My response would be for this group to pound sand.
That probably would have been Steve Jobs response too. But if congress or the White House says "jump" Cook says "how high?". Remember it was Apple hauled in front of congress over their tax practices when all sorts of companies are doing the exact same thing.
Have you ever been discriminated against, oppressed, or not considered for a position because you're left handed? Have you ever been called offensive names, insinuated you're not talented enough or capable enough for a job, because you're left handed? Are jokes and death threats made casually by friends and strangers alike because of your left handedness? Are their state and federal laws in place that restrict your agency and bodily autonomy due to being left handed? Do you feel scared to walk down a street at night because of your left handedness? Do you watch TV, movies, or talk with friends and family members and feel like you've somehow been ignored, left out, or are the unwanted, hated "other" because of your left handedness?!
Sorry, calling BS on your entire line of rationalization. If an employer insinuates that you are not talented enough, or capable enough for the job - guess what? You probably aren't. You see, the employer KNOWS the job, and you just spent 2-8 hours getting a tour of the company and a bare introduction to the job. Grow up, and move on. It happens to everyone. You are no special snowflake, put on the Big Boy Pants and move along to the next interview.
If you are gay, keep it to yourself. I manage to keep my sexual life completely isolated from my work life. No one knows who I have sex with, how often I have sex, or how I have sex. Guess what? Aside from you - NO ONE CARES. If you want to act like an over-sexed high school boy/girl; I suggest that you are the problem; not everyone else. Tim Cook is openly gay - but to watch him professionally, you would never know it. It's called being an adult.
Whether I am gay, or straight - I will not hire, nor will I tolerate people behaving unprofessionally at work. You will act, dress and carry yourself like a mature, professional adult - or go to work elsewhere. See, it's very easy, it's very clear and that's the way a professionally mature organization behaves.
What I say to Lee is B.S.!! You don't even belong in politics, people like you constantly playing the race card are sickening! And when someone calls theirselves a "black professional", well they have a problem too, because they are "playing" At being a professional!! Everyone is really tired of this old worn out game!!! I'm a stock holder and I say hire THE BEST! Because I am backing a successful company and I want them and their great products to excel!!!! So crawl back into your hole Lee and dry up!!
Dre count as an employee? Seriously though, the company looks mighty white to me. As a shareholder, I believe they should diversify and do so more transparently. Amazed (not in a good way) at some of the comments here.
Dre count as an employee? Seriously though, the company looks mighty white to me. As a shareholder, I believe they should diversify and do so more transparently. Amazed (not in a good way) at some of the comments here.
It's not "mighty white." The U.S. is about 63% white. Apple is 55% white. Facts are wonderful things.
I have still seen people hired into or promoted into positions when there are candidates that blow them out of the water, because they look a certain way. It all depends on who is in charge.
Seriously? This has been a problem with a company like Apple in the competitive, innovative, envelope-pushing, cut-throat businesses it is in?
Is it some fantasy, or do you have evidence? And, do share the evidence if you have it.
It's not "mighty white." The U.S. is about 63% white. Apple is 55% white. Facts are wonderful things.
I'll say again, the company looks mighty white to me. The public face of Apple vis a vis their public events is middle aged white guys recently added to by a few middle aged white women. The public face of Microsoft and Google most definitely is not.
And it's language like this which always tends to make talking about race so difficult in this country.
No, that would be the racial agitators and hucksters. Most people don't need to talk about race, because they don't care. I live adjacent to a town that is predominantly black and latino. Much of the town's population is at the lower end of the socioeconomic scale. I see people holding doors for each other, saying "please" and "thank you" and "have a good day." I am white, upper middle class. I never encounter racial tension on either side. I have several neighbors and friends who are black, and race rarely comes up. Why? Because we don't judge each other by the color of our skin. Most people don't, unlike what people like the insane Barbara Lee would like you to believe.
Quote:
I'm an African-American technology professional with over 25 years of experience. I'm lucky enough to count Apple as my first job out of college. For over 15 years I've been working at another large very well known technology company. And I can tell you and others who have posted similar comments that race and hiring isn't that simple.
First, we in the black community are looking for access in hiring first and foremost. If a recruiter for a tech company is not even looking at your school, then your chances of landing at job at said company go down sharply. I'm a founding member of my company's African-American business professional organization. We speak a lot amongst ourselves and the broader community in general about our company's hiring and how we can give up and coming black professionals a better opportunity for employment. To that end, we are also helping to facilitate programs in colleges and even high schools to guide future graduates to the proper coursework and skills training they will need in order to make it in the world of technology. It's really facile to state that "well, the company should just hire the best people they find". That's easy to say but not what most large company Chief Human Resources Officers think about.
All very good actions. Looking in more minority-majority recruiting pools only makes sense in terms of finding the best talent. Certainly, helping people of color with access to hiring is great. But, then you go off the rails:
Quote:
Asking Apple for specific hiring data does a few things. First, it makes Apple more transparent about their hiring practices which is always a good thing.
Why is it a good thing?
Quote:
Second, it gives our communities better data to go back to the collegiate and secondary school level to convince leaders to allocate budget to encourage more kids (especially those in predominately children-of-color districts) to reach for careers in STEM (science, technology, engineering and math).
I don't see how.
Quote:
Finally, a productive dialogue with the hiring managers can lead to better, targeted recruiting. There might be a great engineering student at Tuskegee University who will invent the next great thing a company would want, but if your company doesn't come there to recruit, then the opportunity may be lost.
I think you mean "Hey, Mr. Hiring Manager, you need to hire more black kids." In that vein, let me ask you: Why is diversity an end goal in itself? that's the problem...diversity above all else.
Politicians align and campaign on the varying amount of pigment in their skin? and people vote for them on this basis? Like they were a bunch of tribes and the people in that tribe vote for the big man who gives them stuff? This will all end well.
IMO, the absolute worst thing about Apple is their political correctness. The complete absence of anything other than a politically Left viewpoint is harming their ability to comprehend how disgustingly weak these decisions make them look. The outward appearance is that Apple is an "easy mark".
Have you ever been discriminated against, oppressed, or not considered for a position because you're left handed? Have you ever been called offensive names, insinuated you're not talented enough or capable enough for a job, because you're left handed? Are jokes and death threats made casually by friends and strangers alike because of your left handedness? Are their state and federal laws in place that restrict your agency and bodily autonomy due to being left handed? Do you feel scared to walk down a street at night because of your left handedness? Do you watch TV, movies, or talk with friends and family members and feel like you've somehow been ignored, left out, or are the unwanted, hated "other" because of your left handedness?
Don't go comparing being left handed (or left footed, whatever that means?) to being a person of color, a woman, someone who's disabled, someone of different sexual orientation, or any group that has genuinely and systematically been oppressed on a societal level, to the point that companies have to work twice as hard to ensure that they're hiring a fair and diverse group, otherwise every single company will continue to be saturated with white, able-bodied, cisgender, heterosexual men indefinitely.
Obviously, there are disadvantages to being left handed--a lot of stuff is built for right handed people, which can lead to accidents, which is grossly unfair and still needs to be addressed more adequately--but you aren't going to be overlooked for a job purely because of your left handedness. No one is going to say you're too stupid for a job because you're left handed. No one is going to ignore the school you went to when looking for hires because it's a "left handed school." You'll experience some difficulties in life due to being left handed, but you're not marginalized, victimized, nor oppressed, and therefore are not even remotely in the same category as people of color, women, or transgender people (transexualism is something entirely different, thanks).
Companies like Apple need to keep striving towards being inclusive and diverse, and being transparent about that diversity, precisely because of people like you, who don't even understand what a minority is.
You know, it never ends with people who think like you. Anyone who is not a straight, white male is a victim of oppression--by straight, white males. Diversity for diversity's sake is the problem. Apple and all other companies should recruit for talent. It only makes sense to recruit in all possible areas, including traditionally black schools.
Quote:
Companies like Apple need to keep striving towards being inclusive and diverse, and being transparent about that diversity, precisely because of people like you, who don't even understand what a minority is.
But to you, everyone is a minority worthy of special protection. What he was asking in terms of "where does this end" is "shouldn't be target everyone?" It never ends. What are you going to do, target your recruiting efforts at:
Women
Blacks
Latinos
Asians
Arabs
Persians
Philippinos
Russians
Jews
Buddhists
Muslims
Mormons
Scientoligists
Gays
Bisexuals
Transgendered persons
Questioning
Intersex
Asexuals
Short people (excuse me, people who are "height disadvantaged")
You see, it never ends. As to the topic, Apple should tell Barbara Lee to piss off. She's shaking them down, pure and simple. And you're all for it.
IMO, the absolute worst thing about Apple is their political correctness. The complete absence of anything other than a politically Left viewpoint is harming their ability to comprehend how disgustingly weak these decisions make them look. The outward appearance is that Apple is an "easy mark".
Yes, where is their outreach for Christians? Conservatives? Mormons? That kind of diversity doesn't matter.
Yes, where is their outreach for Christians? Conservatives? Mormons? That kind of diversity doesn't matter.
Even though I think all religions are poisonous to rational thought, it's important to have at least some of that part of the population in their workforce to keep them aware of such concerns and opinions.
Barbera Lee is a steaming pile of $hit! Like most people say here...qualify for a position with your skills, background and education....regardless of your color. Saying anything else perpetuates the race issue! It's that simple!
Good to see Tim is focusing on the important things while Apple stock is in free fall. Good job Tim!
what a stupid comment. as if the CEO of a company can only do one thing at a time. as if the Wall Street games about stock are his fault or something he can address other than by creating enormous profit, which (hello) he's already doing.
you really need to get off your Cook hate. I dunno if it's because he's gay or what, but it's completely irrational.
That probably would have been Steve Jobs response too. But if congress or the White House says "jump" Cook says "how high?". Remember it was Apple hauled in front of congress over their tax practices when all sorts of companies are doing the exact same thing.
Cook doesn't dictate to congress who to haul into hearings. duh. since Apple is the biggest and most profitable public company in the history of our species, it's no surprise they chose Apple.
and the sentiment that Cook is a government bootlicker is beyond stupid -- this is the same CEO who told the government he's not going to weaken customer encryption.
I'll say again, the company looks mighty white to me. The public face of Apple vis a vis their public events is middle aged white guys recently added to by a few middle aged white women. The public face of Microsoft and Google most definitely is not.
so what? is a company not supposed to have white executives on stage? why?
IMO, the absolute worst thing about Apple is their political correctness. The complete absence of anything other than a politically Left viewpoint is harming their ability to comprehend how disgustingly weak these decisions make them look. The outward appearance is that Apple is an "easy mark".
nope, that's just nonsense. as a corp Apple is doing better than ever and better than any other public company ever. that unequivocally proves their left leaning policies aren't harming their business whatsoever. arguably it's helping their business, as demonstrated by the ever improving bottom line.
nope, that's just nonsense. as a corp Apple is doing better than ever and better than any other public company ever. that unequivocally proves their left leaning policies aren't harming their business whatsoever. arguably it's helping their business, as demonstrated by the ever improving bottom line.
it hurts, I know.
Trust me, I'm not "hurt" when Apple does well. I benefit.
Comments
That probably would have been Steve Jobs response too. But if congress or the White House says "jump" Cook says "how high?". Remember it was Apple hauled in front of congress over their tax practices when all sorts of companies are doing the exact same thing.
Have you ever been discriminated against, oppressed, or not considered for a position because you're left handed? Have you ever been called offensive names, insinuated you're not talented enough or capable enough for a job, because you're left handed? Are jokes and death threats made casually by friends and strangers alike because of your left handedness? Are their state and federal laws in place that restrict your agency and bodily autonomy due to being left handed? Do you feel scared to walk down a street at night because of your left handedness? Do you watch TV, movies, or talk with friends and family members and feel like you've somehow been ignored, left out, or are the unwanted, hated "other" because of your left handedness?!
Sorry, calling BS on your entire line of rationalization. If an employer insinuates that you are not talented enough, or capable enough for the job - guess what? You probably aren't. You see, the employer KNOWS the job, and you just spent 2-8 hours getting a tour of the company and a bare introduction to the job. Grow up, and move on. It happens to everyone. You are no special snowflake, put on the Big Boy Pants and move along to the next interview.
If you are gay, keep it to yourself. I manage to keep my sexual life completely isolated from my work life. No one knows who I have sex with, how often I have sex, or how I have sex. Guess what? Aside from you - NO ONE CARES. If you want to act like an over-sexed high school boy/girl; I suggest that you are the problem; not everyone else. Tim Cook is openly gay - but to watch him professionally, you would never know it. It's called being an adult.
Whether I am gay, or straight - I will not hire, nor will I tolerate people behaving unprofessionally at work. You will act, dress and carry yourself like a mature, professional adult - or go to work elsewhere. See, it's very easy, it's very clear and that's the way a professionally mature organization behaves.
Dre count as an employee? Seriously though, the company looks mighty white to me. As a shareholder, I believe they should diversify and do so more transparently. Amazed (not in a good way) at some of the comments here.
Dre count as an employee? Seriously though, the company looks mighty white to me. As a shareholder, I believe they should diversify and do so more transparently. Amazed (not in a good way) at some of the comments here.
It's not "mighty white." The U.S. is about 63% white. Apple is 55% white. Facts are wonderful things.
Seriously? This has been a problem with a company like Apple in the competitive, innovative, envelope-pushing, cut-throat businesses it is in?
Is it some fantasy, or do you have evidence? And, do share the evidence if you have it.
It's not "mighty white." The U.S. is about 63% white. Apple is 55% white. Facts are wonderful things.
I'll say again, the company looks mighty white to me. The public face of Apple vis a vis their public events is middle aged white guys recently added to by a few middle aged white women. The public face of Microsoft and Google most definitely is not.
And it's language like this which always tends to make talking about race so difficult in this country.
No, that would be the racial agitators and hucksters. Most people don't need to talk about race, because they don't care. I live adjacent to a town that is predominantly black and latino. Much of the town's population is at the lower end of the socioeconomic scale. I see people holding doors for each other, saying "please" and "thank you" and "have a good day." I am white, upper middle class. I never encounter racial tension on either side. I have several neighbors and friends who are black, and race rarely comes up. Why? Because we don't judge each other by the color of our skin. Most people don't, unlike what people like the insane Barbara Lee would like you to believe.
I'm an African-American technology professional with over 25 years of experience. I'm lucky enough to count Apple as my first job out of college. For over 15 years I've been working at another large very well known technology company. And I can tell you and others who have posted similar comments that race and hiring isn't that simple.
First, we in the black community are looking for access in hiring first and foremost. If a recruiter for a tech company is not even looking at your school, then your chances of landing at job at said company go down sharply. I'm a founding member of my company's African-American business professional organization. We speak a lot amongst ourselves and the broader community in general about our company's hiring and how we can give up and coming black professionals a better opportunity for employment. To that end, we are also helping to facilitate programs in colleges and even high schools to guide future graduates to the proper coursework and skills training they will need in order to make it in the world of technology. It's really facile to state that "well, the company should just hire the best people they find". That's easy to say but not what most large company Chief Human Resources Officers think about.
All very good actions. Looking in more minority-majority recruiting pools only makes sense in terms of finding the best talent. Certainly, helping people of color with access to hiring is great. But, then you go off the rails:
Why is it a good thing?
I don't see how.
I think you mean "Hey, Mr. Hiring Manager, you need to hire more black kids." In that vein, let me ask you: Why is diversity an end goal in itself? that's the problem...diversity above all else.
Wait, there is a "black caucus"?
Politicians align and campaign on the varying amount of pigment in their skin? and people vote for them on this basis? Like they were a bunch of tribes and the people in that tribe vote for the big man who gives them stuff? This will all end well.
Begining @ 4:15 - http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/ey8s68/democrats-2004--race-from-the-white-house---big-black-caucus
Have you ever been discriminated against, oppressed, or not considered for a position because you're left handed? Have you ever been called offensive names, insinuated you're not talented enough or capable enough for a job, because you're left handed? Are jokes and death threats made casually by friends and strangers alike because of your left handedness? Are their state and federal laws in place that restrict your agency and bodily autonomy due to being left handed? Do you feel scared to walk down a street at night because of your left handedness? Do you watch TV, movies, or talk with friends and family members and feel like you've somehow been ignored, left out, or are the unwanted, hated "other" because of your left handedness?
Don't go comparing being left handed (or left footed, whatever that means?) to being a person of color, a woman, someone who's disabled, someone of different sexual orientation, or any group that has genuinely and systematically been oppressed on a societal level, to the point that companies have to work twice as hard to ensure that they're hiring a fair and diverse group, otherwise every single company will continue to be saturated with white, able-bodied, cisgender, heterosexual men indefinitely.
Obviously, there are disadvantages to being left handed--a lot of stuff is built for right handed people, which can lead to accidents, which is grossly unfair and still needs to be addressed more adequately--but you aren't going to be overlooked for a job purely because of your left handedness. No one is going to say you're too stupid for a job because you're left handed. No one is going to ignore the school you went to when looking for hires because it's a "left handed school." You'll experience some difficulties in life due to being left handed, but you're not marginalized, victimized, nor oppressed, and therefore are not even remotely in the same category as people of color, women, or transgender people (transexualism is something entirely different, thanks).
Companies like Apple need to keep striving towards being inclusive and diverse, and being transparent about that diversity, precisely because of people like you, who don't even understand what a minority is.
You know, it never ends with people who think like you. Anyone who is not a straight, white male is a victim of oppression--by straight, white males. Diversity for diversity's sake is the problem. Apple and all other companies should recruit for talent. It only makes sense to recruit in all possible areas, including traditionally black schools.
But to you, everyone is a minority worthy of special protection. What he was asking in terms of "where does this end" is "shouldn't be target everyone?" It never ends. What are you going to do, target your recruiting efforts at:
You see, it never ends. As to the topic, Apple should tell Barbara Lee to piss off. She's shaking them down, pure and simple. And you're all for it.
IMO, the absolute worst thing about Apple is their political correctness. The complete absence of anything other than a politically Left viewpoint is harming their ability to comprehend how disgustingly weak these decisions make them look. The outward appearance is that Apple is an "easy mark".
Yes, where is their outreach for Christians? Conservatives? Mormons? That kind of diversity doesn't matter.
Even though I think all religions are poisonous to rational thought, it's important to have at least some of that part of the population in their workforce to keep them aware of such concerns and opinions.
what a stupid comment. as if the CEO of a company can only do one thing at a time. as if the Wall Street games about stock are his fault or something he can address other than by creating enormous profit, which (hello) he's already doing.
you really need to get off your Cook hate. I dunno if it's because he's gay or what, but it's completely irrational.
Cook doesn't dictate to congress who to haul into hearings. duh. since Apple is the biggest and most profitable public company in the history of our species, it's no surprise they chose Apple.
and the sentiment that Cook is a government bootlicker is beyond stupid -- this is the same CEO who told the government he's not going to weaken customer encryption.
so what? is a company not supposed to have white executives on stage? why?
nope, that's just nonsense. as a corp Apple is doing better than ever and better than any other public company ever. that unequivocally proves their left leaning policies aren't harming their business whatsoever. arguably it's helping their business, as demonstrated by the ever improving bottom line.
it hurts, I know.
Trust me, I'm not "hurt" when Apple does well. I benefit.