Apple's Cook speaks out against public, private data harvesting policies

2456

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 108
    Nice, Tim! Just curious if he stands with Rand Paul right now. ;). Maybe just one thing upon which those two might agree.

    Also - any reason why AI didn't capitalize "Constitution" or "God?" Both are proper nouns in the context they were used...referring to a specific constitution and a specific diety.
  • Reply 22 of 108
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,385member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    I'd love Cook to explain how iAds and ads in ITunes Radio is different.



    This passage is on Apple's privacy page. It specifically mentions using personal information to improve products, services and advertising.



    https://www.apple.com/privacy/privacy-policy/

    If Cook is really serious about this Apple should get rid of all advertising. No advertising in apps, or iTunes.

    I love how you pretend you just dug up some hidden info, when Tim Cook explicitly mentioned iAds in his open letter on privacy, and explains that. Quite the Sherlock Holmes you are. 

     

    Yeah, Apple should eliminate ALL advertising in apps, and **** over every develop who releases free apps, right? It may be "all or nothing" for you, but the real world doesn't work that way, and the fact that you can't even aknowledge there's a major difference between the approaches and philosphies of Apple and Google on privacy says a lot. 

  • Reply 23 of 108
    dabedabe Posts: 99member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    Actually Apple should be in the business of collecting data and analyzing it. They are incredibly far behind when it comes to machine learning/AI. But they've put themselves in a bind now with this dogmatic privacy approach and anything they try to do to improve services will be called into question if it involves any sort of data collection. If Apple really wants to put the screws to Google they HAVE to get better at big data. Spreading FUD about Google is not what Cook should be doing.



    What you've said here seems more like spreading FUD than anything we've heard from Tim Cook so far! 

  • Reply 24 of 108
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    slurpy wrote: »
    I love how you pretend you just dug up some hidden info, when Tim Cook explicitly mentioned iAds in his open letter on privacy, and explains that. Quite the Sherlock Holmes you are. 

    Yeah, Apple should eliminate ALL advertising in apps, and **** over every develop who releases free apps, right? It may be "all or nothing" for you, but the real world doesn't work that way, and the fact that you can't even aknowledge there's a major difference between the approaches and philosphies of Apple and Google on privacy says a lot. 

    Look if Tim Cook is going to allege that Google is scanning your photos to sell them off for advertising purposes then I'd like him to prove it. It drives me nuts when people spread FUD about Apple. No need for the CEO of Apple to engage in the same about the competition. Especially when Apple should be in the business of collecting/analyzing data to make services like Siri, spotlight, mail, maps and photos best in class. Tim Cook wants us to believe every company that collects data is doing so for nefarious purposes. I think that's disingenuous. Oh and I'm not sure if Cook checked but Google Photos on iOS has been rated by over 2,000 people and has received mostly 5 stars.
  • Reply 25 of 108
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    dabe wrote: »

    What you've said here seems more like spreading FUD than anything we've heard from Tim Cook so far! 

    What FUD am I spreading? That Apple is woefully behind when it comes to cloud services/machine learning/AI? Or do you think that's not important? I want Apple to kick Google's ass in what Google does best. Apple wants to create the ultimate lock-in? Make its services best in class like its hardware is.
  • Reply 26 of 108
    elmoofoelmoofo Posts: 100member
    The entire last season of Parks and Recreation lampooned the Google of the future, and it was creepy scary accurate.
  • Reply 27 of 108
    nairbnairb Posts: 253member

    If Cook and Apple were serious about privacy they would pass a policy against using any personal data for App Store apps, but I can't see that happen.

     

    But at least we now know the rumours about an Apple answer to Google Now are not true.

  • Reply 28 of 108
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,352member
    elmoofo wrote: »
    The entire last season of Parks and Recreation lampooned the Google of the future, and it was creepy scary accurate.
    Wow... You've been to the future! Cool! Did you pay attention to the lotto numbers? :D
  • Reply 29 of 108
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    nairb wrote: »
    If Cook and Apple were serious about privacy they would pass a policy against using any personal data for App Store apps, but I can't see that happen.

    But at least we now know the rumours about an Apple answer to Google Now are not true.

    9to5Mac had an extensive report on this. Apple is definitely working on something. It all comes down to when they feel it's good enough to release. Apple should be using data to make their services better. Especially if they feel this strongly about Google....make competing products that are just as good so iOS and Mac users have no reason to use Google services.

    Philip Elmer-Dewitt said it best:
    Still, I have to believe that Apple’s best response to Google Photos is not to make a speech, but to make a better product.
  • Reply 30 of 108
    nairbnairb Posts: 253member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    9to5Mac had an extensive report on this. Apple is definitely working on something. It all comes down to when they feel it's good enough to release. Apple should be using data to make their services better. Especially if they feel this strongly about Google....make competing products that are just as good so iOS and Mac users have no reason to use Google services.



    Philip Elmer-Dewitt said it best:

    So they are making money by collecting and using customer  data to make products better so that they can stop companies collecting and using customer data. That makes sense. 

  • Reply 31 of 108
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    sog35 wrote: »
    I think you should join an Android forum. Birds of a feather.

    Look I use very few Google services. I don't use Google Photos. But if Cook is going to allege that Google sells your photos to advertisers he better be able to back it up. And do what PED said, don't talk, make a better product so people won't want to use Google's product.
  • Reply 32 of 108
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    sog35 wrote: »
    From a pure investor point of view I agree. Apple needs to get it hands dirty.

    But from a consumer point of view I like Apple stance on privacy.

    I don't. I think machine learning/AI is a BIG deal. I think cloud services are a BIG deal. It's impossible to provide best in class services in those areas without having vast amounts of data. There's nothing wrong with collecting and analyzing vast amounts of data. It's what you do with the data that matters. If Apple uses it to provide better services then collect and analyze away. They can do it in a way that still protects your privacy. And with things like photos they could have it be completely opt-in. If you want a better photo management system let us analyze your photos; if privacy trumps that then don't opt-in.
  • Reply 33 of 108
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    rogifan wrote: »
    Apple says it uses personal information to improve advertising. What exactly does that mean? Sorry I don't have issues with Google that everyone else does. I don't use their services outside of search and maps but I've never had my personal data compromised. At most when I go to a certain website it will show me an ad for something I recently searched, like a pair of shoes. Big deal.

    Obviously Tim Cook can take this stance because Apple makes money off selling hardware. But that was always Apple's business model. It wasn't like they switched to it to protect your privacy. It's like when Jeff Bezos took a swipe at Apple by saying Amazon only wants to make money when you use their product, not when you buy them. Well no shit as Amazon is all about Prime subscriptions p, not making money off selling hardware. All these executives portray their business models as being the most altruistic.

    Apple doesn't scan your email, your search history, your social media posts, or your photos for data. There is the difference.
    k2kw wrote: »
    If google is so bad why did Apple make google the default search engine back when the iPhone first came out (it was on my iphone4 least ways). Why does Apple give an option for a search engine including bing and google. Why did Apple let google has a Map app as a default?

    Cook is only singing this song, because google released android.

    Personally I'm happy with some effective monopolies on the internet/computers-Google with search and mapping, Facebook for social, Microsoft for business APPS, and Apple for personal/consumer devices. I just don't want one of these companies taking too many pieces of the pie. It's kind of how people thought when Microsoft was pushing passport.

    Apple used Google data for Maps and when Google wanted more info in exchange for updated features, Apple brought out Apple Maps.
  • Reply 34 of 108
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,352member
    jungmark wrote: »
    Apple used Google data for Maps and when Google wanted more info in exchange for updated features, Apple brought out Apple Maps.
    They were bringing out Apple Maps anyway. They started the development at least as far back as 2009 when they bought out PlaceBase. Didn't matter what Google did or didn't do or want, Apple was replacing a partner providing a 3rd party service. Not the first or last time they'll do so.
  • Reply 35 of 108
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,074member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    Look I use very few Google services. I don't use Google Photos. But if Cook is going to allege that Google sells your photos to advertisers he better be able to back it up. And do what PED said, don't talk, make a better product so people won't want to use Google's product.

     

    You actually think that anyone needs to back it up when that say that Google will sell your personal info to advertisers? 90% of Google revenue depends on that. 

     

    Selling your photos to advertisers, that are stored with Google, is not how Google works. (Though by the wording in the EULA, it sounds like they could if they want.) Google will scan your photos for data. If they see that you take trips to Europe or go on a cruise every year, they will use that data to sell advertising to travel agencies at a premium, because you are a target audience. The same way they read all your G-mail for any data that will make you a target audience for their advertisers. The same way they keep a record of all your searches, when using Google search. The same way they scan all your Google Map searches, to sell advertising to advertisers based on the places they know you like to visit. The same way they will use the data from using Google Pay or Wallet(or what ever it's called now). Not only that, Google knows who you are and have a file on you. And all the data they have on you is compiled in your file and them data mined even further to retrieve even more data. To Google, you are not anonymous, though you remain anonymous to their customers. And you are not their customer that they serve, you are their product that they sell.  

     

    For me, things like maps, searches and charges aren't too big a deal in term of personal information. (Besides actual credit info on charges.) But my emails and photos are another story. I don't want to have second thoughts about taking any photos or mentioning anything in an email because I know someone will be scanning them and any useful data they retrieve will be linked back to me in the form of advertising.  It's the same reason why I don't make any terrorist threats in an email, even jokingly. I know the NSA, FBI, CIA, etc. are scanning all emails. But I would really be pissed if the FBI started sending me ads, based on what they read in my emails, because they needed extra money to fund their spy planes.  

  • Reply 36 of 108
    waterrocketswaterrockets Posts: 1,231member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post





    I think you should join an Android forum. Birds of a feather.

     

    Much easier than arguing the valid points, right?

     

    The point is that there is hypocrisy in Cooks statements. He's right, in general, and I believe his intentions. Apple's actions lie somewhere between the statements and where Google is. Rogifan makes the point that they could clear that up by taking some action.

  • Reply 37 of 108
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,352member
    davidw wrote: »
    You actually think that anyone needs to back it up when that say that Google will sell your personal info to advertisers? 90% of Google revenue depends on that
    Zero percent of Google's revenue depends on that. It doesn't happen.
    https://privacy.google.com/about-ads.html
    davidw wrote: »
    Google will scan your photos for data. If they see that you take trips to Europe or go on a cruise every year, they will use that data to sell advertising to travel agencies at a premium, because you are a target audience..  
    Doesn't anyone do any research anymore before making accusations? Google plainly and clearly said NO DATA LEAVES THE PHOTOS APP. Anything machine-scanned there remains within Photos and does not get used for any advertising, data mining or monetization efforts connected with your private photos. They don't even try to put faces with identities unlike Facebook and now Microsoft. Sure they have the capabilities to, but they don't. If it changes we'll all know about it too. Nothing much Google-related gets missed here or elsewhere for that matter.

    Repeat for those that didn't get it the first time:
    - Google does not sell your personal information.
    - Google is not data-mining your uploaded and PRIVATE photos.
    - Google is not taking anything learned from your Photos to serve ads, nor even adding to your profile anonymized or otherwise.
    - Google is not selling your photos nor using them in ads. (despite what Tim Cook implied)
    - Google is not using your photos for financial benefit.
  • Reply 38 of 108
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,295member
    dabe wrote: »

    I'd love it if Rogifan would explain exactly how it's all the same.

    iAds, which runs inside iOS apps and on iTunes Radio. The ads enable companies to target customers by cross-referencing their email addresses and phone numbers anonymously against other data obtained by marketers.
  • Reply 39 of 108

    Hey Google, scan this!

  • Reply 40 of 108
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Much easier than arguing the valid points, right?

    The point is that there is hypocrisy in Cooks statements. He's right, in general, and I believe his intentions. Apple's actions lie somewhere between the statements and where Google is. Rogifan makes the point that they could clear that up by taking some action.

    Instead of going after Google and Facebook perhaps Cook should be going after consumers who seem quite willing to give up some privacy or deal with ads in order to not have to pay for services. It's not like Larry Page or Mark Zuckerberg woke up one morning and said 'I think I'll start a company that mines users data to sell advertising'. But how successful would Facebook be if you had to pay to use it? Moblie ads are a necessary evil in an age when people want everything for free.
Sign In or Register to comment.