I want GAYS to RESPECT the religious beliefs of individuals, and religious institutions.
The constitution doesn't work that way. There is in fact no reciprocity in this arrangement. The bill of rights + 14th amendment restricts what the government can do, not what private people can do. There is no requirement that private citizens treat everyone equally. You might be glad to learn wife can in fact treat you differently than the cable dude, if she wants. The same is true for 1st amendment rights. Your boss can fire you if he doesn't like what you say.
Please expect that the degree to which individuals and institutions will receive respect from private citizens will pretty much mirror the degree to whichthey are not plainly ridiculous.
I agree, except as a Libertarian I believe government involvement in any consensual agreement/arrangement is anti-freedom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
I thought marriage was a states right?
Regardless let's move on.
There are certain federal matters that are tied to it, so it's awkward at the state level. It can affect a lot weird things that you wouldn't immediately think of as being related to marriage (eg visitation rights if one person is in the hospital may or may not be honored).
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoshop59
I want GAYS to RESPECT the religious beliefs of individuals, and religious institutions.
You can't appease all religions, and it's a terrible basis for legislation. Also the idea of marriage as a Christian rite is only a couple centuries old.
In case you didn't hear, Google banned advertising of Confederate flag. Why aren't you complaining about google which is everywhere?
I am not complaining. I just feel that public companies should be careful in becoming too political. That would include Google. For one thing, these are multinational entities. Apple, in particular, sells more to countries outside of the U.S. Should it be taking stands that might offend many of its clients or should it be adopting the morality of the American people? The rest of the world does not consider the definition of marriage in quite the same way the the U.S. does. I am not sure just how far company executives should go in pursuing their own beliefs while representing the company. It's pretty brave of Cook to go as far as he has. Whether or not it's appropriate is another matter.
I am not complaining. I just feel that public companies should be careful in becoming too political. That would include Google. For one thing, these are multinational entities. Apple, in particular, sells more to countries outside of the U.S. Should it be taking stands that might offend many of its clients or should it be adadopting the morality of the American people?opting the morality of the American people? The rest of the world does not consider the definition of marriage in quite the same way the the U.S. does. I am not sure just how far company executives should go in pursuing their own beliefs while representing the company. It's pretty brave of Cook to go as far as he has. Whether or not it's appropriate is another matter.
Oh, and couldn't have Cook come up with something else than rehashing the "Crazy Ones"?
Because 30 years ago gay people could not dream that this day would ever come. Many people in our society considered gay people degenerate, evil, or mentally ill. People went to prison for being gay as they do in oppressive nations like China, Russia and Iran. I cannot think of a better choice for the occasion than the "Crazy ones" for this win for equality.
I am not complaining. I just feel that public companies should be careful in becoming too political. That would include Google. For one thing, these are multinational entities. Apple, in particular, sells more to countries outside of the U.S. Should it be taking stands that might offend many of its clients or should it be adopting the morality of the American people? The rest of the world does not consider the definition of marriage in quite the same way the the U.S. does. I am not sure just how far company executives should go in pursuing their own beliefs while representing the company. It's pretty brave of Cook to go as far as he has. Whether or not it's appropriate is another matter.
So companies like Apple should sink to the level of the most oppress nations like Iran and Russia? China and their messed up government has no problem with their citizens buying iPhones and Apple's support of a progressive ideology.
In case you didn't hear, Google banned advertising of Confederate flag. Why aren't you complaining about google which is everywhere?
I am not complaining. I just feel that public companies should be careful in becoming too political. That would include Google. For one thing, these are multinational entities. Apple, in particular, sells more to countries outside of the U.S. Should it be taking stands that might offend many of its clients or should it be adopting the morality of the American people? The rest of the world does not consider the definition of marriage in quite the same way the the U.S. does. I am not sure just how far company executives should go in pursuing their own beliefs while representing the company. It's pretty brave of Cook to go as far as he has. Whether or not it's appropriate is another matter.
I think you raise some interesting points. We all should be concerned about overreach of corporate power, for sure, and corporate involvement in social and political issues.
What appears to set these moves apart is that the corporations are wading into a set of issues to further social equality, and there seems to be no immediate or apparent profit benefit to their doing this.
I think you raise some interesting points. We all should be concerned about overreach of corporate power, for sure, and corporate involvement in social and political issues.
What appears to set these moves apart is that the corporations are wading into a set of issues to further social equality, and there seems to be no immediate or apparent profit benefit to their doing this.
This is a civil rights issue, not a political one. Corporations should take a stance on issues like this, regardless of profits. Also, in the case of same sex marriage, what do you mean there is no profit benefit? Same sex marriage is a popular concept and many people will align themselves with companies that celebrate same sex marriage.
Apple has been championing gay rights for a while now and business is booming.
You also have to bare in mind that the so called Christians opposed to this, will still buy their vanity token iPhones and MacBooks, go to their mega churches in their Mercedes SUVs, while children die of starvation and malaria in Africa.
This is a civil rights issue, not a political one. Corporations should take a stance on issues like this, regardless of profits. Also, in the case of same sex marriage, what do you mean there is no profit benefit? Same sex marriage is a popular concept and many people will align themselves with companies that celebrate same sex marriage.
Apple has been championing gay rights for a while now and business is booming.
You also have to bare in mind that the so called Christians opposed to this, will still buy their vanity token iPhones and MacBooks, go to their mega churches in their Mercedes SUVs, while children die of starvation and malaria in Africa.
If all of Apple's competitors are for it -- as I am sure they are -- it offers no competitive advantage whatsoever to Apple.
As to your point about 'Christians' that's pure nonsense.
I laughed when I read your first post in this thread, because I knew you were lying, and planned to obsessively refresh this thread even after your statement of "this is my only post". How pathetic. No doubt, that one will not be your last either.
If AI deleted posts, and I assume they were so nasty they deserved to be deleted. They have a right to do so.
It's quite simple really. The large cities especially those on the coast is where all the large corporations are and large corporations have the highest salaries which attract the most educated employees. Highly educated people tend to be less religious and more liberal.
I think it's a little more basic than that. Greater diversity means greater opportunity for mate selection and better hunting (for money).
I suspect people with deeply held religious beliefs will either sue for them to receive equal protection or shut down their business.
No, they'll get over it just like they did with integration or with laws that require them not to discriminate in their business with people of other religions. It's a completely hypocritical argument anyway, because they do business with people who violate other precepts of their religion, such as those who use birth control, have pre-marital sex, commit adultery, don't honor the sabbath, steal, etc.
I'm old enough to remember when people made religious arguments against mixed marriages. This is pretty much the same thing.
Cook thinks he owns Apple. He might find that the shareholders are tired of his political antics and vote to replace him with a business professional.
Tim Cook is delivering record profits for the business. I doubt even the most conservative of shareholders is going to oust him while he's making them fistfuls of money.
If all of Apple's competitors are for it -- as I am sure they are -- it offers no competitive advantage whatsoever to Apple.
As to your point about 'Christians' that's pure nonsense.
So you think Apple should be the only tech giant not to celebrate same sex marriage? This hugely popular thing, that at the very least the core of the company believes in, should be ignored? Now that would be bad for business.
As for the 'Christians' thing, you're right, it is nonsense to try to spread the teachings of Jesus and yet ignore them at the same time and yet that's what happens. Bizzare.
From a European perspective it's really weird how you Americans, mix up everything and call it political. This is a human rights issue, not a political one. Just as climate change is an environmental and scientific issue, not a political one. I guess this polarisation is the result of your politics system with only 2 parties. It's beyond me how this can ever work as you can never have just two opposing views on every matter in the world. (Especially if those two views are right and far right.)
Good for Apple for taking a stance in important social and environmental issues. As companies have more power than governments nowadays, it's good to see that they are interested in more than just selling goods.
From a European perspective it's really weird how you Americans, mix up everything and call it political. This is a human rights issue, not a political one. Just as climate change is an environmental and scientific issue, not a political one. I guess this polarisation is the result of your politics system with only 2 parties. It's beyond me how this can ever work as you can never have just two opposing views on every matter in the world. (Especially if those two views are right and far right.)
Good for Apple for taking a stance in important social and environmental issues. As companies have more power than governments nowadays, it's good to see that they are interested in more than just selling goods.
Please. Everything is political. Everything! As a European you should be even more cognizant of this fact.
So you think Apple should be the only tech giant not to celebrate same sex marriage? This hugely popular thing, that at the very least the core of the company believes in, should be ignored? Now that would be bad for business.
As for the 'Christians' thing, you're right, it is nonsense to try to spread the teachings of Jesus and yet ignore them at the same time and yet that's what happens. Bizzare.
No, I don't think that. That is an issue of your reading comprehension that I honestly cannot solve.
And your ridiculous generalizations about 'Christians' continues to be pure nonsense. Bigoted, in fact.
From a European perspective it's really weird how you Americans, mix up everything and call it political. This is a human rights issue, not a political one. Just as climate change is an environmental and scientific issue, not a political one. I guess this polarisation is the result of your politics system with only 2 parties. It's beyond me how this can ever work as you can never have just two opposing views on every matter in the world. (Especially if those two views are right and far right.)
Give me a break. Last I looked, you guys can't agree on Greece, illegal boat immigrants, Polish plumbers, whether Britain should stay or go, integration of northern African Muslims, Putin, free speech, government surveillance, the welfare state.... Want me to go on with other politicized issues in Europe?
Comments
I want GAYS to RESPECT the religious beliefs of individuals, and religious institutions.
The constitution doesn't work that way. There is in fact no reciprocity in this arrangement. The bill of rights + 14th amendment restricts what the government can do, not what private people can do. There is no requirement that private citizens treat everyone equally. You might be glad to learn wife can in fact treat you differently than the cable dude, if she wants. The same is true for 1st amendment rights. Your boss can fire you if he doesn't like what you say.
Please expect that the degree to which individuals and institutions will receive respect from private citizens will pretty much mirror the degree to which they are not plainly ridiculous.
I agree, except as a Libertarian I believe government involvement in any consensual agreement/arrangement is anti-freedom.
I thought marriage was a states right?
Regardless let's move on.
There are certain federal matters that are tied to it, so it's awkward at the state level. It can affect a lot weird things that you wouldn't immediately think of as being related to marriage (eg visitation rights if one person is in the hospital may or may not be honored).
I want GAYS to RESPECT the religious beliefs of individuals, and religious institutions.
You can't appease all religions, and it's a terrible basis for legislation. Also the idea of marriage as a Christian rite is only a couple centuries old.
I am not complaining. I just feel that public companies should be careful in becoming too political. That would include Google. For one thing, these are multinational entities. Apple, in particular, sells more to countries outside of the U.S. Should it be taking stands that might offend many of its clients or should it be adopting the morality of the American people? The rest of the world does not consider the definition of marriage in quite the same way the the U.S. does. I am not sure just how far company executives should go in pursuing their own beliefs while representing the company. It's pretty brave of Cook to go as far as he has. Whether or not it's appropriate is another matter.
You must be joking?!
Please spare us!
Oh, and couldn't have Cook come up with something else than rehashing the "Crazy Ones"?
Because 30 years ago gay people could not dream that this day would ever come. Many people in our society considered gay people degenerate, evil, or mentally ill. People went to prison for being gay as they do in oppressive nations like China, Russia and Iran. I cannot think of a better choice for the occasion than the "Crazy ones" for this win for equality.
I am not complaining. I just feel that public companies should be careful in becoming too political. That would include Google. For one thing, these are multinational entities. Apple, in particular, sells more to countries outside of the U.S. Should it be taking stands that might offend many of its clients or should it be adopting the morality of the American people? The rest of the world does not consider the definition of marriage in quite the same way the the U.S. does. I am not sure just how far company executives should go in pursuing their own beliefs while representing the company. It's pretty brave of Cook to go as far as he has. Whether or not it's appropriate is another matter.
So companies like Apple should sink to the level of the most oppress nations like Iran and Russia? China and their messed up government has no problem with their citizens buying iPhones and Apple's support of a progressive ideology.
I think you raise some interesting points. We all should be concerned about overreach of corporate power, for sure, and corporate involvement in social and political issues.
What appears to set these moves apart is that the corporations are wading into a set of issues to further social equality, and there seems to be no immediate or apparent profit benefit to their doing this.
I think you raise some interesting points. We all should be concerned about overreach of corporate power, for sure, and corporate involvement in social and political issues.
What appears to set these moves apart is that the corporations are wading into a set of issues to further social equality, and there seems to be no immediate or apparent profit benefit to their doing this.
This is a civil rights issue, not a political one. Corporations should take a stance on issues like this, regardless of profits. Also, in the case of same sex marriage, what do you mean there is no profit benefit? Same sex marriage is a popular concept and many people will align themselves with companies that celebrate same sex marriage.
Apple has been championing gay rights for a while now and business is booming.
You also have to bare in mind that the so called Christians opposed to this, will still buy their vanity token iPhones and MacBooks, go to their mega churches in their Mercedes SUVs, while children die of starvation and malaria in Africa.
If all of Apple's competitors are for it -- as I am sure they are -- it offers no competitive advantage whatsoever to Apple.
As to your point about 'Christians' that's pure nonsense.
Yeah, it was Roake, who lashed out.
It's OK, Roake, it gets better.
A lot of wealthy educated people in big cities as well, and they're liberal too.
More Jews maybe?
I suspect people with deeply held religious beliefs will either sue for them to receive equal protection or shut down their business.
No, they'll get over it just like they did with integration or with laws that require them not to discriminate in their business with people of other religions. It's a completely hypocritical argument anyway, because they do business with people who violate other precepts of their religion, such as those who use birth control, have pre-marital sex, commit adultery, don't honor the sabbath, steal, etc.
I'm old enough to remember when people made religious arguments against mixed marriages. This is pretty much the same thing.
Tim Cook is delivering record profits for the business. I doubt even the most conservative of shareholders is going to oust him while he's making them fistfuls of money.
So you think Apple should be the only tech giant not to celebrate same sex marriage? This hugely popular thing, that at the very least the core of the company believes in, should be ignored? Now that would be bad for business.
As for the 'Christians' thing, you're right, it is nonsense to try to spread the teachings of Jesus and yet ignore them at the same time and yet that's what happens. Bizzare.
From a European perspective it's really weird how you Americans, mix up everything and call it political. This is a human rights issue, not a political one. Just as climate change is an environmental and scientific issue, not a political one. I guess this polarisation is the result of your politics system with only 2 parties. It's beyond me how this can ever work as you can never have just two opposing views on every matter in the world. (Especially if those two views are right and far right.)
Good for Apple for taking a stance in important social and environmental issues. As companies have more power than governments nowadays, it's good to see that they are interested in more than just selling goods.
Please. Everything is political. Everything! As a European you should be even more cognizant of this fact.
No, I don't think that. That is an issue of your reading comprehension that I honestly cannot solve.
And your ridiculous generalizations about 'Christians' continues to be pure nonsense. Bigoted, in fact.
Give me a break. Last I looked, you guys can't agree on Greece, illegal boat immigrants, Polish plumbers, whether Britain should stay or go, integration of northern African Muslims, Putin, free speech, government surveillance, the welfare state.... Want me to go on with other politicized issues in Europe?