You are delirious. And you think I'm the troll?
You're the one up in my arms about what I wrote which is just a personal statement and affects me and me only.
Why are there always people trolling these forums? FFS. If you have nothing good to say don't say anything.
Nice try. Your statement was extremely trollish. Basically making an announcement that the Watch is not worth half what they are selling it at- and even at half the price you wouldn't buy one. And that Apple made a ridiculous mistake not pricing it at your absurd level, because YOU will not buy one, because you don't have interest in the product anyway. You can't tell how childish that sounds? Why does anyone care if you buy it or not? Why should they value it at the level that people who don't give a shit about the product would be willing to buy it at? Even if the Mac Pro was half the price I would not buy it, because I do not need one- that doesn't mean I believe Apple SHOULD price it that low, or that its not more than worth its value to those that need it or choose to buy it.
All this is your understanding and re-imagining of what I said.
Why do you feel this need to be vocal and criticise my post? I may sound "self-entitled" but you sound self-important.
I did not try to talk anyone out of buying a Watch.
fallenjt wrote: »
Price to be half? You're fcking kidding? POS Gear is already $300 and has 10% features of Apple watch. Beside the short battery life, Apple watch makes the rest of smart watches look like garbages.
mac voyer wrote: »
Excellent! That is one less person I have to elbow out of my way. 9,999,999 to go.
I think that this whole story is misunderstood and misreported.
I don't believe for a second that there is a new paradigm at Apple in which lineups of Apple fans at Apple Stores are generally to be avoided. I think this change in process is specific to the ?Watch itself. Unlike previous Apple devices, this new one is going to cause each person to spend an inordinate amount of time "trying it on" to see what looks best on them. Can you imagine being in a line of 1000 people if each of those people in front of you is taking 15 minutes to sample different models and bands, plus time to agonize over the final choice (even if it is off-in-the-corner somewhere) plus time to "pull the trigger" if sales were possible in-store? That's probably 30-45 minutes from in to out the door, and per fire code only so many people can be in the store at a time. Fairly rapidly, the store reaches 1-out-1-in status. Huge bottleneck. Contrast that with iPhone lines, which move fairly briskly. The vast majority of people in an iPhone line already know exactly which model they want before they show up, and the rest can make up their mind very swiftly after a bit of dialogue with their "guide". I have been in numerous such lines over the years, and each time (except the first, when there were issues with AT&T activation) I was in & out the door in less than 15 minutes TOTAL once I got to the front of the line and allowed into the store.
So I think that in the case of the ?Watch, it is wise to set customer expectations up front (by suggesting online ordering) and to control, or otherwise limit, the length of the lines that appear.
What did I re-imagine? The fact that you said the price should be half of what it is? And that even if it was, you might not buy it anyway? The fact that you think the price of something should be valued at what people with no interest in the product would buy it? You gave no context or justification to your matter-of-fact statement that it should cost half of what it does, besides the fact that you don't want it. Not in terms of market competition, features, COD, nothing.
No, I did not re-imagine anything. "Suprisingly expensive"? $349 starting price for Apple's new product category, which contains a shitload of technology and miniturization, is really THAT expensive? Sounds like you expected them to pretty much give it away, and your own predictions were completely off base if you were surprised, not Apple's pricing.
This is exactly the right way to think about it. During the initial roll-out of a product that has many SKUs, it's smart to manage inventory centrally rather than try to guess how many of each SKU to provide to each Apple store. And from the roll-out period Apple will see patterns of buying for each SKU and so they will have a large amount of data from which to determine the overall, and per location popularity of each SKU. This will make the task of supplying stores post-roll-out easily and more accurate.
Plus, I consider my long history of Apple-line squatting: 4 iPhones and 2 iPads worth of line sitting. Great fun, but only for an Applehead like me.
What I note it this: Every single time that I went to one of the Applefests, I knew exactly what model of device I was after before I even left my house (at oh-dark-thirty) to go to the store. And almost every single time, once I got to the front of the line and was allowed into the store, I obtained my prize, paid and left in a grand total of somewhere between 10 and 15 minutes.
That's not going to happen with ?Watch, folks. When I go in to the store for my appointment, I am going to spend the entire 15 minute hands-on time trying out however many watch/band combinations they will allow me to try. Then, if it were possible to pick up the watch right there in the store, I might spend another 15-30 minutes agonizing over the best choice (unless there was a clear winner amongst the combos I tried out). I realize that I only get 15 minutes of hands-on time with an employee, but they aren't going to kick me out of the store after time is up. Then, finally having made my decision, I would seek out an employee who was unoccupied (may take a while) before completing the purchase, which might take the 10-15 minutes that the iPhone experience had. Total time for me in store might even be close to (perhaps even over) an hour. If there were a huge line at this store, then they would reach occupancy limit fairly quickly (like they always do) so the line settles into 1-in-1-out status. With the iPhone, as I described earlier, the line can move fairly swiftly. With the ?Watch, if devices were available for purchase in-store at first, the line would move unbelievably slowly. Slowly enough, in fact, that even the strange cultish glee I feel when being involved with such a spectacle would likely evaporate long before I got into the store. I would have become a disgruntled Apple customer.
I think it's the right solution for Apple to limit the number of people that show up at the store all at once and to make orders be online, for reasons of both inventory management (as you pointed out) and crowd control.
Apple has launched DOZENS of products and no executive has ever even hinted that this was a strategy.
"You cannot say with certainty that Apple does not employ this practice."
What a crazy statement. I cannot say with certainty that Tim Cook has not murdered a dozen people. Does that make it a responsible thing to say that Tim Cook could have murdered a dozen people? Hell no. There is ZERO proof that Apple artificially lowers supply as a marketing tool. ZERO. ZILTCH. ZIPPO. It is absolutely RIDICULOUS to even state that they do.
I appreciate your passion but I feel you're not thinking clearly.
It's just as ridiculous to say they do not and I can just as easily say that there is no proof that they don't. I'm not trolling, just stating the obvious. If no definitive marketing plan is spoken about or made public, it can go either way, no? You are stating, in an absolute manner, that they don't, but, since nothing is ever said, I feel it's completely plausible that they do. No CEO, in their right mind, is going to share their specific marketing practice(s).
To think they would is just plain silly.
I find it interesting that the VP from Alfa Romeo mentioned Apple specifically, which was during a one-on-one conversation and pretty much off the record. I don't think he felt that some attendee at a car show is going to have the power to blow the whistle on a particular marketing practice. Nonetheless, this is what he told me, which certainly adds some color and credence to the 'planned-constrained-supply-as-a-marketing-ploy' argument.
I personally think that Apple ramps up as much supply as they possibly can given component constraints and manufacturing bottlenecks. The number of moving parts in the Apple supply chain is tremendous, and in spite of the fact that Tim Cook is a supply-chain God, there is always going to be some weakest link that dictates a limit on production. I personally think that Apple aims to make the best product they can at each iteration, then Cook aims to maximize the volume based on the supply chain constraints, and that the maximum is still never enough to meet the demand.
One thing you can notice is this: by now, Apple has an absolutely tremendous following. So tremendous, in fact, that even if a relatively small fraction of them want a specific new device at launch, that's still a huge number and very likely to be larger than the supply can handle.
In other words, while it is possible that Apple could elevate demand some more by artificially constraining supply to give the illusion of high demand, the fact of the matter is that Apple doesn't need to do such a thing, because there already is a high level of demand, and it does already exceed the supply. All of which renders the concept of whether Apple employs these tactics academic. That is, you might convince me that Apple would do so if they needed to, but you won't be able to convince me that they need to. So it's a moot point.
My understanding is that the Apple Watch readily supports music without necessity for an iPhone, but you are probably correct that you would need BLE compatible headphones. This would be a standard paradigm for athletic use with the motion chip; just the bare necessities until you next connect up to a WiFi network or and iPhone.
MacRumors has a writeup just posted on Apple Watch WiFi capabilities sans iPhone. A revelation for me, and beneficial.
You are correct. I'll be interested to see how this is handled in context of large music libraries. I suppose you'll just have to select specific playlists to load onto the watch.
On the 24th, there will be millions on Apple's ?Watch web site.
There will be hundreds' of thousand* ordering an ?Watch without every seeing, let alone trying one on.
There will be ten's of thousand* not caring what is available as long as they can get the earliest delivery.
There will be ten's of thousand* ordering just to make a fast buck.
There will be ten's of thousands* lining up at an Apple store and/or specified retailers hoping to see and trying one for the first time.
There will be hundreds visiting the high end boutiques to view, try and perhaps order and even buy an Edition.
It will make the combined total of firsters' that clamored for the likes of the Pet Rock, Cabbage Patch Doll, Trivia Pursuit and Xbox/Nintendo/Play Station look pale.
And to cope for such, there aren't enough Apple Stores, employees, space or time to satisfy the demand and/or interest. Let alone the inventory to cover the 54 combinations of ?Watch to choose from.
So, if you can't stand the heat, may I suggest getting in your car and drive to work/home during rush hour. Or take out the garbage that you mother has patiently asked you a hundred* or so times before.
For those here who can but haven't read the actual
CUPERTINO, California—April 9, 2015—Apple Watch™, Apple’s most personal device yet, will be available for preview and pre-order on Friday, April 10. Customers in Australia, Canada, China, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Japan, the UK and the US can try on and experience Apple Watch at their local Apple Store® or at Galeries Lafayette in Paris, Isetan in Tokyo, Selfridges in London, and select Apple Authorized Resellers in Japan and China. Customers can pre-order their Apple Watch through the Apple Online Store(www.apple.com) beginning April 10 at 12:01 a.m. PDT for delivery beginning April 24.“We are excited to welcome customers tomorrow and introduce them to Apple Watch, our most personal device yet. Based on the tremendous interest from people visiting our stores, as well as the number of customers who have gone to the Apple Online Store to mark their favorite Apple Watch ahead of availability, we expect that strong customer demand will exceed our supply at launch,” said Angela Ahrendts, Apple’s senior vice president of Retail and Online Stores. “To provide the best experience and selection to as many customers as we can, we will be taking orders for Apple Watch exclusively online during the initial launch period.”Customers interested in learning more about Apple Watch can visit their local Apple Store for a personalized session with a Specialist to try on, fit and size their band, and explore the amazing features of Apple Watch. Customers who want to try on an Apple Watch are encouraged to make an appointment by going to www.apple.com.Starting Friday, customers can try on Apple Watch, Apple Watch Sport or Apple Watch Edition* to find the model with the size, finish and band to best fit their personal preference and style. Everyone visiting an Apple Store will be able to view all three collections and get hands on with Apple Watch Demo to browse and edit different watch faces, and learn about Apple Watch’s health and fitness features, Digital Touch, Siri®, Apple Pay™** and more.
Pre-orders begin April 10 at 12:01 a.m. PDT through the Apple Online Store, the Apple Store app for iPhone® and iPad®, and select Apple Authorized Resellers in China and Japan. Customers who pre-order their Apple Watch can have it shipped for delivery beginning April 24. All Apple Watch customers will be offered Personal Setup, online or in-store, to pair their Apple Watch with their iPhone. New owners will also learn how to personalize Apple Watch by selecting a watch face, deciding which notifications to receive, setting up the Activity app, and receive an introduction to Apple Pay** and the Apple Watch App Store™. Beginning April 24, Apple Watch will also be available at boutiques in major cities including colette in Paris, Dover Street Market in London and Tokyo, Maxfield in Los Angeles and The Corner in Berlin, and select Apple Authorized Resellers in China and Japan.…
* Pessimistic Forecast
It's a marketing technique that is fundamentally taught in college marketing classes across the country and the world.
The problem is...almost everyone here seems to be taking extreme positions without using an open mind and not accepting the fact that IT IS POSSIBLE that Apple uses this technique, also. I'm not stating that they do or don't, just merely suggesting that it's not out of the question.
I am an Apple lover and user since 1989 and a major shareholder since 1997....but don't drink Kool-Aid. I think they are a great, well run company, but I also see the cracks in their perfect facade because Apple is not perfect. I think in a practical manner. I just use big picture thinking and don't doubt that any (or certain) tactics are not used to gain mindshare and perceived demand for a product, especially in a nascent, unproven category.
Unlike Samsung, which uses unscrupulous marketing tactics, Apple takes the high-road. And constrained supply is a high-road marketing tactic.
How does that make any sense. Flip it around. What is Apple said, you can come in for a try on on the 10th. Oh, and by the way, you can also order on the 10th. So if you are inclined to wait until the 10th to try one on in the store, you then aren't required to also wait until the 17th to order it. Seems you'd want to order it as soon as you're been able to try it on, and you can do that with the current setup by simply waiting until after you've tried one on before ordering one. You can self-imposed a delay in ordering. But for those of us who have already gone into the Apple Store app on our phone, have seen the actual size images, automatically adjusted to the known display size of your iPhone screen, and have determined which Watch size is appropriate (I have smaller wrists and so its obvious to me that the 38mm is the appropriate size for me), and those of us who already know which band and material we want, why should we have to wait until you are able to go take the time to try one on. We'd be penalized and held back on being first in line simply to allow you to get comfortable with the size and style you want. Doesn't make sense.
So how does it make any sense to a customer to be able to go into a store and try something on, something that does not need tailoring or fitting thereafter, find the one you want, and then have to wait a week before you can place an order? How does it make any sense for a business to tempt people with a product that they have travelled to your store to try on to then not allow that customer to get into the order queue? You seem to be thinking there are two distinct classes of customers that somehow need to be given fair access. The customers who need to see it in person first and those who don't. Nope. They are the same customers. Each may choose which group to belong to. If you choose to take the risk of ordering without first seeing and trying it on in person, you are rewarded for that risk by being earlier in the queue. Don't you see how this balances out?
This type of buying occurs all the time, such as when new housing or condo developments are being constructed. You can take the risk that you will like the property without seeing it fully constructed and doing a walk-through and you are rewarded for taking that risk by being able to select your plot of land for your home construction or floor/view in a condo tower ahead of other buyers. Those who make a purchase decision early are offered some incentive, some reward, benefit or advantage for having taken a risk.
Some online reviews of the Apple watch have positive comments about battery life. They used the watch for a week and battery lasted full days with heavy use. For some of them, the battery even lasted 2 days.
So, get my ass up and will preorder 2 Sport sizes. Will return one after trying on.
OK, I'm going to give you a different perspective on this. Not argumentative, just a different perspective.
For last years iPhone launch, Apple revved up the (vast and imperfect!) supply chain a few months in advance for component availability, got Foxconn/Pegatron humming a month in advance to build up supply at breakneck speed (with those companies being forced to supplement their staff with new hires), contracted with FedEx/UPS/Whoever to be prepared to ship things directly from the factory to customers' very doors and/or tons of supply to AppleStores and retail partners (worldwide) so that things would hit their destinations in the nick of time on or before launch day, handled online and in-store purchase and activation (sometimes not without glitches), struggled to deliver software updates and handle the rush, ultimately resulting in over 10 million devices purchased and shipped in a matter of 3 days. And it didn't end there. It took months for the supply chain to crank up the volume to reach supply/demand balance. Word of new hires at Foxconn came long after launch. Word of new suppliers to help with manufacture of screens.
This is unprecedented performance. This is the Sistine Chapel of manufacturing, sales, and delivery. This is the Grand Canyon of operational excellence. Was it perfect though? No, far from it. But there isn't a company in the world that isn't in awe of this feat. Not one. Then you come along after and suggest "oh, they could have done better, but they wanted to artificially constrain supply as a marketing ploy". The fact that it is a plausible notion - one which cannot be proved or disproved - does not change the fact that this just smacks of lacking appreciation for what you just observed.
To me, it's like walking up to the Grand Canyon the first time and then, shrugging your shoulders, saying "Well, it could have been grander, but God just didn't want to spoil us." Then you walk away.
I said that I wouldn't be argumentative, but I just can't help myself... your whole position on this seems trite and naive under the circumstances.
Another business technique taught in college classes is that market share is the key. That selling at lower margins to sell more units leads to success. LOL.
We are talking about Apple here, not some run of the mill company that has a problem selling 1 million units.
See my response to dickprinter (just above). Gives a different perspective on the debate.
Order them both with the White band, likely to be the color in highest demand, and then put the extra one up on eBay in a one-day auction with overnight shipping and a BuyItNow price of $748 (the price of both a 38mm and a 42mm). You might just get enough to pay for both, effectively getting yours free. If for some crazy reason you don't get bids, you'll still have plenty of time to return it to Apple.
I'm too lazy to scroll up, so I'm going to wait for a new message from Dick Printer to come along on this thread before I block him. Should be any minute now. LOL!
sog35 wrote: »
So just because there is a remote possibility that Apple uses this sketcy marketing technique (which you have absolutely ZERO proof) you think its responsible to say they do it (thats what SpamSandwich said).
Give me a break. Again show me a single shred of evidence. You have none. So why even bring it up?
This is like saying Tim Cook murders kittens since you know there is a remote possibility that he does.
Whats my proof that they don't use this method? How about 10+ million iPhone 6 sold in the first weekend and 75 million in the first full quarter. Does that sound like a company that needs to play sketcy marketing games?
his point stands -- if you're not buying the (first generation, since there is no other at this time) apple watch under any circumstances, why tell the world how concerned you are about the purchasing process? it comes off as concern-troll nonsense.