This story is disgraceful. I wonder what lengths USA will go to, and spread non-sense to convince people their IT devices have not backdoors to be used by several national three-letter agencies. Certainly it is the case we have got evidences Microsoft and Cisco have them, and I honestly have serious doubts Apple products are any different. Honestly, internacional politics and businessmen abroad must be very stupid to use products from a foreign, competing nation for serious business purposes. China is doing it right making their own hardware, software and CPUs on that respect.
This story is disgraceful. I wonder what lengths USA will go to, and spread non-sense to convince people their IT devices have not backdoors to be used by several national three-letter agencies. Certainly it is the case we have got evidences Microsoft and Cisco have them, and I honestly have serious doubts Apple products are any different. Honestly, internacional politics and businessmen abroad must be very stupid to use products from a foreign, competing nation for serious business purposes. China is doing it right making their own hardware, software and CPUs on that respect.
Terrorism needs to be fought in other ways. In teaching kids values, offering opportunities and providing a future. Not going after Apple.
Terrorists, by the way, can do what they want (as they always had - Osama and 9/11 anyone?????) without Apple. And children have been kidnapped etc without any smartphones, for decades....
How true especially the part about teaching values. The problem with the US is its trying to force our values onto the rest of the world. We have no right to do so and many of these values aren't good ones anyway. You could add the Oklahoma City bombing of 1995 to that list. This was done by good old Americans not by some made up enemy hoarding "American" oil. The war on terrorism is a sad chapter in US history, coming right after the peace and love generation of the 60's. What a change.
So AT&T, version, et al would be liable for said encrypted transmissions be sent on their networks? Cisco for transmission through their routers? Wait who is providing them with electricity... The should clearly be held responsible!
I'm certainly not suggesting Apple should be charged with supporting terrorism, but I am here to suggest that strong encryption has, potentially, severe consequences. The reason why many of you are nonchalant about it is that it hasn't effected you personally.
Let's take this imaginary scenario as an example...a "lone wolf" in NYC is able to hide his plans using the strong encryption in iMessage and detonates a bomb on the subway, and you lose a family member. Would you still feel so strongly about encryption and privacy? I bet not. I know I wouldn't.
Again, not pointing fingers at anyone. Just suggesting that we should look at all aspects of the privacy debate.
Is Chevron liable for supporting terrorism because the Boston Marathon bombers filled up their tank at their station beforehand? Is Avis liable because they rented a truck to the 1993 World Trade Center Bomber? Is Home Depot liable because they sold fertilizer to Tim McVeigh? Are American and United Airlines liable because they sold tickets to the 9/11 terrorists?
Companies that rent trucks or sell gas, fertilizer, and airline tickets are liable now, because those products can be used for terrorism, just like Apple's messaging encryption?
What a total crock...
I agree with you......
Terrorist can't use Window's/Android because it can be hacked.
I'm certainly not suggesting Apple should be charged with supporting terrorism, but I am here to suggest that strong encryption has, potentially, severe consequences. The reason why many of you are nonchalant about it is that it hasn't effected you personally.
Let's take this imaginary scenario as an example...a "lone wolf" in NYC is able to hide his plans using the strong encryption in iMessage and detonates a bomb on the subway, and you lose a family member. Would you still feel so strongly about encryption and privacy? I bet not. I know I wouldn't.
Again, not pointing fingers at anyone. Just suggesting that we should look at all aspects of the privacy debate.
Sh*t happens and there's no way to get around it. Terrorists and other fanatics have a variety of ways to hide their activities. They don't have to use iPhones to get away with things, in fact, they'd probably use burn phones running Android.
Have I been personally involved in terrorism activity? Almost and it was before the proliferation of mobile devices. I was in London in 2005 a week before the subway bombing and I was in the stations that were bombed. Those terrorists didn't have iPhones with the level of encryption they have now and they still got away with it. I believe in privacy because more people have been affected by hackers stealing their identity and money than have been affected by terrorism. Terrorism is the new orange (or whatever that stupid saying is) and our government is exploiting it to their benefit, and the benefit of all its commercial investors, to the fullest. Whatever happened to why can't we all just get along? We can't because that's bad for business.
You sound as delusional as the idiots working at State. Providing opportunity and a future. Jesus Christ.
Where do you think terrorists come from? kids with regular loving family with a job, food every day on the table, a roof on their head, and a future ahead of them, or where else?
Do you think that people that have a regular life, a job, food, convenience and a future to look to, end up bombing places and use their iPhones to kill people?
If you don't have a passport, as it seems, get one and travel the world, the real one, and see how delusional I am. Go and see real poverty. And the kids there that will become the adults of the near future. Then you will see where terrorists come from.
I don't know what "idiots working at State" means. You seem to assume that everybody reading and commenting here are from the only country on the planet, namely the USA. Think twice.
While the authors are (supposedly) not government employees, what I feel this is about is the NSA's and FBI's failure to protect Americans from terrorist attacks (although we don't know what they might have stopped).
So while the recent attacks on the military recruiting centers as well as the racist attack at the AME Church and the loser who shot people at the movie theatre were not all the result of a foreign power or terrorist group, all of these attacks should have been stopped.
Since they weren't stopped and attacks such as this can't really be stopped, the NSA and FBI need an excuse. And that excuse is to blame companies like Apple.
If the NSA would stop trying to spy on absolutely everyone and instead would focus just on those people who are most likely to engage in such an attack, perhaps they'd do a better job. But having said that, stopping a "lone wolf" attack is almost impossible, as the perpetrator usually tells no one what they're going to do and almost by definition, is alienated from other people. Looking at those recent attacks, access to an iPhone (if indeed any of those people actually owned one) would not have stopped the attacks. At best, it would only provide info as to whether the terrorist had associates after the act.
How true especially the part about teaching values. The problem with the US is its trying to force our values onto the rest of the world. We have no right to do so and many of these values aren't good ones anyway. You could add the Oklahoma City bombing of 1995 to that list. This was done by good old Americans not by some made up enemy hoarding "American" oil. The war on terrorism is a sad chapter in US history, coming right after the peace and love generation of the 60's. What a change.
The problem is also in other countries, where values of "going to heaven with xx women for you" is instilled in kids at a young age, who should be at school, have regular food and attention from families who are possibly under terror control for thinking even remotely differently. And in other countries there might be other reasons to be terrorists. Take Italy or Germany in the 70s. Or Nothern Ireland in the not so distant past. The world is not just US forcing values here and there. Though they want to assert economic and political power whenever possible in the name of "national security"...
What I am trying to say is that terrorism is not fought by chasing companies like Apple, but by removing the reasons why terrorists become that. And most do what they do out of desperation, illiteracy, lack of positive environments, lack of jobs, lack of good reasons to live. Whether that is in the US, China, EU, Middle East or Mars. And whether Catholic, Muslim or Atheist.
kids with regular loving family with a job, food every day on the table, a roof on their head, and a future ahead of them
Yes, if that future is a life in service to Muhammad.
Do you think that people that have a regular life, a job, food, convenience and a future to look to, end up bombing places and use their iPhones to kill people?
Yep. We’ve seen it.
If you don't have a passport, as it seems, get one and travel the world, the real one, and see how delusional I am. Go and see real poverty.
I love how the only rebuttal these people have is “go see the world” as though that 1. matters 2. will do anything but reenforce what is already being said 3. is safe in any way.
Then you will see where terrorists come from.
So… mussulman countries, yes.
I don't know what "idiots working at State" means.
Check the context, then.
Originally Posted by pakitt
What I am trying to say is that terrorism is not fought by chasing companies like Apple, but by removing the reasons why terrorists become that. And most do what they do…
…because they have read and understand what the Quran says.
Protecting customers from technically advanced criminals who would love encryption back doors is not "providing material support" to anyone.
Of course, if we are going to start calling every violent criminal a "terrorist" in order to justify $trillions in defense deficit spending we might as well call all corporations that don't give up their customers privacy to self-important government officials "terrorist collaborators".
Let's completely militarize the homeland. "For the citizens" of course.
I wish the government was as serious about the risks of doctors with bad hand writing. More people die from that than terrorism. We should probably start locking doctors up in camps.
Yes, if that future is a life in service to Muhammad.
Yep. We’ve seen it.
I love how the only rebuttal these people have is “go see the world” as though that 1. matters 2. will do anything but reenforce what is already being said 3. is safe in any way.
So… mussulman countries, yes.
Check the context, then.
If you still think that terrorists use encrypted (i)Phones to do what they do, and that there are *only* muslims coming from "mussulman" countries, well done: you have been quite brainwashed by the US media.
9/11 was done from people living in the US (religion or not, they were not arriving somewhere out of the US that day with a missile or a gun in their hands or a blade held in their teeth) and all they had was unencrypted phones.
If you think encrypted phones in the hand of muslim terrorist (because there *only* muslim terrorists, yeah right) are the source of all (muslim) evil, then live a happy life while your neighbour plans to kill everybody in the school next to you, after posting on Facebook he will kill everybody.
Just release a public letter that says Apple will not comply with anything that is not Constitutional. And then don’t comply. In fact, expose everything they’re already complying with and then stop that, as well.
There’s nothing that any court would do against Apple in that regard, and the executive branch bringing any physical power to bear against a company that has explicitly stated this would be suicide for them.
With one very notable exception (trivia: can you cite it?), the US Constitution has nothing to say about acts of private parties.
Interestingly, the US Government could choose the "nuclear option" on the matter by using their power to "take" iOS. The Constitution does say that the government can take property but must pay compensation. This is common in real property takes, but theoretically it could apply to intangible property too. Theoretically. And of course, the wisdom of doing so is...questionable.
But clearly, the blog's construction of "material support" is flawed. Legal academic mental masturbation at best.
Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!) Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace, And saw, within the moonlight in his room, Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom, An angel writing in a book of gold:— Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold, And to the presence in the room he said, "What writest thou?"—The vision raised its head, And with a look made of all sweet accord, Answered, "The names of those who love the Lord." "And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so," Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low, But cheerly still; and said, "I pray thee, then, Write me as one that loves his fellow men."
The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night It came again with a great wakening light, And showed the names whom love of God had blest, And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest.
Comments
Ridiculous - get a life.
Terrorism needs to be fought in other ways. In teaching kids values, offering opportunities and providing a future. Not going after Apple.
Terrorists, by the way, can do what they want (as they always had - Osama and 9/11 anyone?????) without Apple. And children have been kidnapped etc without any smartphones, for decades....
How true especially the part about teaching values. The problem with the US is its trying to force our values onto the rest of the world. We have no right to do so and many of these values aren't good ones anyway. You could add the Oklahoma City bombing of 1995 to that list. This was done by good old Americans not by some made up enemy hoarding "American" oil. The war on terrorism is a sad chapter in US history, coming right after the peace and love generation of the 60's. What a change.
I'm certainly not suggesting Apple should be charged with supporting terrorism, but I am here to suggest that strong encryption has, potentially, severe consequences. The reason why many of you are nonchalant about it is that it hasn't effected you personally.
Let's take this imaginary scenario as an example...a "lone wolf" in NYC is able to hide his plans using the strong encryption in iMessage and detonates a bomb on the subway, and you lose a family member. Would you still feel so strongly about encryption and privacy? I bet not. I know I wouldn't.
Again, not pointing fingers at anyone. Just suggesting that we should look at all aspects of the privacy debate.
Oh really?
Is Chevron liable for supporting terrorism because the Boston Marathon bombers filled up their tank at their station beforehand? Is Avis liable because they rented a truck to the 1993 World Trade Center Bomber? Is Home Depot liable because they sold fertilizer to Tim McVeigh? Are American and United Airlines liable because they sold tickets to the 9/11 terrorists?
Companies that rent trucks or sell gas, fertilizer, and airline tickets are liable now, because those products can be used for terrorism, just like Apple's messaging encryption?
What a total crock...
I agree with you......
Terrorist can't use Window's/Android because it can be hacked.
I'm certainly not suggesting Apple should be charged with supporting terrorism, but I am here to suggest that strong encryption has, potentially, severe consequences. The reason why many of you are nonchalant about it is that it hasn't effected you personally.
Let's take this imaginary scenario as an example...a "lone wolf" in NYC is able to hide his plans using the strong encryption in iMessage and detonates a bomb on the subway, and you lose a family member. Would you still feel so strongly about encryption and privacy? I bet not. I know I wouldn't.
Again, not pointing fingers at anyone. Just suggesting that we should look at all aspects of the privacy debate.
Sh*t happens and there's no way to get around it. Terrorists and other fanatics have a variety of ways to hide their activities. They don't have to use iPhones to get away with things, in fact, they'd probably use burn phones running Android.
Have I been personally involved in terrorism activity? Almost and it was before the proliferation of mobile devices. I was in London in 2005 a week before the subway bombing and I was in the stations that were bombed. Those terrorists didn't have iPhones with the level of encryption they have now and they still got away with it. I believe in privacy because more people have been affected by hackers stealing their identity and money than have been affected by terrorism. Terrorism is the new orange (or whatever that stupid saying is) and our government is exploiting it to their benefit, and the benefit of all its commercial investors, to the fullest. Whatever happened to why can't we all just get along? We can't because that's bad for business.
I think he's Ted Nugent really
You sound as delusional as the idiots working at State. Providing opportunity and a future. Jesus Christ.
Where do you think terrorists come from? kids with regular loving family with a job, food every day on the table, a roof on their head, and a future ahead of them, or where else?
Do you think that people that have a regular life, a job, food, convenience and a future to look to, end up bombing places and use their iPhones to kill people?
If you don't have a passport, as it seems, get one and travel the world, the real one, and see how delusional I am. Go and see real poverty. And the kids there that will become the adults of the near future. Then you will see where terrorists come from.
I don't know what "idiots working at State" means. You seem to assume that everybody reading and commenting here are from the only country on the planet, namely the USA. Think twice.
While the authors are (supposedly) not government employees, what I feel this is about is the NSA's and FBI's failure to protect Americans from terrorist attacks (although we don't know what they might have stopped).
So while the recent attacks on the military recruiting centers as well as the racist attack at the AME Church and the loser who shot people at the movie theatre were not all the result of a foreign power or terrorist group, all of these attacks should have been stopped.
Since they weren't stopped and attacks such as this can't really be stopped, the NSA and FBI need an excuse. And that excuse is to blame companies like Apple.
If the NSA would stop trying to spy on absolutely everyone and instead would focus just on those people who are most likely to engage in such an attack, perhaps they'd do a better job. But having said that, stopping a "lone wolf" attack is almost impossible, as the perpetrator usually tells no one what they're going to do and almost by definition, is alienated from other people. Looking at those recent attacks, access to an iPhone (if indeed any of those people actually owned one) would not have stopped the attacks. At best, it would only provide info as to whether the terrorist had associates after the act.
How true especially the part about teaching values. The problem with the US is its trying to force our values onto the rest of the world. We have no right to do so and many of these values aren't good ones anyway. You could add the Oklahoma City bombing of 1995 to that list. This was done by good old Americans not by some made up enemy hoarding "American" oil. The war on terrorism is a sad chapter in US history, coming right after the peace and love generation of the 60's. What a change.
The problem is also in other countries, where values of "going to heaven with xx women for you" is instilled in kids at a young age, who should be at school, have regular food and attention from families who are possibly under terror control for thinking even remotely differently. And in other countries there might be other reasons to be terrorists. Take Italy or Germany in the 70s. Or Nothern Ireland in the not so distant past. The world is not just US forcing values here and there. Though they want to assert economic and political power whenever possible in the name of "national security"...
What I am trying to say is that terrorism is not fought by chasing companies like Apple, but by removing the reasons why terrorists become that. And most do what they do out of desperation, illiteracy, lack of positive environments, lack of jobs, lack of good reasons to live. Whether that is in the US, China, EU, Middle East or Mars. And whether Catholic, Muslim or Atheist.
These days? Followers of Muhammad.
Yes, if that future is a life in service to Muhammad.
Yep. We’ve seen it.
I love how the only rebuttal these people have is “go see the world” as though that 1. matters 2. will do anything but reenforce what is already being said 3. is safe in any way.
So… mussulman countries, yes.
Check the context, then.
What I am trying to say is that terrorism is not fought by chasing companies like Apple, but by removing the reasons why terrorists become that. And most do what they do…
…because they have read and understand what the Quran says.
Protecting customers from technically advanced criminals who would love encryption back doors is not "providing material support" to anyone.
Of course, if we are going to start calling every violent criminal a "terrorist" in order to justify $trillions in defense deficit spending we might as well call all corporations that don't give up their customers privacy to self-important government officials "terrorist collaborators".
Let's completely militarize the homeland. "For the citizens" of course.
I wish the government was as serious about the risks of doctors with bad hand writing. More people die from that than terrorism. We should probably start locking doctors up in camps.
Fast and Furious.
Gun running through Benghazi.
Current aid to Syrian "rebels".
Aid to Iran.
Yeah, who's supporting terrorism again?
Ronald Reagan's administration illegally sold weapons to the Iranians. Is that who you are talking about?
These days? Followers of Muhammad.
Yes, if that future is a life in service to Muhammad.
Yep. We’ve seen it.
I love how the only rebuttal these people have is “go see the world” as though that 1. matters 2. will do anything but reenforce what is already being said 3. is safe in any way.
So… mussulman countries, yes.
Check the context, then.
If you still think that terrorists use encrypted (i)Phones to do what they do, and that there are *only* muslims coming from "mussulman" countries, well done: you have been quite brainwashed by the US media.
9/11 was done from people living in the US (religion or not, they were not arriving somewhere out of the US that day with a missile or a gun in their hands or a blade held in their teeth) and all they had was unencrypted phones.
If you think encrypted phones in the hand of muslim terrorist (because there *only* muslim terrorists, yeah right) are the source of all (muslim) evil, then live a happy life while your neighbour plans to kill everybody in the school next to you, after posting on Facebook he will kill everybody.
Just release a public letter that says Apple will not comply with anything that is not Constitutional. And then don’t comply. In fact, expose everything they’re already complying with and then stop that, as well.
There’s nothing that any court would do against Apple in that regard, and the executive branch bringing any physical power to bear against a company that has explicitly stated this would be suicide for them.
With one very notable exception (trivia: can you cite it?), the US Constitution has nothing to say about acts of private parties.
Interestingly, the US Government could choose the "nuclear option" on the matter by using their power to "take" iOS. The Constitution does say that the government can take property but must pay compensation. This is common in real property takes, but theoretically it could apply to intangible property too. Theoretically. And of course, the wisdom of doing so is...questionable.
But clearly, the blog's construction of "material support" is flawed. Legal academic mental masturbation at best.
That's why people hate lawyers.
Breaking news: Laywers lose top spot on shitlist to Dentists.
BY LEIGH HUNT
Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,
And saw, within the moonlight in his room,
Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,
An angel writing in a book of gold:—
Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,
And to the presence in the room he said,
"What writest thou?"—The vision raised its head,
And with a look made of all sweet accord,
Answered, "The names of those who love the Lord."
"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"
Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,
But cheerly still; and said, "I pray thee, then,
Write me as one that loves his fellow men."
The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night
It came again with a great wakening light,
And showed the names whom love of God had blest,
And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest.