And Nintendo capitalised off that success and produced the Wii U, and how is that going for them?
The failure of the Wii U had NOTHING to do with the power of the hardware (it actually can output beautiful visuals in the right hands, more than good enough for 90% of gamers) but everything to do with Nintendo's shitty marketing (people didn't even know if it was a new console or some kind of add-on) both with the look and the naming. I'm extremely happy with my Wii U, as every game I have bought is AAA quality, and I've loved. But it's sad that they didn't know how to market the thing worth a damn.
Nintendo has the best(only) ideas is gaming(Everything else is a knockoff with ZERO originality). Nintendo just sucks at marketing and implementation. They created this social TV platform that was genius, but never promoted it or updated it. Apple could really use them but I heard they don't sell their company to anyone.
iPhone's closest competitor was the Nintendo DS which had a touchscreen and app store before Apple. Nintendo just never evolved from there and DS owners moved to iPhone. Outside of their game developers and engineers, Nintendo is beyond stupid.
Well, DS is sitting on 154 million consoles sold, which is not bad for specialized device.
People game on iPhone/Android because they have iPhone/Android. I really don't think that too many - if any - will purchase iPhone with gaming on their mind. Maybe if strong Nintendo franchises - not just historic but also current titles - start appearing on iOS, but otherwise, I'll be surprised to see this happening.
Beside that, I'd not agree that Nintendo is the only one original gaming company around. In fact, I think they have run out of ideas long time ago. They stick to updated versions of their own franchises, but - save for Splatoon - we haven't seen many new ideas and franchises coming from their camp. Eventually, it is down to personal taste in gaming. I like good relaxing not-to-be-taken-too-seriously platformer like Mario or Rachet, but I also like good FPS, or racer, or complex fighting game like Tekken... something that Nintendo doesn't really excel at.
iOS games cater to casual gamers. And so will the new AppleTV.
The difference is that the iPhone/iPod could do what the Gameboy could but not vice versa. The gaming consoles can do much of what the ATV can. Casual gaming usually takes place outside of the home.
Bit of a weird graph as I never played a game that looked better on the X360 than the PS3.
Also, I'm not convinced that casual gaming in the living room is that much of an opportunity. Maybe the odd party game, but the existing consoles are so far ahead of where the Ax processors are, as well as being entrenched and with the mature development community. Just don't see Apple's angle there.
Not slamming the ?tv, as I like the ?tv a lot.
GPU in X360 was more advanced. PS3 GPU had pixel-rate advantage, if memory serves... but most if not all advanced features were X360 side. PS3 did balance that with CELL SPUs which were capable of offloading GPU to some extend... but it required a lot of coding effort. The other thing was development platform vs. ported platform... having head-start, X360 was more often development platform, at least in early years... this trend changed later on and multiplatform games looking better on PS3 did start emerging, like L. A. Noir, Bad Company 2 (I think, but it was long time ago already)...
... but either way, difference was usually not earth shattering. You'd have to check detailed face-off analysis from Digital Foundry to find out differences, they were often not perceivable by just playing the game.
Bit of a weird graph as I never played a game that looked better on the X360 than the PS3.
Also, I'm not convinced that casual gaming in the living room is that much of an opportunity. Maybe the odd party game, but the existing consoles are so far ahead of where the Ax processors are, as well as being entrenched and with the mature development community. Just don't see Apple's angle there.
Not slamming the ?tv, as I like the ?tv a lot.
I've thought about this a lot, and I can't agree. We're a Sony gaming house here. I waited to buy the PS4. The PS3 we've had for a long time has good graphics and game play. Pretty sophisticated games are available. The newer PS4 has noticeably better graphics, but the gameplay isn't all that different.
Overall, am I happy we bought the PS4? Sure, games that aren't available for the PS3 are out. But as for gameplay, while I wouldn't say it's a toss up, isn't 8 years better either.
I've read in a number of places that the iPhone 6 is close to the previous generation, and that the ipad is even, in both CPU and GPU performance, and I believe it, according to my experiences on all the systems.
If the new atv is equal to the PS3, that would give a very good gaming experience. My controllers for iOS have gotten better each generation, though the newest one is based on the XBox One instead of the PS3, unfortunately.
Apple has a lot of advantages here. If with iCloud and gaming center, they can hold all of our game info, and move it to whichever system we're playing on, then we can begin a game on the iPhone, or ipad, and move to the atv without a problem. That would be better than any other gaming system right now. And the way the PS4 and XBox One work, almost every time you go on, there's some sort of large update that takes forever to download and install that you can't bypass. Their gaming networks are so slow, it's a crime. But even if we had to download that for the atv, as long as we had a decent connection, it would go much faster. And Apple doesn't work that way.
Another advantage is that Apple has been upgrading the atv about every 3 years. The ps2 to PS3 generation was 5 years, and the PS3 to PS4 was 8! This would allow the at. To gain performance rapidly. No problem for the games either. PC gaming had that solved 20 years ago. Just allow the game to function at the highest level it can in the device it's working in. Console makers don't do that, and gaming developers don't do that either, because developing a new console take a long time, for some reason, and it's expensive to do. As most have been losing money on them, they wait as long as possible. But Sony has made gobs of profit on the PS4 and games from the beginning, so we'll see if they surprise us 3 years from now.
Not gonna happen. Console makers LOSE money on hardware (as its ridiculously over powered at launch) so that they can make it up on software. Apple is not going to sell something it loses money on.
Sony has been making money on every console they make with the PS4. This generation is being very good to them.
The failure of the Wii U had NOTHING to do with the power of the hardware (it actually can output beautiful visuals in the right hands, more than good enough for 90% of gamers) but everything to do with Nintendo's shitty marketing (people didn't even know if it was a new console or some kind of add-on) both with the look and the naming. I'm extremely happy with my Wii U, as every game I have bought is AAA quality, and I've loved. But it's sad that they didn't know how to market the thing worth a damn.
That isn't entirely true. A number of developers stated that the power of the console was holding them back. The main problem though, is the crappy console itself. That dumb tablet-like controller turned most people off. My daughter, and her friends, have always been big gamers (she's almost 24 now, and still is). While every one has a Wii, none of them bought the Wii U.
The fact is that most gamers simply don't like the inequality of that controller. You can go to the gaming mags and read that yourself. Many major developers have stopped producing games for the Wii U.
The failure of the Wii U had NOTHING to do with the power of the hardware (it actually can output beautiful visuals in the right hands, more than good enough for 90% of gamers) but everything to do with Nintendo's shitty marketing (people didn't even know if it was a new console or some kind of add-on) both with the look and the naming. I'm extremely happy with my Wii U, as every game I have bought is AAA quality, and I've loved. But it's sad that they didn't know how to market the thing worth a damn.
So you are saying that the PS3 and XBox 360 didn't do as well as the Wii due to marketing?
Well, DS is sitting on 154 million consoles sold, which is not bad for specialized device.
People game on iPhone/Android because they have iPhone/Android. I really don't think that too many - if any - will purchase iPhone with gaming on their mind. Maybe if strong Nintendo franchises - not just historic but also current titles - start appearing on iOS, but otherwise, I'll be surprised to see this happening.
Beside that, I'd not agree that Nintendo is the only one original gaming company around. In fact, I think they have run out of ideas long time ago. They stick to updated versions of their own franchises, but - save for Splatoon - we haven't seen many new ideas and franchises coming from their camp. Eventually, it is down to personal taste in gaming. I like good relaxing not-to-be-taken-too-seriously platformer like Mario or Rachet, but I also like good FPS, or racer, or complex fighting game like Tekken... something that Nintendo doesn't really excel at.
Yeah, but the 3DS has sold poorly when compared to the DS generation. In fact, sales have been half, and dropping. Old players don't o,at newer games, and newer players don't play a lot of old games, so they a lot like console generations. Old players aren't that viable today. The question is how many players are being used now, and how many people using them are still buying games.
It's interesting that for a good five years now, in their financial reports, Nintendo has stated that their biggest competitor is Apple, not Microsoft or Sony. Given that, it's criminal that they have been so stubborn that they couldn't see all of their problems coming. The iPhone, and I suppose, Android phones, have destroyed their mobile franchise. So early this year, they announced the licensing program for characters for iOS and Android, and more recently have given hints that they themselves will, at some point, have games for iOS, and maybe Android,
Better than nothing, but years too late. I understand that more money is made off hardware than software, in the sense that hardware is much more expensive. But reality must intrude sometime.
And control it how? By looking down at it and not at the TV?
Your iphone has accelerometers, and gyroscopes. You might remember that one of the things that made the Wii popular was these controllers, which, at first, people were doubting would be popular. So if you get a case with a wrist strap, designed for gaming, you could use the phone as a 3D controller. It could be used to change game setting with, and a number of other features.
I'm sure that the screen could be used as a button as well.
Really, imagination should be at play here. There are side buttons as well. While my 6+ is a bit big for it, it would still work.
As a racing controller, it's pretty good, as long as lag isn't a problem. Just an example.
Your iphone has accelerometers, and gyroscopes. You might remember that one of the things that made the Wii popular was these controllers, which, at first, people were doubting would be popular. So if you get a case with a wrist strap, designed for gaming, you could use the phone as a 3D controller. It could be used to change game setting with, and a number of other features.
I'm sure that the screen could be used as a button as well.
Really, imagination should be at play here. There are side buttons as well. While my 6+ is a bit big for it, it would still work.
As a racing controller, it's pretty good, as long as lag isn't a problem. Just an example.
That sounds so incredibly lame. A thin rectangle with no physical buttons as a controller for casual lounge games. No way in hell will this be a killer feature that drives sales. It sounds like an afterthought, and that's what it'll be.
I'm responding to someone that claimed that all games that work on iOS would work on ?tv. Not all iOS games work with connected game controllers.
No, not all, but most of those are older games. But more games are usable all the time. I'd bet that if Apple does do this, we'll see a lot of games upgraded for controllers. It's easy, just a few lines of code, according to Apple, using the controller APIs.
That sounds so incredibly lame. A thin rectangle with no physical buttons as a controller for casual lounge games. No way in hell will this be a killer feature that drives sales. It sounds like an afterthought, and that's what it'll be.
I don't suppose you really play many games. If you do, what do you have? We play a lot here. And as I mentioned, there are buttons.
All your iOS games will work on the AppleTV. You know the ones you bought already.
9to5 is saying the new AppleTV will run full iOS9
I don't think that's the killer feature.
To me the killer feature is the tremendous pool of talent in the iOS development community. A lot of devs I talk to seem to think Apps have kind of peaked. We still see new and original Apps, but not at the pace we used to.
Give these developers access to an Apple TV with a good processor and suddenly they've got a new market to start developing for. I think all the major iOS game companies will be jumping over themselves to get their new ideas onto an Apple TV. It'll be like the early days of The App Store all over again, this time with the Apple TV.
Comments
And Nintendo capitalised off that success and produced the Wii U, and how is that going for them?
The failure of the Wii U had NOTHING to do with the power of the hardware (it actually can output beautiful visuals in the right hands, more than good enough for 90% of gamers) but everything to do with Nintendo's shitty marketing (people didn't even know if it was a new console or some kind of add-on) both with the look and the naming. I'm extremely happy with my Wii U, as every game I have bought is AAA quality, and I've loved. But it's sad that they didn't know how to market the thing worth a damn.
Well, DS is sitting on 154 million consoles sold, which is not bad for specialized device.
People game on iPhone/Android because they have iPhone/Android. I really don't think that too many - if any - will purchase iPhone with gaming on their mind. Maybe if strong Nintendo franchises - not just historic but also current titles - start appearing on iOS, but otherwise, I'll be surprised to see this happening.
Beside that, I'd not agree that Nintendo is the only one original gaming company around. In fact, I think they have run out of ideas long time ago. They stick to updated versions of their own franchises, but - save for Splatoon - we haven't seen many new ideas and franchises coming from their camp. Eventually, it is down to personal taste in gaming. I like good relaxing not-to-be-taken-too-seriously platformer like Mario or Rachet, but I also like good FPS, or racer, or complex fighting game like Tekken... something that Nintendo doesn't really excel at.
All the ones that work by touching the screen? they'll work on my TV that doesn't have touch sensitivity?
Good luck with that.
Who says you wont be able to interact with your ios device as the controller
The difference is that the iPhone/iPod could do what the Gameboy could but not vice versa. The gaming consoles can do much of what the ATV can. Casual gaming usually takes place outside of the home.
GPU in X360 was more advanced. PS3 GPU had pixel-rate advantage, if memory serves... but most if not all advanced features were X360 side. PS3 did balance that with CELL SPUs which were capable of offloading GPU to some extend... but it required a lot of coding effort. The other thing was development platform vs. ported platform... having head-start, X360 was more often development platform, at least in early years... this trend changed later on and multiplatform games looking better on PS3 did start emerging, like L. A. Noir, Bad Company 2 (I think, but it was long time ago already)...
... but either way, difference was usually not earth shattering. You'd have to check detailed face-off analysis from Digital Foundry to find out differences, they were often not perceivable by just playing the game.
Who says you wont be able to interact with your ios device as the controller
What'd be the point of that? Just use your iOS device.
And control it how? By looking down at it and not at the TV?
I've thought about this a lot, and I can't agree. We're a Sony gaming house here. I waited to buy the PS4. The PS3 we've had for a long time has good graphics and game play. Pretty sophisticated games are available. The newer PS4 has noticeably better graphics, but the gameplay isn't all that different.
Overall, am I happy we bought the PS4? Sure, games that aren't available for the PS3 are out. But as for gameplay, while I wouldn't say it's a toss up, isn't 8 years better either.
I've read in a number of places that the iPhone 6 is close to the previous generation, and that the ipad is even, in both CPU and GPU performance, and I believe it, according to my experiences on all the systems.
If the new atv is equal to the PS3, that would give a very good gaming experience. My controllers for iOS have gotten better each generation, though the newest one is based on the XBox One instead of the PS3, unfortunately.
Apple has a lot of advantages here. If with iCloud and gaming center, they can hold all of our game info, and move it to whichever system we're playing on, then we can begin a game on the iPhone, or ipad, and move to the atv without a problem. That would be better than any other gaming system right now. And the way the PS4 and XBox One work, almost every time you go on, there's some sort of large update that takes forever to download and install that you can't bypass. Their gaming networks are so slow, it's a crime. But even if we had to download that for the atv, as long as we had a decent connection, it would go much faster. And Apple doesn't work that way.
Another advantage is that Apple has been upgrading the atv about every 3 years. The ps2 to PS3 generation was 5 years, and the PS3 to PS4 was 8! This would allow the at. To gain performance rapidly. No problem for the games either. PC gaming had that solved 20 years ago. Just allow the game to function at the highest level it can in the device it's working in. Console makers don't do that, and gaming developers don't do that either, because developing a new console take a long time, for some reason, and it's expensive to do. As most have been losing money on them, they wait as long as possible. But Sony has made gobs of profit on the PS4 and games from the beginning, so we'll see if they surprise us 3 years from now.
Perhaps you missed the part that says that they will use the same game controllers that work now with iOS? I have several.
Sony has been making money on every console they make with the PS4. This generation is being very good to them.
That isn't entirely true. A number of developers stated that the power of the console was holding them back. The main problem though, is the crappy console itself. That dumb tablet-like controller turned most people off. My daughter, and her friends, have always been big gamers (she's almost 24 now, and still is). While every one has a Wii, none of them bought the Wii U.
The fact is that most gamers simply don't like the inequality of that controller. You can go to the gaming mags and read that yourself. Many major developers have stopped producing games for the Wii U.
So you are saying that the PS3 and XBox 360 didn't do as well as the Wii due to marketing?
Yeah, but the 3DS has sold poorly when compared to the DS generation. In fact, sales have been half, and dropping. Old players don't o,at newer games, and newer players don't play a lot of old games, so they a lot like console generations. Old players aren't that viable today. The question is how many players are being used now, and how many people using them are still buying games.
It's interesting that for a good five years now, in their financial reports, Nintendo has stated that their biggest competitor is Apple, not Microsoft or Sony. Given that, it's criminal that they have been so stubborn that they couldn't see all of their problems coming. The iPhone, and I suppose, Android phones, have destroyed their mobile franchise. So early this year, they announced the licensing program for characters for iOS and Android, and more recently have given hints that they themselves will, at some point, have games for iOS, and maybe Android,
Better than nothing, but years too late. I understand that more money is made off hardware than software, in the sense that hardware is much more expensive. But reality must intrude sometime.
Your iphone has accelerometers, and gyroscopes. You might remember that one of the things that made the Wii popular was these controllers, which, at first, people were doubting would be popular. So if you get a case with a wrist strap, designed for gaming, you could use the phone as a 3D controller. It could be used to change game setting with, and a number of other features.
I'm sure that the screen could be used as a button as well.
Really, imagination should be at play here. There are side buttons as well. While my 6+ is a bit big for it, it would still work.
As a racing controller, it's pretty good, as long as lag isn't a problem. Just an example.
Perhaps you missed the part that says that they will use the same game controllers that work now with iOS? I have several.
I'm responding to someone that claimed that all games that work on iOS would work on ?tv. Not all iOS games work with connected game controllers.
Your iphone has accelerometers, and gyroscopes. You might remember that one of the things that made the Wii popular was these controllers, which, at first, people were doubting would be popular. So if you get a case with a wrist strap, designed for gaming, you could use the phone as a 3D controller. It could be used to change game setting with, and a number of other features.
I'm sure that the screen could be used as a button as well.
Really, imagination should be at play here. There are side buttons as well. While my 6+ is a bit big for it, it would still work.
As a racing controller, it's pretty good, as long as lag isn't a problem. Just an example.
That sounds so incredibly lame. A thin rectangle with no physical buttons as a controller for casual lounge games. No way in hell will this be a killer feature that drives sales. It sounds like an afterthought, and that's what it'll be.
No, not all, but most of those are older games. But more games are usable all the time. I'd bet that if Apple does do this, we'll see a lot of games upgraded for controllers. It's easy, just a few lines of code, according to Apple, using the controller APIs.
I don't suppose you really play many games. If you do, what do you have? We play a lot here. And as I mentioned, there are buttons.
^ What buttons? The volume up and down? Not sure Apple even allows you to use them, and they're hardly ergonomic.
What will be the killer feature?
All your iOS games will work on the AppleTV. You know the ones you bought already.
9to5 is saying the new AppleTV will run full iOS9
I don't think that's the killer feature.
To me the killer feature is the tremendous pool of talent in the iOS development community. A lot of devs I talk to seem to think Apps have kind of peaked. We still see new and original Apps, but not at the pace we used to.
Give these developers access to an Apple TV with a good processor and suddenly they've got a new market to start developing for. I think all the major iOS game companies will be jumping over themselves to get their new ideas onto an Apple TV. It'll be like the early days of The App Store all over again, this time with the Apple TV.