Google's Chromebooks continue to make inroads in education, Gartner says

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  • Reply 41 of 62
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    genovelle wrote: »

    It's a gateway to tracking my child.  NOTHING IS FREE OR CHEAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    No it's not, their aren't even ads on Google Search when using a educational ChromeBook. Students login into their ChromeBook using an ID number that is registered to the School or as a guest, Google has no idea who is using the ChromeBook, just that someone from the school is. Like the miss notion that you can't use a ChromeBook offline, this is another one that could have been easily debunked by doing some simple research.
  • Reply 42 of 62
    adamwadamw Posts: 114guest

    Chromebooks in my opinion have their place and usefulness. They work well for multiple users using the same computer, such as in schools. They seem fairly good at preventing viruses and malware to be installed. They often are much cheaper in price than Macs or Windows PCs. For web browsing for students, they work rather well.

  • Reply 43 of 62
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    bageljoey wrote: »
    Unfortunately, I don't doubt this at all. The district where I teach, after dabbling with iPads has gone all in with Chromebooks. We will soon be 1 on 1--my school will be next year. I think it is 90% cost and keyboard pushing the decision. Google docs integration is maybe the last 10%...

    I can't stand them, and there still is NO print option--students have to save to docs and then open the doc on a PC in the Media Center to print. Currently at least 10% of the Chromebooks are out for repair--and this is their first year! They are supposed to last at least 2 more years!

    Still, the district my kids are in is going there too. My kids love them and Google definitely picks up some cool factor in their eyes. They still want MacBooks, though. Gotta play Minecraft...

    There is a print function, you just need a Google Print enabled printer or a little Google Print dongle. Children are also very hard on computer equipment, 10% sounds to high though unless their using a very cheap model. My daughters school uses the HP G3 14's, their built like tanks, might cost a little more but they'll last a whole lot longer. Lenovo, Toshiba and Dell are also good options, if the schools buy either Acer or Asus because of costs than their just asking for trouble. Same thing goes with any laptop, so as there's many different models of Chromebook you can't simply say, "I thought Chromebooks were meant to last more than 2 years", they are, if you buy a decent one.
  • Reply 44 of 62
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,476member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post





    Sorry, I completely missed this. There are actually quite a few apps that you can use to record/stream video, here are some of my favorites,



    Screencastify

    TechSmith's Snagit app and extension combo

    ClipChamp

    MediaCore Capture

     

    I'm talking about actually creating a web application (using standard HTML + JavaScript) which can do this.  Obviously if you use Flash or Java it's possible, but then you're limiting your web app to only working on desktop computers.  AFAICT, there are no standard, cross-platform, web technologies which can do it. This is why I end up sticking with native application development: I always seem to run into limitations when I try to do things using web technologies.

  • Reply 45 of 62
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,278member
    freerange wrote: »
    remind me not to send my kids there...

    So what are you going to do when your school district eventually gets all Chromebook? Move? This is a good thing for school's. Spend $200 on one device or spend $1000+. It's an easy decision.
  • Reply 46 of 62
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,278member
    genovelle wrote: »

    It's a gateway to tracking my child.  NOTHING IS FREE OR CHEAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    They don't track education. Not anymore than Apple would. So relax and take off the tin foil hat.
  • Reply 47 of 62
    fddshowfddshow Posts: 5member
    Gartner predicts that Chromebook growth will slow down in 2016; while shipments are forecast to increase by 27% this year, it anticipates worldwide growth of just 9% in 2016. In other words, they are in decline. Let's see a few facts:

    -Chrome books have been out since mid 2011. What else shipped in 2011, oh yeah windows phone. How is that doing? Let's see they shipped 8 million devices per quarter. Chromebooks? just over 7 million total this year. With growth forecasted to be single digits in 2016, they won't even match windows phone, which many consider too late to market and growing too slowly to matter.

    Sorry google. you're done. too little too late.
  • Reply 48 of 62
    pfisherpfisher Posts: 758member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by adamw View Post

     

    Chromebooks in my opinion have their place and usefulness. They work well for multiple users using the same computer, such as in schools. They seem fairly good at preventing viruses and malware to be installed. They often are much cheaper in price than Macs or Windows PCs. For web browsing for students, they work rather well.




    It's more than web browsing, as the posts here can confirm. A Chromebook can do pretty much anything a "regular" computer can do.

  • Reply 49 of 62
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    auxio wrote: »
    I'm talking about actually creating a web application (using standard HTML + JavaScript) which can do this.  Obviously if you use Flash or Java it's possible, but then you're limiting your web app to only working on desktop computers.  AFAICT, there are no standard, cross-platform, web technologies which can do it. This is why I end up sticking with native application development: I always seem to run into limitations when I try to do things using web technologies.

    Web technologies are getting better all the time and frankly I have yet to run into a wall where something couldn't be done. I miss understood what you were looking for originally, it's important to keep up to date with these new technologies. Study, study and than study somemore, because if you were up to date you would know about, getUserMedia(). Below is a link to get you started. Where there is a will, there will always be a way. Happy hacking.

    http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/getusermedia/intro/
  • Reply 50 of 62
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post





    Web technologies are getting better all the time and frankly I have yet to run into a wall where something couldn't be done. I miss understood what you were looking for originally, it's important to keep up to date with these new technologies. Study, study and than study somemore, because if you were up to date you would know about, getUserMedia(). Below is a link to get you started. Where there is a will, there will always be a way. Happy hacking.



    http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/getusermedia/intro/



    Yup, that's the exact page I found when I did my research.  HTML Media Capture can only take a single picture or record to a file (as stated on that page).  WebRTC (getUserMedia()) looks the most promising, but it's only supported by certain browsers (and limiting myself to Chrome isn't an option).  So again, currently still a wall for those of us who work cross-platform.

     

    Thinking ahead, what if I want to take advantage of the force touch trackpad on MacBooks (I've worked on drawing apps in the past)?  Guess I'll have to wait for a JavaScript API to be ratified for that too, then wait for all of the browsers to implement it.

     

    I've been down this path before with Java, where you can only use the lowest common denominator hardware on all the platforms it supports.  But at least there was an option to create a native library (JNI) so that you could take advantage of platform-specific technologies with a little legwork.  With web apps, there's no such option because you're trapped in the browser sandbox.

  • Reply 51 of 62
    copelandcopeland Posts: 298member

    Selling your students privacy for cheaper hardware is not a good decision in my mind.

  • Reply 52 of 62
    singularitysingularity Posts: 1,328member
    copeland wrote: »
    Selling your students privacy for cheaper hardware is not a good decision in my mind.
    who selling what?
  • Reply 53 of 62
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,380member
    copeland wrote: »
    Selling your students privacy for cheaper hardware is not a good decision in my mind.
    You're right. That's another good thing about Chromebooks for Education as they don't do that either.
  • Reply 54 of 62
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,754moderator
    gatorguy wrote: »
    copeland wrote: »
    Selling your students privacy for cheaper hardware is not a good decision in my mind.
    You're right. That's another good thing about Chromebooks for Education as they don't do that either.

    ... after they were sued and made to stop:

    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/may/01/google-stops-scanning-student-emails-california-lawsuit

    Advertising is the core of their business though and makes up 90% of their revenue and over 90% of their profit. Around 5% revenue is from Google Play and the rest hardware and services. The hardware side for them is very low margin if any. As a publicly traded company such low margin hardware can only be justified by tying it into their income-generating activity.

    Users don't have to be tracked directly. At the very least all they have to do is convince people that Chromebooks are great devices so they buy them for outside of education too and they can track people there. They can track DNS results with certain configurations. Just using Google search is enough and this is built into the URL bar. The default search can also be forced to stay as Google (likely the safe search) by whoever controls the laptops.

    The education environment is a small number of units just now, total students is about 90m in the US but they don't budget for a laptop for everyone. The following site lists a budget of about $3b:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/08/whats-the-best-device-for-interactive-learning/375567/

    That's about 10m $300 units and it looks like only 5.7m Chromebooks were sold worldwide last year and not all in education:

    http://www.dailytech.com/Chromebooks+Expected+to+See+Sales+Grow+26+Percent+to+73+Million+Units+This+Year/article37362.htm

    iPads sold about 67m last year. They noted some reasons for the switch to Chromebooks in the interactive learning link. Cost plays a significant role but Google can afford to go that low because they generate revenue from the user, even if it's indirectly. If Apple was to sell a $229 Chromebook equivalent with ARM, they'd have to sell it for about $349 and schools would still go for the cheaper Chromebook.

    In terms of management, this should be easy for Apple to compete with as they have tools for the Mac. A Mac server could manage iPads with a single OS image and preinstalled apps and sync it to iPads in the group via iCloud. Same with password management. It might still need a tech person for that but another thing they could do is have a master iPad that gets synced to others with apps/settings.

    The keyboard plays an important part in productivity and until they can make an efficient gesture input or inexpensive and high quality keyboard add-on, the laptop form factor will win for productivity.

    If Apple took the $899 Air, put in an ARM chip, cut RAM down to 1-2GB, storage to 64GB, they could probably hit $499. They'd just compile OS X for ARM and their core apps, perhaps limit multi-tasking to save memory and have it managed with some iCloud or IBM software. It could be exclusive to education because it would really cut into their Mac business otherwise.

    The best setup for students is the thin client model, which is what Chromebooks are really. Inexpensive hardware means there's not as much worry over theft or damage. It doesn't fit well with Apple's business model as it's about the hardware. The software side is more important for revenue for the likes of Google and Microsoft.
  • Reply 55 of 62
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,380member
    Marvin wrote: »
    ... after they were sued and made to stop:

    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/may/01/google-stops-scanning-student-emails-california-lawsuit

    Advertising is the core of their business though and makes up 90% of their revenue and over 90% of their profit. Around 5% revenue is from Google Play and the rest hardware and services. The hardware side for them is very low margin if any. As a publicly traded company such low margin hardware can only be justified by tying it into their income-generating activity.

    Users don't have to be tracked directly. At the very least all they have to do is convince people that Chromebooks are great devices so they buy them for outside of education too and they can track people there. They can track DNS results with certain configurations. Just using Google search is enough and this is built into the URL bar. The default search can also be forced to stay as Google (likely the safe search) by whoever controls the laptops.

    iPads sold about 67m last year. They noted some reasons for the switch to Chromebooks in the interactive learning link. Cost plays a significant role but Google can afford to go that low because they generate revenue from the user, even if it's indirectly. If Apple was to sell a $229 Chromebook equivalent with ARM, they'd have to sell it for about $349 and schools would still go for the cheaper Chromebook.

    The best setup for students is the thin client model, which is what Chromebooks are really. Inexpensive hardware means there's not as much worry over theft or damage. It doesn't fit well with Apple's business model as it's about the hardware. The software side is more important for revenue for the likes of Google and Microsoft.
    Doesn't Apple scan emails too just as most email providers do? Of course. It's been discussed here before with examples of instances in which Apple "read" emails. Even spell-checking an email or monitoring for malware requires automated "reading". In Google's case they weren't scanning to deliver ads as that was off by default, as you probably knew. Now why Google would have allowed administrators to override that is ridiculous IMO and it's great that they were called out for it, pushing them into removing the option entirely. If any school did change the setting to allow ad tracking it was incredibly poor judgment on their part. I'll agree completely with those that complained. Shouldn't have been there in the first place, tho Google certainly wouldn't be the first or last company to let their business plans get in the way of seeing clearly the right thing to do at all times. Not an excuse.

    Since you brought it up and out of curiosity Marvin what do you mean when you use the word "tracking"? What do you think Google knows about the real you, the real Marvin and is that information dangerous to have or pretty much ho-hum? They don't seem to know much about the real me based on my profile. FWIW I doubt they know anymore about "you". We're just small and fairly anonymous parts of bigger baskets aren't we?

    I think each of us sometimes use words meant to evoke an emotional reaction, 'tracking" being one of them that carries a highly negative connotation. I find credit bureaus, financial institutions, taxing authorities and insurance companies "tracking" to have much more potentially negative and life-affecting impact than an advertising companies. How can Google harm your life or family like Experian can? We all seem to accept their "tracking" without much complaint and it does factually change lives.

    IMO targeted ads are relatively mundane and incredibly common. Heck even privacy-evoking Apple is gaining an increasing appreciation for them and embracing the way they can be used to better Apple's bottom line. If that's what you consider egregious "tracking" I personally think your concern is overblown. Hardly anything evil IMHO, but yeah "think of the children" when doing so. Not that it really matters in reality since those under 30 seem to have little concern about it anyway, too willing to share every facet of their life (and their friends' lives too) with utter strangers on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat and the like for a moment's attention. It's guys like us that bother to look into it. and ponder over the effects. Few people really care enough to change their behavior even if they say they're concerned about "privacy". Actions don't follow the words.
  • Reply 56 of 62
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,754moderator
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Doesn't Apple scan emails too just as most email providers do? Of course.

    Not to build profiles to improve their ad business. Google's ad-targeting was off by default in education but the profiles can still be useful and who's auditing what they're doing? Apple has no incentive to monetize personal data, it's not part of their business model. They would setup ?Pay differently if it was.
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Since you brought it up and out of curiosity Marvin what do you mean when you use the word "tracking"? What do you think Google knows about the real you, the real Marvin and is that information dangerous to have or pretty much ho-hum? They don't seem to know much about the real me based on the profile they connect with "me". I doubt they know anymore about "you".

    I think each of us sometimes use words meant to evoke an emotional reaction, 'tracking" being one of them that carries a highly negative connotation. I find credit bureaus, financial institutions, taxing authorities and insurance companies "tracking" to have much more potentially negative and life-affecting impact than an advertising companies. How can Google harm your life or family like Experian can? We all seem to accept their "tracking" without much complaint and it does factually change lives.

    IMO targeted ads are relatively mundane and incredibly common. Heck even privacy-evoking Apple is gaining an increasing appreciation for them and embracing the way they can be used to better Apple's bottom line. If that's what you consider egregious "tracking" I personally think your concern is overblown. Hardly anything evil IMHO, but yeah "think of the children" when doing so. Not that it really matters in reality since those under 30 seem to have little concern about it anyway, too willing to share every facet of their life (and their friends' lives too) with utter strangers on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat and the like for a moment's attention. It's guys like us that bother to look into it. and ponder over the effects. Few people really care enough to change their behavior even if they say they're concerned about "privacy". Actions don't follow the words.

    I've never been all that concerned about ad-tracking but profiles clearly have some value when you see Google's earnings and not everyone likes being monetized from a profile. The other companies you mention for credit can be more harmful but it's less personal. Facebook knowing my relatives and friends isn't particularly harmful but it's pretty creepy. You just have to see the social experiments people have done where strangers go up to people and make out like they know them just from info they've put into their public social network to see how bothered they are by it. If they knew that their entire thought process that they assumed was private was mapped out over years, they'd probably be a little freaked out by it. The only reason they aren't is they don't know about it.

    Even though the profiles are anonymized, an anonymous profile would just need a single link to a Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram name and you can identify the profile. If you Google shoe size conversion or search for particular shoes on Amazon that have a particular ad and then stick something on your own Pinterest page, that anonymous profile knows you, your shoe preference and size. Google's public DNS server apparently gets 400 billion requests every day (that's pretty high considering there's only 7 billion people in the world):

    http://www.ecloudbuzz.com/top-5-best-free-public-dns-servers/
    https://www.dnsthingy.com/blog/2014/06/how-to-avoid-dns-based-profiling

    Here's what they store permanently:

    https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy

    URL trails are enough to identify all sorts of details. Look at the following case with just a retail store:

    http://techland.time.com/2012/02/17/how-target-knew-a-high-school-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-parents/
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits.html?_r=0

    "About a year after Pole created his pregnancy-prediction model, a man walked into a Target outside Minneapolis and demanded to see the manager. He was clutching coupons that had been sent to his daughter, and he was angry, according to an employee who participated in the conversation.

    “My daughter got this in the mail!” he said. “She’s still in high school, and you’re sending her coupons for baby clothes and cribs? Are you trying to encourage her to get pregnant?”

    The manager didn’t have any idea what the man was talking about. He looked at the mailer. Sure enough, it was addressed to the man’s daughter and contained advertisements for maternity clothing, nursery furniture and pictures of smiling infants. The manager apologized and then called a few days later to apologize again.

    On the phone, though, the father was somewhat abashed. “I had a talk with my daughter,” he said. “It turns out there’s been some activities in my house I haven’t been completely aware of. She’s due in August. I owe you an apology.""

    They didn't do anything particularly harmful to the family but it's invasive. Google is probably trustworthy with private info. When you see that their execs are getting high on drugs and sleeping with prostitutes:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mary-papenfuss/timothy-hayes-death-heroin_b_5627673.html

    they seem like the kind of people who would go out of their way to hide your search history. I suspect their real motto is 'don't be evil where anyone can see you'.

    Imagine if there came a day when all that DNS data leaked out though, that would be a fun day. Then we'd really see how much data they have, even on people in education.

    I would agree with you that it's not particularly harmful Google having profiles in terms of what they are likely to do with them in much the same way the NSA having profiles isn't but the data is invasive and some people don't feel comfortable with it.

    People are very vocal over the NSA keeping phone records (as if anyone says anything interesting over the phone) and yet billions of people willingly push data to Google and defend this because it means cheaper hardware. It doesn't have to be automatically labeled as something nefarious like tracking or profiling but people should be aware that companies like Google and Facebook make their money from effectively linking you to a product and that's how Google can give away Android, sell hardware with low margins, have free search, email, maps and how Facebook can be free.

    Most people are clearly willing to give up this info voluntarily regardless of which hardware they use so a Chromebook doesn't necessarily make things significantly worse but if Google actually detailed every piece of information they have on their servers about someone on request, I'm pretty sure they'd think twice about which products and services to buy and use. It's not just because of Google either, it's any web-connected platform:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/12/technology/learning-apps-outstrip-school-oversight-and-student-privacy-is-among-the-risks.html

    Heavily server-based platforms are going to be worse for privacy than curriculums that are vetted for offline use and where data can be knowingly stored locally at all times.
  • Reply 57 of 62
    elehcdnelehcdn Posts: 385member
    relic wrote: »
    That's a huge misconception about ChromeBooks, quite a few apps for Chrome OS can be used offline. You can also install pretty much any every Android app that's available in the Play Store. I have MS Office for Android for instance. Also since I have a LTE enabled ChromeBook I hardly ever loose connection, when I fly I just use the planes network. I now use a Google Pixel as my main notebook, it's a fantastic machine.

    I don't get this post ... ChromeBooks work great offline, that is why mine is LTE-enabled for constant internet connection and why I pay for network access when on a plane ... So how exactly do you know about the offline capabilities when it appears you admit you use the device as a constantly connected device? And how are kids going to pay for constant LTE and transport-based wifi to get your same functionality?
  • Reply 58 of 62
    elehcdnelehcdn Posts: 385member
    Face it, the reasons that ChromeBooks are popular for school districts is because a) they are so cheap they are throwaway devices and b) they are so limited that they are easily administrated by school district IT people who are typically trained in large infra-structure with zero personalization.

    So what we are telling the kids is that the tools they are being given are designed to drain their personality and are great because they can be thrown away or lost with little consequences. I am not sure that these are the messages to be given to kids who should value education and innovation.
  • Reply 59 of 62
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    elehcdn wrote: »
    Face it, the reasons that ChromeBooks are popular for school districts is because a) they are so cheap they are throwaway devices and b) they are so limited that they are easily administrated by school district IT people who are typically trained in large infra-structure with zero personalization.

    So what we are telling the kids is that the tools they are being given are designed to drain their personality and are great because they can be thrown away or lost with little consequences. I am not sure that these are the messages to be given to kids who should value education and innovation.

    So the iPad would be better than. Believe it or not web apps will replace traditional installed desktop apps. Web apps have become very powerful and useful in the last two years and their isn't much you can't do online. Development, no problem, head over to Codenvy and see for yourself how powerful their cloud IDE is, music creation, try AudioTool and than try and tell me that's its not the coolest thing you've seen in a while, Office, MS Office is online and it's fantastic or if Microsoft doesn't float your boat, try Zoho. Schools aren't just using ChromeBooks because their cheap, the amount of educational materials online is vast and is growing at a faster rate than mobile apps. Teachers using point and click tools can create custom lesson plans, tests, study materials, homework in no time where as if they were to use an iPad would be confined to the apps parameters. The ChromeBook is actually a fantastic tool for schools, both of my children use them and I personally use a Google Pixel 2 for my programming needs. I think you should actually use one for a while before passing judgment.
  • Reply 60 of 62
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    elehcdn wrote: »
    I don't get this post ... ChromeBooks work great offline, that is why mine is LTE-enabled for constant internet connection and why I pay for network access when on a plane ... So how exactly do you know about the offline capabilities when it appears you admit you use the device as a constantly connected device? And how are kids going to pay for constant LTE and transport-based wifi to get your same functionality?

    Oh give me a break, I said I'm rarely offline but when I am there are plenty of apps that work offline and you can also install Android apps like MS Office. I also know about offline capabilities because I actually own one and am a uber geek who plays with her toys. I don't understand your question about kids, my children both have unlimited LTE, costs about 40 per child, maybe less I need to check
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