American broadcasters turn up the volume on misguided campaign to enable FM tuners in smartphones

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  • Reply 81 of 108
    desuserigndesuserign Posts: 1,316member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

     

    Phones have never had AM radios due to the simple fact that the required antenna is too big.


    I believe a few have had AM tuners. And we've all seen small AM radios without a huge antenna, so I don't think it's a[n insurmountable] limiting factor. I imagine it would not achieve anything near Apple's quality standards though.

  • Reply 82 of 108
    lightknightlightknight Posts: 2,312member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    Auto sales are booming and every one comes with a radio. Quality of radio content is what is at gutter level. Personally I like small community radio and public, university radio much better than mega-watt commercial radio. Streaming is fine but it uses your data over cellular and is not always as accessible as an FM signal.


    Here's an idea: reserve FM to community (non-profits, governments, universities) radios. Probably not a very American concept, but would serve the people much better than Fox News.

  • Reply 83 of 108
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,718member
    desuserign wrote: »
    That's a ridiculous assertion!
    It really depends on the quality of the FM signal/reception versus the bitrate of the internet stream. There are plenty of low bitrate streams out there that sound terrible.

    While that's true FM isn't what it used to be ... there was a time the DJ (I assume we are talking music here) used to play a CD or even and LP (in my day). Today they have ripped to CDs into a computer and multiple stages of conversions and compressions have occurred before transmission. Sadly it's the FM content that is terrible these days, the actual technology is going to waste it seems.
  • Reply 84 of 108
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,718member
    Here's an idea: reserve FM to community (non-profits, governments, universities) radios. Probably not a very American concept, but would serve the people much better than Fox News.

    Oh come on ... how would nearly half of the American population know what to say or even think without being told by FoxNews every day ;)
  • Reply 85 of 108
    lightknightlightknight Posts: 2,312member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post





    Oh come on ... how would nearly half of the American population know what to say or even think without being told by FoxNews every day image



    I hope this is a gross over exaggeration of an extreme caricature , because the opposite would be very sad and frightening about the future of our common species :/ (and somedays, yes, I'm wondering if it might not be the case).

     

    On the other hand, on a positive note, real life keeps teaching me to not underestimate "real people", all these other persons with rich, full lives out there, that actually exist even when I'm not there to check ;)

  • Reply 86 of 108

    There is a LOT of misinformation in this thread.  Lets try to clean it up just a bit:



    1)  The radio app used on phones uses VERY little battery power, FAR less than streaming as it does not have to provide a return signal to the cell tower, nor does it require processor power.

     

    2)  Does anyone remember that small earthquake outside of DC a few years back?  Here is what happened:  Tens of thousands of people picked up their cell phones at the same time and dialed.  The effect was devastating to the cellular system.  Simply put it crashed.. hard.  People all the way to the west coast suffered outages, data skips and emails and texts delayed by days.  It took nearly a week for the systems to recover.  Imagine if that happened now and in souther California!



    3)  Cell Phones have a very limited range.  You always need to be close to a tower.  Imagine a tornado bearing down on a small town in Nebraska.  When the cell system goes down, where can people get information?  That small FM chip can pick up distant signals and keep people up to date on what is happening.  Such was the case mentioned above when the cell system crashed around DC, but WTOP kept the information coming.

     

    Yes old fashion 1940's technology radio is still relevant, strong and even recommended as one of the more sound business models by Morgan Stanley.  As for Norway?  As Abraham Lincoln once said "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet".

  • Reply 87 of 108
    ktappektappe Posts: 823member
    I would use an FM tuner in my phone if I could.
  • Reply 88 of 108
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     



    The station can choose to use either an omni-directional antenna or a directional antenna. With directional you can direct all the wattage toward your audience as is the case in my small town in Panama. The antenna is high on the hill and points towards town. With omni you get less distance because power is distributed in all directions.

     

    I was also under the impression that all RF is line of sight although it can to some degree be reflected off of planer surfaces and penetrate some materials which varies depending on power and frequency. At least that is the case with X-rays which I know a little bit about.




    The Earth tends to bend RF of lower frequencies to it's will so it is line-of-sight only in theory.  Very low frequency has been used to communicate with submarines as given enough power, it can penetrate the earth and water and subs can actually receive it at immense distances while submerged.  The low frequencies AM uses propagate hundreds of km.  A bit higher in FQ and you have the short wave frequencies which bounce between the ionosphere and Earth to propagate globally.  VOA, Deutsche Welle, the BBC and innumerable others were listened to world-wide by many, prior to the internet.  Generally, the higher the FQ, the shorter the range and the more line-of-sight transmissions tend to be.

  • Reply 89 of 108
    razorpit wrote: »
    There are times where I wish I could listen to the local baseball & football games but can't because the app that streams the local programming rolls over to alternative programming as soon as the game starts.  I'm not going to carry around an FM radio just for that.

    This is my biggest concern, as well. The deal that MLB has with the radio broadcasters to limit streaming over mobile unless you pay for their app is incredibly limiting to me. If one could pick up this broadcast on a radio, why not allow my iPhone to receive it as well? The best thing about FM and AM radio is that it is free and accessible by everyone. It is terrible to black it out because of a sports deal.
  • Reply 90 of 108

    What's interesting to me here is that around half the respondents to this topic say they would actually use a radio tuner in their phone were it available! I figured I'd be one in a very small minority.  Given the interest here, I would say that this represents growing evidence that the broadcast industry has a solid case that they are being conspired against!  Clearly many consumers desire the technology, and it's being withheld!

  • Reply 91 of 108
    mactacmactac Posts: 316member

    Apps, that rely on a cellular or WiFi connection is not the same as being able to receive over the air broadcasts.

    It is about having choices should one thing become unavailable.

    If Apps are so great why do people have their digital music on their phone too?

    Again, it's about choices.

  • Reply 92 of 108
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

     

    What's interesting to me here is that around half the respondents to this topic say they would actually use a radio tuner in their phone were it available! I figured I'd be one in a very small minority.  Given the interest here, I would say that this represents growing evidence that the broadcast industry has a solid case that they are being conspired against!  Clearly many consumers desire the technology, and it's being withheld!


     

    In this way, smartphone amenities are sort of like hotel amenities. The nicer a hotel is, the more likely they are to charge for Internet access and breakfast, while the less expensive hotels offer both for free.

     

    My Moto X has the FM chip, but no access to it. The cheaper Moto G will play from an FM tuner just fine.

  • Reply 93 of 108
    shaminoshamino Posts: 527member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View PostI was also under the impression that all RF is line of sight although it can to some degree be reflected off of planer surfaces and penetrate some materials which varies depending on power and frequency. At least that is the case with X-rays which I know a little bit about.

     

    Some frequencies (especially very low frequencies - VLF) can penetrate rock and ocean.  These can't carry a lot of bandwidth but they are used (for example) as emergency frequencies from submarines, since they can always get through to a receiver.

     

    Some (like AM radio) can bounce off of layers of the atmosphere, so you can often receive from a transmitter that is below the horizon.  Weather conditions can affect this greatly, however.  This is why (for instance) most AM radio stations lower their power output after dark, because their signals propagate farther at night and transmitting at full power is more likely to interfere with distant stations after dark.

     

    Short Wave radio can carry over extreme distances.  It is not unusual for a short wave receiver to pick up stations from thousands of miles away.

     

    FM radio and TV bands typically don't reflect over the atmosphere and don't penetrate large masses, so they (typically) can't be received if the transmitter is below the horizon.  But there are exceptions.  I remember one morning where I was able to receive a Mexican station in New York City.  The atmospheric condition making that possible didn't last very long and reception vanished in less than an hour.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

    Phones have never had AM radios due to the simple fact that the required antenna is too big.

      Quote:


    Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

    I believe a few have had AM tuners. And we've all seen small AM radios without a huge antenna, so I don't think it's a[n insurmountable] limiting factor. I imagine it would not achieve anything near Apple's quality standards though.

     

    I've never seen a cell phone with an AM radio.

     

    Every portable device with an AM receiver has had a bar-antenna inside (a copper coil wound around a metal bar).  Home stereo systems usually use an external coil with a much larger diameter wound around a plastic frame.   You can't cram something like this into a device the size of a modern cell phone, although a device the size of a 1st-gen iPod probably would have room for one.

     

    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Chris Rolando View Post

    2)  Does anyone remember that small earthquake outside of DC a few years back?  Here is what happened:  Tens of thousands of people picked up their cell phones at the same time and dialed.  The effect was devastating to the cellular system.  Simply put it crashed.. hard.  People all the way to the west coast suffered outages, data skips and emails and texts delayed by days.  It took nearly a week for the systems to recover.

    ...

    3)  Cell Phones have a very limited range.  You always need to be close to a tower. ...


     

    I was in that earthquake.  The network was pretty bogged down for a few hours, but it was working fine by the evening.  Maybe some specific services were down for a week, but "the system" seemed to recover just fine once the usage load returned to normal.

     

    As for proximity to a tower, that depends on where you are.  In cities, you typically find a lot of cell sites with low-range transmitters, because a small number of long-distance sites wouldn't have the capacity to handle the customer density.  If you go out to the country, where the population density is lower, you'll find fewer towers, but with greater range.  (And they can get overloaded if there's some event that causes a lot of people to visit that location.  Which is why organizers of large events often contract to have truck-based cell sites set up for the duration of the event.)

  • Reply 94 of 108

    With all respect:

     

    The FCC has a report on their site on how long the system was down.  They were directly affected.

     

    With regard to higher power towers...  this does not matter.   The typical radio station's power level is approximately 80 dBm and can accommodate unlimited connections with no degradation in signal.  A cell tower cannot exceed 27 dBm.  The handset you have cannot exceed 24 dBm.  THAT is the limiting factor.  By contrast your Bluetooth headset runs at 20 dBm and your home wireless router, 15 dBm. 

  • Reply 95 of 108
    They are selling digital music. There is no space here for competitors.
    Never give a sucker a dime. Manufacturers would be stupid to comply.

    The great thing about FM is that batteries seems to last forever.
  • Reply 96 of 108
    desuserigndesuserign Posts: 1,316member
    shamino wrote: »
      Quote:

    I've never seen a cell phone with an AM radio.

    Every portable device with an AM receiver has had a bar-antenna inside (a copper coil wound around a metal bar).  Home stereo systems usually use an external coil with a much larger diameter wound around a plastic frame.   You can't cram something like this into a device the size of a modern cell phone, although a device the size of a 1st-gen iPod probably would have room for one.

    Cellphone with an AM radio (or maybe radio with a cellphone?):
    http://m.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_r300_radio-2228.php
    Probably not much call for it as it is discontinued. But there are still many FM equipped cellphones available.
    [There may be an issue with the link. Just google "Sony Erikson R 300 radio"]

    Tiny ferrite core coils are widely available from suppliers in Asia for a pennies apiece.
    http://m.globalsources.com/gsol/I/AM-FM/p/sm/1091418228.htm
    (Not tiny enough to fit in an iPhone, though.)
  • Reply 97 of 108
    dimwitdimwit Posts: 29member
    Here is why I would use the fm tuner if it were possible...

    Where I work, there is no cellular service to speak of. There is literally 1 cell tower within 12 miles in any direction, and it is a T-Mobile one with edge only service. And as I am in the mountains? Even its reach is about 1.5 miles. There are, however, 4 FM stations that reach here.
  • Reply 98 of 108
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post





    Cellphone with an AM radio (or maybe radio with a cellphone?):

    http://m.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_r300_radio-2228.php

    Probably not much call for it as it is discontinued. But there are still many FM equipped cellphones available.

    [There may be an issue with the link. Just google "Sony Erikson R 300 radio"]



    Tiny ferrite core coils are widely available from suppliers in Asia for a pennies apiece.

    http://m.globalsources.com/gsol/I/AM-FM/p/sm/1091418228.htm

    (Not tiny enough to fit in an iPhone, though.)



    You could always stick one of these on, or glue a crystal set to the back.

     

  • Reply 99 of 108
    shaminoshamino Posts: 527member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

    Cellphone with an AM radio (or maybe radio with a cellphone?):

    http://m.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_r300_radio-2228.php



    Tiny ferrite core coils are widely available from suppliers in Asia for a pennies apiece.

    http://m.globalsources.com/gsol/I/AM-FM/p/sm/1091418228.htm

    (Not tiny enough to fit in an iPhone, though.)

     

    Size is the key factor here, not price.  That phone you linked to is huge.  The dimensions are (3.98 x 1.81 x 0.47 in) - nearly a half-inch thick.  That's plenty of room to put an AM coil antenna.

     

    The coil you linked to doesn't have dimensions listed, but I would be very surprised if it could fit in any modern smartphone.  They're all much thinner than that 2008-era Sony/Ericsson model.

  • Reply 100 of 108
    waterrocketswaterrockets Posts: 1,231member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by IHateRegistering View Post



    I HATE COMMERCIALS! I do not want to be manipulated constantly. There needs to be someone at the end of every commercial saying why NOT to buy the product. Balance things out. Give us both sides of the story.

     

    Or you could just be a discriminating viewer.

     

    Interesting idea though. What are you thinking would be appropriate following the latest Apple Watch ads?

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