Let's look at the iPhone. It's a phone, a computer, and has a camera. With all that people still buy phones, cameras, and computers. Which goes against your logic.
It's quite obvious you don't own one yet.
Your posts on this may have a little more credibility if you experienced owning one. I am not saying that you should. But rather, arguing with someone about, say, a movie they have not seen or a restaurant they have not been to or a car they have not driven or (you get the idea) is somewhat pointless, no?
I was in the Apple Store this afternoon and it was super crowded as usual. Lots of people just using the iPads and computers to browse the web. There was a Mac training session going on in one corner. The new 12" Retina Macbook Pro was very popular, they had a space grey and gold one on show on the side of the table I was looking at, over the other side some guy was picking it up to admire the thinness while being careful not to set off any alarms.
The main front window contained an Apple Watch display (the one with all the circles) and the Apple Watch table was right in the centre of the Store. The table had 38mm down one side and 42mm down the other. Sport, regular and Edition were all on show. But there was no-one at that table, and because the store was so crowded otherwise it really stood out. People swarming around all the tables expect for the Apple Watch table. I was half expecting a tumbleweed to blow by it.
Interesting. A picture would have been helpful. Where was this? Or rather, which store in London? (Just kidding.)
It's rather weird -- and just one data point -- how my experience was the exact opposite: the Apple Store about an hour away fom where I live had a PACKED AppleWatch display table. Given that it was just a display case, all you could really do was look at it. There was separate set of areas where you could play with one, and those were all busy too.
In fact, the New MacBook (he didn't seem to know that there is no 12" Pro, btw) table was empty! Other than to hold it up and to look at the screen quality, there as not much else you could with it.
Let's look at the iPhone. It's a phone, a computer, and has a camera. With all that people still buy phones, cameras, and computers. Which goes against your logic.
are you serious? you just cited three sickly markets.
feature phones are in sharp decline. one day not far from now all phones will be smartphones.
Point and shoots were decimated by smartphones. iPhone is the #1 camera on flickr.
PC sales have been stalling, even while mobile devices are climbing.
...if that's your evidence then watch companies should be very afraid.
I was in the Apple Store this afternoon and it was super crowded as usual. Lots of people just using the iPads and computers to browse the web. There was a Mac training session going on in one corner. The new 12" Retina Macbook Pro was very popular, they had a space grey and gold one on show on the side of the table I was looking at, over the other side some guy was picking it up to admire the thinness while being careful not to set off any alarms.
The main front window contained an Apple Watch display (the one with all the circles) and the Apple Watch table was right in the centre of the Store. The table had 38mm down one side and 42mm down the other. Sport, regular and Edition were all on show. But there was no-one at that table, and because the store was so crowded otherwise it really stood out. People swarming around all the tables expect for the Apple Watch table. I was half expecting a tumbleweed to blow by it.
People will continue to buy high and mid-level Swiss automatic timepieces because they are singularly focused. I'll also suggest that cheaper electronic / mechanical watches will also continue to sell, regardless of what Apple does, because people want choices for what they wear (when a watch is looked at like a piece of jewelry).
As a mechanical timepiece made to exacting standards in small volumes the Swiss watch market brings man (and woman) back to a time when the watch was one, if not the only, piece of technology we could own, and one that helped guide our lives.
Just compare the traditional watch to vinyl records. Vinyl's history took it from the only game in town to something less than an afterthought, but the past few years, there has been a revival of vinyl as people look for something more - a connection to the past or a way to question whether what we have now really is the best way to deliver sound. The same could be said for high end tube amplifiers. For those that have a McIntosh, or pine after one (like me), settling for a cheap modern Sony or the like amplifier will never be acceptable.
I pulled my grandfather's Elgin pocket watch out a few weeks ago and simply marvel at the technology that went into making a mechanical watch of such precision given the technology available in the 1920's. Unscrewing the finely machined and polished back to expose the mechanism itself, doing something I know my grandfather did countless times, to see the gears working, is something Watch will never be able to offer.
I know that Apple is pushing this thing about the Watch being their most personal of devices, but just like the iPhone, we're really not owning a Watch, but rather borrowing it from Apple for a period of time (really until the next better version comes out).
I think about exactly this point each time I've had to take my iPhone in for repair / replacement. There is nothing that makes "my" iPhone, my iPhone. It's a vessel, a piece of technology, that today with iCloud, it could be replaced every day with a new version and we would not see any difference, because the device itself is simply a clone of itself.
So when this most personal of devices has an issue, you take it to Apple and they're just as likely to give you a new one than "fix" it, and it will sync up with your iPhone and once you put your bands on it, it will be as if it was "your" Watch. With mechanical watches, if there is a problem, they don't just replace the unit, like Apple will, but rather fix whatever needs to be fixed (new springs, gears, etc.). What you get back is your watch, not some replaceable vessel that holds the magic somewhere between your iPhone and the cloud.
and how many people are buying pocket watches like your grandfather's today?
Some Swiss watchmakers are starting to react with advertising. Both Rolex and Rado commercials have been showing up quite a bit during postseason NBA and NHL broadcasts. They offer dramatic visuals of striking and handsome products. My first reaction has been to be impressed, but then a few seconds later, the thought comes to mind ... "Wait a minute ... they're just watches ..."
(Addendum: a closeup of the Rolex watch face shows on it the legend - "Superlative Chronograph." I can appreciate that. It does what you've always expected from a Rolex. It keeps highly accurate time. But is this a unique selling point anymore? Does it keep any more accurate time than a device linked to a universal time source?)
Interesting. A picture would have been helpful. Where was this? Or rather, which store in London? (Just kidding.)
It was in Australia not the UK.
I think the problem is they need to let people play with them more. They're trying to sell it like a traditional watch, under a display case which the sales assistant takes it out of for you. That works great for traditional watches, because you already know what it does, you just need a few moments to feel the weight of it, and gauge the quality in your hand. But the Apple Watch doesn't have just one feature which everyone already knows, it has lots of features, so people need to play with it. It should be sold more like an iPhone that a traditional watch. This whole idea that "It's a whole new product and we have to do everything differently (from a sales perspective)," is wrong, they should have kept doing what they were doing.
That's the thing with fine watches, be they pocket or wrist, the market is small (compared to the mass market Apple goes after), but that doesn't mean the market is going to go away just because Apple offers a Watch that does more than a mechanical watch.
I'd counter Apple's Watch with the fact that you don't need to charge a mechanical watch every night using electricity you have to pay for, making the mechanical watch the more technologically advanced time piece. And the fact that my grandfathers watch is something that can be passed down generation after generation and not need to worry about the software being obsolete sets it apart from the yearly replace cycle Apple creates.
Sure, the mechanical watch might need a new spring mechanism every 50 years or so, but that is it. Even the Sieko automatic I wear every day and have for the past decade has required nothing more than the occasional cleaning (by me) and it has kept perfect time since the day I got it.
I'm not bashing the Watch, and will likely get one at some point, but the Swiss do not need to worry about the Watch doing anything other than bringing more awareness to the whole watch industry. I would also suggest that Apple may inadvertently grow the Swiss watch market, as interest in watches and the marketing around them goes up.
Your posts on this may have a little more credibility if you experienced owning one. I am not saying that you should. But rather, arguing with someone about, say, a movie they have not seen or a restaurant they have not been to or a car they have not driven or (you get the idea) is somewhat pointless, no?
Are the people arguing against me owners of automatic/mechanical watches? You should ask them that as well.
No, it means that you lend them, say, SFR1000 to get get back SFR990 one year from now. You're paying them to take your money.
Why does your post start with the word "No". Your answer should have been yes based on your explanation. It essentially works exactly as the original poster asked.
That's the thing with fine watches, be they pocket or wrist, the market is small (compared to the mass market Apple goes after), but that doesn't mean the market is going to go away just because Apple offers a Watch that does more than a mechanical watch.
I'd counter Apple's Watch with the fact that you don't need to charge a mechanical watch every night using electricity you have to pay for, making the mechanical watch the more technologically advanced time piece. And the fact that my grandfathers watch is something that can be passed down generation after generation and not need to worry about the software being obsolete sets it apart from the yearly replace cycle Apple creates.
Sure, the mechanical watch might need a new spring mechanism every 50 years or so, but that is it. Even the Sieko automatic I wear every day and have for the past decade has required nothing more than the occasional cleaning (by me) and it has kept perfect time since the day I got it.
I'm not bashing the Watch, and will likely get one at some point, but the Swiss do not need to worry about the Watch doing anything other than bringing more awareness to the whole watch industry. I would also suggest that Apple may inadvertently grow the Swiss watch market, as interest in watches and the marketing around them goes up.
LOL! I think for most people the electricity you use to charge/power the watch can be thought of as negligible. A quick google search shows that it costs roughly 40 cents per year to power the iPhone 5! The Apple Watch battery is much smaller than the battery in the iPhone 5 and my estimate would be that it costs less than 25 cents per YEAR to power it. Hardly a justification to choose a mechanical watch instead...lol!
hum.... as a Swiss citizen (AMA), there's something important in that article that needs to be corrected: The CHF (swiss franc) has never been that strong... so it goes to say, Apple prices are not a problem really... Apple hardware has a very strong penetration in the country, just grab a train or walk in town, you'll see iPhone and iPads anywhere...
If they really do not sell, it doesn't show. And if it is true, then it's not because of the national currency.... Cheers
I was in the Apple Store this afternoon and it was super crowded as usual. Lots of people just using the iPads and computers to browse the web. There was a Mac training session going on in one corner. The new 12" Retina Macbook Pro was very popular, they had a space grey and gold one on show on the side of the table I was looking at, over the other side some guy was picking it up to admire the thinness while being careful not to set off any alarms.
The main front window contained an Apple Watch display (the one with all the circles) and the Apple Watch table was right in the centre of the Store. The table had 38mm down one side and 42mm down the other. Sport, regular and Edition were all on show. But there was no-one at that table, and because the store was so crowded otherwise it really stood out. People swarming around all the tables expect for the Apple Watch table. I was half expecting a tumbleweed to blow by it.
Your experience differs from mine. I was in an Apple Store in Ohio last week and the Apple Store was packed as usual. The Watch table was definitely as busy as all of the other tables and they were not all locked away out of reach. They were tethered to the table so that you couldn't actually try one on - but you could definitely pick it up and interact with it. They were running some sort of demo/tutorial on a loop - so you couldn't really explore it "fully" - but that's really not possible to do anyway without pairing it with your phone. Upon request, an Apple employee would bring out (from under lock and key) the exact model you were interested in and let you try it on.
It's just another thing you have to plug in each night and whether it costs pennies a year or not, it's an extra cost. People who buy mechanical watches of course don't do so to save the cost of electricity. That wasn't my point.
If I were to buy a Watch or any smartwatch, it would not get used/worn every day. The selection of a watch on a particular day largely depends on mood and attire. Less on the function of a particular watch.
Sure, if I am going to visit a car race, I will put on a chronograph. And going to the beach, there will be a diver-type watch.
If it is a suit-day, I will probably wear an older classic. If it is a pink sock day something frivolous like a Swatch. Other day's are more suitable for something well designed, like a Braun or a Mondaine. A watch with a moonphase will never be picked to actually see what phase the moon is in. Will it fit with my shoes will probably be more of a motivation.
The Watch would go the same route. Some days it would be suitable attire, other days not.
So I can see why the Swiss watch industry is not to worried. Wearing a watch of any kind does not have any logic to it. There is no rationale. Is it a Paul Smith sock-day or is it an Armani sock-day are far more important to your watch choice.
What percentage of the market do you think shares your views on how to select which watch to wear on a daily basis? I'm sure there are people out there that also own a collection of watches and decide each day which one best goes with their outfit or planned activities for that day - but I don't know any of them. My feeling is that users that are as selective as you, would make up a very small percentage of the overall watch owners - and also that users who own a "fleet" of wrist timepieces would very likely welcome an Apple Watch into their arsenal.
Hey guys. As a Swiss citizen, there's something that need a correction in that articles. Swiss currency has never been that strong (as far as I can remember) so it most certainly does not follow the USD and Euro. Blaming the currency for Apple product not selling is not possible... Moreover, just take a train or walk around town, you'll see that Apple products are selling quite well in our country.
Anway, just to correct it a bit. Because that statement in the article seems all wrong.
...the watchmakers have as much ability to acquire the engineering expertise to incorporate smartwatch features into their watches as Apple had acquiring their fashion personnel to design and market the watch...
LOL! Seriously? Do you really believe that?
I think that's it's far easier to acquire fashion know-how than it is to acquire technology that would rival what's inside iOS and you're smart enough to know that...what gives? Trolling?
It's just another thing you have to plug in each night and whether it costs pennies a year or not, it's an extra cost. People who buy mechanical watches of course don't do so to save the cost of electricity. That wasn't my point.
Well - you specifically called out - as one of your points - that the watch used "electricity that you have to pay for". So some people may have walked away from your post thinking that the electricity might be a significant expense. I don't agree with your conclusions either - but at least they are based on valid opinions. The electricity angle was weak and I wanted to make sure that nobody was misled by it.
I think the problem is they need to let people play with them more. They're trying to sell it like a traditional watch, under a display case which the sales assistant takes it out of for you. That works great for traditional watches, because you already know what it does, you just need a few moments to feel the weight of it, and gauge the quality in your hand. But the Apple Watch doesn't have just one feature which everyone already knows, it has lots of features, so people need to play with it. It should be sold more like an iPhone that a traditional watch.
what on earth are you talking about? right next to those cases are interactive demo units -- an AW attached to an iPad that shows information about the screen youre currently on. you can play with them to your heart's content to try out all the features -- without any assistance whatsoever. just like the demo iPhones.
I'd counter Apple's Watch with the fact that you don't need to charge a mechanical watch every night using electricity you have to pay for, making the mechanical watch the more technologically advanced time piece. And the fact that my grandfathers watch is something that can be passed down generation after generation and not need to worry about the software being obsolete sets it apart from the yearly replace cycle Apple creates.
Sure, the mechanical watch might need a new spring mechanism every 50 years or so, but that is it. Even the Sieko automatic I wear every day and have for the past decade has required nothing more than the occasional cleaning (by me) and it has kept perfect time since the day I got it.
mechanical watches require regular maintenance as they go out of true.
not-requiring electrical charging doesn't make a mechanical watch more technologically advanced. the opposite is true -- the modern car is more advanced than your kid's bigwheel, despite its reliance on petro *and* a charged battery.
i also doubt we'll see annual upgrade cycles on the watch.
Comments
It's quite obvious you don't own one yet.
Your posts on this may have a little more credibility if you experienced owning one. I am not saying that you should. But rather, arguing with someone about, say, a movie they have not seen or a restaurant they have not been to or a car they have not driven or (you get the idea) is somewhat pointless, no?
It's rather weird -- and just one data point -- how my experience was the exact opposite: the Apple Store about an hour away fom where I live had a PACKED AppleWatch display table. Given that it was just a display case, all you could really do was look at it. There was separate set of areas where you could play with one, and those were all busy too.
In fact, the New MacBook (he didn't seem to know that there is no 12" Pro, btw) table was empty! Other than to hold it up and to look at the screen quality, there as not much else you could with it.
are you serious? you just cited three sickly markets.
feature phones are in sharp decline. one day not far from now all phones will be smartphones.
Point and shoots were decimated by smartphones. iPhone is the #1 camera on flickr.
PC sales have been stalling, even while mobile devices are climbing.
...if that's your evidence then watch companies should be very afraid.
cool story, bro.
and how many people are buying pocket watches like your grandfather's today?
the answer is why they have reason to be afraid.
(Addendum: a closeup of the Rolex watch face shows on it the legend - "Superlative Chronograph." I can appreciate that. It does what you've always expected from a Rolex. It keeps highly accurate time. But is this a unique selling point anymore? Does it keep any more accurate time than a device linked to a universal time source?)
Interesting. A picture would have been helpful. Where was this? Or rather, which store in London? (Just kidding.)
It was in Australia not the UK.
I think the problem is they need to let people play with them more. They're trying to sell it like a traditional watch, under a display case which the sales assistant takes it out of for you. That works great for traditional watches, because you already know what it does, you just need a few moments to feel the weight of it, and gauge the quality in your hand. But the Apple Watch doesn't have just one feature which everyone already knows, it has lots of features, so people need to play with it. It should be sold more like an iPhone that a traditional watch. This whole idea that "It's a whole new product and we have to do everything differently (from a sales perspective)," is wrong, they should have kept doing what they were doing.
I'd counter Apple's Watch with the fact that you don't need to charge a mechanical watch every night using electricity you have to pay for, making the mechanical watch the more technologically advanced time piece. And the fact that my grandfathers watch is something that can be passed down generation after generation and not need to worry about the software being obsolete sets it apart from the yearly replace cycle Apple creates.
Sure, the mechanical watch might need a new spring mechanism every 50 years or so, but that is it. Even the Sieko automatic I wear every day and have for the past decade has required nothing more than the occasional cleaning (by me) and it has kept perfect time since the day I got it.
I'm not bashing the Watch, and will likely get one at some point, but the Swiss do not need to worry about the Watch doing anything other than bringing more awareness to the whole watch industry. I would also suggest that Apple may inadvertently grow the Swiss watch market, as interest in watches and the marketing around them goes up.
Are the people arguing against me owners of automatic/mechanical watches? You should ask them that as well.
LOL! I think for most people the electricity you use to charge/power the watch can be thought of as negligible. A quick google search shows that it costs roughly 40 cents per year to power the iPhone 5! The Apple Watch battery is much smaller than the battery in the iPhone 5 and my estimate would be that it costs less than 25 cents per YEAR to power it. Hardly a justification to choose a mechanical watch instead...lol!
The CHF (swiss franc) has never been that strong... so it goes to say, Apple prices are not a problem really...
Apple hardware has a very strong penetration in the country, just grab a train or walk in town, you'll see iPhone and iPads anywhere...
If they really do not sell, it doesn't show. And if it is true, then it's not because of the national currency....
Cheers
Hey guys. As a Swiss citizen, there's something that need a correction in that articles. Swiss currency has never been that strong (as far as I can remember) so it most certainly does not follow the USD and Euro. Blaming the currency for Apple product not selling is not possible... Moreover, just take a train or walk around town, you'll see that Apple products are selling quite well in our country.
Anway, just to correct it a bit. Because that statement in the article seems all wrong.
LOL! Seriously? Do you really believe that?
I think that's it's far easier to acquire fashion know-how than it is to acquire technology that would rival what's inside iOS and you're smart enough to know that...what gives? Trolling?
Well - you specifically called out - as one of your points - that the watch used "electricity that you have to pay for". So some people may have walked away from your post thinking that the electricity might be a significant expense. I don't agree with your conclusions either - but at least they are based on valid opinions. The electricity angle was weak and I wanted to make sure that nobody was misled by it.
what on earth are you talking about? right next to those cases are interactive demo units -- an AW attached to an iPad that shows information about the screen youre currently on. you can play with them to your heart's content to try out all the features -- without any assistance whatsoever. just like the demo iPhones.
are you making things up?
mechanical watches require regular maintenance as they go out of true.
not-requiring electrical charging doesn't make a mechanical watch more technologically advanced. the opposite is true -- the modern car is more advanced than your kid's bigwheel, despite its reliance on petro *and* a charged battery.
i also doubt we'll see annual upgrade cycles on the watch.