I'm starting to agree with people here saying Tim should have kept quiet about this. Perhaps it would have been wiser to donate some of is billion dollar net worth to others to take the fight to Indiana and elsewhere. He's going to give away the money anyway. Then he could distance himself one level and just tweet a thumbs up. None of these otherwise rational posters here would have nervous breakdowns and pollute these threads with their their religious zealotry and anger. We AI readers would be spared all the hate since Tim would be seen as just a minor player in the world of politics yet his cause would be advanced by his donations.
I personally have nothing against him speaking out, but these threads are a disaster.
First of all, it worked because he(along with others) put enough pressure to get the law amended. Obviously, if you were all for the law, then you don't like tim speaking out.
Secondly, if he *hadn't* spoken out, he would be strongly getting criticisms from the left/liberals for NOT speaking out as someone who is supposed to be for the gay rights. They would be saying how he is a coward, someone who cares more about corporate profits than what he believes in. You just know one of the headlines would read "Tim Cook remains silent about the Indiana gay discrimination law"
Yeah and people are entitled to call him a hypocrite. Free speech and all. I'll change my opinion when Cook speaks out for gay rights in China and the Middle East. I have a feeling I'll be waiting a long time for that to happen.
it's reasonable for a U.S. citizen to speak out against things going on in the US in hopes to affect change, but is unrealistic to think the same comment from Cook aimed at another country would have a chance for influencing them. Knowing when to pick your battles is an important life lesson.
The idea that Apple stopping sales in a country like China would change how government treated it's people is equally as naive - Apple is selling to the people of these country, not to the people who are in power. What in the world could be achieved in taking that action?
I'm starting to agree with people here saying Tim should have kept quiet about this. Perhaps it would have been wiser to donate some of is billion dollar net worth to others to take the fight to Indiana and elsewhere. He's going to give away the money anyway. Then he could distance himself one level and just tweet a thumbs up. None of these otherwise rational posters here would have nervous breakdowns and pollute these threads with their their religious zealotry and anger. We AI readers would be spared all the hate since Tim would be seen as just a minor player in the world of politics yet his cause would be advanced by his donations.
I personally have nothing against him speaking out, but these threads are a disaster.
I agree to a point, but i anderstand that it is important to fight against what can affect you directly and and so close to home! People call Tim a hypocrite because of china and SA and where ever he does bussines, well he doesnt live there, so he shouldnt worry about it to much. People need to worry about their own country more than what is going on on other countries.
So because something is popular, that makes it right? Okay then...
That, unfortunately is the weakness of democracy. History shows us when the powerful extremists control the narrative, the majority of people often go along. Oft times before, science and knowledge is easily subjugated when the ignorant masses rise up,
did foxnews call hobby lobby a hypocrite because they buy most of their products from china, a country that bans religions, mandate abortions and other mandated birth controls? of cause not. I could go on with all the double standards that come out of the mouth of foxnews but the believers with just make excuses for the behavior.
Yeah and people are entitled to call him a hypocrite. Free speech and all. I'll change my opinion when Cook speaks out for gay rights in China and the Middle East. I have a feeling I'll be waiting a long time for that to happen.
Well, neither did MLK. But, hey, it's only wrong when Tim Cook does it.
No, he really was all bad. Really, really bad. At least in the later years of his presidency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gargravarr
28k people out of 300+ million? Your idea of majority needs some work. Come back in the unlikely event that even 1 million people - 1/3 of a percent - support this pizza shop. Tim's view may not be the majority, but at least he's supporting people, not tearing them down like the owners of that shop.
Right. Because those shop owners are clearly evil, and not the people who drove them to close. All those Yelp reviews are kind and polite.
This whole thing is silly. I'm bisexual, so if you call me a right wing anything, it just exposes you.
It is legal in Indiana and nearly every state to discriminate against gays. It always has been, this law didn't change anything.
That pizzeria isn't run by bigots. She said she was happy to have gay customers come to the restaurant. She said she wasn't going to cater a gay wedding--- because she doesn't cater weddings. Duh.
Tim Cook actually shouldn't have said anything because he was responding to the media lie about the law rather than the actual law.
The truth of the matter is gays and everyone else have a fundamental right to marry-- this is what's know as Freedom of Association.
You know what else is guaranteed by freedom of association? Discrimination. I have the right to not sell to christians if I want, just as a black person has a right not to sell to the KKK.
I do business with everyone and don't discriminate because most people aren't bigots-- and you get the best result from christians by turning the other cheek!
Yet our society is so messed up that nobody even is aware of what this law ACTUALLY says, they're all responding to what the media told them it says.
Did you know that Clinton signed the original version of this law at the federal level? It's only happening in states now because the supreme court rules that the clinton law wasn't sufficient for state laws.
Barack Obama supported this law in Illinois.
Jesus but this whole thing is stupid.
Thank you for the truth bomb. I do believe this law singles out gays and religion. It should be anybody can refuse to serve anybody else for any reason. Gays or religion doesn't even have to be a part of it.
It's the old "until the worst regimes in the world stop [something] why should we?" argument. American exceptionalism is suddenly forgotten, suddenly America is just a follower rather than a leader.
Someone had to be the first to outlaw slavery (and it sure wasn't the USA), someone had to be the first to allow women to vote (ditto); if we'd all waited for everyone else to do those things before doing them ourselves nothing would have changed, ever.
Sure, people can call Cook a hypocrite, but that doesn't make them right, it just makes them idiots.
I'm starting to agree with people here saying Tim should have kept quiet about this. Perhaps it would have been wiser to donate some of is billion dollar net worth to others to take the fight to Indiana and elsewhere. He's going to give away the money anyway. Then he could distance himself one level and just tweet a thumbs up. None of these otherwise rational posters here would have nervous breakdowns and pollute these threads with their their religious zealotry and anger. We AI readers would be spared all the hate since Tim would be seen as just a minor player in the world of politics yet his cause would be advanced by his donations.
I personally have nothing against him speaking out, but these threads are a disaster.
Actually, I find these threads absolutely hilarious.
Plus, they've helped me expand my Block List to include a lot of people who should have been there already.
The pressure from the SVP of Ad Sales was probably the only reason for an apology. This network is a dangerous farce of mindless entertainment and babble conjecture.
For all the liberal HATE of "Faux" News, they sure love talking about them.
Did Tim Cook disparage or discriminate against others because of their beliefs? No, thus he's not a bigot.
Does disagreeing with one law obligate Tim Cook to hold a boycott? No, thus he's not a hypocrite.
Does commenting on the law of one region obligate Tim Cook to comment on other regions? No, thus he's not a hypocrite.
That said, I don't see what the big deal is about someone voicing an opinion that is mildly offensive to some. Why is there always a rush to publicly shame people. It was a silly, and factually wrong, thing to say to make a point, but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. (Edit: Insert what polymnia said about engagement.)
As they say, opinions are like assholes, everyone feels the need to tell everyone else why theirs is the best, oh wait.
No, he really was all bad. Really, really bad. At least in the later years of his presidency.
Right. Because those shop owners are clearly evil, and not the people who drove them to close. All those Yelp reviews are kind and polite.
Good is evil and evil is good...
Of course he was really, really bad. But he wasn't ALL bad. And Apple isn't all good. Neither is the USA or China. Or you or me.
I find declaring 'bad guys' and 'good guys' generally serves to oversimplify and justify behavior that would normally be unacceptable.
China, gays, fracking, Fox News, apple, Benjamin Frost. All have been called bad at one time or another. Maybe some deserve the title more than others. But each one is more complex than a simple good or bad.
Comments
I'm starting to agree with people here saying Tim should have kept quiet about this. Perhaps it would have been wiser to donate some of is billion dollar net worth to others to take the fight to Indiana and elsewhere. He's going to give away the money anyway. Then he could distance himself one level and just tweet a thumbs up. None of these otherwise rational posters here would have nervous breakdowns and pollute these threads with their their religious zealotry and anger. We AI readers would be spared all the hate since Tim would be seen as just a minor player in the world of politics yet his cause would be advanced by his donations.
I personally have nothing against him speaking out, but these threads are a disaster.
First of all, it worked because he(along with others) put enough pressure to get the law amended. Obviously, if you were all for the law, then you don't like tim speaking out.
Secondly, if he *hadn't* spoken out, he would be strongly getting criticisms from the left/liberals for NOT speaking out as someone who is supposed to be for the gay rights. They would be saying how he is a coward, someone who cares more about corporate profits than what he believes in. You just know one of the headlines would read "Tim Cook remains silent about the Indiana gay discrimination law"
The idea that Apple stopping sales in a country like China would change how government treated it's people is equally as naive - Apple is selling to the people of these country, not to the people who are in power. What in the world could be achieved in taking that action?
I agree to a point, but i anderstand that it is important to fight against what can affect you directly and and so close to home! People call Tim a hypocrite because of china and SA and where ever he does bussines, well he doesnt live there, so he shouldnt worry about it to much. People need to worry about their own country more than what is going on on other countries.
I assume you are forgetting the /s
That, unfortunately is the weakness of democracy. History shows us when the powerful extremists control the narrative, the majority of people often go along. Oft times before, science and knowledge is easily subjugated when the ignorant masses rise up,
Well, neither did MLK. But, hey, it's only wrong when Tim Cook does it.
(thanks Richard Nixon, the guy wasn't all bad)
No, he really was all bad. Really, really bad. At least in the later years of his presidency.
28k people out of 300+ million? Your idea of majority needs some work. Come back in the unlikely event that even 1 million people - 1/3 of a percent - support this pizza shop. Tim's view may not be the majority, but at least he's supporting people, not tearing them down like the owners of that shop.
Right. Because those shop owners are clearly evil, and not the people who drove them to close. All those Yelp reviews are kind and polite.
Good is evil and evil is good...
Thank you for the truth bomb. I do believe this law singles out gays and religion. It should be anybody can refuse to serve anybody else for any reason. Gays or religion doesn't even have to be a part of it.
Someone had to be the first to outlaw slavery (and it sure wasn't the USA), someone had to be the first to allow women to vote (ditto); if we'd all waited for everyone else to do those things before doing them ourselves nothing would have changed, ever.
Sure, people can call Cook a hypocrite, but that doesn't make them right, it just makes them idiots.
I'm starting to agree with people here saying Tim should have kept quiet about this. Perhaps it would have been wiser to donate some of is billion dollar net worth to others to take the fight to Indiana and elsewhere. He's going to give away the money anyway. Then he could distance himself one level and just tweet a thumbs up. None of these otherwise rational posters here would have nervous breakdowns and pollute these threads with their their religious zealotry and anger. We AI readers would be spared all the hate since Tim would be seen as just a minor player in the world of politics yet his cause would be advanced by his donations.
I personally have nothing against him speaking out, but these threads are a disaster.
Actually, I find these threads absolutely hilarious.
Plus, they've helped me expand my Block List to include a lot of people who should have been there already.
Hey Tim.
Lets call all out who have issues with the gay community. Don't just pick and choose.
So its okay for bigots to buy your products?
Hey Tim.
Lets call all out who have issues with the gay community. Don't just pick and choose.
So its okay for bigots to buy your products?
Actually, I find these threads absolutely hilarious.
Plus, they've helped me expand my Block List to include a lot of people who should have been there already.
Like a good liberal, just ignore when you can't win the argument.
He's right. No need to apologize. Stupid Fox News.
Its "Faux News"
Get it right!
Did Tim Cook state that Apple would no longer do business with the state of Indiana?
Of course he won't, its money out of his pocket!
The pressure from the SVP of Ad Sales was probably the only reason for an apology. This network is a dangerous farce of mindless entertainment and babble conjecture.
For all the liberal HATE of "Faux" News, they sure love talking about them.
Did Tim Cook disparage or discriminate against others because of their beliefs? No, thus he's not a bigot.
Does disagreeing with one law obligate Tim Cook to hold a boycott? No, thus he's not a hypocrite.
Does commenting on the law of one region obligate Tim Cook to comment on other regions? No, thus he's not a hypocrite.
That said, I don't see what the big deal is about someone voicing an opinion that is mildly offensive to some. Why is there always a rush to publicly shame people. It was a silly, and factually wrong, thing to say to make a point, but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. (Edit: Insert what polymnia said about engagement.)
As they say, opinions are like assholes, everyone feels the need to tell everyone else why theirs is the best, oh wait.
We can just pick and choose then.
Got it!
Since when is 28,000 people a majority? I say *ONLY* 28,000 people that are in support?
How much have gays that have been discriminated against collected?
Of course he was really, really bad. But he wasn't ALL bad. And Apple isn't all good. Neither is the USA or China. Or you or me.
I find declaring 'bad guys' and 'good guys' generally serves to oversimplify and justify behavior that would normally be unacceptable.
China, gays, fracking, Fox News, apple, Benjamin Frost. All have been called bad at one time or another. Maybe some deserve the title more than others. But each one is more complex than a simple good or bad.