This is one of the biggest issue I have with Android making me even try Android/phones. This will never change unless Google just becomes one shop/stop vertical company. Nexus phones are their to address but than other android phone makers make it worse with their own modified UI and functionality and NO regular updates. Take example. I had iphone 4s and bought LG optimus G e970 large 4.7" screen quad processor phone. Goog phone but LG never updated to kitkat or lollipop so I never moved.
So, let's take the metaphor of a leaky dam... you're saying that Google will plug some of the leaks, but "look the other way" for others...? How does this instill confidence for the customer?
It probably doesn't.
Do I personally think they should have sent out at least one more update to the old Webview in Jellybean. Yeah I do, and for PR reasons if no other. With that said I also understand Google's reasoning. In effect they did deliver an update to it: KitKat. If the manufacturer of the smartphone didn't offer that as an update what are the chances they would offer the Webview update by itself? To avoid any future issues the rendering engine has also been decoupled and made available for updates via Google Play Services.
So they're getting there, and to be honest Play Services is an update mechanism that Apple should also consider IMO.
The Android version itself is still supported. Those users still get updates, including security specific ones, via Google Play Services. (Edit: Play Services supports Android Froyo and above, essentially every Google Android phone in use today) What they won't continue to get is any updates to old Webview versions.
Why do you keep posting this crap after I've clearly explained it to you in the past?
Froyo (and up) devices DO NOT get all security updates. Google Play Services is not able to update MOST low level kernel components of Android, which requires Google to patch the source code, put it up for download, and users have to wait until the OEM incorporates the changed code and makes an update available. The last part is where support gets dropped, since OEMs rarely bother to release updates for older devices.
With Lollipop, Google Play Services is NOW able to update practically all of the OS (including low level kernel components). So in about 3 years when most Android users are on Lollipop and above, THEN you can come back and make the claim that Google Play Services is able to issue ALL security patches to devices. Right now MOST Android devices only get high level security updates (like updates to Google's own Apps or other services).
Why do you keep posting this crap after I've clearly explained it to you in the past?
Froyo (and up) devices DO NOT get all security updates.
Because it's true? Even very old Android versions are still supported, including some security enhancements. Yes, there are absolutely features and security enhancements that can't be delivered via Play Services, tho the limitations are getting far fewer. But why do you continue to "write the crap" that Google can't deliver security updates to years-old Android devices via Play Services after I've clearly explained it to you in the past on multiple occasions that they can. :rolleyes: http://www.talkandroid.com/169788-google-quietly-added-extra-security-features-to-all-android-devices-in-google-play-services/
To your credit at least you seem to have listened to me and made an attempt to get your facts more in order on Play Services. This was your most accurate post yet on how Google is using it to mitigate "fragmentation" due to balky licensee's and carriers. Well done sir. What is it they say about old dogs?
How hard is it for the AppleInsider staff to post a link in the article to the source? There are lots of links to other AI articles, but nothing to the actual Apple page where the 77% stat is quoted from. There is even a link to the Android stats.
1000 posts allows you to give yourself a nickname, which will appear under your current username. AI members sometimes use this nickname option to exemplify their personas.
For example: Apple ][ is "Fandroid Killer" and dasanman69 is "Naysayer Extraordinaire"
May I suggest a nickname for you….Mr. Happypants?
Edit: Added an article of clothing to my nickname suggestion…..because it sounded funnier!
Because it's true? Even very old Android versions are still supported, including some security enhancements. Yes, there are absolutely features and security enhancements that can't be delivered via Play Services, tho the limitations are getting far fewer. But why do you continue to "write the crap" that Google can't deliver security updates to years-old Android devices via Play Services after I've clearly explained it to you in the past on multiple occasions that they can. :rolleyes:
To your credit at least you seem to have listened to me and made an attempt to get your facts more in order on Play Services. This was your most accurate post yet on how Google is using it to mitigate "fragmentation" due to balky licensee's and carriers. Well done sir. What is it they say about old dogs?
Except it's not true.
Your original post stated: "The Android version itself is still supported..." This is false. It's Google services and features that sit on TOP of "Android itself" that get support on older devices. Then you follow it up with "including some security enhancements" which is what I've stated for the last couple years. Why do you continue to make a broad statement that's an outright lie, then follow it up with a "correction"? Why not just tell the truth in the first place? And why lie again by claiming I said "can't deliver security updates" when I very clearly defined what Google can and cannot update?
Your original post stated: "The Android version itself is still supported..." This is false. It's Google services and features that sit on TOP of "Android itself" that get support on older devices. Then you follow it up with "including some security enhancements" which is what I've stated for the last couple years. Why do you continue to make a broad statement that's an outright lie, then follow it up with a "correction"? Why not just tell the truth in the first place? And why lie again by claiming I said "can't deliver security updates" when I very clearly defined what Google can and cannot update?
Some things never change.
The problem Eric is that you've used the definer "all updates" to then claim what I wrote was wrong. At no time, ever, have I said ALL security updates and enhancements can be delivered via Google Play Services. But it is an absolute fact, one you've only recently and begrudgingly acknowledged, that security updates/enhancements can and have been delivered for Android versions as old as Froyo using that method. Those users have not been abandoned by Google. From 2013: http://www.talkandroid.com/169788-google-quietly-added-extra-security-features-to-all-android-devices-in-google-play-services/
Name-calling doesn't make you any more correct or incorrect. I'd appreciate a civil discussion rather than a repetitious string of emotionally-charged ad-homs whenever we have an exchange. If you're unable to control yourself then don't bother expecting a direct reply from me as it serves little purpose but to feed your apparent anger.
EDIT: Thank you mods for editing his original post.
No sir they did not stop supporting older Android versions. What a few click-bait articles actually should have reported was that Google wasn't going to continue updating the older Webview that was a part of the Android up until 4.3 Jellybean.
We all know you're a Google fanboy, which begs the question, why the hell do you constantly come to an Apple site professing your bullshit?
My statement, and linked article, are exactly correct... They abandoned a version of Android that contains a critical vulnerability, openly say they won't be fixing it, and instead encourage devs to use a different method. Thus, they put the onus on the devs, and wipe their hands clean of any responsibility they have to fixing this.
Your defence is full of shit, as is Google's products and security.
Actually, your article indicates they did exactly that:
"Google's position is that it isn't practical to integrate security patches from a large open source project as Webkit (hundreds of developers, thousands of commits every month) with a branch that is now two years old (bundled with Jelly Bean)."
Please explain how this does not qualify as "dropping support" for a two-year-old product.
It does indicate they dropped support, and GG is just being his usual Google douchey self.
The Android version itself is still supported. Those users still get updates, including security specific ones, via Google Play Services. (Edit: Play Services supports Android Froyo and above, essentially every Google Android phone in use today) What they won't continue to get is any updates to old Webview versions.
No, that Android build is not being supported anymore, because only the apps are getting updates. The core of the OS is not getting piddly squat in terms of support and fixes anymore.
Because it's true? Even very old Android versions are still supported, including some security enhancements. Yes, there are absolutely features and security enhancements that can't be delivered via Play Services, tho the limitations are getting far fewer. But why do you continue to "write the crap" that Google can't deliver security updates to years-old Android devices via Play Services after I've clearly explained it to you in the past on multiple occasions that they can. :rolleyes: http://www.talkandroid.com/169788-google-quietly-added-extra-security-features-to-all-android-devices-in-google-play-services/
To your credit at least you seem to have listened to me and made an attempt to get your facts more in order on Play Services. This was your most accurate post yet on how Google is using it to mitigate "fragmentation" due to balky licensee's and carriers. Well done sir. What is it they say about old dogs?
Stop trying, you're just digging yourself an even bigger stupidity hole...
Every time an article gets posted here that illustrates a pro-Apple, con-Android statistic, you come in, Android PR guns blazing, trying to make Android look 100x better than the bullshit it actually is. Apple can, on the drop of a hat, patch ANY issue with the OS via their current update implementation.
Can you say the same for Android? No, you fucking can't, because there's in excess of a BILLION fucking shitbox Android devices out there that will NEVER get a single fucking patch or security fix. End of story.
Stop trying, you're just digging yourself an even bigger stupidity hole...
For the love of god, STFU and GTFO.
Can you say the same for Android? No, you fucking can't, because there's in excess of a BILLION fucking shitbox Android devices out there that will NEVER get a single fucking patch or security fix. End of story, now **** off.
Unless you're referring to some 3rd party fork of Android almost every single one of those in use already have.
Unless you're referring to some 3rd party fork of Android almost every single one of those in use already have.
BTW, do you post here (or have you) under another alias? You remind me of someone. . .
Most of those older phones have only received updates to the Google apps, and NOT to the base OS itself! There are more than a BILLION of those shitbox Android phones out there with security issues that have NEVER been fixed, and never will be! Stop trying to make Google look so good.
Stop fucking lying out of your ass like it's the only thing you know how... NO THEY HAVEN'T! Most of those older phones have only received updates to the Google apps, and NOT to the base OS itself! There are more than a BILLION of those shitbox Android phones out there with security issues that have NEVER been fixed, and never will be! Stop trying to make Google look so good, you're making yourself look like a professional Eric and Larry brown noser!
Wouldn't be surprised if you're on their fucking payroll either with how you defend that shit and lie about it.
Jumping and screaming and slinging ad-homs fast as you can won't make you right. It would be smarter to read the links I provided and then comment. But whatever, carry on if you wish.
When you can find a way to engage in a normal and decent conversation between adults I'll be happy to respond to you. Otherwise there's nothing to gain from continuing. IMO you're not adding anything of value at this point, simply egregiously trolling, and I'd rather not play that game.
BTW, do you post here (or have you) under another alias? You remind me of someone. . .
You keep editing your posts, adding additional links you think backs up your claim, but anyone who can comprehend English and can read those understands NONE of those measures still fixes FUNDAMENTAL deficiencies in the Android kernel of the older versions, and essentially doesn't do jack fucking shit for the end-user, even more so, those who own OEM devices, which is the VAST majority of fools stupid enough to get tricked into buying an Android phone in the first place!
You want a REAL fix for the problem? Microsoft (for once) has the answer, convert all those poor Android users to Windows Phone, problem solved!
Jumping and screaming and slinging ad-homs fast as you can won't make you right. It would be smarter to read the links I provided and then comment. But whatever, carry on if you wish. When you can find a way to engage in a normal and decent conversation between adults I'll be happy to respond to you. Otherwise there's nothing to gain from contining. IMO you're not adding anything of value at this point, simple egregiously trolling, and I'd rather not play that game.
ROTFL!!! That's bloody fucking rich, calling me a TROLL? You pathetic idiot... Whose the one coming to an Apple news site promoting Google BULLSHIT about a platform who owes it's entire existence to ripping Apple off? Pot, meet kettle!
The links you've posted have just proven my point that the Android system is so badly mangled beyond recognition, that Google has NO FUCKING WAY to fix it, even for the minority of their user base!
Comments
This is one of the biggest issue I have with Android making me even try Android/phones. This will never change unless Google just becomes one shop/stop vertical company. Nexus phones are their to address but than other android phone makers make it worse with their own modified UI and functionality and NO regular updates. Take example. I had iphone 4s and bought LG optimus G e970 large 4.7" screen quad processor phone. Goog phone but LG never updated to kitkat or lollipop so I never moved.
Do I personally think they should have sent out at least one more update to the old Webview in Jellybean. Yeah I do, and for PR reasons if no other. With that said I also understand Google's reasoning. In effect they did deliver an update to it: KitKat. If the manufacturer of the smartphone didn't offer that as an update what are the chances they would offer the Webview update by itself? To avoid any future issues the rendering engine has also been decoupled and made available for updates via Google Play Services.
So they're getting there, and to be honest Play Services is an update mechanism that Apple should also consider IMO.
Why do you keep posting this crap after I've clearly explained it to you in the past?
Froyo (and up) devices DO NOT get all security updates. Google Play Services is not able to update MOST low level kernel components of Android, which requires Google to patch the source code, put it up for download, and users have to wait until the OEM incorporates the changed code and makes an update available. The last part is where support gets dropped, since OEMs rarely bother to release updates for older devices.
With Lollipop, Google Play Services is NOW able to update practically all of the OS (including low level kernel components). So in about 3 years when most Android users are on Lollipop and above, THEN you can come back and make the claim that Google Play Services is able to issue ALL security patches to devices. Right now MOST Android devices only get high level security updates (like updates to Google's own Apps or other services).
Apple should consider an update mechanism that can't possibly fix all potential problems?
http://www.talkandroid.com/169788-google-quietly-added-extra-security-features-to-all-android-devices-in-google-play-services/
To your credit at least you seem to have listened to me and made an attempt to get your facts more in order on Play Services. This was your most accurate post yet on how Google is using it to mitigate "fragmentation" due to balky licensee's and carriers. Well done sir. What is it they say about old dogs?
If Sunshine wants to be referred as Sunshine then it's no longer an ad hominem.
Not so.
You may refer to me as Mr. Happy, if you so wish.
How hard is it for the AppleInsider staff to post a link in the article to the source? There are lots of links to other AI articles, but nothing to the actual Apple page where the 77% stat is quoted from. There is even a link to the Android stats.
This is ridiculous.
For those curious, here is the source link for the Apple stats -- https://developer.apple.com/support/appstore/
1000 posts allows you to give yourself a nickname, which will appear under your current username. AI members sometimes use this nickname option to exemplify their personas.
For example: Apple ][ is "Fandroid Killer" and dasanman69 is "Naysayer Extraordinaire"
May I suggest a nickname for you….Mr. Happypants?
Edit: Added an article of clothing to my nickname suggestion…..because it sounded funnier!
Not so.
You may refer to me as Mr. Happy, if you so wish.
How about Ed Flakes ??
Except it's not true.
Your original post stated: "The Android version itself is still supported..." This is false. It's Google services and features that sit on TOP of "Android itself" that get support on older devices. Then you follow it up with "including some security enhancements" which is what I've stated for the last couple years. Why do you continue to make a broad statement that's an outright lie, then follow it up with a "correction"? Why not just tell the truth in the first place? And why lie again by claiming I said "can't deliver security updates" when I very clearly defined what Google can and cannot update?
Some things never change.
Not so.
You may refer to me as Mr. Happy, if you so wish.
Mr. Happypants. It flows off the tongue better.
http://www.talkandroid.com/169788-google-quietly-added-extra-security-features-to-all-android-devices-in-google-play-services/
Name-calling doesn't make you any more correct or incorrect. I'd appreciate a civil discussion rather than a repetitious string of emotionally-charged ad-homs whenever we have an exchange. If you're unable to control yourself then don't bother expecting a direct reply from me as it serves little purpose but to feed your apparent anger.
EDIT: Thank you mods for editing his original post.
We all know you're a Google fanboy, which begs the question, why the hell do you constantly come to an Apple site professing your bullshit?
My statement, and linked article, are exactly correct... They abandoned a version of Android that contains a critical vulnerability, openly say they won't be fixing it, and instead encourage devs to use a different method. Thus, they put the onus on the devs, and wipe their hands clean of any responsibility they have to fixing this.
Your defence is full of shit, as is Google's products and security.
It does indicate they dropped support, and GG is just being his usual Google douchey self.
No, that Android build is not being supported anymore, because only the apps are getting updates. The core of the OS is not getting piddly squat in terms of support and fixes anymore.
Stop trying, you're just digging yourself an even bigger stupidity hole...
Every time an article gets posted here that illustrates a pro-Apple, con-Android statistic, you come in, Android PR guns blazing, trying to make Android look 100x better than the bullshit it actually is. Apple can, on the drop of a hat, patch ANY issue with the OS via their current update implementation.
Can you say the same for Android? No, you fucking can't, because there's in excess of a BILLION fucking shitbox Android devices out there that will NEVER get a single fucking patch or security fix. End of story.
2 years ago: http://www.talkandroid.com/169788-google-quietly-added-extra-security-features-to-all-android-devices-in-google-play-services/
From last year: http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2014/06/google-play-services-delivers-security.html
and here's the latest Play Services device security enhancments. Don't mistake Play Services 5.0 with the latest Android build: http://appfoundry.be/blog/2014/11/18/Google-Play-Services-Dynamic-Security-Provider/
BTW, do you post here (or have you) under another alias? You remind me of someone. . .
Most of those older phones have only received updates to the Google apps, and NOT to the base OS itself! There are more than a BILLION of those shitbox Android phones out there with security issues that have NEVER been fixed, and never will be! Stop trying to make Google look so good.
Jumping and screaming and slinging ad-homs fast as you can won't make you right. It would be smarter to read the links I provided and then comment. But whatever, carry on if you wish.
When you can find a way to engage in a normal and decent conversation between adults I'll be happy to respond to you. Otherwise there's nothing to gain from continuing. IMO you're not adding anything of value at this point, simply egregiously trolling, and I'd rather not play that game.
You keep editing your posts, adding additional links you think backs up your claim, but anyone who can comprehend English and can read those understands NONE of those measures still fixes FUNDAMENTAL deficiencies in the Android kernel of the older versions, and essentially doesn't do jack fucking shit for the end-user, even more so, those who own OEM devices, which is the VAST majority of fools stupid enough to get tricked into buying an Android phone in the first place!
You want a REAL fix for the problem? Microsoft (for once) has the answer, convert all those poor Android users to Windows Phone, problem solved!
The links you've posted have just proven my point that the Android system is so badly mangled beyond recognition, that Google has NO FUCKING WAY to fix it, even for the minority of their user base!