Companies that partner with Microsoft seem to end up dying or getting majorly screwed.
From IBM( Poorly made CP/M clone renamed MS DOS, OS/2), Sega(Dreamcast which used Wince), PlaysforSure partners, to Nokia.
Apple somehow survived and still has Office made for it.
The Dreamcast (and Sega) had many problems.
WinCE was not one of them, that was actually one of the systems' major strengths. Yes, some would argue it was part of the catalyst that led to the Xbox, but Sega wasn't going to survive regardless of the Xbox's entry in the market.
For companies like Samsung, just keeping a finger in the market is enough since profit is covered by its diversified industries. For Google, it is about driving eyeballs to their real profit center, advertising and selling personal data. made more valuable by understanding the target audience better and keeping it to themselves
Good question. If there is no money to be made from Android phones, why are there so many companies making them? Why haven't they all stopped and done something else?
Cannacord seems to be the only company providing an analysis which attributes 93% of smartphone profits to Apple. Given that there are so many companies making smartphones I find it rather odd that they would happily keep making losses, year after year. Perhaps The manufacturers know something Cannacord doesn't.
Interestingly, Nokia's share price has doubled in the last two years.
Nokia's share price is driven by its largest divison, networking equipment division, which is profitable.
The figure of 93% is misleading in 3 ways. Not all companies that make smartphones publish the profit/loss figures for the smartphones only. So there is a lot of guessing in these figures. Secondly the base of the 100% is "all profits - all losses of all companies combined", which is 30% lower than "all profits combined". We can assume that MS can afford to make a lot of losses with Windows Phone. Taken this into account, Apple makes actually 70 % of all profits, and all profitable Android players make 30 % of the profits. Thirdly the figures were calculated when Samsung had its worst quarters ever for its smartphone division. The first indications of 2015 are becoming public and Samsung seems to recover, currently it cannot cope with the demand for the S6 and S6-edge, which sell much better than the S5 when it was launched
By creating the simlest phone OS with the most minimalistic designs they can, Apple makes it hard for anyone else's stuff to be "innovative" while not looking like bloatware. Almost everything made now will look like an apple or android knockoff. Of course the pair have been copying eachother as well.
By creating the simlest phone OS with the most minimalistic designs they can, Apple makes it hard for anyone else's stuff to be "innovative" while not looking like bloatware. Almost everything made now will look like an apple or android knockoff. Of course the pair have been copying each other as well.
If there is no money to be made from Android phones, why are there so many companies making them? Why haven't they all stopped and done something else?
companies build and release things that dont make money all the time. larger companies can absorb the loss (remember Microsoft's previous Surface write-off?). they can cancel the project and move onto the next one. or improve and make a profit. some will exit unprofitable markets, as we've seen w/ the PC makers.
but the existence of these market failures in no way indicates profitability; for those companies or even that sector.
That's rather what I have been thinking for some time.
great. how about you invest in some of these android-makers? surely youre comfortable with that, due to your implication that theyre in fact making profit and good profit at that?
it's personal data -- your email contents and physical location are surely at the person-level. that they dont attach your name doesnt make it any less personal.
just be honest about what google does...they sell advertising spots to companies that want access to targeted groups of people based on their personal details.
oh no? the most profitable mobile & PC maker, as well as the most profitable publically traded company w/ the most profitable last quarter in the history of mankind may disagree with you...
oh no? the most profitable mobile & PC maker, as well as the most profitable publically traded company w/ the most profitable last quarter in the history of mankind may disagree with you...
Then ask Palm, BB, Nokia and Microsoft. A 20% success rate is awfully bad.
I think the best Nokia can hope for now is to license any of their valuable IP.
Nokia did keep a lot of their IP; they only sold a license to Microsoft. In one way Nokia did unload a lot of overhead to MS, who just finished laying off 12K of assumed Nokia employees. Nokia did have a pretty large stake in manufacturing as well as a ton of employees in the cell phone business. The sale to MS allowed them to reorganize as a much leaner business.
Personally, I'd find it very amusing if Nokia could surpass MS in the cell phone business in the next year or so. MS just can't seem to get any traction there. First MS dumped their Windows CE phones, then dumped the Kin phones. Then MS sold the Windows 7 phone, and then abandoned all the users by not allowing an upgrade to Windows 8. They then announced a Windows 8.1 phone, which they Osborned by announcing a jump to Windows 10, which isn't shipping yet... None of the MS phone OSes seem to be very compatible with each other or each other's hardware... Along the way MS also lost their Clown-in-charge too. I'd have paid money to see him still steering MS around as if it were a clown car.
Good question. If there is no money to be made from Android phones, why are there so many companies making them? Why haven't they all stopped and done something else?
Cannacord seems to be the only company providing an analysis which attributes 93% of smartphone profits to Apple. Given that there are so many companies making smartphones I find it rather odd that they would happily keep making losses, year after year. Perhaps The manufacturers know something Cannacord doesn't.
Interestingly, Nokia's share price has doubled in the last two years.
You also need to consider the fact that Apple don't take 93% of the smartphone profit every quarter. That 93% was after one of Apple's most successful quarter where it matched Samsung in terms of unit sales (74.5 million). While Apple still take a large chunk of the profit the rest of the year, there's enough to go to other smaller players.
well, something has got to work. and we all learned that copying apple comes with little to no consequences. (i am not saying that their phones are copying- just saying that it is apparently a safe road to travel if they want to make their own phones again).
That's a good question, I'm sure they're still having some troubles but the Samsung S6 is looking to be a huge success. Which doesn't surprise me as it's a very attractive phone, to bad it's still running that horrid TouchWiz and is way too exspensive. I'm happy to see Nokia coming back into the game though, they will only be allowed to build smartphones as the Microsot agreement prohibits them from manufacturing feature phones for the foreseable future. I reall like the Nokia N1 even though they obviously ripped off the iPad Mini design but who isn't nowadays. It's a well built tablet with fairly impressive features at very reasonable price point. If Nokia can produce phones with a similiar price point and good features they might be able to make a decent profit. I no longer have much interest in Android outside of the tablet and TV set box realm but I'll defiantly be keeping an eye on them regardless.
it's personal data -- your email contents and physical location are surely at the person-level. that they dont attach your name doesnt make it any less personal.
just be honest about what google does...they sell advertising spots to companies that want access to targeted groups of people based on their personal details.
Are they selling any data at all, even anonymized? Not that I know of. From everything I've read whatever Google thinks they know about your interests is kept to themselves and used to deliver more personalized advertising results. Not so different than Apple does with iAd. I've not read that they sell it to 3rd parties so they can use bypass Google's advertising placement and do it themselves without any more help from Google. That wouldn't even make business sense right? I think some folks have a vivid imagination.
I know in my case Google doesn't know "me" all that well thinking I'm about 10 years younger than actual with interests I don't have.
game over I'm afraid. Apple (and Samsung) have economies of scale and a long head-start. Google, Amazon and Microsoft haven't been able to pull it off. They won't be able to either.
Are they selling any data at all, even anonymized? Not that I know of. From everything I've read whatever Google thinks they know about your interests is kept to themselves and used to deliver more personalized advertising results. Not so different than Apple does with iAd. I've not read that they sell it to 3rd parties so they can use bypass Google's advertising placement and do it themselves without any more help from Google. That wouldn't even make business sense right? I think some folks have a vivid imagination.
I know in my case Google doesn't know "me" all that well thinking I'm about 10 years younger than actual with interests I don't have.
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Why does "share" seem like such a weasel word?
As in "we shared our data with the NSA because they really wanted it".
Comments
Companies that partner with Microsoft seem to end up dying or getting majorly screwed.
From IBM( Poorly made CP/M clone renamed MS DOS, OS/2), Sega(Dreamcast which used Wince), PlaysforSure partners, to Nokia.
Apple somehow survived and still has Office made for it.
The Dreamcast (and Sega) had many problems.
WinCE was not one of them, that was actually one of the systems' major strengths. Yes, some would argue it was part of the catalyst that led to the Xbox, but Sega wasn't going to survive regardless of the Xbox's entry in the market.
Good question. If there is no money to be made from Android phones, why are there so many companies making them? Why haven't they all stopped and done something else?
Cannacord seems to be the only company providing an analysis which attributes 93% of smartphone profits to Apple. Given that there are so many companies making smartphones I find it rather odd that they would happily keep making losses, year after year. Perhaps The manufacturers know something Cannacord doesn't.
Interestingly, Nokia's share price has doubled in the last two years.
Nokia's share price is driven by its largest divison, networking equipment division, which is profitable.
The figure of 93% is misleading in 3 ways. Not all companies that make smartphones publish the profit/loss figures for the smartphones only. So there is a lot of guessing in these figures. Secondly the base of the 100% is "all profits - all losses of all companies combined", which is 30% lower than "all profits combined". We can assume that MS can afford to make a lot of losses with Windows Phone. Taken this into account, Apple makes actually 70 % of all profits, and all profitable Android players make 30 % of the profits. Thirdly the figures were calculated when Samsung had its worst quarters ever for its smartphone division. The first indications of 2015 are becoming public and Samsung seems to recover, currently it cannot cope with the demand for the S6 and S6-edge, which sell much better than the S5 when it was launched
Build your own hardware and OS.
Wait that's not right either.
Funny how few people realize this.
Fixed
Thank you, Eric.
companies build and release things that dont make money all the time. larger companies can absorb the loss (remember Microsoft's previous Surface write-off?). they can cancel the project and move onto the next one. or improve and make a profit. some will exit unprofitable markets, as we've seen w/ the PC makers.
but the existence of these market failures in no way indicates profitability; for those companies or even that sector.
great. how about you invest in some of these android-makers? surely youre comfortable with that, due to your implication that theyre in fact making profit and good profit at that?
it's personal data -- your email contents and physical location are surely at the person-level. that they dont attach your name doesnt make it any less personal.
just be honest about what google does...they sell advertising spots to companies that want access to targeted groups of people based on their personal details.
oh no? the most profitable mobile & PC maker, as well as the most profitable publically traded company w/ the most profitable last quarter in the history of mankind may disagree with you...
Then ask Palm, BB, Nokia and Microsoft. A 20% success rate is awfully bad.
Nokia did keep a lot of their IP; they only sold a license to Microsoft. In one way Nokia did unload a lot of overhead to MS, who just finished laying off 12K of assumed Nokia employees. Nokia did have a pretty large stake in manufacturing as well as a ton of employees in the cell phone business. The sale to MS allowed them to reorganize as a much leaner business.
Personally, I'd find it very amusing if Nokia could surpass MS in the cell phone business in the next year or so. MS just can't seem to get any traction there. First MS dumped their Windows CE phones, then dumped the Kin phones. Then MS sold the Windows 7 phone, and then abandoned all the users by not allowing an upgrade to Windows 8. They then announced a Windows 8.1 phone, which they Osborned by announcing a jump to Windows 10, which isn't shipping yet... None of the MS phone OSes seem to be very compatible with each other or each other's hardware... Along the way MS also lost their Clown-in-charge too. I'd have paid money to see him still steering MS around as if it were a clown car.
You also need to consider the fact that Apple don't take 93% of the smartphone profit every quarter. That 93% was after one of Apple's most successful quarter where it matched Samsung in terms of unit sales (74.5 million). While Apple still take a large chunk of the profit the rest of the year, there's enough to go to other smaller players.
How's Samsung doing lately?
That's a good question, I'm sure they're still having some troubles but the Samsung S6 is looking to be a huge success. Which doesn't surprise me as it's a very attractive phone, to bad it's still running that horrid TouchWiz and is way too exspensive. I'm happy to see Nokia coming back into the game though, they will only be allowed to build smartphones as the Microsot agreement prohibits them from manufacturing feature phones for the foreseable future. I reall like the Nokia N1 even though they obviously ripped off the iPad Mini design but who isn't nowadays. It's a well built tablet with fairly impressive features at very reasonable price point. If Nokia can produce phones with a similiar price point and good features they might be able to make a decent profit. I no longer have much interest in Android outside of the tablet and TV set box realm but I'll defiantly be keeping an eye on them regardless.
I know in my case Google doesn't know "me" all that well thinking I'm about 10 years younger than actual with interests I don't have.
Are they selling any data at all, even anonymized? Not that I know of. From everything I've read whatever Google thinks they know about your interests is kept to themselves and used to deliver more personalized advertising results. Not so different than Apple does with iAd. I've not read that they sell it to 3rd parties so they can use bypass Google's advertising placement and do it themselves without any more help from Google. That wouldn't even make business sense right? I think some folks have a vivid imagination.
I know in my case Google doesn't know "me" all that well thinking I'm about 10 years younger than actual with interests I don't have.
"Information we share
We do not share personal information with companies, organizations and individuals outside of Google unless one of the following circumstances applies:
With your consent
We will share personal information with companies, organizations or individuals outside of Google when we have your consent to do so. We require opt-in consent for the sharing of any sensitive personal information.
With domain administrators
If your Google Account is managed for you by a domain administrator (for example, for Google Apps users) then your domain administrator and resellers who provide user support to your organization will have access to your Google Account information (including your email and other data). Your domain administrator may be able to:
Please refer to your domain administrator’s privacy policy for more information.
For external processing
We provide personal information to our affiliates or other trusted businesses or persons to process it for us, based on our instructions and in compliance with our Privacy Policy and any other appropriate confidentiality and security measures.
For legal reasons
We will share personal information with companies, organizations or individuals outside of Google if we have a good-faith belief that access, use, preservation or disclosure of the information is reasonably necessary to:
We may share aggregated, non-personally identifiable information publicly and with our partners – like publishers, advertisers or connected sites. For example, we may share information publicly to show trends about the general use of our services.
If Google is involved in a merger, acquisition or asset sale, we will continue to ensure the confidentiality of any personal information and give affected users notice before personal information is transferred or becomes subject to a different privacy policy."
Why does "share" seem like such a weasel word?
As in "we shared our data with the NSA because they really wanted it".