Do you not see how saying that one group of people are allowed to do something that another group of people can't do, based on "race", is a racist? it wasn't so sad I'd find it ironic.
The impact of words varies based on context. You can see this in a lot of different cases e.g certain people telling particular jokes, women using terms to refer to other women that wouldn't sound the same coming from men, different sexualities using words to define themselves.
If you are a member of the group being described by a term then it's not as likely to be used as an attack or for separation but rather a term of affinity as in 'we're the same'. You for example could never refer to yourself as n-word so it can never be used as a means of association but always as a means of describing people other than you. That's why it has a different meaning depending on who says it.
The word wigger has never been used to describe a race. It's a term to describe fake association with a race/culture. What was said above with it lending weight to the n-word is valid and it implies white people can't be a part of black music/culture so it will offend some people but the target group would be a small subset of white people, not black and AFAIK, white people aren't so offended by a term implying they are fakers that they expect that word shouldn't be used.
Oprah and Jay Z talked about the use of the n-word in rap and Oprah said no one should use it because of the historical weight it carried and Jay Z said the more it's used in something like rap music, that helps remove that weight from it:
Words can take on a different meaning with social change. Some just fall out of popular usage. The f-word for homosexual will fall out of usage. I suspect the n-word will live on in rap music and it does become problematic in that white people who like rap will want to repeat the lyrics. I don't think the resolution to that problem will be that it becomes ok for everyone to use whenever they want just like other terms used in rap. In most cases, it'll probably just end up similar to how boy bands sing songs for girls and when girls sing them, they just blank out lines where girls are the object of affection.
It leads to some interesting situations because you can see Kanye West in the Glastonbury video posted earlier saying the n-word repeatedly but he punched someone over it:
and Kim Kardashian told that person that his language wasn't appropriate. The person who was punched sued and they settled for $250k. But you can see the differences in context. One was clearly using that language as a means of attack and abuse, Kanye's own use of similar language is for bringing people together.
If you really want the issue resolved, I would suggest taking the side of condemning everyone for using it rather than trying to gain acceptance in everyone using it because it comes across like saying that you don't understand why straight people can't say f* to refer to gay people when some of them use it. Any motivation to use offensive terms that refer to groups that exclude yourself is going to be viewed as suspect.
Some African-Americans use the word "Nigga" not the n-word, and the context they use it in is not derogatory to them
1) So you're idiotic statement is that nigga in no way is a variation of the word nigger, and by extension white nigger in no way references the word nigger. How the **** can you make such a stupid statement and yet figure out how to sign up for this forum?
2) Once you start seeng past race you'll understand that a contextually derogatory statement affects everyone in a society. You think the string of letters is what's "evil" when that is the chance act though the evolution of language, not something that endures though all time and space. Words have no special powers unless you choose to make it so.
3) Let's be clear, you signed up to make a racist statement that there are words that can be said by one "race" but not other "races". How about letting go of this notion of race as being as absurd as organizing people by height, hair color, eye color, or anything else that is simply a variation of human variety?
Why would you like to perpetuate derogatory name
Says the guy who just wrote the word nigga and doesn't seem to comprehend the one make racial remarks without using any taboo words at all. Most commonly heard are terms like "those people" sometimes followed by some pseudo-science explanation as to why said "race" is inherently inferior. But, hey, so long as the word nigger is never written out but instead we use slightly altered terms like wigger, nigga, blacky, etc. it's perfectly acceptable in your mind to disparage an entire group of people based on some superficial trait. Aren't you considerate¡
That's my fuçking point! It's about context, not the certain letters of phonemes arranged in a particular order. Words can not be cursed.
The word wigger has never been used to describe a race. It's a term to describe fake association with a race/culture.
1) To restate, you don't think wigger is short for white nigger, so you can't see that nigger does refer race and therefore it's not offense to anyone. Fuçking brilliant¡
2) I get that Harry Potter has magic spells that need to be stated exactly in order to work properly. That's fuçking fiction and magic spells and prophecies have a long history of being exact or literal (see the stupid scene from Lord of the Rings where the creature can't be "killed by no man" but it's a woman in the armor so it can then be killed), but this is fuçking reality. If you get upset because the word nigger was used in a contextually neutral way but then don't get upset when someone disparages another group of people wth terms like "those people" or some other BS where the context is clear, then you're an idol and a hypocrite.
Oprah and Jay Z talked about the use of the n-word in rap and Oprah said no one should use it because of the historical weight it carried and Jay Z said the more it's used in something like rap music, that helps remove that weight from it:
Oprah perpetuates the issue by making a word taboo regardless of the context, and Jay Z also perpetuates it by not stating that it will continue to be a racially charged term until such time as we don't say "x can you use it because of the color of their skin, but y can't use it because of the color of their skin." The term will never become neutralized is if can't stop looking at the word and instead start looking at what is being stated.
^ A little less hostility might be in order? Not every discussion needs to be a fight.
The problem with white people using the n word is that it conjures up hundreds of years of history of white people using the n word, which can be a problem no matter what the context or intent of it is.
The problem with white people using the w word is... well there isn't one, the w word doesn't have that history. Yes, the w word uses the n word by proxy, but the meaning of it is very clear, it is not derogatory to black people, it is derogatory to the white people who are trying to emulate a certain black culture that has reclaimed the n word. That's why it's different, because of that context and clarity.
The problem with white people using the w word is... well there isn't one, the w word doesn't have that history.
How the **** do you think a derogatory usage begin and a term gets designated taboo in the first place?
Yes, the w word uses the n word by proxy, but the meaning of it is very clear, it is not derogatory to black people, it is derogatory to the white people who are trying to emulate a certain black culture that has reclaimed the n word.
Only if you are an idiot do you think that wigger in any way disparages those that the "N-word" is directed.
That's why it's different, because of that context and clarity.
Again, the context is the same, it's saying that at "white" person is acting like a "nigger". How the fuçk can you not see that as being harmful to those that wouldn't want to be called nigger? Because it's not directed at them on that occasion you think that it's fine? How the fuçk is that an argument from you? It's offensive because the context is offensive.
Here's a clip where a guy, a proclaimed minority denoting him as "brown", only uses the term "black" to describe people he innately doesn't trust or like because of the color of their skin. You're telling me that it's not racist because of that? Really?!
[VIDEO]
Here's another example of blatant racism: Oprah wasn't shown a bag a store in Switzerland but all the clerk said was that Oprah wouldn't be able to afford it. No use of any terms like black, nigga, or nigger, but you and others want to claim that it's not contextually racist until the "N-word" is stated?
^ Why are you bringing up these irrelevant examples of racist behaviour? Yes, they're racist, and they don't involve the n word. So what? No one is claiming that the n word is the source of all racism.
^ Why are you bringing up these irrelevant examples of racist behaviour? Yes, they're racist, and they don't involve the n word. So what? No one is claiming that the n word is the source of all racism.
There are many claims in this thread, even by you, that using terms like wigger and nigga are not racist. In my argument that context is everything — not a string of letters or arrangement of phonemes — I've taken that one step further to show that racism is entirely contextual with or without these "safe" words.
Perhaps one day you'll understand that racism isn't just wrong, but also entirely invented, and perhaps at that point you'll be able to see past this superficialness of racism to see that to disparage, condemn and/or isolate anyone on something as meaningless as skin color is irrational and wrong.
How the **** do you think a derogatory usage begin and a term gets designated taboo in the first place?
I confess I don't really understand the question. The w word is not especially taboo, in my experience, though it is certainly meant in a derogatory sense. But not every derogatory word is taboo, for example, "idiot", like you keep calling people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismY
Only if you are an idiot do you think that wigger in any way disparages those that the "N-word" is directed.
I don't really understand this either, but I think it might just be bad wording. The point is that the N word has two distinct uses, the "traditional" derogatory sense, and the modern reclaimed sense, that is also often associated with a certain rap/gangsta/thug (whatever you want to call it) culture. One is derogatory, and one (broadly) isn't, but white people using the N word because of the association of white people and the traditional sense means that there's a broad problem with them using it, even when they mean in the latter sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismY
Again, the context is the same, it's saying that at "white" person is acting like a "nigger". How the fuçk can you not see that as being harmful to those that wouldn't want to be called nigger? Because it's not directed at them on that occasion you think that it's fine? How the fuçk is that an argument from you? It's offensive because the context is offensive.
Since the W word is very directly and unambiguously a play on the latter meaning of the word, and is a distinctly different word, there is no really problem with either white or black people using it. The derogatory nature is entirely focussed on the target, which is the white person trying to emulate black culture (not a crime, but can be quite funny, and false).
There are many claims in this thread, even by you, that using terms like wigger and nigga are not racist. In my argument that context is everything — not a string of letters or arrangement of phonemes — I've taken that one step further to show that racism is entirely contextual with or without these "safe" words.
Perhaps one day you'll understand that racism isn't just wrong, but also entirely invented, and perhaps at that point you'll be able to see past this superficialness of racism to see that to disparage, condemn and/or isolate anyone on something as meaningless as skin color is irrational and wrong.
I... entirely agree with this (well, the second part anyway). If this is all you've been getting at then I genuinely have no idea why you've been cussing and insulting people all over the place. No one has really said anything different.
Since the W word is very directly and unambiguously a play on the latter meaning of the word, and is a distinctly different word, there is no really problem with either white or black people using it. The derogatory nature is entirely focussed on the target, which is the white person trying to emulate black culture (not a crime, but can be quite funny, and false).
1) You're writing "W word" now? Really?! Way to not understand anything.
2) So it's OK to be derogatory toward a "white person"? There is a word for making something acceptable for one group of people based on "race" and not another: racism.
3) So it's quite funny to call people wiggers or its quite funny that you would think people that identify with a culture as being white people emulating being niggers? How the fuçk can you not a problem with any of that? Culture ? race. In fact, there are no biological races, only this notion of race we've interwoven into culture, but it is not something that you have to perpetuate. You can choose to be better than than that.
Let me introduce myself, sir. For now, let's call me "Trump." I am first and foremost an individual with personal values, tastes, opinions and aspirations. I am confident and comfortable in who I am, but I do not consider myself better than anybody else as I too have had failures, yet I have also had my share of successes. I am living a human life, as you are.
My parents are Jamaican (with mixed backgrounds ranging from the Aztecs, even to the Scottish). I am considered a Caribbean-American. (America would rather call me African-American although our cultures are pretty different. We have had similar struggles, though. However, It's like saying all Asians look alike without realizing there are Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, etc. and even Indians with totally distinct cultures... Try saying that Spain, Russia, Germany, England and France are the same). I was born and raised in the United States. I recently graduated from college in an intense, hard-to-get-into program studying health. I'm not one to curse or use the n-word or any curse word for that matter. My mother curses more than I do and she doesn't curse often either. I used those words in that paragraph to help you understand a little, but you seem to be good at missing the point. It is very nice that you have exposed to me some of your character, though
Maybe you skimmed through what I wrote, but that's ok. Where in my writing have I said that those words are or are not variants of each other? I have made no mention of variation for you to even comment on it. I have even mentioned how the LGBT community changed the context of the "g" and "f" word as a term of endearment. Why haven't you asked, "why is it ok that the LGBT community can use the "g" and "f" word but we can't?" I have heard girls of different backgrounds call each other "sl*t" in a jokingly fashion constantly. Are they that word or act like they are that word? NO. However, I would NEVER DARE to call a girl that word, unless I want a slap.
I'll clap my hands for you, in that you mentioned context having importance in giving weight behind the word. And you are right, letters that form the word are not cursed in themselves... But try connecting the dots together. Context influences the word's meaning. If the context behind the word is negative... wouldn't the word itself have a negative resonance or ring to it?
Now, for you, let's break down the meaning of the word Curse. What do we find? "a cause of harm or misery", "an offensive word or phrase used to express anger or annoyance"... hmmm... Go back and read what I first wrote. Have you looked at the history and context of any of these derogatory words you so freely say? If so, then you would understand they are words of hate. The same hate that carelessly killed the Jews... The same hate that killed 10 million Indians in the new world... The same hate that lead the Japanese to massacre countless Chinese in Nanking (don't know if I spelled "Nanking" right)... The same hate that lead to slavery abuse of the blacks and Irish (you didn't know?) and the denial of human rights to our fellow man. The same hate that separates the rich from the poor.
People that used words such as the ones you have said in a derogatory fashion have done it as they beat a man, woman or child on their back, placed a person in a gas chamber, locked a person in chains of slavery, raped innocent women in Iraq, denied help and granted death favorably to a fellow human being.
You can choose to freely spew derogatory words, but so did the people filled with hateful fumes that wanted to see a whole group of people extinct. As I said before, you can either go with the crowd on certain issues or stand above it. I choose to stand above it, and I will not use those words, because they are in their ill-context, meant to curse. I don't care if it's the derogatory word for a certain culture, a certain gender or a person who has a different sexual preference. If you think words and their meanings are not powerful, you don't have to look far: People commit suicide over words.
So just to summarize. If you want to use the n-word, w-word or whatever ill-word, feel free. No one is stopping you. I'm not stopping you. As a man of higher standards and regards, I will not do it and this is my decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismY
1) So you're idiotic statement is that nigga in no way is a variation of the word nigger, and by extension white nigger in no way references the word nigger. How the **** can you make such a stupid statement and yet figure out how to sign up for this forum?
2) Once you start seeng past race you'll understand that a contextually derogatory statement affects everyone in a society. You think the string of letters is what's "evil" when that is the chance act though the evolution of language, not something that endures though all time and space. Words have no special powers unless you choose to make it so.
3) Let's be clear, you signed up to make a racist statement that there are words that can be said by one "race" but not other "races". How about letting go of this notion of race as being as absurd as organizing people by height, hair color, eye color, or anything else that is simply a variation of human variety?
Says the guy who just wrote the word nigga and doesn't seem to comprehend the one make racial remarks without using any taboo words at all. Most commonly heard are terms like "those people" sometimes followed by some pseudo-science explanation as to why said "race" is inherently inferior. But, hey, so long as the word nigger is never written out but instead we use slightly altered terms like wigger, nigga, blacky, etc. it's perfectly acceptable in your mind to disparage an entire group of people based on some superficial trait. Aren't you considerate¡
That's my fuçking point! It's about context, not the certain letters of phonemes arranged in a particular order. Words can not be cursed.
1) To restate, you don't think wigger is short for white nigger, so you can't see that nigger does refer race and therefore it's not offense to anyone. Fuçking brilliant¡
2) I get that Harry Potter has magic spells that need to be stated exactly in order to work properly. That's fuçking fiction and magic spells and prophecies have a long history of being exact or literal (see the stupid scene from Lord of the Rings where the creature can't be "killed by no man" but it's a woman in the armor so it can then be killed), but this is fuçking reality. If you get upset because the word nigger was used in a contextually neutral way but then don't get upset when someone disparages another group of people wth terms like "those people" or some other BS where the context is clear, then you're an idol and a hypocrite.
Oprah perpetuates the issue by making a word taboo regardless of the context, and Jay Z also perpetuates it by not stating that it will continue to be a racially charged term until such time as we don't say "x can you use it because of the color of their skin, but y can't use it because of the color of their skin." The term will never become neutralized is if can't stop looking at the word and instead start looking at what is being stated.
1) You're writing "W word" now? Really?! Way to not understand anything.
Err... I'm doing that mainly to be cute, but if it bothers you that much I'll stop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismY
2) So it's OK to be derogatory toward a "white person"? There is a word for making something acceptable for one group of people based on "race" and not another: racism.
Yes, it's ok. White people pretending to be part of black culture are not an oppressed minority. The black culture that we're talking about does exist, and the white people making out that they're gangsta do exist. The W word, sorry... "wigger" (not a word I actually use or care about), isn't actually all that derogatory, certainly not on the level that the N word... sorry, "nigger" is; it's more a playful taunt, connoting a level of falseness and pretense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismY
3) So it's quite funny to call people wiggers or its quite funny that you would think people that identify with a culture as being white people emulating being niggers? How the fuçk can you not a problem with any of that? Culture ? race. In fact, there are no biological races, only this notion of race we've interwoven into culture, but it is not something that you have to perpetuate. You can choose to be better than than that.
I've explained this twice already, but you don't seem to be getting it. "Nigger" has two meanings, one is the classic horrible sense. Everyone who counts hates that word and doesn't use it. But there is another word, it sounds the same, but let's spell it "nigga" just to textualise the difference. This is the reclaimed word, used in casual conversation with no derogatory undertone to mean "person", usually with black skin, though not necessarily. It also has become very identified with a certain black culture. The fact that the words sound the same means that there is a problem with white people using the word, because white people using the former word has a long and horrible history. However, "wigga" (with our revised spelling) does not have such a problem. If anyone though that "wigga" was "wigger" then that might be a problem, but it is very directly connected with the black culture, and not the black race. Yes, culture ? race, you;re quite right, which is precisely why this is a different thing.
I don't really have a problem with white people wanting to be, or being, part of black culture. Go for it. But "wigga" is quite an apt and funny way to describe that particular choice. I don't think it's massively derogatory, a little mocking and teasing maybe, but if we banned all mocking and teasing then we'll have no fun at all.
[quote name="Crowley" url="/t/187061/apple-music-scores-another-exclusive-with-eminems-phenomenal-music-video#post_2744339"]Err... I'm doing that mainly to be cute, but if it bothers you that much I'll stop.[/QUOTE]
What bothers me is we taking the issue off how people perceive "race" and instead put the issue on a fucking word that is only powerful if we make it so. You being cute helps perpetuate that problem.
[QUOTE][COLOR=000000]Yes, it's ok.[/QUOTE]
No, it's not.
[QUOTE]The W word, sorry... "wigger" (not a word I actually use or care about), isn't actually all that derogatory, certainly not on the level that the N word... sorry, "nigger" is; it's more a playful taunt, connoting a level of falseness and pretense.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
So you think that co,mining [I]white nigger[/I] into [I]wigger[/I] somehow makes the [I]nigger[/I] part of that term go away? How the fuçk can you have a disconnect that this "white person" being compared to a [I]nigger[/I] which you previously stated was offensive. This shows that [I]nigger[/I] isn't inherently offensive so perhaps we should start looking at context of what is being stated and not whether 6 letter fall into a particular pattern.
[QUOTE]I've explained this twice already, but you don't seem to be getting it. "Nigger" has two meanings, one is the classic horrible sense.[/QUOTE]
You say that as if it's unusual for words to have multiple meanings. The fact is most nouns have multiple meaning but you want to say that this one word — out of all words in the English language — can only be used by certain people based on "race", but not others; and that the way around that is to slightly alter its spelling and sound so that its contextual meaning is exactly the same but since it's slightly altered it's perfectly acceptable. Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds?
[QUOTE]I don't really have a problem with white people wanting to be, or being, part of black culture[/QUOTE].
Part of your problem is you see the culture's defining feature as being "black" and not a result of situation factors.
[QUOTE]But "wig" is quite an apt and funny way to describe that particular choice. I don't think it's massively derogatory, a little mocking and teasing maybe, but if we banned all mocking and teasing then we'll have no fun at all.[/QUOTE]
1) Are you saying that it's a union [I]white nigger[/I] but uses the word [I]wig[/I] as its root. I guess a wig is typically artificial so you could argue that you thought it was about donning something that's naturally a part of you, but I'd think you're lying if you did that.
2) Yes, it is, because you're calling the "race" these [I]wiggers[/I] are emulating to be that of [I]niggers[/I]. You should consider it inappropriate to refer to interracial couples as having [I]jjungle fever.[/I].
3) Is it really so hard to stop placing blame on the term and start thinking about the context? If that doesn't happen and we let viewed racism endure because "they didn't use the N-word" then it will never stop being an issue.
If so, then you would understand they are words of hate.
There is no such thing. All words can be used as weapons. All words can be used to harm to heal. We have the choice how we wish words to affect us. We can either blindly be hurt by a string of letter or arrangement of phonemes, or we can look to comprehend the context of everything we read and hear. At best, you are misguided if you think that by making certain words taboos (especially if you wish to only allow them to be used within certain "races") you are helping society heal.
"Wig" was actually an autocorrect faux-pas, I meant "wigga ".
Other than that, I've stated my case and you've responded by putting a whole bunch of words in my mouth, made some sizeable assumptions, and not really taken on board my counterpoints or the context I've laid out.
As I said, I don't really care all that much about this, so I'll leave it at that, as you seem to be itching for a fight again. No thanks.
Other than that, I've stated my case and you've responded by putting a whole bunch of words in my mouth, made some sizeable assumptions, and not really taken on board my counterpoints or the context I've laid out.
1) I responded to the words you stated. You feel that calling something a white nigger in the usage of wigger isn't racist, but you'd never use the term nigger to describe someone because that's racist. That's irrational.
2) This bizarre use of wigga/nigga v wigger/nigger is ridiculous. Are you really saying the words have inherently different meanings because they are spelled in a vernacular? There is nothin' logical 'bout that.
There is no such thing. All words can be used as weapons. All words can be used to harm to heal. We have the choice how we wish words to affect us. We can either blindly be hurt by a string of letter or arrangement of phonemes, or we can look to comprehend the context of everything we read and hear. At best, you are misguided if you think that by making certain words taboos (especially if you wish to only allow them to be used within certain "races") you are helping society heal.
PLEASE, go back and read my statements. Obviously, you have not read anything I wrote. I don't like to use the word "All" but any word can be used as a weapon. Any word can be used to harm and heal as you say, and we do have the choice on how words affect us like you mentioned.
Now to use the word, "blindly", is rather ignorant, especially if the word already has context and meaning behind it. You obviously do not know the history and context of the word. Words do hurt and there are words of hate. Hate is a word of hate. If you read my last series of "strings of letters" or "arrangement of phonemes" as you would like to put it, people have already committed suicide because Susan said Billy is "fat" or someone was called a derogatory word or teased with "strings of letters" or "arrangement of phonemes" on Facebook.
Did I say make the words taboo? Nope! I didn't say that the words should not be taboo either. If anything you are misguided because from every response you made to my responses, you haven't read anything I wrote... or at least have not understood it. I said if you want to use the derogatory word, feel free to use it. I said, I myself, will not use the word because I hold myself to a higher standard. Also, the career I'm heading into, you have to be pretty culturally aware, as you have to take care of people of different backgrounds, and to use derogatory terms against any culture is a quick ticket to losing your job permanently... but this has more to do than with losing a job. This has to do with respecting a human being.
Now, go back and read my previous statements, because obviously you haven't. You can use the word if you want to. You're free to do whatever you want and I will not care. You will receive no punishment from me.
LGBT uses the word "queer", I've heard feminists use "sl*t", and blacks use "n***a". They don't like it when others outside the community use it, because a majority of the time those outside of the community have used it to insult and degrade. I'm black myself, but have I used any n-word? Nope! Do I plan to? Nope! Am I gonna call someone from LGBT a queer although I'm not from that community? Nope.
Do what you want.
I hold myself to a higher standard than the one you have set for yourself. Obviously, you want someone to talk to, but I have other friends and family to tend to at the moment. Say what you want, but I will not be responding. Bye.
PS - you are really good at twisting and distorting words from what the person originally meant. You take things out of context and say the person says words that aren't there. Smells like a troll.
I precisely explained that I was using the spellings as a textual device to signify the different meanings. The difference in meanings is crucial to the point, but you still aren't getting that. I'm not capable of explaining it any more clearly than I already have.
You aren't getting it, and for that reason there's nothing more to be said.
Any word can be used to harm and heal as you say, and we do have the choice on how words affect us like you mentioned.
Restating my point.
You obviously do not know the history and context of the word.
I clearly know the history and I'm also both intelligent and pragmatic enough to know that a single strong of letters isn't inherently racist or hateful.
Hate is a word of hate.
Meaningless tautology.
If you read my last series of "strings of letters" or "arrangement of phonemes" as you would like to put it, people that have already committed suicide because Susan said Billy is "fat" or someone was called a derogatory word or teased with "strings of letters" or "arrangement of phonemes" on Facebook.
So that means a word is inherently evil because it's used in an evil way. If that's bullshittery is your measure then there are a lot of words you have to then deem unusual in the English language, not to mention actual contextual phrases, but you've put your teeth onto this one word because you are taught that it, in and of itself, without any context calls forth evil spirits.
Did I say make the words taboo? Nope.
Repeatedly, and now even use examples of suicide as reason enough to ban words.
LGBT uses the word "queer", I've heard feminists use "sl*t", and blacks use "n***a". They don't like it when others outside the community use it, because a majority of the time those outside of the community have used it to insult and degrade.
I'm black myself, but have I used any n-word? Nope! Do I plan to? Nope! Am I gonna call someone from LGBT a queer although I'm not from that community? Nope.
Yes, you keep telling us your "race" in which you identify, but the future I wish to live in, want for my children, children's children, etc. is one where people like you aren't using their so-called "race" as an excuse for anything. I shouldn't come up at all. Your corporeal self should have no bearing on a message board but you still keep presenting it as some sort of credential. Until you see that this pseudo-science designation of "race" is wrong you won't see how it's wrong to say that it's fine for certain groups of people to get certain things others can't based on their "race" (or gender or sexual orientation). How about we try to treat people as equals? You'd probably say "sure" to that, but if you can't even do so with a common language then you aren't ready to truly say that.
]I hold myself to a higher standard than the one you have set for yourself.
You don't, and your use of an asterisk instead of the word when it's contextually neutral is proof of that.
I precisely explained that I was using the spellings as a textual device to signify the different meanings. The difference in meanings is crucial to the point, but you still aren't getting that. I'm not capable of explaining it any more clearly than I already have.
You aren't getting it, and for that reason there's nothing more to be said.
You're not even understanding your own words. You say that wigger is fine, because you didn't say nigger even though it means whitenigger, and your stated reasoning is that it's because you are referring to a "white person" and not a "black person" as a nigger. It's the same context for nigger.
Comments
The impact of words varies based on context. You can see this in a lot of different cases e.g certain people telling particular jokes, women using terms to refer to other women that wouldn't sound the same coming from men, different sexualities using words to define themselves.
If you are a member of the group being described by a term then it's not as likely to be used as an attack or for separation but rather a term of affinity as in 'we're the same'. You for example could never refer to yourself as n-word so it can never be used as a means of association but always as a means of describing people other than you. That's why it has a different meaning depending on who says it.
The word wigger has never been used to describe a race. It's a term to describe fake association with a race/culture. What was said above with it lending weight to the n-word is valid and it implies white people can't be a part of black music/culture so it will offend some people but the target group would be a small subset of white people, not black and AFAIK, white people aren't so offended by a term implying they are fakers that they expect that word shouldn't be used.
Oprah and Jay Z talked about the use of the n-word in rap and Oprah said no one should use it because of the historical weight it carried and Jay Z said the more it's used in something like rap music, that helps remove that weight from it:
Words can take on a different meaning with social change. Some just fall out of popular usage. The f-word for homosexual will fall out of usage. I suspect the n-word will live on in rap music and it does become problematic in that white people who like rap will want to repeat the lyrics. I don't think the resolution to that problem will be that it becomes ok for everyone to use whenever they want just like other terms used in rap. In most cases, it'll probably just end up similar to how boy bands sing songs for girls and when girls sing them, they just blank out lines where girls are the object of affection.
It leads to some interesting situations because you can see Kanye West in the Glastonbury video posted earlier saying the n-word repeatedly but he punched someone over it:
http://metro.co.uk/2014/01/14/kanye-west-punches-teenager-over-racist-remarks-made-to-kim-kardashian-4262181/
and Kim Kardashian told that person that his language wasn't appropriate. The person who was punched sued and they settled for $250k. But you can see the differences in context. One was clearly using that language as a means of attack and abuse, Kanye's own use of similar language is for bringing people together.
If you really want the issue resolved, I would suggest taking the side of condemning everyone for using it rather than trying to gain acceptance in everyone using it because it comes across like saying that you don't understand why straight people can't say f* to refer to gay people when some of them use it. Any motivation to use offensive terms that refer to groups that exclude yourself is going to be viewed as suspect.
1) So you're idiotic statement is that nigga in no way is a variation of the word nigger, and by extension white nigger in no way references the word nigger. How the **** can you make such a stupid statement and yet figure out how to sign up for this forum?
2) Once you start seeng past race you'll understand that a contextually derogatory statement affects everyone in a society. You think the string of letters is what's "evil" when that is the chance act though the evolution of language, not something that endures though all time and space. Words have no special powers unless you choose to make it so.
3) Let's be clear, you signed up to make a racist statement that there are words that can be said by one "race" but not other "races". How about letting go of this notion of race as being as absurd as organizing people by height, hair color, eye color, or anything else that is simply a variation of human variety?
Says the guy who just wrote the word nigga and doesn't seem to comprehend the one make racial remarks without using any taboo words at all. Most commonly heard are terms like "those people" sometimes followed by some pseudo-science explanation as to why said "race" is inherently inferior. But, hey, so long as the word nigger is never written out but instead we use slightly altered terms like wigger, nigga, blacky, etc. it's perfectly acceptable in your mind to disparage an entire group of people based on some superficial trait. Aren't you considerate¡
That's my fuçking point! It's about context, not the certain letters of phonemes arranged in a particular order. Words can not be cursed.
1) To restate, you don't think wigger is short for white nigger, so you can't see that nigger does refer race and therefore it's not offense to anyone. Fuçking brilliant¡
2) I get that Harry Potter has magic spells that need to be stated exactly in order to work properly. That's fuçking fiction and magic spells and prophecies have a long history of being exact or literal (see the stupid scene from Lord of the Rings where the creature can't be "killed by no man" but it's a woman in the armor so it can then be killed), but this is fuçking reality. If you get upset because the word nigger was used in a contextually neutral way but then don't get upset when someone disparages another group of people wth terms like "those people" or some other BS where the context is clear, then you're an idol and a hypocrite.
Oprah perpetuates the issue by making a word taboo regardless of the context, and Jay Z also perpetuates it by not stating that it will continue to be a racially charged term until such time as we don't say "x can you use it because of the color of their skin, but y can't use it because of the color of their skin." The term will never become neutralized is if can't stop looking at the word and instead start looking at what is being stated.
^ A little less hostility might be in order? Not every discussion needs to be a fight.
The problem with white people using the n word is that it conjures up hundreds of years of history of white people using the n word, which can be a problem no matter what the context or intent of it is.
The problem with white people using the w word is... well there isn't one, the w word doesn't have that history. Yes, the w word uses the n word by proxy, but the meaning of it is very clear, it is not derogatory to black people, it is derogatory to the white people who are trying to emulate a certain black culture that has reclaimed the n word. That's why it's different, because of that context and clarity.
How the **** do you think a derogatory usage begin and a term gets designated taboo in the first place?
Only if you are an idiot do you think that wigger in any way disparages those that the "N-word" is directed.
Again, the context is the same, it's saying that at "white" person is acting like a "nigger". How the fuçk can you not see that as being harmful to those that wouldn't want to be called nigger? Because it's not directed at them on that occasion you think that it's fine? How the fuçk is that an argument from you? It's offensive because the context is offensive.
Here's a clip where a guy, a proclaimed minority denoting him as "brown", only uses the term "black" to describe people he innately doesn't trust or like because of the color of their skin. You're telling me that it's not racist because of that? Really?!
[VIDEO]
Here's another example of blatant racism: Oprah wasn't shown a bag a store in Switzerland but all the clerk said was that Oprah wouldn't be able to afford it. No use of any terms like black, nigga, or nigger, but you and others want to claim that it's not contextually racist until the "N-word" is stated?
^ Why are you bringing up these irrelevant examples of racist behaviour? Yes, they're racist, and they don't involve the n word. So what? No one is claiming that the n word is the source of all racism.
There are many claims in this thread, even by you, that using terms like wigger and nigga are not racist. In my argument that context is everything — not a string of letters or arrangement of phonemes — I've taken that one step further to show that racism is entirely contextual with or without these "safe" words.
Perhaps one day you'll understand that racism isn't just wrong, but also entirely invented, and perhaps at that point you'll be able to see past this superficialness of racism to see that to disparage, condemn and/or isolate anyone on something as meaningless as skin color is irrational and wrong.
How the **** do you think a derogatory usage begin and a term gets designated taboo in the first place?
I confess I don't really understand the question. The w word is not especially taboo, in my experience, though it is certainly meant in a derogatory sense. But not every derogatory word is taboo, for example, "idiot", like you keep calling people.
Only if you are an idiot do you think that wigger in any way disparages those that the "N-word" is directed.
I don't really understand this either, but I think it might just be bad wording. The point is that the N word has two distinct uses, the "traditional" derogatory sense, and the modern reclaimed sense, that is also often associated with a certain rap/gangsta/thug (whatever you want to call it) culture. One is derogatory, and one (broadly) isn't, but white people using the N word because of the association of white people and the traditional sense means that there's a broad problem with them using it, even when they mean in the latter sense.
Quote:
Again, the context is the same, it's saying that at "white" person is acting like a "nigger". How the fuçk can you not see that as being harmful to those that wouldn't want to be called nigger? Because it's not directed at them on that occasion you think that it's fine? How the fuçk is that an argument from you? It's offensive because the context is offensive.
Since the W word is very directly and unambiguously a play on the latter meaning of the word, and is a distinctly different word, there is no really problem with either white or black people using it. The derogatory nature is entirely focussed on the target, which is the white person trying to emulate black culture (not a crime, but can be quite funny, and false).
There are many claims in this thread, even by you, that using terms like wigger and nigga are not racist. In my argument that context is everything — not a string of letters or arrangement of phonemes — I've taken that one step further to show that racism is entirely contextual with or without these "safe" words.
Perhaps one day you'll understand that racism isn't just wrong, but also entirely invented, and perhaps at that point you'll be able to see past this superficialness of racism to see that to disparage, condemn and/or isolate anyone on something as meaningless as skin color is irrational and wrong.
I... entirely agree with this (well, the second part anyway). If this is all you've been getting at then I genuinely have no idea why you've been cussing and insulting people all over the place. No one has really said anything different.
1) You're writing "W word" now? Really?! Way to not understand anything.
2) So it's OK to be derogatory toward a "white person"? There is a word for making something acceptable for one group of people based on "race" and not another: racism.
3) So it's quite funny to call people wiggers or its quite funny that you would think people that identify with a culture as being white people emulating being niggers? How the fuçk can you not a problem with any of that? Culture ? race. In fact, there are no biological races, only this notion of race we've interwoven into culture, but it is not something that you have to perpetuate. You can choose to be better than than that.
I'm tired to the racism on this site, which has grown ever since Apple bought Beats.
Yes, they have.
Let me introduce myself, sir. For now, let's call me "Trump." I am first and foremost an individual with personal values, tastes, opinions and aspirations. I am confident and comfortable in who I am, but I do not consider myself better than anybody else as I too have had failures, yet I have also had my share of successes. I am living a human life, as you are.
My parents are Jamaican (with mixed backgrounds ranging from the Aztecs, even to the Scottish). I am considered a Caribbean-American. (America would rather call me African-American although our cultures are pretty different. We have had similar struggles, though. However, It's like saying all Asians look alike without realizing there are Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, etc. and even Indians with totally distinct cultures... Try saying that Spain, Russia, Germany, England and France are the same). I was born and raised in the United States. I recently graduated from college in an intense, hard-to-get-into program studying health. I'm not one to curse or use the n-word or any curse word for that matter. My mother curses more than I do and she doesn't curse often either. I used those words in that paragraph to help you understand a little, but you seem to be good at missing the point. It is very nice that you have exposed to me some of your character, though
Maybe you skimmed through what I wrote, but that's ok. Where in my writing have I said that those words are or are not variants of each other? I have made no mention of variation for you to even comment on it. I have even mentioned how the LGBT community changed the context of the "g" and "f" word as a term of endearment. Why haven't you asked, "why is it ok that the LGBT community can use the "g" and "f" word but we can't?" I have heard girls of different backgrounds call each other "sl*t" in a jokingly fashion constantly. Are they that word or act like they are that word? NO. However, I would NEVER DARE to call a girl that word, unless I want a slap.
I'll clap my hands for you, in that you mentioned context having importance in giving weight behind the word. And you are right, letters that form the word are not cursed in themselves... But try connecting the dots together. Context influences the word's meaning. If the context behind the word is negative... wouldn't the word itself have a negative resonance or ring to it?
People that used words such as the ones you have said in a derogatory fashion have done it as they beat a man, woman or child on their back, placed a person in a gas chamber, locked a person in chains of slavery, raped innocent women in Iraq, denied help and granted death favorably to a fellow human being.
You can choose to freely spew derogatory words, but so did the people filled with hateful fumes that wanted to see a whole group of people extinct. As I said before, you can either go with the crowd on certain issues or stand above it. I choose to stand above it, and I will not use those words, because they are in their ill-context, meant to curse. I don't care if it's the derogatory word for a certain culture, a certain gender or a person who has a different sexual preference. If you think words and their meanings are not powerful, you don't have to look far: People commit suicide over words.
So just to summarize. If you want to use the n-word, w-word or whatever ill-word, feel free. No one is stopping you. I'm not stopping you. As a man of higher standards and regards, I will not do it and this is my decision.
1) So you're idiotic statement is that nigga in no way is a variation of the word nigger, and by extension white nigger in no way references the word nigger. How the **** can you make such a stupid statement and yet figure out how to sign up for this forum?
2) Once you start seeng past race you'll understand that a contextually derogatory statement affects everyone in a society. You think the string of letters is what's "evil" when that is the chance act though the evolution of language, not something that endures though all time and space. Words have no special powers unless you choose to make it so.
3) Let's be clear, you signed up to make a racist statement that there are words that can be said by one "race" but not other "races". How about letting go of this notion of race as being as absurd as organizing people by height, hair color, eye color, or anything else that is simply a variation of human variety?
Says the guy who just wrote the word nigga and doesn't seem to comprehend the one make racial remarks without using any taboo words at all. Most commonly heard are terms like "those people" sometimes followed by some pseudo-science explanation as to why said "race" is inherently inferior. But, hey, so long as the word nigger is never written out but instead we use slightly altered terms like wigger, nigga, blacky, etc. it's perfectly acceptable in your mind to disparage an entire group of people based on some superficial trait. Aren't you considerate¡
That's my fuçking point! It's about context, not the certain letters of phonemes arranged in a particular order. Words can not be cursed.
1) To restate, you don't think wigger is short for white nigger, so you can't see that nigger does refer race and therefore it's not offense to anyone. Fuçking brilliant¡
2) I get that Harry Potter has magic spells that need to be stated exactly in order to work properly. That's fuçking fiction and magic spells and prophecies have a long history of being exact or literal (see the stupid scene from Lord of the Rings where the creature can't be "killed by no man" but it's a woman in the armor so it can then be killed), but this is fuçking reality. If you get upset because the word nigger was used in a contextually neutral way but then don't get upset when someone disparages another group of people wth terms like "those people" or some other BS where the context is clear, then you're an idol and a hypocrite.
Oprah perpetuates the issue by making a word taboo regardless of the context, and Jay Z also perpetuates it by not stating that it will continue to be a racially charged term until such time as we don't say "x can you use it because of the color of their skin, but y can't use it because of the color of their skin." The term will never become neutralized is if can't stop looking at the word and instead start looking at what is being stated.
1) You're writing "W word" now? Really?! Way to not understand anything.
Err... I'm doing that mainly to be cute, but if it bothers you that much I'll stop.
2) So it's OK to be derogatory toward a "white person"? There is a word for making something acceptable for one group of people based on "race" and not another: racism.
Yes, it's ok. White people pretending to be part of black culture are not an oppressed minority. The black culture that we're talking about does exist, and the white people making out that they're gangsta do exist. The W word, sorry... "wigger" (not a word I actually use or care about), isn't actually all that derogatory, certainly not on the level that the N word... sorry, "nigger" is; it's more a playful taunt, connoting a level of falseness and pretense.
3) So it's quite funny to call people wiggers or its quite funny that you would think people that identify with a culture as being white people emulating being niggers? How the fuçk can you not a problem with any of that? Culture ? race. In fact, there are no biological races, only this notion of race we've interwoven into culture, but it is not something that you have to perpetuate. You can choose to be better than than that.
I've explained this twice already, but you don't seem to be getting it. "Nigger" has two meanings, one is the classic horrible sense. Everyone who counts hates that word and doesn't use it. But there is another word, it sounds the same, but let's spell it "nigga" just to textualise the difference. This is the reclaimed word, used in casual conversation with no derogatory undertone to mean "person", usually with black skin, though not necessarily. It also has become very identified with a certain black culture. The fact that the words sound the same means that there is a problem with white people using the word, because white people using the former word has a long and horrible history. However, "wigga" (with our revised spelling) does not have such a problem. If anyone though that "wigga" was "wigger" then that might be a problem, but it is very directly connected with the black culture, and not the black race. Yes, culture ? race, you;re quite right, which is precisely why this is a different thing.
I don't really have a problem with white people wanting to be, or being, part of black culture. Go for it. But "wigga" is quite an apt and funny way to describe that particular choice. I don't think it's massively derogatory, a little mocking and teasing maybe, but if we banned all mocking and teasing then we'll have no fun at all.
I'm tired to the racism on this site, which has grown ever since Apple bought Beats.
I agree with you, but I don't think this is a case of that.
What bothers me is we taking the issue off how people perceive "race" and instead put the issue on a fucking word that is only powerful if we make it so. You being cute helps perpetuate that problem.
[QUOTE][COLOR=000000]Yes, it's ok.[/QUOTE]
No, it's not.
[QUOTE]The W word, sorry... "wigger" (not a word I actually use or care about), isn't actually all that derogatory, certainly not on the level that the N word... sorry, "nigger" is; it's more a playful taunt, connoting a level of falseness and pretense.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
So you think that co,mining [I]white nigger[/I] into [I]wigger[/I] somehow makes the [I]nigger[/I] part of that term go away? How the fuçk can you have a disconnect that this "white person" being compared to a [I]nigger[/I] which you previously stated was offensive. This shows that [I]nigger[/I] isn't inherently offensive so perhaps we should start looking at context of what is being stated and not whether 6 letter fall into a particular pattern.
[QUOTE]I've explained this twice already, but you don't seem to be getting it. "Nigger" has two meanings, one is the classic horrible sense.[/QUOTE]
You say that as if it's unusual for words to have multiple meanings. The fact is most nouns have multiple meaning but you want to say that this one word — out of all words in the English language — can only be used by certain people based on "race", but not others; and that the way around that is to slightly alter its spelling and sound so that its contextual meaning is exactly the same but since it's slightly altered it's perfectly acceptable. Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds?
[QUOTE]I don't really have a problem with white people wanting to be, or being, part of black culture[/QUOTE].
Part of your problem is you see the culture's defining feature as being "black" and not a result of situation factors.
[QUOTE]But "wig" is quite an apt and funny way to describe that particular choice. I don't think it's massively derogatory, a little mocking and teasing maybe, but if we banned all mocking and teasing then we'll have no fun at all.[/QUOTE]
1) Are you saying that it's a union [I]white nigger[/I] but uses the word [I]wig[/I] as its root. I guess a wig is typically artificial so you could argue that you thought it was about donning something that's naturally a part of you, but I'd think you're lying if you did that.
2) Yes, it is, because you're calling the "race" these [I]wiggers[/I] are emulating to be that of [I]niggers[/I]. You should consider it inappropriate to refer to interracial couples as having [I]jjungle fever.[/I].
3) Is it really so hard to stop placing blame on the term and start thinking about the context? If that doesn't happen and we let viewed racism endure because "they didn't use the N-word" then it will never stop being an issue.
There is no such thing. All words can be used as weapons. All words can be used to harm to heal. We have the choice how we wish words to affect us. We can either blindly be hurt by a string of letter or arrangement of phonemes, or we can look to comprehend the context of everything we read and hear. At best, you are misguided if you think that by making certain words taboos (especially if you wish to only allow them to be used within certain "races") you are helping society heal.
Other than that, I've stated my case and you've responded by putting a whole bunch of words in my mouth, made some sizeable assumptions, and not really taken on board my counterpoints or the context I've laid out.
As I said, I don't really care all that much about this, so I'll leave it at that, as you seem to be itching for a fight again. No thanks.
1) I responded to the words you stated. You feel that calling something a white nigger in the usage of wigger isn't racist, but you'd never use the term nigger to describe someone because that's racist. That's irrational.
2) This bizarre use of wigga/nigga v wigger/nigger is ridiculous. Are you really saying the words have inherently different meanings because they are spelled in a vernacular? There is nothin' logical 'bout that.
There is no such thing. All words can be used as weapons. All words can be used to harm to heal. We have the choice how we wish words to affect us. We can either blindly be hurt by a string of letter or arrangement of phonemes, or we can look to comprehend the context of everything we read and hear. At best, you are misguided if you think that by making certain words taboos (especially if you wish to only allow them to be used within certain "races") you are helping society heal.
PLEASE, go back and read my statements. Obviously, you have not read anything I wrote. I don't like to use the word "All" but any word can be used as a weapon. Any word can be used to harm and heal as you say, and we do have the choice on how words affect us like you mentioned.
Now to use the word, "blindly", is rather ignorant, especially if the word already has context and meaning behind it. You obviously do not know the history and context of the word. Words do hurt and there are words of hate. Hate is a word of hate. If you read my last series of "strings of letters" or "arrangement of phonemes" as you would like to put it, people have already committed suicide because Susan said Billy is "fat" or someone was called a derogatory word or teased with "strings of letters" or "arrangement of phonemes" on Facebook.
Did I say make the words taboo? Nope! I didn't say that the words should not be taboo either. If anything you are misguided because from every response you made to my responses, you haven't read anything I wrote... or at least have not understood it. I said if you want to use the derogatory word, feel free to use it. I said, I myself, will not use the word because I hold myself to a higher standard. Also, the career I'm heading into, you have to be pretty culturally aware, as you have to take care of people of different backgrounds, and to use derogatory terms against any culture is a quick ticket to losing your job permanently... but this has more to do than with losing a job. This has to do with respecting a human being.
Now, go back and read my previous statements, because obviously you haven't. You can use the word if you want to. You're free to do whatever you want and I will not care. You will receive no punishment from me.
LGBT uses the word "queer", I've heard feminists use "sl*t", and blacks use "n***a". They don't like it when others outside the community use it, because a majority of the time those outside of the community have used it to insult and degrade. I'm black myself, but have I used any n-word? Nope! Do I plan to? Nope! Am I gonna call someone from LGBT a queer although I'm not from that community? Nope.
Do what you want.
I hold myself to a higher standard than the one you have set for yourself. Obviously, you want someone to talk to, but I have other friends and family to tend to at the moment. Say what you want, but I will not be responding. Bye.
PS - you are really good at twisting and distorting words from what the person originally meant. You take things out of context and say the person says words that aren't there. Smells like a troll.
Again, you're putting words in my mouth.
I precisely explained that I was using the spellings as a textual device to signify the different meanings. The difference in meanings is crucial to the point, but you still aren't getting that. I'm not capable of explaining it any more clearly than I already have.
You aren't getting it, and for that reason there's nothing more to be said.
Restating my point.
I clearly know the history and I'm also both intelligent and pragmatic enough to know that a single strong of letters isn't inherently racist or hateful.
Meaningless tautology.
So that means a word is inherently evil because it's used in an evil way. If that's bullshittery is your measure then there are a lot of words you have to then deem unusual in the English language, not to mention actual contextual phrases, but you've put your teeth onto this one word because you are taught that it, in and of itself, without any context calls forth evil spirits.
Repeatedly, and now even use examples of suicide as reason enough to ban words.
Yes, you keep telling us your "race" in which you identify, but the future I wish to live in, want for my children, children's children, etc. is one where people like you aren't using their so-called "race" as an excuse for anything. I shouldn't come up at all. Your corporeal self should have no bearing on a message board but you still keep presenting it as some sort of credential. Until you see that this pseudo-science designation of "race" is wrong you won't see how it's wrong to say that it's fine for certain groups of people to get certain things others can't based on their "race" (or gender or sexual orientation). How about we try to treat people as equals? You'd probably say "sure" to that, but if you can't even do so with a common language then you aren't ready to truly say that.
You don't, and your use of an asterisk instead of the word when it's contextually neutral is proof of that.
You're not even understanding your own words. You say that wigger is fine, because you didn't say nigger even though it means white nigger, and your stated reasoning is that it's because you are referring to a "white person" and not a "black person" as a nigger. It's the same context for nigger.