Google News buries news of Google's FTC investigation under Daniel Lyons fluff [updated with respons

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  • Reply 41 of 152
    singularitysingularity Posts: 1,328member
    Reading this rantathon I get the impression that Daniel doesn't like Lyons... oh and Google may have done something not nice I'm not too sure.

    Instead of your pointless 'impression,' could you tell us whether DED is factually incorrect in any of the information he presents?
    Google news and it's second on the list.. great hiding! (Though he may have been correct at the time of writing as I wasn't looking at Google news when he was scribbling away).

    As for Google play barely breaking even? Really? It's not as profitable as the App store but barely breaking even?

    This editorial is just an excuse to bash Lyons. When there could be much more made of what Daniel was writing about in the first couple of paragraphs.
  • Reply 42 of 152
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,268moderator
    I'd say there's evidence of them manipulating results that is ongoing. If you Google for:

    "the app store"

    in quotes, which means you are searching for that exact phrase, Google's Play Store is high up in the results. If you check the Play Store page, that phrase doesn't appear anywhere. The Chrome Store is high up too. Microsoft's store and Amazon's appear but further down. If you search for "angry birds", look at whose results come up first. Search for "email", up comes GMail.

    If you search for "the app store" in Bing, the Play Store is nowhere to be seen but the Microsoft Store is high up. This is an anticompetitive business practise.

    http://www.cnet.com/news/google-causes-real-harm-to-consumers-and-to-innovation-ftc-says/
    http://www.fairsearch.org/google-playbook-open-dominate-close/

    It's not easy to avoid, they all want to promote their own services and they know their own ranking algorithms, which they don't let other people know.

    The FTC found they weren't stifling competition, which is reasonable as their competition is doing well but they're still using unfair business practises to give themselves a better standing in the markets they compete in and without that advantage their competitors would be doing even better.
  • Reply 43 of 152
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    As for Google play barely breaking even? Really? It's not as profitable as the App store but barely breaking even?
    Google paid out about $7B to Google Play developers last year. Apple reported to have paid out $10B. Those numbers ain't that far apart.
    http://www.droid-life.com/2015/02/26/google-paid-out-over-7-billion-to-app-and-game-developers-in-2014/
    http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/01/08/apples-app-store-generated-over-10-billion-in-revenue-for-developers-in-record-2014
  • Reply 44 of 152
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    Marvin wrote: »
    I'd say there's evidence of them manipulating results that is ongoing.
    http://www.fairsearch.org/google-playbook-open-dominate-close/
    As well read as you are Marvin I'll pretty certain you know who FairSearch fronts for.

    EDIT: For anyone who doesn't:
    http://www.computerworld.com/article/2496436/technology-law-regulation/microsoft-not-fooling-anyone-by-using-fairsearch-front-in-antitrust-compla.html

    It doesn't necessarily mean they don't have any valid points but you should be aware the aren't "representing the consumer". They're shilling for MS/Nokia/Oracle
  • Reply 45 of 152

    You need to launch "incognito" mode to see the real search result.  Google News re-arrange news items based on your click history.  It is possible DED clicks on Apple related articles more often so Google moved non-Apple news downward.

  • Reply 46 of 152
    gatorguy wrote: »

    What do you think the market share split of iOS to Android is? Is it 80% Android and 15% iOS (like many people think)? Or is it closer to 65% Android and 35% iOS?

    Once you have those numbers then you find out just how much more profitable iOS is given the user base.

    Also interesting that for years Google never really talked about Google Play revenues. I can't even find the numbers for previous years. Maybe you have access to them?
  • Reply 47 of 152
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

     


    I gave it to you. Do your own search and look at the results. There's your evidence.



    "FTC leak Google" or "FTC investigation Google"



    EDIT: So what do you think after looking at the search results sir? I would think you probably did so for yourself by now.



    Only the sound of crickets...

    Apparently, you missed the idiocy of having to search for it to find it, as both GTR and I pointed using the example of your name.

     

    The point is whether it showed up as a 'headline' in news.google.com without one having to search for it. If you couldn't see that obvious point, I am not sure you really understood the article (or our counters to your post).

  • Reply 48 of 152
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

     
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    Google paid out about $7B to Google Play developers last year. Apple reported to have paid out $10B. Those numbers ain't that far apart.

    http://www.droid-life.com/2015/02/26/google-paid-out-over-7-billion-to-app-and-game-developers-in-2014/

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/01/08/apples-app-store-generated-over-10-billion-in-revenue-for-developers-in-record-2014




    What do you think the market share split of iOS to Android is? Is it 80% Android and 15% iOS (like many people think)? Or is it closer to 65% Android and 35% iOS?



    Once you have those numbers then you find out just how much more profitable iOS is given the user base.



    Also interesting that for years Google never really talked about Google Play revenues. I can't even find the numbers for previous years. Maybe you have access to them?

    You can expect the 'sound of crickets'....

  • Reply 49 of 152
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    Apparently, you missed the idiocy of having to search for it to find it, as both GTR and I pointed using the example of your name.

    The point is whether it showed up as a 'headline' in news.google.com without one having to search for it. If you couldn't see that obvious point, I am not sure you really understood the article.

    No idea what the heck you're talking about. How do you get a result if you don't search it? That's what DED did. If you simply are looking for the biggest news today an FTC leaked document even concerning Google would hardly be at the top of the list. Idiocy? Yeah but not from the direction you thought. Do a 180.
  • Reply 50 of 152
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    You can expect the 'sound of crickets'....
    Of course Apple's store is more profitable. Everyone knows that. Does that mean Google Play isn't as DED would havbe us believe?

    If you want to follow the revenue over the years it's easy to find. Just search it with your favorite browser. Here, I'll start it for you:
    2011: http://www.electronista.com/articles/12/11/30/google.play.revenue.up.sharply.apple.generates.4.times.as.much iOS 4 times as much
    2012: http://www.imore.com/app-store-brought-35-times-more-revenue-google-play-2012 3.5 times as much
    2013: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/04/17/app-annie-google-play-app-revenue-grew-90-in-q1-2013-but-apples-app-store-still-saw-2-6-times-more-sales/ 2.6 times as much. Do you see a pattern?
    mid-2014: http://blog.appannie.com/app-annie-index-market-q1-2014/ Now 85% more
    By the end of 2014: http://www.businessinsider.com/google-play-vs-apple-app-store-2015-2 Down to 70%

    So do you think Google Play is unprofitable?
  • Reply 51 of 152
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    Of course Apple's store is more profitable. Everyone knows that. Does that mean Google Play isn't as DED would havbe us believe?

     

    Still waiting for previous years numbers. And the market share numbers.

     

    I'm also curious. Since Google charges the same 30% as Apple, then to pay out $7 billion means they would have had to record $23 billion in revenues. Yet nowhere in their financial earnings calls for 2014 did I ever see Google make mention of these billions in revenue. In fact, Google Play Store revenues are included in the "other" category, which in itself hasn't even hit $23 billion for all of 2014.

     

    Google had revenues of $66 billion in 2014. If they made $23 billion in revenue from the Google Play Store, then surely it should appear SOMEWHERE in their financial reports.

     

    Something's rotten in the state of Google.

     

    Edited: Made a mistake with my math, explained later.

  • Reply 52 of 152
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    Still waiting for previous years numbers. And the market shares numbers.

    I'm also curious. Since Google charges the same 30% as Apple, then to pay out $7 billion means they would have had to record $23 billion in revenues. Yet nowhere in their financial earnings calls for 2014 did I ever see Google make mention of these billions in revenue. In fact, Google Play Store revenues are included in the "other" category, which in itself hasn't even hit $23 billion for all of 2014.

    Google had revenues of $66 billion in 2014. If they made $23 billion in revenue from the Google Play Store, then surely it should appear SOMEWHERE in their financial reports.

    Something's rotten in the state of Google.
    No you're not...

    See my previous post. I did it for you so you don't continue to have a problem finding them yourself.
  • Reply 53 of 152
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    No idea what the heck you're talking about. 

    Of course you (conveniently) wouldn't.<img class=" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />

  • Reply 54 of 152
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    Still waiting for previous years numbers. And the market share numbers.

    I'm also curious. Since Google charges the same 30% as Apple, then to pay out $7 billion means they would have had to record $23 billion in revenues. Yet nowhere in their financial earnings calls for 2014 did I ever see Google make mention of these billions in revenue. In fact, Google Play Store revenues are included in the "other" category, which in itself hasn't even hit $23 billion for all of 2014.

    Google had revenues of $66 billion in 2014. If they made $23 billion in revenue from the Google Play Store, then surely it should appear SOMEWHERE in their financial reports.

    Something's rotten in the state of Google.
    The obvious answer? Google Play developers make significant money from shared ad revenue.
  • Reply 55 of 152
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

     
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post



    You can expect the 'sound of crickets'....


    Of course Apple's store is more profitable. Everyone knows that. Does that mean Google Play isn't as DED would havbe us believe?



    If you want to follow the revenue over the years it's easy to find. Just search it with your favorite browser. Here, I'll start it for you:

    2011: http://www.electronista.com/articles/12/11/30/google.play.revenue.up.sharply.apple.generates.4.times.as.much iOS 4 times as much

    2012: http://www.imore.com/app-store-brought-35-times-more-revenue-google-play-2012 3.5 times as much

    2013: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/04/17/app-annie-google-play-app-revenue-grew-90-in-q1-2013-but-apples-app-store-still-saw-2-6-times-more-sales/ 2.6 times as much. Do you see a pattern?

    mid-2014: http://blog.appannie.com/app-annie-index-market-q1-2014/ Now 85% more

    By the end of 2014: http://www.businessinsider.com/google-play-vs-apple-app-store-2015-2 Down to 70%



    So do you think Google Play is unprofitable?

    What the heck is an 'App Annie's Index Report' whose data this is based on? Seriously? Is it some type of joke?

     

    His question was whether you can provide (audited, I am guessing) numbers from Google.

     

    More crickets.....

  • Reply 56 of 152
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    Of course you (conveniently) wouldn't.:lol:
    Please explain it then. How do you find articles to read and what makes an article the days' top news?
  • Reply 57 of 152
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post



    Of course you (conveniently) wouldn't.image


    Please explain it then. How do you find articles to read.

    It's all explained. No need to explain it again: if you didn't (conveniently) get it the first time, you're not going to (conveniently) get it this time.

     

    Seriously: why are you such a relentless Google apologist? A lot of people here seem to think it's a bit weird....

     

    Add:

    Here's the link to the Technology News page in news.google.com as of five minutes ago, March 23, 2015 -- all 8 pages of it (in 60% size), hence linked rather than shown here -- for your perusal. Tell me where the news item related to FTC and Google appears? http://bit.ly/1xcYCOh

  • Reply 58 of 152
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    What the heck is an 'App Annie's Index Report' whose data this is based on? Seriously? Is it some type of joke?

    His question was whether you can provide (audited, I am guessing) numbers from Google.

    More crickets.....
    As a developer yourself I'll surprised you don't know who AppAnnie is, where their results come from, or why they can be considered a reliable source of app store data. You should check up on them.
  • Reply 59 of 152
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,233member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    I'd say there's evidence of them manipulating results that is ongoing. If you Google for:



    "the app store"



    in quotes, which means you are searching for that exact phrase, Google's Play Store is high up in the results. If you check the Play Store page, that phrase doesn't appear anywhere. The Chrome Store is high up too. Microsoft's store and Amazon's appear but further down. If you search for "angry birds", look at whose results come up first. Search for "email", up comes GMail.



    If you search for "the app store" in Bing, the Play Store is nowhere to be seen but the Microsoft Store is high up. This is an anticompetitive business practise.



    http://www.cnet.com/news/google-causes-real-harm-to-consumers-and-to-innovation-ftc-says/

    http://www.fairsearch.org/google-playbook-open-dominate-close/



    It's not easy to avoid, they all want to promote their own services and they know their own ranking algorithms, which they don't let other people know.



    The FTC found they weren't stifling competition, which is reasonable as their competition is doing well but they're still using unfair business practises to give themselves a better standing in the markets they compete in and without that advantage their competitors would be doing even better.



    And if you search using DuckDuckGo, theapp-store.com comes up first followed by pages of references to the only official App Store by Apple. I scrolled down and got tired searching for a reference to a different applications store. This is one of the reasons I don't use Google or Bing search. I seem to just get results instead of tailored results. (At least I tell myself I'm getting good results.)

  • Reply 60 of 152
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    It's all explained. No need to explain it again
    Then just point me to your post where you explained it already so you don't have to repeat yourself. Oh wait... you didn't explain it. :\
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