Are you a felon or something? Or perhaps somebody in your family is a felon?
I am in good company with Tim Cook and Apple here! We both discriminate against felons!
If you don't like that, well then that's just too damn bad, and there aint a darned thing that you can do about it!
People make mistakes, and should have a chance to become productive members of society after they have paid their debt to society. The inability to find work will most certainly push them back into a life of crime.
People make mistakes, and should have a chance to become productive members of society after they have paid their debt to society. The inability to find work will most certainly push them back into a life of crime.
My point was that having a felony means nothing nowadays. Most criminals aren't felons and innocent people have felonies.
It's easy to get a felony. Why do you think we (United Stated) have the most populated prisons?
Refusing to sell two men a wedding cake is also unusual, but not unprecedented. I would just like for Mr. Cook to be consistent in his views. Either support the right of a business to discriminate against whoever, or ban ALL discrimination for ANY reason.
People make mistakes, and should have a chance to become productive members of society after they have paid their debt to society. The inability to find work will most certainly push them back into a life of crime.
It depends what kind of mistakes, and how many "mistakes" somebody has made.
People make mistakes, and should have a chance to become productive members of society after they have paid their debt to society. The inability to find work will most certainly push them back into a life of crime.
Agreed released felons should be given opportunities, but let's be honest sitting in prison is by no means a way of paying back debts to society when society is paying some $30k a year to house an inmate in prison.
The framing that someone IS a felon is very different than saying someone did something that is designated as a felony.
It's the difference between saying that someone did something bad or that they ARE bad.
Do you want a bad person working on your project? Of course not. Do you want some one who did something bad working on your project? Well that depends. What else do we know about them?
How can you blame Apple? With this being a construction site, I'm sure the probability of theft for things such as copper wire is high. I don't see anything wrong with not wanting to hire convicted felons.
I don't know if _I_ would blame Apple, but the EEOC might. As I understand, blanket bans on employment without individual assessment can be difficult to enforce or open the employer up to legal action. Green v. Missouri Pacific Railroad said that the type of crime, time elapsed, and type of job be considered in an individual assessment rather than blanket rulings.
Agreed released felons should be given opportunities, but let's be honest sitting in prison is by no means a way of paying back debts to society when society is paying some $30k a year to house an inmate in prison.
If one person's life is saved because a felon is behind bars rather than being on the streets then $30k is a bargain.
Does anyone realize how easy it is to get a felony? Like someone above posted, it's too easy. YOU can be a felon tomorrow.
I grew up in a tough neighborhood and the cops there were handing out felonies like candy. J-Walking, traffic stops, suspicion of anything, heck even for just walking. The cops were playing the system like a game. I was almost a felon after a cop put me in handcuffs and continued to beat me at my High School. Luckily I had a good public defender who proved the police were lying, but you guessed it, they weren't tried for their crimes.
Not all felons are criminals and not all
criminals are felons. This should be obvious.
The uneducated bigot strikes back!
Do you know what a felony is? Traffic tickets and misdemeanors aren't felonies.
"The main characteristic of a felony is that being found guilty of a felony will result in incarceration for at least one year. "
Do you know what a felony is? Traffic tickets and misdemeanors aren't felonies.
"The main characteristic of a felony is that being found guilty of a felony will result in incarceration for at least one year. "
Or you could be forced into plea deal by a federal prosecutor out to make his bones, as is so often done. Suddenly a minor drug crime is transformed into a racketeering conspiracy and you will become a felon unless you bring in a bigger fish (never mind if they are really involved.) I have a friend who is a public defender and he sees it all. Lots of "bad" people go to jail, but lots of innocent people do too. The legal system is rife with perverse incentives from elected judges, to for profit prisons, to corrupt bail procedures. Asses like AppleII think the get tough policies they support are intended to keep us safe when in fact they are designed to enrich moneyed business interests at taxpayer expense.
Do you know what a felony is? Traffic tickets and misdemeanors aren't felonies.
"The main characteristic of a felony is that being found guilty of a felony will result in incarceration for at least one year. "
How about the guy in Florida who was hit with a 25 to life sentence as an accessory to murder simply because he lent his car to someone, and that person went, and killed someone?
Being at the wrong place at the wrong time, or simply doing someone a favor can lead to a felony conviction.
I love the manufactured, contrived outrage from this "controversy", and the deserate attempts to define it as some sort of dicriminatory hypocrisy on Cook's part. Like the trash article below, as an example, where the author purposely equates felons and criminals in order to give an exaggerated stat:
Why does the richest company in the world not have a right to filter out felons on the most important construction project in its history- especially when there's a shitload of non-felons who can also use the job?
Being the "richest" in anything does not confer any special rights on anyone or any organization. Your ethical values are reprehensibly deficient.
I happen to think that it is a reasonable, justifiable, proportionate and responsible obligation for a company to take all possible precautions on security (and privacy) relevant projects .. especially but not exclusively with regard to corporate HQs and sensitive R&D facilities. I don't think it at all unreasonable to filter out felons if possible, since one must assume these people are less than 100% trustworthy.
Actually, it's not at all unusual in Germany, where I happen to live, for an employer to request a so-called polizeilichen Führungszeugnis .. which is an attestation from the Police records database that the subject is free from serious convictions. In many cases it is obligatory by law. There are fairly strict rules governing what information can be kept on record for how long, and also on what level of detail may be revealed to parties with a legitimate interest. An example in which I was personally involved related to employees handling narcotic pharmaceuticals for export. ALL levels of employees involved were required to provide the aforementioned Attestation.
Can you say Eric Schmidt, how about Bernie Madoff? They weren't felons, but boy were they the worse. The real crooks wear suits all day, how else could they enrich themselves? The majority of the crooks work in offices, businesses.
Comments
People make mistakes, and should have a chance to become productive members of society after they have paid their debt to society. The inability to find work will most certainly push them back into a life of crime.
Idk am I a felon? Or are you gonna
use assumptions based on my opinion? Like most trolls? Loser.
And there's nothing YOU can do about anything either. Pretty stupid thing to say really.
You must HATE the fact Dre works for Apple also but there's nothing you can do about that either. Awww...
My point was that having a felony means nothing nowadays. Most criminals aren't felons and innocent people have felonies.
It's easy to get a felony. Why do you think we (United Stated) have the most populated prisons?
Lets face it. If you are a convicted felon, you are less likely to honor the NDA they make you sign.
I'm not seeing a problem with this.
AppleII's a moron.
My point was that having a felony means nothing nowadays. Most criminals aren't felons and innocent people have felonies.
It's easy to get a felony. Why do you think we (United Stated) have the most populated prisons?
Stop making excuses for criminals and scumbags, like other uneducated and ignorant lefties and others of your ilk.
Idk am I a felon? Or are you gonna
use assumptions based on my opinion? Like most trolls? Loser.
And there's nothing YOU can do about anything either. Pretty stupid thing to say really.
You must HATE the fact Dre works for Apple also but there's nothing you can do about that either. Awww...
Why don't you go hire an ex felon who is a pedophile to babysit for your children.
I am sure the Chinese intelligence service is not terribly bothered by this.
Refusing to sell two men a wedding cake is also unusual, but not unprecedented. I would just like for Mr. Cook to be consistent in his views. Either support the right of a business to discriminate against whoever, or ban ALL discrimination for ANY reason.
People make mistakes, and should have a chance to become productive members of society after they have paid their debt to society. The inability to find work will most certainly push them back into a life of crime.
It depends what kind of mistakes, and how many "mistakes" somebody has made.
Agreed released felons should be given opportunities, but let's be honest sitting in prison is by no means a way of paying back debts to society when society is paying some $30k a year to house an inmate in prison.
It depends what kind of mistakes, and how many "mistakes" somebody has made.
Isn't Martha Stewart a felon?
It's the difference between saying that someone did something bad or that they ARE bad.
Do you want a bad person working on your project? Of course not. Do you want some one who did something bad working on your project? Well that depends. What else do we know about them?
Yes felony convictions are handed out like flyers in many states, but I wouldn't go as far as saying that they all mean nothing.
Btw the prison population is on the decline forcing prisons to close.
How can you blame Apple? With this being a construction site, I'm sure the probability of theft for things such as copper wire is high. I don't see anything wrong with not wanting to hire convicted felons.
I don't know if _I_ would blame Apple, but the EEOC might. As I understand, blanket bans on employment without individual assessment can be difficult to enforce or open the employer up to legal action. Green v. Missouri Pacific Railroad said that the type of crime, time elapsed, and type of job be considered in an individual assessment rather than blanket rulings.
If one person's life is saved because a felon is behind bars rather than being on the streets then $30k is a bargain.
Do you know what a felony is? Traffic tickets and misdemeanors aren't felonies.
"The main characteristic of a felony is that being found guilty of a felony will result in incarceration for at least one year. "
How about the guy in Florida who was hit with a 25 to life sentence as an accessory to murder simply because he lent his car to someone, and that person went, and killed someone?
Being at the wrong place at the wrong time, or simply doing someone a favor can lead to a felony conviction.
I love the manufactured, contrived outrage from this "controversy", and the deserate attempts to define it as some sort of dicriminatory hypocrisy on Cook's part. Like the trash article below, as an example, where the author purposely equates felons and criminals in order to give an exaggerated stat:
http://pando.com/2015/04/05/as-tim-cook-criticizes-indiana-apple-imposes-labor-discrimination-in-its-own-backyard/
Why does the richest company in the world not have a right to filter out felons on the most important construction project in its history- especially when there's a shitload of non-felons who can also use the job?
Being the "richest" in anything does not confer any special rights on anyone or any organization. Your ethical values are reprehensibly deficient.
I happen to think that it is a reasonable, justifiable, proportionate and responsible obligation for a company to take all possible precautions on security (and privacy) relevant projects .. especially but not exclusively with regard to corporate HQs and sensitive R&D facilities. I don't think it at all unreasonable to filter out felons if possible, since one must assume these people are less than 100% trustworthy.
Actually, it's not at all unusual in Germany, where I happen to live, for an employer to request a so-called polizeilichen Führungszeugnis .. which is an attestation from the Police records database that the subject is free from serious convictions. In many cases it is obligatory by law. There are fairly strict rules governing what information can be kept on record for how long, and also on what level of detail may be revealed to parties with a legitimate interest. An example in which I was personally involved related to employees handling narcotic pharmaceuticals for export. ALL levels of employees involved were required to provide the aforementioned Attestation.
Can you say Eric Schmidt, how about Bernie Madoff? They weren't felons, but boy were they the worse. The real crooks wear suits all day, how else could they enrich themselves? The majority of the crooks work in offices, businesses.