can agree to disagree on our opinions, but as someone who has owned and used most every Apple product ever put out, and been an Apple evangelist since the 80s, I think I have a right to mine.
Thanks again and as always,
Just pondering...
Usb-c, as mentioned by someone else above, supports display port since 2014. You probably don't even dongle but the right kind of cable.
http://www.vesa.org/news/vesa-brings-displayport-to-new-usb-type-c-connector/
Folks need to chill out over imagined shortcoming. Even the processor is decent with performance between an i3 and i5 which is what you would expect.
Well as a designer I'd say you are unqualified to comment whether more ports would impact weight or price. Nor can you comment professionally on usability or user base.
Most designer operate as if physics didn't apply to them. This is one reason the Apple is so successful. Their designers are far more multi-disciplinary than most and far better understanding of material science and engineering.
In any case, a single cable that provides both power and data is far superior to two cables in terms of day to day ease of use and asthetics in my opinion.
As for presentations, if the dongle bothers you that much use wifi and an appleTV but frankly dongles are required today because many sites still sport only dvi and rgb connections to their projectors.
Well as a designer I'd say you are unqualified to comment whether more ports would impact weight or price. Nor can you comment professionally on usability or user base.
Most designer operate as if physics didn't apply to them. This is one reason the Apple is so successful. Their designers are far more multi-disciplinary than most and far better understanding of material science and engineering.
In any case, a single cable that provides both power and data is far superior to two cables in terms of day to day ease of use and asthetics in my opinion.
As for presentations, if the dongle bothers you that much use wifi and an appleTV but frankly dongles are required today because many sites still sport only dvi and rgb connections to their projectors.
You're addressing Rem Koolhaas. Famous Dutch architect. I think he knows a little bit about design.
Here, folks is how Apple makes insane amounts of money. They keep making things smaller to save money on material and production costs. Hey! It’s a better product for the same amount of money they have always been charging – but now you have to buy all of the external devices that used to be included. Adapters, cables, hard drives. Now you bought a MacBook that costs practically the same as 7 years ago, but now you’ve had to pay 25% more in accessories.
And nothing professionally about CE, the actual impact of adding a port to board footprint, the usability of computers or the CE market and user base.
The statement that adding a port "will not harm .... price point, or weight" is a false statement that defies physics.
That "it will only enhance function" and that it "will result in greater usability" is very debatable vs a separate magsafe power port and usb-c because a single port that provides both power and data has been a goal to reduce wire count to portable devices because attaching multiple wires on a daily basis is annoying to users. It is also highly dependent on use case and he has no clue what use cases apple designers have optimized for.
The assertion it would result in a "wider user base" is completely unsupported and nothing a renouwned architect does gives them any professional insight on CE market share. Not to mention that Apple does not generally design toward the widest user base anyway.
Expertise in one domain does not convey magical expertise in others. In the case of CE desgin, which in this case includes BOM cost, electronic board footprint and total device weight, he's no more than a layperson unless he has professionally been involved in the design and development of a CE device. From a device asthetic design perspective he can professionally comment because he does have the formal education and professional experience to do so.
So to parrot his own comment, what makes him any sort of expert on CE design? Who is he to criticize Jony on CE design any more than Jony to criticize him on architectural design at a professional level? They did hire architects for the design of the new campus and while it is without doubt that Ives has massive input I'm pretty damn certain that HE is not so arrogant to declare that adding an extra door somewhere would not impact building cost or design. If for no other reason because that would be an false statement.
Since you're being more than a bit of a prat I'll dissect this further. First, any competent designer with understanding of physical properties would understand that the magnet has to resist both shearing and pulling forces. The difference between sheer and tensile strength should already be ingrained in the mind of every architect. The force required to break magnetic adhesion from a pulling force is much higher than for a sheer. This is why the magsafe has a ridge increasing frictional resistance and eliminating the completely parallel sheer vector and why most folks remove it not by directly yanking on the connection as would often occur when someone trips over the cord but by tilting the connector and applying force on a less vertical vector and using the mechanical advantage of the connector design. Both the sheer and mechanical advantage play a part in determining the amount of undesired disconnects of a MagSafe connector.
If you "appropriately" reduce the magnetic strength of the connector to account for the much lighter weight of the MBA and new MacBook facing undesired pulling force (aka yanking) you also reduce the sheering force resistance of the MagSafe connector. Since magnetic adhesion drops off from vertical rapidly you end up with far more undesired detaches than already occurs with the current MagSafe. Apple has tried to address this with connector design (like the t design of original and current vs the L design of the 2nd iteration) but most folks have experienced their MagSafe popping off when the cable is accidently lifted or pushed at an angle with far less force than would be needed to shift the laptop in any undesired way. This is an undesired disconnect that the MagSafe designers attempt to minimze.
Given that Apple is meticulous in testing design constraints it is a relatively safe assertion that Apple has tried to vary magnetic strength to achieve both sufficient strength to resist accidental disconnects as well as sufficient release to keep the much lighter MBA class machines from releasing too late and determined that MagSafe has reduced value for iPhones, iPads and ultraportables. Sufficiently that lightning and usb-c friction and mechanical based connections are better connectors for lightweight products over magnetic connectors during the design trade.
Since you have not done the empirical experiments (and presumably Apple has) to determine if an "appropriate" strength is possible at all you're simply talking out of your ass and attempting to browbeat others on the basis of your reputation if you are indeed the famous architect and not someone else.
Guys,
One has to admit Apple is pretty successful, right? I'm pretty sure they have done more research that you can imagine and have come to the conclusion that there is a market for a notebook without all the ports. I'll bet they are correct.
You guys complaining because it doesn't have this port or that port are missing the point. YOU are not the target of this computer. If it doesn't meet your needs, move on; buy something else.
And, I'm not have a particularly "grouchy" morning. It just gets a bit tedious to see all the "experts" complaining how they got "it" wrong, because it doesn't have their favorite port as a direct plug-in. Geez.
Guys,
One has to admit Apple is pretty successful, right? I'm pretty sure they have done more research that you can imagine and have come to the conclusion that there is a market for a notebook without all the ports. I'll bet they are correct.
You guys complaining because it doesn't have this port or that port are missing the point. YOU are not the target of this computer. If it doesn't meet your needs, move on; buy something else.
And, I'm not have a particularly "grouchy" morning. It just gets a bit tedious to see all the "experts" complaining how they got "it" wrong, because it doesn't have their favorite port as a direct plug-in. Geez.
What's more amusing is that folks are acting as if this isn't something that Apple doesn't regularly do in their designs and somehow it's going to lead to poor acceptance.
Okay, and?
Except it’s not. Go buy a different laptop in Apple’s lineup. The MacBook isn’t designed for this use. “The Mac Mini is hampered by its lack of workstation processors and graphics cards,” is a sentence that no one who cares about fact or reason would say.
So don’t buy it or the laptop for which it’s designed that doesn’t require it. There; it’s no longer forced.
No argument there, but to suggest that it’s not a usable device is nonsense.
There are only two things I don’t like about the way Apple handles its hardware.
1. An increasing lack of post-purchase expansion possibilities.
2. Releasing products simultaneously with different capabilities.
To clarify on the second, I don’t mean that I’m upset about the differences in specs between a MacBook and MacBook Pro (or Mac Pro, etc.), but rather that an iMac might support Thunderbolt 2 and a Mac Pro that comes out on the same day supports Thunderbolt 3. I don’t like it when machines of the same age can’t be used in the same hardware environment. Something only getting 802.11n while other products already have ac; something only getting Bluetooth 2.1 when 4.0 is already in use, etc.
To be fair (as well as reassuring, hopefully) to the critics, the original 13" MacBook Air only had a single USB 2 port, mini-DVI (remember that?) as well as the headphone and MagSafe. Current 13" MBA has the same MagSafe and headphone port, plus 2 x USB 3, an SDXC slot and Thunderbolt 2, not to mention the improved wireless. Apple have a habit of scaling back then building back up and improving. I'm pretty sure the new MacBook will have significantly more I/O capability by the next version, and increasingly more subsequently; the v1 is a stake in the ground for the early adopters that can cope with the fewer ports.
I run Pro Tools(requires dongle) with a keyboard and a backup drive.
I like the design and want something ultra portable and sleek.