I was trying to reply to a comment on here but couldn't find it after I logged in.
I love BMW's. They're my favorite make. Amazing cars. Drive beautifully. Even look beautiful. But, the BMW i3 is the second-ugliest car I have ever seen (the first is the Nissan Leaf). I agree that it was great that they broke a lot of conventions building it, but they should've gone the same route as Tesla and designed a car that actually has style. I'm currently on a list to pickup a 3-Series BMW in the next year (I put money down on a military sales program), but when the Tesla Model III is revealed and if it looks better, I'll pickup one of those instead!
--Lex
Sadly I think BMW made it look less attractive than their existing cars on purpose. What they should have instead done is made electric versions of their existing lineup with an i in the marketing as they are doing now. Literally used the same body shape in a light material.
Two obvious markets.... Parents who want to keep their kids safe. Self driving cars are already better (safer) than teenage drivers.
Uber and other taxi companies would love to take their highest cost item out of the equation and make more profit.
Autonomous cars are already much safer than any human demographic. There are so many computers in cars right now, adding more that all do checks on the other constantly to make sure they are working properly isn't an issue. With a human driver, glancing down at the radio or air control system or to grab your drink or because something piques your interest on the sidewalk or your kid screams loudly, or whatever, can be deadly if it happens at the right moment. I'm talking about otherwise "safe" drivers that aren't texting whilst driving or even using handsfree calling.
But this will not come easy. People will be scared despite statistics on safety because people like to have the perception of control even if they know it's less safe because people are insecure by nature. I am certain this will come in 'my' generation but it will have to come slowly. States will have to edge into it. First with highways roads, perhaps even isolated from the regular traffic with cement dividers, like on some HOV lanes (below) for certain stretches of highway. That will eventually increase and they will slowly get longer and wider, until those that will drive themselves become the atypical option.
During this time you will not be able to nap during the drive, or send the kids off to school in the car by itself, or even use your phone in your hand while driving. The pilot will need to be there and be aware to make sure the autonomous system is working properly until such time as society changes, which won't until such time as those growing with this safer driving experience laugh at how 'us (now) old people' were so foolish to think they were better drivers than dozens of independent computers and hundreds of sensors constantly talking to each other, each automobile around them, and to the highway network.
Because the car won't be able to operate without an aware human pilot I believe Apple is buying many of these companies and creating patents for 3D facial mapping so that the car can be fairly aware of what the human pilot is doing whilst in motion.
No doubt. Apple will need to build their own car. There are dozens of Chinese factories ready for this.
Or Mexican factories. That's where the German auto makers are building their cars destined for the North American market. Shipping an entire car from China to North America would negate most or all savings on assembly.
No doubt. Apple will need to build their own car. There are dozens of Chinese factories ready for this.
Or Mexican factories. That's where the German auto makers are building their cars destined for the North American market. Shipping an entire car from China to North America would negate most or all savings on assembly.
Or Canadian.
A car built in China is not on my buy list.
We have too many early failures with the many China made household products.
BTW VW opened a factory in SE USA a few years ago, for initially their Passat.
I applaud Elon Musk for what has done, he is clearly a brilliant man, but he definitely lacks taste. The model s looks like a ripoff of a few existing cars and the front is not specially attractive. Apple can easily compete with him in the design department.
I agree. While I am OK with the overall exterior shape of the vehicle, the front looks weird, and shiny chrome lines give it a cheap look. Also, the dashboard looks like I am watching movie with tech equipment made in the 1980s.
We have too many early failures with the many China made household products.
Does that include Apple products? If so, what CE do you buy that isn't made in China? If not, then why assume that a car with parts made in China (which is a given) would be faulty if your Apple CE doesn't have rampant early failures?
The pilot will need to be there and be aware to make sure the autonomous system is working properly until such time as society changes, which won't until such time as those growing with this safer driving experience laugh at how 'us (now) old people' were so foolish to think they were better drivers than dozens of independent computers and hundreds of sensors constantly talking to each other, each automobile around them, and to the highway network.
I don't think they will remove human control for a very long time. Not until all small roads are completely networked, mapped to the tolerance of a centimeter and the voice control is 99.999% accurate in the interpretation of human requests. Otherwise, I can imagine situations where one might want to make decisions that would seem illogical to a computer.
I was trying to reply to a comment on here but couldn't find it after I logged in.
I love BMW's. They're my favorite make. Amazing cars. Drive beautifully. Even look beautiful. But, the BMW i3 is the second-ugliest car I have ever seen (the first is the Nissan Leaf). I agree that it was great that they broke a lot of conventions building it, but they should've gone the same route as Tesla and designed a car that actually has style. I'm currently on a list to pickup a 3-Series BMW in the next year (I put money down on a military sales program), but when the Tesla Model III is revealed and if it looks better, I'll pickup one of those instead!
--Lex
I own an ICE BMW, and love it. I totally agree with you about the i3. I've never understood the need to make something look cutesy or overly tech-y or the gaudy colors just because it's electric or hybrid. Especially given that they've been able to design and sell something like the i8 -- electric + hybrid -- that is utterly gorgeous.
I don't think they will remove human control for a very long time. Not until all small roads are completely networked, mapped to the tolerance of a centimeter and the voice control is 99.999% accurate in the interpretation of human requests. Otherwise, I can imagine situations where one might want to make decisions that would seem illogical to a computer.
Also, the getting the regulation related to liabilities and insurance in place will take many, many more years than people think.
I don't think they will remove human control for a very long time. Not until all small roads are completely networked, mapped to the tolerance of a centimeter and the voice control is 99.999% accurate in the interpretation of human requests. Otherwise, I can imagine situations where one might want to make decisions that would seem illogical to a computer.
some 'issues' Ive wondered about---
Super in-climate weather were sensors can be blinded (heavy down pours, sleet, icing conditions)
How would 'drive-thru's' work?
Parking at malls, work etc?
Sounds like a lot of infrastructure would be needed.
However, if I could get on an interstate and say drive me to Yosemite exit(or what ever) and I could nap or whatever till that exit, that would be great.
How would passing work or speed control? I want 80mph, you want 70. Granny wants 65---That could be interesting.
BMW has already demonstrated this. The car drops you off at the front door of the mall and then goes and finds a parking space on its own. When you are ready to leave, you call your car on your phone or watch and it picks you up.
Good point ... however as I've said before to AI numerous times the plans lodged for the new HQ mention electric vehicles on site ... would it not be more likely that there will still be regulations around building self-drive cars on 'private' land if they still will carry humans and that maybe what Apple are meeting DMV about ?
It *may* even be to see what would be required in future if those vehicles needed to visit other Apple buildings in Cupertino which might necessitate going on public roads for a few hundred yards ?
I really don't see this being a genuine consumer product/vehicle until into the 2020s ?
Good point ... however as I've said before to AI numerous times the plans lodged for the new HQ mention electric vehicles on site ... would it not be more likely that there will still be regulations around building self-drive cars on 'private' land if they still will carry humans and that maybe what Apple are meeting DMV about ?
It *may* even be to see what would be required in future if those vehicles needed to visit other Apple buildings in Cupertino which might necessitate going on public roads for a few hundred yards ?
I really don't see this being a genuine consumer product/vehicle until into the 2020s ?
Just my 2 pence (observing from the UK) :-)
Just a thought, but Apple does have it's own transit system for employees. I wonder if it will begin as a replacement for that?
some 'issues' Ive wondered about---
Super in-climate weather were sensors can be blinded (heavy down pours, sleet, icing conditions)
How would 'drive-thru's' work?
Parking at malls, work etc?
Sounds like a lot of infrastructure would be needed.
However, if I could get on an interstate and say drive me to Yosemite exit(or what ever) and I could nap or whatever till that exit, that would be great.
How would passing work or speed control? I want 80mph, you want 70. Granny wants 65---That could be interesting.
Most of those issues don't need to be tackled for a very, very long time. It's not an all-or-nothing situation so building a vehicle that is more automated than today doesn't need to have "mall drop off and parking" or "drive-thru windows at McDonald's" as features. What most people don't understand is that autonomous automobile development started when soon after the automobile was invented. Consider the automatic transmission. Then consider cruise control. Now consider anti-lock breaking systems and other safety systems. Then consider all those sensors and computers working in even the cheap cars today that monitor tire pressure, speed, weight distribution. Now consider some of the newish features like cameras, front and back object sensors, and even blindspot sensors. Now consider the most modern features like adaptive cruise control which won't just maintain the speed, but will slow down if an object in front of it gets too close. These are all tiny steps to the future of an autonomous vehicle. Everything I mentioned is a part of this future… but there is still a long way to go. As
I mentioned in a previous post in this thread I would expect it to first see it's real-world deployment and benefit in certain highway environments, possibly with isolated AV lanes.
While I'd be happy about that, having car assembly plants in Canada is mostly based on a low Canadian dollar. When the dollar went up relative to the US dollar, many of the plants were relocated to Mexico.
And car assembly isn't like, say, filming a movie where it can be moved around on a whim. It takes a fair bit of time and money to open or relocate a plant. So my thinking is that, unless there are some serious problems with the cars being built in Mexico, or the Mexican economy dramatically changes, those plants aren't coming back here anytime soon (and new ones aren't as likely to be created here). The only reason a car manufacturer would open an assembly plant in Canada or the US at this point is if they were provided incentives from the government to do so.
Comments
Sadly I think BMW made it look less attractive than their existing cars on purpose. What they should have instead done is made electric versions of their existing lineup with an i in the marketing as they are doing now. Literally used the same body shape in a light material.
Autonomous cars are already much safer than any human demographic. There are so many computers in cars right now, adding more that all do checks on the other constantly to make sure they are working properly isn't an issue. With a human driver, glancing down at the radio or air control system or to grab your drink or because something piques your interest on the sidewalk or your kid screams loudly, or whatever, can be deadly if it happens at the right moment. I'm talking about otherwise "safe" drivers that aren't texting whilst driving or even using handsfree calling.
But this will not come easy. People will be scared despite statistics on safety because people like to have the perception of control even if they know it's less safe because people are insecure by nature. I am certain this will come in 'my' generation but it will have to come slowly. States will have to edge into it. First with highways roads, perhaps even isolated from the regular traffic with cement dividers, like on some HOV lanes (below) for certain stretches of highway. That will eventually increase and they will slowly get longer and wider, until those that will drive themselves become the atypical option.
During this time you will not be able to nap during the drive, or send the kids off to school in the car by itself, or even use your phone in your hand while driving. The pilot will need to be there and be aware to make sure the autonomous system is working properly until such time as society changes, which won't until such time as those growing with this safer driving experience laugh at how 'us (now) old people' were so foolish to think they were better drivers than dozens of independent computers and hundreds of sensors constantly talking to each other, each automobile around them, and to the highway network.
Because the car won't be able to operate without an aware human pilot I believe Apple is buying many of these companies and creating patents for 3D facial mapping so that the car can be fairly aware of what the human pilot is doing whilst in motion.
No doubt. Apple will need to build their own car. There are dozens of Chinese factories ready for this.
Or Mexican factories. That's where the German auto makers are building their cars destined for the North American market. Shipping an entire car from China to North America would negate most or all savings on assembly.
Or Canadian.
And US.
No doubt. Apple will need to build their own car. There are dozens of Chinese factories ready for this.
Or Mexican factories. That's where the German auto makers are building their cars destined for the North American market. Shipping an entire car from China to North America would negate most or all savings on assembly.
Or Canadian.
A car built in China is not on my buy list.
We have too many early failures with the many China made household products.
BTW VW opened a factory in SE USA a few years ago, for initially their Passat.
I applaud Elon Musk for what has done, he is clearly a brilliant man, but he definitely lacks taste. The model s looks like a ripoff of a few existing cars and the front is not specially attractive. Apple can easily compete with him in the design department.
I agree. While I am OK with the overall exterior shape of the vehicle, the front looks weird, and shiny chrome lines give it a cheap look. Also, the dashboard looks like I am watching movie with tech equipment made in the 1980s.
The new X is quite pedestrian-looking, IMHO.
Does that include Apple products? If so, what CE do you buy that isn't made in China? If not, then why assume that a car with parts made in China (which is a given) would be faulty if your Apple CE doesn't have rampant early failures?
The pilot will need to be there and be aware to make sure the autonomous system is working properly until such time as society changes, which won't until such time as those growing with this safer driving experience laugh at how 'us (now) old people' were so foolish to think they were better drivers than dozens of independent computers and hundreds of sensors constantly talking to each other, each automobile around them, and to the highway network.
I don't think they will remove human control for a very long time. Not until all small roads are completely networked, mapped to the tolerance of a centimeter and the voice control is 99.999% accurate in the interpretation of human requests. Otherwise, I can imagine situations where one might want to make decisions that would seem illogical to a computer.
I was trying to reply to a comment on here but couldn't find it after I logged in.
I love BMW's. They're my favorite make. Amazing cars. Drive beautifully. Even look beautiful. But, the BMW i3 is the second-ugliest car I have ever seen (the first is the Nissan Leaf). I agree that it was great that they broke a lot of conventions building it, but they should've gone the same route as Tesla and designed a car that actually has style. I'm currently on a list to pickup a 3-Series BMW in the next year (I put money down on a military sales program), but when the Tesla Model III is revealed and if it looks better, I'll pickup one of those instead!
--Lex
I own an ICE BMW, and love it. I totally agree with you about the i3. I've never understood the need to make something look cutesy or overly tech-y or the gaudy colors just because it's electric or hybrid. Especially given that they've been able to design and sell something like the i8 -- electric + hybrid -- that is utterly gorgeous.
I don't think they will remove human control for a very long time. Not until all small roads are completely networked, mapped to the tolerance of a centimeter and the voice control is 99.999% accurate in the interpretation of human requests. Otherwise, I can imagine situations where one might want to make decisions that would seem illogical to a computer.
Also, the getting the regulation related to liabilities and insurance in place will take many, many more years than people think.
And US.
I agree. Southern US.
I don't think they will remove human control for a very long time. Not until all small roads are completely networked, mapped to the tolerance of a centimeter and the voice control is 99.999% accurate in the interpretation of human requests. Otherwise, I can imagine situations where one might want to make decisions that would seem illogical to a computer.
some 'issues' Ive wondered about---
Super in-climate weather were sensors can be blinded (heavy down pours, sleet, icing conditions)
How would 'drive-thru's' work?
Parking at malls, work etc?
Sounds like a lot of infrastructure would be needed.
However, if I could get on an interstate and say drive me to Yosemite exit(or what ever) and I could nap or whatever till that exit, that would be great.
How would passing work or speed control? I want 80mph, you want 70. Granny wants 65---That could be interesting.
Parking at malls, work etc?
BMW has already demonstrated this. The car drops you off at the front door of the mall and then goes and finds a parking space on its own. When you are ready to leave, you call your car on your phone or watch and it picks you up.
http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/self-driving/car-park-thyself
2) If this rumour is true (and it seems like it is) it would mark the first product that couldn't fit on an Apple Store table, per Jobs quote.
"all of our products can fit inside of our car!"
Good point ... however as I've said before to AI numerous times the plans lodged for the new HQ mention electric vehicles on site ... would it not be more likely that there will still be regulations around building self-drive cars on 'private' land if they still will carry humans and that maybe what Apple are meeting DMV about ?
It *may* even be to see what would be required in future if those vehicles needed to visit other Apple buildings in Cupertino which might necessitate going on public roads for a few hundred yards ?
I really don't see this being a genuine consumer product/vehicle until into the 2020s ?
Just my 2 pence (observing from the UK) :-)
Good point ... however as I've said before to AI numerous times the plans lodged for the new HQ mention electric vehicles on site ... would it not be more likely that there will still be regulations around building self-drive cars on 'private' land if they still will carry humans and that maybe what Apple are meeting DMV about ?
It *may* even be to see what would be required in future if those vehicles needed to visit other Apple buildings in Cupertino which might necessitate going on public roads for a few hundred yards ?
I really don't see this being a genuine consumer product/vehicle until into the 2020s ?
Just my 2 pence (observing from the UK) :-)
Just a thought, but Apple does have it's own transit system for employees. I wonder if it will begin as a replacement for that?
Most of those issues don't need to be tackled for a very, very long time. It's not an all-or-nothing situation so building a vehicle that is more automated than today doesn't need to have "mall drop off and parking" or "drive-thru windows at McDonald's" as features. What most people don't understand is that autonomous automobile development started when soon after the automobile was invented. Consider the automatic transmission. Then consider cruise control. Now consider anti-lock breaking systems and other safety systems. Then consider all those sensors and computers working in even the cheap cars today that monitor tire pressure, speed, weight distribution. Now consider some of the newish features like cameras, front and back object sensors, and even blindspot sensors. Now consider the most modern features like adaptive cruise control which won't just maintain the speed, but will slow down if an object in front of it gets too close. These are all tiny steps to the future of an autonomous vehicle. Everything I mentioned is a part of this future… but there is still a long way to go. As
I mentioned in a previous post in this thread I would expect it to first see it's real-world deployment and benefit in certain highway environments, possibly with isolated AV lanes.
No doubt. Apple will need to build their own car. There are dozens of Chinese factories ready for this.
shut the f*** up! Such a post makes obvious you don't understand sh*t about car manufacturing
No doubt. Apple will need to build their own car. There are dozens of Chinese factories ready for this.
shut the f*** up! Such a post makes obvious you don't understand sh*t about car manufacturing
Yikes. Did you forget your meds today? Why such vehement anger?
Or Canadian.
While I'd be happy about that, having car assembly plants in Canada is mostly based on a low Canadian dollar. When the dollar went up relative to the US dollar, many of the plants were relocated to Mexico.
And car assembly isn't like, say, filming a movie where it can be moved around on a whim. It takes a fair bit of time and money to open or relocate a plant. So my thinking is that, unless there are some serious problems with the cars being built in Mexico, or the Mexican economy dramatically changes, those plants aren't coming back here anytime soon (and new ones aren't as likely to be created here). The only reason a car manufacturer would open an assembly plant in Canada or the US at this point is if they were provided incentives from the government to do so.