I can't recall if I posted that in this thread or not, but my hypothesis is that the highway will be the first place they will be used en masse, not the streets of a city like Mountain View. My vision is that we're see lanes of traffic for generally very long stretches be used for these vehicles. First in lesser congested areas and then in more congested areas. Perhaps even something like an HOV lane* where you opt to enter it and where it's sectioned off with cement barriers or brightly colored plastic poles attached to the highway. This will allow a clear demarcation for these autonomous vehicles which the faulty human element will need as both the "driver" and traditional cars on the road. Once that active trial is successful — which essentially means our cultural becomes used to it, which we'll know because that lane(s) becomes congested — we'll work to increase those lanes and reduce the other lanes by moving the barriers. Based on my understanding of human psychology and technology I predict this will be common in a couple decades.
* In case my comment of the HOV lane isn't creating the proper visual…
Lots of news that include Fiat and Apple Car comes readily to mind as a reasoning why one would might think that, but that's not exactly a sound way to make such a determination on a rumor.
Know what I want out of an Apple Car if one exists? No blind spots. Apple does work with super-strong glass, right? Well, make an entire RING of glass around the passengers.
I love the Tesla X’s cameras-as-side-mirrors idea, too. Cuts out 2’ from the width of the vehicle.
Know what I want out of an Apple Car if one exists? No blind spots. Apple does work with super-strong glass, right? Well, make an entire RING of glass around the passengers.
I love the Tesla X’s cameras-as-side-mirrors idea, too. Cuts out 2’ from the width of the vehicle.
Since our eyes face forward there will always be blind spots, but cars today have sensors that alert you when something is in your blindspot and this could be taken further to have cameras with dash displays that show you what's in your blindspot without ever cranking your head around to look behind you.
I can't recall if I posted that in this thread or not, but my hypothesis is that the highway will be the first place they will be used en masse, not the streets of a city like Mountain View. My vision is that we're see lanes of traffic for generally very long stretches be used for these vehicles. First in lesser congested areas and then in more congested areas. Perhaps even something like an HOV lane* where you opt to enter it and where it's sectioned off with cement barriers or brightly colored plastic poles attached to the highway. This will allow a clear demarcation for these autonomous vehicles which the faulty human element will need as both the "driver" and traditional cars on the road. Once that active trial is successful — which essentially means our cultural becomes used to it, which we'll know because that lane(s) becomes congested — we'll work to increase those lanes and reduce the other lanes by moving the barriers. Based on my understanding of human psychology and technology I predict this will be common in a couple decades.
* In case my comment of the HOV lane isn't creating the proper visual…
cars today have sensors that alert you when something is in your blindspot and this could be taken further to have cameras with dash displays that show you what's in your blindspot without ever cranking your head around to look behind you.
Even something as simple as a Metal Gear Solid-style “radar” display with the car in the center and simple block color representations of what’s around you.
I'm not sure why that seems odd. In 2015 the primary engine is still the internal combustion engine. The commercial drilling of petroleum began in the 1850's. While engines have improved and gas milage has improved the overall engine and overall design of how a car works has not changed that much.
We can't even get the US government to fund infrastructure repairs that should have been done 30 years ago let alone have them start setting up roads that can communicate with smart cars. Having the technology to do something and having it translate into mass production is very different.
At the end of 2014 about 712,000 highway capable electric plug-in vehicles have been sold worldwide. Which is 0.06% of stock vehicles. Consumers are not willing to pay a premium for a hybrid or electric vehicle. Major auto manufactures make these for one reason and one reason only, it allows these cars to figure into their fleets average mpg rating that the government is going to require. As an example the Chevy Volt can get averaged in with the Chevy Camaro that gets about 16mpg city. I believe the Volt gets whats considered a 38 MPGe.
It's taken BMW over 18 months to sell 26,000 units of the i3. Level 2 changing takes about 4-6 hours to fully charge a depleted vehicle. DC fast charging which is harder to find can give about 40 mile in 10 mins at a charging station. People don't want to be bothered with this nonsense.
As far as the technology, that is already here. If we are talking about Tim Cook and a few hundred other people driving around in a car that requires no human interaction to drive safely then yeah I don't see that as a big deal. If your talking mass production and mass acceptance, it's not going to happen while you and I are still above ground.
First people have to want them. I see nothing that indicates people are willing to change. We can't even get a moment to alternative forms of fuel. Second not only does the car need the technology, it needs something to communicate with, not just other cars like it. As I already stated technology like lane departure warnings and lane assist rely on clear lane markings without them it doesn't work, for it to truly work the roads would need sensors for it to be 100% effective.
It's simple the car is only half of the equation, unless the roads are setup with the same send and receive technology as the car it doesn't work. Without the infrastructure the car is relying on painted lines and cameras. The technology now doesn't work well in rain, doesn't work well in snow, doesn't work at all if the road is covered in snow. I'm not sure where you live but where I live we have things like rain.
As for adaptive cruise control and crash mitigation it is relying on a moving object in some case moving at 70-80 mph and that object may have nothing in the form of technology, so basically your car is now driving as well as the driver in front of you. So no we really haven't come very far in terms of technology.
Can't getting infrastructure to be modernized has nothing to do with the incapacity for us to fix it, and everything to do with entrenched Industrial revolution interests keeping the system broken. If they modernize the US, including the Power GRID and more, the major conglomerations in 20th century tech become the past and see the present quickly moving out ahead of them.
I got a real chuckle out of this rant from the 1970s, grandpa. Thanks.
Let's see what the mainstream car industry thinks.
So, in 5 years the tech should be on the market from many manufacturers, then twenty years after that, they will dominate the road. As they become a thing, expect roads standards to improve or change the meet the demands of driverless systems, such as new standards in signage for road work detours (so that detour signs that can understood by smart cars).
Push the starting date out to 2035 at the earliest. The entire commuter world will fight to move to electric/hybrids and until then the AI systems won't get any traction.
Push the starting date out to 2035 at the earliest. The entire commuter world will fight to move to electric/hybrids and until then the AI systems won't get any traction.
In short, 2020 -> 2035... 2040 -> 2055.
The starting date is already long behind us. Google starting testing in 2012 and there were 4 states with laws that allowed public road testing in 2014.
cars today have sensors that alert you when something is in your blindspot and this could be taken further to have cameras with dash displays that show you what's in your blindspot without ever cranking your head around to look behind you.
Even something as simple as a Metal Gear Solid-style “radar” display with the car in the center and simple block color representations of what’s around you.
I can absolutely see why Apple's chocolate would find its way into Telsa's peanut butter.
Anyway, all I hope for is that Apple DOES AWAY with the clumsy, cliched, RETARDED gas pump paradigm and develops a roll-up bumper or roll-over charging system that actually MAKES SENSE for an electric car.
These companies with no imagination drive me slightly insane.
Watch Apple's car have a stupid damn gas-pump plug dongle.
Anyway, all I hope for is that Apple DOES AWAY with the clumsy, cliched, RETARDED gas pump paradigm and develops a roll-up bumper or roll-over charging system that actually MAKES SENSE for an electric car.
These companies with no imagination drive me slightly insane.
Watch Apple's car have a stupid damn gas-pump plug dongle.
:mad:
I'm not sure I understand what you mean? You mean a pug interface on a cable? I'm guessing that will happen as that is how pretty much all of their devices are charged today.
How would you think outside the box so there would be nothing that needs to be plugged in to receive "fuel" for this future vehicle? I had an idea years ago that would use a system mounted to the floor of your garage so that when you get home it would automatically plug in from underneath without requiring you to do it manually and wouldn't require anything but pulling up far enough, within a single plan to line up, which could be achieved by also mounting small tire stops to your garbage floor. But that's about it and I'm not sure that access underneath is the most practical method considering how much dirt gets shot up into the undercarriage with use. But even if that does happen wouldn't' there still need to be a plus that one could use outside the home for manual charging?
I had an idea years ago that would use a system mounted to the floor of your garage so that when you get home it would automatically plug in from underneath without requiring you to do it manually...
I am sorry that I arrived so late to this party. I doubt that anybody will see this post.
A couple of things that you all need to know. Autonomous vehicles already exist. Connected vehicles will be mainstream in the 2016 model year. Several car companies will introduce autonomous vehicles before 2018 with them becoming common place by 2020. There needs to be no change to the current infrastructure for all of this to happen and road signs and pavement striping will become obsolete. There is a very detailed plan to push us toward autonomy by making standard driving way to expensive (Camera enforcement for awarding tickets to those who drive over the speed limit by 2 or more MPH, high insurance premiums for those who still want to control their own car).
It would take many pages of dialog to explain all of this, including references to existing examples. There isn't enough time or space to do that in this forum. You have to trust the fact that the future is already here, it is well planned out and beginning to fall into place. The real question is whether Apple wants to jump in with both feet. If so, they have a better than average chance to become a major player in this space. If you have been paying close attention to their acquisition and development pattern, they have already made the proper investments in technology and resources to be credible in their effort.
Tesla’s building self-plugging apparatus... apparatii? for its lineup.
[video]
That looks all sorts of wrong to me with it starting pointing straight up some sort of sea snake on Cybertron.
For starters, it shouldn't look creepy. Second, it seems to be both slow and have a very short range of usability. Finally, a much simpler solution for an a self plugging device would simply mount a device on a wall or on standing frame that will use sensors and radios to automatically imitate the charging connection.
For example, you park in your garage and the point you turn off the car is when a BT beacon is sent out looking for fuel access. If the beacon is heard by your home system it responds with its unique identifier for automate charging — this can also be initiated manually at the "pump" from inside the cab. This completes the handshake which then opens up the charging port for access, if that is successful your car sends another signal to the charging device to begin its connection. Since a particular model car will be within a very small height range window it will adjust its height (if need be) to match that model and then proceed to use laser guiding to find the port interface from side-to-side. Once that is lined up it then telescopes into place. An additional option to alter the angle of the male end of the plug may be needed, but the plug could also be made to fit within a large range of angles.
What I'm describing above is for using the standard, manual charge port but I would imagine that an automated solution will have a separate port so each can be optimized for the human or automated controller options.
Tesla’s building self-plugging apparatus... apparatii? for its lineup.
Yeah, I've seen that, and I almost mentioned it, guess I should have. Besides being grossly phallic, it's way too complicated for what it does. Just make it a drive-over type thing and be done with it. I get it, Tesla's trying to make it cool and everything, but having to have some chrome probe precisely line up with a tiny port is imo, trying to shove a solution into a problem that shouldn't even be a problem in the first place. But, you know, I'm just a bro on the internet.
I am sorry that I arrived so late to this party. I doubt that anybody will see this post.
A couple of things that you all need to know. Autonomous vehicles already exist. Connected vehicles will be mainstream in the 2016 model year. Several car companies will introduce autonomous vehicles before 2018 with them becoming common place by 2020. There needs to be no change to the current infrastructure for all of this to happen and road signs and pavement striping will become obsolete. There is a very detailed plan to push us toward autonomy by making standard driving way to expensive (Camera enforcement for awarding tickets to those who drive over the speed limit by 2 or more MPH, high insurance premiums for those who still want to control their own car).
It would take many pages of dialog to explain all of this, including references to existing examples. There isn't enough time or space to do that in this forum. You have to trust the fact that the future is already here, it is well planned out and beginning to fall into place. The real question is whether Apple wants to jump in with both feet. If so, they have a better than average chance to become a major player in this space. If you have been paying close attention to their acquisition and development pattern, they have already made the proper investments in technology and resources to be credible in their effort.
I say, you can't be too late for anything. Although, I'm often late for everything:-D
What I want to know is, how do you know that self driving cars will be common place by 2020? Can you peer deep into the future? I'm not saying they definitely won't, but what I think is that self driving cars should be illegal, at least until they work out the kinks. Google has in fact started testing self driving cars in the wild, and IMHO it's been a disaster. There have been tons of accidents caused by these cars, and there will be tons more. Take this Wikipedia page:
Quote:
As of July 2015, Google's 23 self-driving cars have been involved in 14 minor traffic accidents on public roads,[21] but Google maintains that in all cases the vehicle itself was not at fault because the cars were either being manually driven or the driver of another vehicle was at fault.
Google says that, does it? Hmm. That's very interesting and not at all something Google says ALL THE TIME. Nope. Nothing like that has ever happenedbefore. The Guardian tries to explain:
Quote:
But if Google’s self-driving algorithms are not to blame, why are its cars experiencing so many accidents?
One explanation could be the spinning laser scanners on their roofs, says Raj Rajkumar, designer of several autonomous cars at Carnegie Mellon University, including the winner of a 2007 self-driving vehicle competition run by Darpa, a US military research agency. “It is a distraction, and when people get distracted, I can imagine behaviours changing,” he says.
If it's a distraction, then just like texting while driving, it should be illegal.
Quote:
“Another reason could be that Google cars have the Google logo splashed on them, saying they are self-driving cars. People looking at that could be distracted from their normal mode of operations,” he adds.
The Google logo is inherently evil after all. But think of how creepy it would be to look inside a car and see no one. Brrrrrr.
Quote:
Of course, the promise of self-driving cars is that they will reduce – or even eliminate – road traffic fatalities.
Of course. That explains the high fatality rates.
Bah-wah?
Humans are prone to error. Computer programs are made by humans. Computer programs can have errors. Of course, humans also have the power to reason, as opposed to machines. If something out of the ordinary were to happen, who would be better equipped to handle it? The machine, or the reasoning human being? If your intent is to save lives, but the effect is actually endangering them, stop doing that and think it through.
When the day is over though, self driving cars may very well become a thing. Just like how BBM messages looked like a cool new thing that would never take off, but became the next big thing. It may be dangerous now, but someone will find a way to make it happen. But as long as we don't know how to do it safely, keep it to yourself, Google. Stop endangering other people with your experiment. Keep it in a closed course. Keep it safe, and sane.
Comments
I can't recall if I posted that in this thread or not, but my hypothesis is that the highway will be the first place they will be used en masse, not the streets of a city like Mountain View. My vision is that we're see lanes of traffic for generally very long stretches be used for these vehicles. First in lesser congested areas and then in more congested areas. Perhaps even something like an HOV lane* where you opt to enter it and where it's sectioned off with cement barriers or brightly colored plastic poles attached to the highway. This will allow a clear demarcation for these autonomous vehicles which the faulty human element will need as both the "driver" and traditional cars on the road. Once that active trial is successful — which essentially means our cultural becomes used to it, which we'll know because that lane(s) becomes congested — we'll work to increase those lanes and reduce the other lanes by moving the barriers. Based on my understanding of human psychology and technology I predict this will be common in a couple decades.
* In case my comment of the HOV lane isn't creating the proper visual…
Why would it look like a Fiat?
Lots of news that include Fiat and Apple Car comes readily to mind as a reasoning why one would might think that, but that's not exactly a sound way to make such a determination on a rumor.
I love the Tesla X’s cameras-as-side-mirrors idea, too. Cuts out 2’ from the width of the vehicle.
Since our eyes face forward there will always be blind spots, but cars today have sensors that alert you when something is in your blindspot and this could be taken further to have cameras with dash displays that show you what's in your blindspot without ever cranking your head around to look behind you.
I can't recall if I posted that in this thread or not, but my hypothesis is that the highway will be the first place they will be used en masse, not the streets of a city like Mountain View. My vision is that we're see lanes of traffic for generally very long stretches be used for these vehicles. First in lesser congested areas and then in more congested areas. Perhaps even something like an HOV lane* where you opt to enter it and where it's sectioned off with cement barriers or brightly colored plastic poles attached to the highway. This will allow a clear demarcation for these autonomous vehicles which the faulty human element will need as both the "driver" and traditional cars on the road. Once that active trial is successful — which essentially means our cultural becomes used to it, which we'll know because that lane(s) becomes congested — we'll work to increase those lanes and reduce the other lanes by moving the barriers. Based on my understanding of human psychology and technology I predict this will be common in a couple decades.
* In case my comment of the HOV lane isn't creating the proper visual…
Your "AV" lanes make perfect sense till we're culturally acceptable to autonomous vehicles. And highways would be the first logical place for them.
Even something as simple as a Metal Gear Solid-style “radar” display with the car in the center and simple block color representations of what’s around you.
Can't getting infrastructure to be modernized has nothing to do with the incapacity for us to fix it, and everything to do with entrenched Industrial revolution interests keeping the system broken. If they modernize the US, including the Power GRID and more, the major conglomerations in 20th century tech become the past and see the present quickly moving out ahead of them.
Push the starting date out to 2035 at the earliest. The entire commuter world will fight to move to electric/hybrids and until then the AI systems won't get any traction.
In short, 2020 -> 2035... 2040 -> 2055.
The starting date is already long behind us. Google starting testing in 2012 and there were 4 states with laws that allowed public road testing in 2014.
How I loved that game.
The idea there would be an extra free seat in a cab, meaning more money per.
Taxi fares are not usually based on a per-person basis.
I can absolutely see why Apple's chocolate would find its way into Telsa's peanut butter.
Anyway, all I hope for is that Apple DOES AWAY with the clumsy, cliched, RETARDED gas pump paradigm and develops a roll-up bumper or roll-over charging system that actually MAKES SENSE for an electric car.
These companies with no imagination drive me slightly insane.
Watch Apple's car have a stupid damn gas-pump plug dongle.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean? You mean a pug interface on a cable? I'm guessing that will happen as that is how pretty much all of their devices are charged today.
How would you think outside the box so there would be nothing that needs to be plugged in to receive "fuel" for this future vehicle? I had an idea years ago that would use a system mounted to the floor of your garage so that when you get home it would automatically plug in from underneath without requiring you to do it manually and wouldn't require anything but pulling up far enough, within a single plan to line up, which could be achieved by also mounting small tire stops to your garbage floor. But that's about it and I'm not sure that access underneath is the most practical method considering how much dirt gets shot up into the undercarriage with use. But even if that does happen wouldn't' there still need to be a plus that one could use outside the home for manual charging?
I'm not sure I understand what you mean?
Apparently you do.
Apparently you do.
Tesla’s building self-plugging apparatus... apparatii? for its lineup.
I am sorry that I arrived so late to this party. I doubt that anybody will see this post.
A couple of things that you all need to know. Autonomous vehicles already exist. Connected vehicles will be mainstream in the 2016 model year. Several car companies will introduce autonomous vehicles before 2018 with them becoming common place by 2020. There needs to be no change to the current infrastructure for all of this to happen and road signs and pavement striping will become obsolete. There is a very detailed plan to push us toward autonomy by making standard driving way to expensive (Camera enforcement for awarding tickets to those who drive over the speed limit by 2 or more MPH, high insurance premiums for those who still want to control their own car).
It would take many pages of dialog to explain all of this, including references to existing examples. There isn't enough time or space to do that in this forum. You have to trust the fact that the future is already here, it is well planned out and beginning to fall into place. The real question is whether Apple wants to jump in with both feet. If so, they have a better than average chance to become a major player in this space. If you have been paying close attention to their acquisition and development pattern, they have already made the proper investments in technology and resources to be credible in their effort.
That looks all sorts of wrong to me with it starting pointing straight up some sort of sea snake on Cybertron.
For starters, it shouldn't look creepy. Second, it seems to be both slow and have a very short range of usability. Finally, a much simpler solution for an a self plugging device would simply mount a device on a wall or on standing frame that will use sensors and radios to automatically imitate the charging connection.
For example, you park in your garage and the point you turn off the car is when a BT beacon is sent out looking for fuel access. If the beacon is heard by your home system it responds with its unique identifier for automate charging — this can also be initiated manually at the "pump" from inside the cab. This completes the handshake which then opens up the charging port for access, if that is successful your car sends another signal to the charging device to begin its connection. Since a particular model car will be within a very small height range window it will adjust its height (if need be) to match that model and then proceed to use laser guiding to find the port interface from side-to-side. Once that is lined up it then telescopes into place. An additional option to alter the angle of the male end of the plug may be needed, but the plug could also be made to fit within a large range of angles.
What I'm describing above is for using the standard, manual charge port but I would imagine that an automated solution will have a separate port so each can be optimized for the human or automated controller options.
Tesla’s building self-plugging apparatus... apparatii? for its lineup.
Yeah, I've seen that, and I almost mentioned it, guess I should have. Besides being grossly phallic, it's way too complicated for what it does. Just make it a drive-over type thing and be done with it. I get it, Tesla's trying to make it cool and everything, but having to have some chrome probe precisely line up with a tiny port is imo, trying to shove a solution into a problem that shouldn't even be a problem in the first place. But, you know, I'm just a bro on the internet.
I am sorry that I arrived so late to this party. I doubt that anybody will see this post.
A couple of things that you all need to know. Autonomous vehicles already exist. Connected vehicles will be mainstream in the 2016 model year. Several car companies will introduce autonomous vehicles before 2018 with them becoming common place by 2020. There needs to be no change to the current infrastructure for all of this to happen and road signs and pavement striping will become obsolete. There is a very detailed plan to push us toward autonomy by making standard driving way to expensive (Camera enforcement for awarding tickets to those who drive over the speed limit by 2 or more MPH, high insurance premiums for those who still want to control their own car).
It would take many pages of dialog to explain all of this, including references to existing examples. There isn't enough time or space to do that in this forum. You have to trust the fact that the future is already here, it is well planned out and beginning to fall into place. The real question is whether Apple wants to jump in with both feet. If so, they have a better than average chance to become a major player in this space. If you have been paying close attention to their acquisition and development pattern, they have already made the proper investments in technology and resources to be credible in their effort.
I say, you can't be too late for anything. Although, I'm often late for everything:-D
What I want to know is, how do you know that self driving cars will be common place by 2020? Can you peer deep into the future? I'm not saying they definitely won't, but what I think is that self driving cars should be illegal, at least until they work out the kinks. Google has in fact started testing self driving cars in the wild, and IMHO it's been a disaster. There have been tons of accidents caused by these cars, and there will be tons more. Take this Wikipedia page:
Google says that, does it? Hmm. That's very interesting and not at all something Google says ALL THE TIME. Nope. Nothing like that has ever happened before. The Guardian tries to explain:
But if Google’s self-driving algorithms are not to blame, why are its cars experiencing so many accidents?
One explanation could be the spinning laser scanners on their roofs, says Raj Rajkumar, designer of several autonomous cars at Carnegie Mellon University, including the winner of a 2007 self-driving vehicle competition run by Darpa, a US military research agency. “It is a distraction, and when people get distracted, I can imagine behaviours changing,” he says.
If it's a distraction, then just like texting while driving, it should be illegal.
The Google logo is inherently evil after all. But think of how creepy it would be to look inside a car and see no one. Brrrrrr.
Of course. That explains the high fatality rates.
Bah-wah?
Humans are prone to error. Computer programs are made by humans. Computer programs can have errors. Of course, humans also have the power to reason, as opposed to machines. If something out of the ordinary were to happen, who would be better equipped to handle it? The machine, or the reasoning human being? If your intent is to save lives, but the effect is actually endangering them, stop doing that and think it through.
When the day is over though, self driving cars may very well become a thing. Just like how BBM messages looked like a cool new thing that would never take off, but became the next big thing. It may be dangerous now, but someone will find a way to make it happen. But as long as we don't know how to do it safely, keep it to yourself, Google. Stop endangering other people with your experiment. Keep it in a closed course. Keep it safe, and sane.