Google News buries news of Google's FTC investigation under Daniel Lyons fluff [updated with respons

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  • Reply 61 of 152
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    rob53 wrote: »

    And if you search using DuckDuckGo, theapp-store.com comes up first followed by pages of references to the only official App Store by Apple. I scrolled down and got tired searching for a reference to a different applications store. This is one of the reasons I don't use Google or Bing search. I seem to just get results instead of tailored results. (At least I tell myself I'm getting good results.)
    It's at the top of the list in both search and sponsored results on Google too. Bing is a different story.
  • Reply 62 of 152
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

     
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post



    It's all explained. No need to explain it again


    Then just point me to your post where you explained it already so you don't have to repeat yourself. Oh wait... you didn't explain it. image

    I provided some help. See the link I posted and take it from there.... 

  • Reply 63 of 152
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    No you're not...



    See my previous post. I did it for you so you don't continue to have a problem finding them yourself.

     

    What I want to know is:

     

    A) Google's own numbers (not rough estimates from outside companies) for previous years.

    B) Proof that Google had $23 billion in App revenues in 2014 yet somehow refused to break it out in their financial statements.

     

    My premise is that Google has paid out $7 billion to developers IN TOTAL up to the end of 2014, not $7 billion in 2014 alone.

  • Reply 64 of 152
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

     


    As a developer yourself I'll surprised you don't know who AppAnnie is....

    That wasn't his question. You don't get to distort what he asked.

  • Reply 65 of 152
    un_plugun_plug Posts: 25member
    "Don't be evil"...Google
  • Reply 66 of 152
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    It's all explained. No need to explain it again: if you didn't (conveniently) get it the first time, you're not going to (conveniently) get it this time.

    Seriously: why are you such a relentless Google apologist? A lot of people here seem to think it's a bit weird....

    Add:
    Here's the link to the Technology News page in news.google.com as of five minutes ago, March 23, 2015 -- all 8 pages of it (in 60% size), hence linked rather than shown here -- for your perusal. Tell me where the news item related to FTC and Google appears? http://bit.ly/1xcYCOh
    For a bunch of smart people here, and there really are a lot, many seem clueless when it comes to "facts" that really aren't and that they choose to to repeat anyway without checking. I'm sure you don't want AI to be known for disinformation and outright FUD rather than reliable factual reporting. At least I would assume that would be your preference, that you can trust what you read.

    By the way do you really expect a five day old story to still be at the top of the tech news today? :\ Now you're just flailing.
  • Reply 67 of 152
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    My premise is that Google has paid out $7 billion to developers IN TOTAL up to the end of 2014, not $7 billion in 2014 alone.
    And you would be incorrect.
    http://android-developers.blogspot.in/2015/02/a-new-way-to-promote-your-app-on-google.html
  • Reply 68 of 152
    mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post





    An assertion of 'most likely' from you unfortunately doesn't cut it. Actual evidence countering what DED said, would.

     

    News of this whole Google scandal FIRST BROKE on the evening of March 19. That was ages ago in the news cycle. As soon as the story hit the internet, it exploded and numerous blogs/news sites fought to cover it. Nearly all of them put Google in a bad light, yet it was still at the top of the Google News feed (Tech Channel) Thursday evening through Friday morning as more and more sites piled on.



    It fell down the ranks and went up the ranks for the rest of the week as newer tech articles came through. THAT is fact.

     

    By the time DED jumped on this story, it was already old news. Sites had covered it and moved on. However, Lyons' piece of course caught DED's attention so he bit. And since Lyons' piece was a "fresh spin" -- a misguided one at that -- it put some new blood into the story, so it started crawling up the page ranks a bit more. And since Lyons' piece was both a "fresh" and a newer piece, it took top billing.

     

    So DED does his piece to takedown both Google and Lyons, and guess what -- it's a new story with an eye-catching title that plays favorable to Google's rank algorithms. So guess what, it for a time takes top billing for this particular topic away from Lyons' piece.



    This is not rocket science. This is how Google News works. That's why I said earlier that the whole premise about Google "burying" negative news is completely wrong.  

  • Reply 69 of 152
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    That wasn't his question. You don't get to distort what he asked.
    Um, wasn't that your question?
  • Reply 70 of 152
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,297member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane View Post



    While Apple for sure is far from being a saint NPO, at least they display some ethics in what they do. Maybe that's why pure capitalism entities bash them more than others?

    I tend to believe that beyond making money Apple really wants to make good products and has a vision to improve lives.



    Reading this article should be no surprise as this is how the fame is usually played. Still, it doesn't fail to make me want to vomit.



    Pity, that every time I try bing or duck duck go their search results are not so great.

     

    I thought that, but I'm now 99% DuckDuckGo use now!!!   It may look like Google finds more, but a lot of it is just repeating the same links and a lot of them are just flat out wrong.  With a bunch of Ads thrown in.   DuckDuckGo almost always finds what I need without all the other crap I'd get from Google.    I can't be Google Free, we use their services at work including my email, but I avoid them as much as I can.

  • Reply 71 of 152
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member

    I'm also curious. Since Google charges the same 30% as Apple, then to pay out $7 billion means they would have had to record $23 billion in revenues
    If you use the same reasoning with Apple's numbers then it would mean the App Store had around $34B in revenues for 2014. Apple's press release said that 2014 app revenues had increased 50%. Apple didn't give a specific revenue number for 2014 but if you look at their financials I don't see where that $34B would be buried. But we do know that for 2013 Apple said their total App Store revenue was approx. $10B. A 50% increase for last year would then be $15B or thereabouts and not $34B, right?

    So do you now have the same doubt about Apple's claim to have paid out $10B to developers last year when presented with the evidence? If I've made some error in my figures please point it out. Otherwise how do you explain the apparent enigma?

    2013 press release: http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2014/01/07App-Store-Sales-Top-10-Billion-in-2013.html
    2014's announcement: http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2015/01/08App-Store-Rings-in-2015-with-New-Records.html
  • Reply 72 of 152
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    "Do no evil unless it benefits us" -Google.
  • Reply 73 of 152
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    d4njvrzf wrote: »
    Google is used to testing in public rather internally because they mainly sell large-scale services, and there's only so much information you can get from testing it just among a handful of employees. How a service like gmail handles a few hundred tech-savvy users doesn't necessarily tell you how it will scale to 10 million users.

    I realize in the internet age and things moving fast you do not have time to test everything, but google hardly test anything they let users tell them what they did wrong, but that is fine since you did not pay for it so you get what exactly you paid for. With that said, google has changed things with gmail and other things which they completely broke and if they simply tested basic functionality they would have seen it was not working. The real issue most people except garbage like this and do not complain about it. I have used android for years and found serious issues with it and share those issue with others and people seem to be okay that is does not work correctly.

    I see things starting to turn, with apples high level or quality and customer focus people are starting to realize it can be better if you are willing to pay a little more for the same things.
  • Reply 74 of 152
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    DED...our version of Dan Lyons.

  • Reply 75 of 152
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    Hmmm....

    If I search "FTC investigation Google" it doesn't look they're hiding results not favorable to Google. image

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

    Well I would hope I was the only result!

    image

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    Most likely he's factually incorrect ....

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    I gave it to you. Do your own search and look ....

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    Google paid out about $7B to Google Play developers ...

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    As well read as you are Marvin I'll pretty certain ....

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    No idea what the heck you're talking about. How do you get a result ....

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    Of course Apple's store is more profitable. Everyone knows that. Does that mean Google Play ...

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    No you're not...

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

    Please explain it then. How do you find articles to read and what makes an article the days' top news?

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    As a developer yourself I'll surprised ....

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    Then just point me to your post ...

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    It's at the top of the list in both search and sponsored results on Google too. Bing is a different story.

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    For a bunch of smart people here, and there really are a lot....

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    And you would be incorrect....

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    Um, wasn't that your question?

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    If you use the same reasoning with Apple's numbers....

    Wow. Hit a nerve, huh? <img class=" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />

     

    Ramble on.... Mr. One-Hand-Clapping....

  • Reply 76 of 152
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

     
    .... yet it was still at the top of the Google News feed (Tech Channel) Thursday evening through Friday morning as more and more sites piled on.



    It fell down the ranks and went up the ranks for the rest of the week as newer tech articles came through. THAT is fact.


    If it is FACT, then I'd like to see evidence of that. (I read Google News regularly, particularly the tech section, and I do not at all recall seeing it in their headlines).

     

    Also, in that case, I'd be happy to take back my support for DED in this article.

  • Reply 77 of 152
    d4njvrzfd4njvrzf Posts: 797member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



    I'd say there's evidence of them manipulating results that is ongoing. If you Google for:



    "the app store"



    in quotes, which means you are searching for that exact phrase, Google's Play Store is high up in the results. If you check the Play Store page, that phrase doesn't appear anywhere. The Chrome Store is high up too. Microsoft's store and Amazon's appear but further down. If you search for "angry birds", look at whose results come up first. Search for "email", up comes GMail.



    If you search for "the app store" in Bing, the Play Store is nowhere to be seen but the Microsoft Store is high up. This is an anticompetitive business practise.



    http://www.cnet.com/news/google-causes-real-harm-to-consumers-and-to-innovation-ftc-says/

    http://www.fairsearch.org/google-playbook-open-dominate-close/



    It's not easy to avoid, they all want to promote their own services and they know their own ranking algorithms, which they don't let other people know.



    The FTC found they weren't stifling competition, which is reasonable as their competition is doing well but they're still using unfair business practises to give themselves a better standing in the markets they compete in and without that advantage their competitors would be doing even better.

    Just tried this. The first three hits for "the app store" (with quotes) are

    1. iTunes

    2. iTunes

    3. store.apple.com

    4. Google Play

    5. Amazon.

    6. Windows.

     

    Seems pretty consistent with the mindshare of those brands.  Omitting the quotes yields a similar ranking. Similarly "email" shows

    1. Microsoft Online Services

    2. Workspace webmail.

    3. Office 365 login.

    4. Wikipedia

    6. Gmail.

     

    The same search without quotes this time yields

    1. Gmail

    2. Workspace webmail.

    3. Yahoo.

    4. Microsoft Online Services.

    5. Office 365 login.

  • Reply 78 of 152
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    Instead of your pointless 'impression

    Hmmm... When I search for 'Gatorguy Appleinsider'

    An assertion of 'most likely' from you unfortunately doesn't cut it.

    Apparently, you missed the idiocy of having to search for it

    You can expect the 'sound of crickets'....

    Of course you (conveniently) wouldn't.:lol:

    What the heck is an 'App Annie's Index Report'

    It's all explained

    That wasn't his question. You don't get to distort what he asked.

    Hit a nerve huh? Ramble on.... Mr. One-Hand-Clapping....

    Ditto. Thanks for being the other hand.
  • Reply 79 of 152
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    Ditto. Thanks for being the other hand.

    At least, I'll gladly -- and honestly -- admit to being an unabashed Apple supporter in an Apple forum.

     

    On the other hand, you?

     

    Do tell us (I am assuming you'll be honest)....

  • Reply 80 of 152
    singularitysingularity Posts: 1,328member
    As of now google news has Apple as the main news articles (in the tech section)
    but if you search for Google the story is still there
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