iOS 9 Safari content blockers debut to demand, denouncement & a high-profile delisting

18911131422

Comments

  • Reply 201 of 421
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Misa View Post





    I run a series of websites that makes multi-thousand dollars per day in advertising, but the click through rate is less than 1% for just about everything except in-house ads.





    The tracking mechanism however require clarification.



    Advertisers use one tracker to ensure they don't show you ads you don't want to see, and another to keep showing you the same ad (Amazon, JCP, BH Photo, and Alibaba do this off the top of my head) known as "retargeting" from something you saw on a site you visited not to long ago. If you turn cookies off on the advertisers website what will happen is you will see no ads, stock ads (eg non-paying), or it will fall through to another ad network.



    The rest of the trackers are "audience tracking" which the advertisers don't even need, and are largely used to check for click-fraud and tuning ads for certain audiences.



    Ghostery is a better "ads and tracker management" plugin than ADP is for this reason, because you can selectively whitelist sites or turn off just the worst-behaving advertisers, leaving everything else alone. The "Peace" plugin mentioned in the original post used Ghostery's database without the whitelisting features, so it was effectively acting worse than Ghostery itself would.

    And when was the last time you saw one of those? The truth is nobody clicks on those, and since they're CPC ads, nobody wants them either. Adsense is CPC and the payout is pretty much garbage. On a site that might make 10,000$ a month from just a 20% CPM payout with another ad network that uses just images, Adsense might earn the site 50$.



    Publishers tend to have something like this:

    In house contracted ads (CPM) -> High Paying and non-obnoxious CPM ads -> Low Paying third party ads (DoubleClick) CPM/CPC-> Adsense(CPC)-> In house ads (self-promotion)



    The most troublesome ads come from low paying "maximize fill" option, because this means the ad network will attempt to put ANYTHING in the ad slot. The "update your flash" and "your computer is infected, call microsoft" garbage ads come from allowing "maximize fill" because you end up getting all the ads that other publishers have already blocked that land on that third party network.

     

    That's all about the mechanic of ads, but do you justify the absolute garbage or code, million links off site loading who knows what and data syphon that is all those ads.

     

    I use NoScript and Firefox Dev Edition and I can't believe the zillions of cookies and sites I have to authorize to run the most basic of pages with little ads. Some pages are just insanity we I have to authorize more than 50 sites to load them fully!! I only do temporary approvals for most to prevent future tracking.

     

    What I see on those pages is just simply unbelieveable and I've got a 40 years experience in developpment and software/systems architecture. It is as If people were trying to obfuscate whatever they did! The whole thing seems to have been done by 12 year old children who just discovered Web programming... And that's not even taking into account the inane nature of why this code is actually there.

     

    There is no justifying a lot of this crud horry which has a cost, especially on mobile in CPU/Battery/Memory use and data usage.

     

    This cost, inconvenience, especially on older devices with lower cap plans means there's less and less and less Web content that's actually worth it if I was doing a purely accounting measure of it. But, frustation mounts way before the balance runs to zero; most web sites are quicking outweighting their usefullness...

  • Reply 202 of 421
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,931member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post



    The people and business that provide real valuable content will survive and flourish. 

     

    How?

  • Reply 203 of 421
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,931member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post





    Are you kidding me? The App is WORTHLESS without updates. The App writer Marco clown won't do any more updates.



    That's like buying an Antivirus program that stops doing updates. ITS WORTHLESS.



    And instead of refunding customers DIRECTLY, he passes the buck to Apple. Do you know what a pain in the azz it is to go through the refund process? It will probably take weeks to get your $4 back. Most won't even bother, so this clown keeps the money.



    If he was REALLY SORRY for what he did he would refund the few thousand people who bought the App can take the small 30% hit from Apple's cut. But he isn't sorry. He did this for press and attention.

    Incorrect.  The tracker is from Ghostery which will continue to receive updates:  

     

    The app itself will not be updated.  if you're unhappy about that you can request a refund, via the established process.  

     

    There is no alternative than to go via Apple, since Apple keep all of the customer transaction information.  You are accusing Marco of passing the buck, but there is nothing else he could have done.

  • Reply 204 of 421
    sog35 wrote: »
    crowley wrote: »
    The app did not stop working, and the refund process is the normal Apple refund process. What more did you expect him to do? He has no access to customer details.

    Are you kidding me? The App is WORTHLESS without updates. The App writer Marco clown won't do any more updates.

    That's like buying an Antivirus program that stops doing updates. ITS WORTHLESS.

    And instead of refunding customers DIRECTLY, he passes the buck to Apple. Do you know what a pain in the azz it is to go through the refund process? It will probably take weeks to get your $4 back. Most won't even bother, so this clown keeps the money.

    If he was REALLY SORRY for what he did he would refund the few thousand people who bought the App can take the small 30% hit from Apple's cut. But he isn't sorry. He did this for press and attention.

    How can he refund anyone directly if they didn't pay him directly? Apple is the middleman in both instances.
  • Reply 205 of 421
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,931member
    <div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/188381/ios-9-safari-content-blockers-debut-to-demand-denouncement-a-high-profile-delisting/200#post_2779238" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:

    <div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>sog35</strong> <a href="/t/188381/ios-9-safari-content-blockers-debut-to-demand-denouncement-a-high-profile-delisting/200#post_2779238"><img alt="View Post" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" /></a><br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Thats for them to figure out, not me.<br />
    I figure out how to make money, no one tells me how to make money.</div>
    </div>

    <p><br />
    If you're predicting that certain parties will achieve something, then you need to have something to back that up.  Otherwise, just blather.</p>
  • Reply 206 of 421
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,931member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post





    There is no guarantee it will keep on working. Any little undiscovered bug could crash the entire App, and since there will be no updates it will forever be damanged.



    And what about when iOS10 comes out? Can Marco give 100% guarantee that it will be compatable. No he can't. He screwed people. PERIOD.



    I'm sure if Marco told Apple to refund EVERY purchase he could. Apple has done this before for other Apps.



    Source?

  • Reply 207 of 421
    sog35 wrote: »
    crowley wrote: »
    How?

    Thats for them to figure out, not me.
    I figure out how to make money, no one tells me how to make money.

    I can also bet that nobody has ever taken away your method of making money.
  • Reply 208 of 421
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boredumb View Post

     

    Thanks for the link, I thought he was very articulate.

    His two suggestions - Purify and Crystal - do seem to have flexible options to avoid blanket elimination 

    of ads on sites you choose to support...I wonder whether you could or should use both in iOS9?

    I use both Ghostery and AdBlockPlus in OS X, and they seem to attack different 'invaders', somewhat.

     

    ...This opinion has been brought to you by your friends at...




    The problem is that clown charged $2 for his App and then stop supporting it after 2 days.

     

    If it was a free App I would have ZERO problem with what he done.  Even worse he is not refunding people directly but is passing the buck to Apple. 

     

    Guy is a flat out idiot.  If he had reservations he should have made it a free App.

     

    I didn't buy the App but got Crystal for free.  I delete the clowns podcast App.  


     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Crowley View Post



    The app did not stop working, and the refund process is the normal Apple refund process. What more did you expect him to do? He has no access to customer details.




    Are you kidding me? The App is WORTHLESS without updates. The App writer Marco clown won't do any more updates.



    That's like buying an Antivirus program that stops doing updates. ITS WORTHLESS.



    And instead of refunding customers DIRECTLY, he passes the buck to Apple. Do you know what a pain in the azz it is to go through the refund process? It will probably take weeks to get your $4 back. Most won't even bother, so this clown keeps the money.



    If he was REALLY SORRY for what he did he would refund the few thousand people who bought the App can take the small 30% hit from Apple's cut. But he isn't sorry. He did this for press and attention.

    First you say it's $2, then you say it's $4. :???:

     

    The app was $2.99. So we'll split the difference in what you wrote. 

     

    And like @Crowley said above the app will still work with it's database updated through Ghostery.

     

    And if you want a refund, please let us all know how Marco is supposed to refund customers directly if he has no idea who they are. Only Apple knows that information.

  • Reply 209 of 421
    sog35 wrote: »
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    I can also bet that nobody has ever taken away your method of making money.

    Bullshit.

    What I worked in manufactering?
    What if I worked at a newspaper?
    What if I worked for the yellow pages?

    No job is guaranteed forever.

    Unless you're a coroner, or tax collector.

    None of those jobs were impacted immediately. This has the potential to hurt a website(s) overnight.
  • Reply 210 of 421
    sog35 wrote: »
    techlover wrote: »

    First you say it's $2, then you say it's $4. :???:

    The app was $2.99. So we'll split the difference in what you wrote. 

    And like <a data-huddler-embed="href" href="/u/56460/Crowley" style="display:inline-block;">@Crowley</a>
     said above the app will still work with it's database updated through Ghostery.

    And if you want a refund, please let us all know how Marco is supposed to refund customers directly if he has no idea who they are. Only Apple knows that information.


    Bullsheet. You know that ANY app that does not get updates eventually be being a steaming POS. IF this app gets any bug it will destroy the entire app, since no one will fix it. So you are telling me this app won't have any bugs?

    Marco should have told Apple to refund EVERYONE who bought the App. Apple would refund everyone but Marco would have to pay the 30%. He would do that if he was REALLY SORRY for what he did. Instead he screwed people.

    Aren't iOS users flush with cash? It's just a few dollars. Quit your crying already
  • Reply 211 of 421
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,931member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post





    Bullsheet. You know that ANY app that does not get updates eventually be being a steaming POS. IF this app gets any bug it will destroy the entire app, since no one will fix it. So you are telling me this app won't have any bugs?



    Marco should have told Apple to refund EVERYONE who bought the App. Apple would refund everyone but Marco would have to pay the 30%. He would do that if he was REALLY SORRY for what he did. Instead he screwed people.



    Who is screwed?  The app works, and works well.  Your speculation about bugs could take years to manifest.  I have apps that haven't been updated for several years, and some that have been pulled from the iTunes Store.  While the interface may be stuck in pre-iOS7 design, they work fine.

     

    You have no idea if the bulk refund option is even available to Marco.   And moreover, why should Marco be so SORRY for what he did?  He made a good app, by most accounts.  He isn't selling or supporting it any more.  That doesn't mean it isn't worth $3 still.  And if the customer doesn't think it is, the refund option is available.

     

    Seems like you're just being a jerk.

  • Reply 212 of 421
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TechLover View Post





    First you say it's $2, then you say it's $4. image



    The app was $2.99. So we'll split the difference in what you wrote. 



    And like @Crowley

     said above the app will still work with it's database updated through Ghostery.



    And if you want a refund, please let us all know how Marco is supposed to refund customers directly if he has no idea who they are. Only Apple knows that information.




    Bullsheet. You know that ANY app that does not get updates eventually be being a steaming POS. IF this app gets any bug it will destroy the entire app, since no one will fix it. So you are telling me this app won't have any bugs?



    Marco should have told Apple to refund EVERYONE who bought the App. Apple would refund everyone but Marco would have to pay the 30%. He would do that if he was REALLY SORRY for what he did. Instead he screwed people.

    You are really this upset about $3? That is pocket change.

     

    How do you know the plugin he wrote will become a steaming POS?

     

    I have lots of apps that still work fine after many years of no updates.

  • Reply 213 of 421
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,931member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post





    Bullshit.



    What I worked in manufactering?

    What if I worked at a newspaper?

    What if I worked for the yellow pages?



    No job is guaranteed forever.



    Was there some douchebag from outside the industry predicting that "the good ones" would find a way to adapt at times of disruption?

  • Reply 214 of 421
    Your article has convinced me to change the way I use the content blocker. The news outlets that I visit often; I will now hold the reload icon on Safari, press "reload without blockers", and if the ads are not intrusive (especially pop-ups), I will white list that site on my content blocker for future use.

    Thank you for your (slightly biased) article
  • Reply 215 of 421
    crowley wrote: »
    sog35 wrote: »
    Bullshit.


    What I worked in manufactering?

    What if I worked at a newspaper?

    What if I worked for the yellow pages?


    No job is guaranteed forever.


    Was there some douchebag from outside the industry predicting that "the good ones" would find a way to adapt at times of disruption?

    Isn't there always? He's just unbeknownst to us.
  • Reply 216 of 421
    sog35 wrote: »
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    Aren't iOS users flush with cash? It's just a few dollars. Quit your crying already


    iOS owners didn't get rich by flushing money down the toilet

    Everyone has something that they willingly flush money down the toilet for.
  • Reply 217 of 421
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,931member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post





    name me Ad blocker that works without updates? There is none. The ad networks can write around any ad blocker. Thats why they need to be constantly updated.



    My Crystal Ad blocker has already been updated 2 times since it was released this week



    Content and app code are different things.  Peace uses Ghostery as its content back end, and Ghostery will continue to update.

  • Reply 218 of 421
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TechLover View Post



    You are really this upset about $3? That is pocket change.



    How do you know the plugin he wrote will become a steaming POS?



    I have lots of apps that still work fine after many years of no updates.




    name me Ad blocker that works without updates? There is none. The ad networks can write around any ad blocker. Thats why they need to be constantly updated.



    My Crystal Ad blocker has already been updated 2 times since it was released this week

    Did you not read the Marco's tweet that was already posted in response to you by Crowley?

     

    It's okay I will post it again for you.

     

     

    And if you don't want to click here it is:

     

    "If buyers want to keep using the app, it’ll probably work for a pretty long time, with the auto-updater getting new trackers periodically."

  • Reply 219 of 421
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,931member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post





    The good ones do adapt to the times. Look at the New York Times.



    But sometimes entire industries are replaced. That just progress. Its what the consumer wants.



    Do you feel sorry for VCR repairmen?

    Do you feel sorry for the milk man?



    Stuff change man. Its the nature of the world.

     

    It's the nature of the free market certainly.  And it doesn't always lead to the promotion of "real, valuable content".

  • Reply 220 of 421
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,931member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post





    And can Marco guarantee a bug won't afect the front end?

    Can he guarantee it will play nice with iOS 10?

    NO he can't.



    IOS10 is a year away, and Marco has form for making apps that are resilient to iOS changes, since he develops for the most recent SDK.

     

    He can't guarantee it, for sure, but $3 for decent service is not a raw deal.  If you're worried that it might be, take the refund.

Sign In or Register to comment.