Can you imagine how much $$$ Google can sell this information for? Selling this data to car insurance companies and law enforcement.
Google is the scum of the earth.
Of course, it's not just that data, it's the fact that that their data shows " hey, look! cornchip likes to drive his _insert fine German sports car here_ like a wild man, and he's married to crunchy_grl83 and they always buy organic corn chips!" Might be time for an oil change at the Valvoline right next to the grocery store he frequents the most! Oh hey there's a sale on organic corn chips!
The car companies have been selling my data to advertisers?
No. That is not what I said.
I said that car companies have been recording car data that is made available in the event of an accident.
Obviously Google is a company that make their money mostly from advertising. If Google knows that my car is low on gas and shows me an ad paid for by the closest, or maybe not the closest but the lowest price station within reason, I would not object to that. Same goes for an oil change. To me that would be perfectly ideal targeted advertising.
Others will think that is scary and creepy. To each their own. That is why we have choices.
If I start to get flooded with "there is a taco bell next exit" I would want a way to opt out and never get that sort of thing. That would piss me off.
The car companies have been selling my data to advertisers?
As a matter of fact some would like to do a little data sharing and could already be doing so. Look up some stories about GM, OnStar and customer data. Due to customer blowback they've at least temporarily shelved the idea. Other manufacturers could be monetizing and/or sharing behind the scenes tho.
I said that car companies have been recording car data that is made available in the event of an accident.
Obviously Google is a company that make their money mostly from advertising. If Google knows that my car is low on gas and shows me an ad paid for by the closest, or maybe not the closest but the lowest price station within reason, I would not object to that. Same goes for an oil change. To me that would be perfectly ideal targeted advertising.
Others will think that is scary and creepy. To each their own. That is why we have choices.
If I start to get flooded with "there is a taco bell next exit" I would want a way to opt out and never get that sort of thing. That would piss me off.
But that's exactly how advertising works. It's not what you need. It's what they want to push. The notion of showing "relevant" ads thus far has failed to materialize. When do I see relevant Adsense ads? After I've visited someone's site to look at a product or two. Then every Adsense ad on every website I visit shows an ad for the thing I already looked at, on my own volition, and already decided not to buy (yet or ever). How is that relevant? The rest of the ads are worse, in terms of relevance. Never once has an ad been presented to me that was relevant, except for when Google shows sponsored search results before the actual search results, when I'm looking for a specific reseller and product... and how is that a relevant advert when I'm already looking for that reseller and product in the first place?
As for your comment about having choice... As if. The illusion of choice still has people defending the marketers that rule their lives. Ten companies own all the products you buy at grocery stores. It's not much different in other markets. Buying a car recently was yet another demonstration of just how little choice they will allow consumers to make. Want a moon roof? Then you MUST purchase three entire packages of features you might not want and probably don't need. Almost every car company I looked into had this bundling issue.
"Cupertino only queries a vehicle's PCM to check whether it's in motion, a simply safety consideration adopted by decades ago when OEMs got serious about in-car audio/video integration."
OMG. I was not aware that all vehicle stats went to Google for Android Auto. Unbelievable!!!
All car makers should drop this POS or risk losing customers.
But that's exactly how advertising works. It's not what you need. It's what they want to push. The notion of showing "relevant" ads thus far has failed to materialize. When do I see relevant Adsense ads? After I've visited someone's site to look at a product or two. Then every Adsense ad on every website I visit shows an ad for the thing I already looked at, on my own volition, and already decided not to buy (yet or ever). How is that relevant? The rest of the ads are worse, in terms of relevance. Never once has an ad been presented to me that was relevant, except for when Google shows sponsored search results before the actual search results, when I'm looking for a specific reseller and product... and how is that a relevant advert when I'm already looking for that reseller and product in the first place?
As for your comment about having choice... As if. The illusion of choice still has people defending the marketers that rule their lives. Ten companies own all the products you buy at grocery stores. It's not much different in other markets. Buying a car recently was yet another demonstration of just how little choice they will allow consumers to make. Want a moon roof? Then you MUST purchase three entire packages of features you might not want and probably don't need. Almost every car company I looked into had this bundling issue.
Free market and choice are illusions.
You make some fair points and I would say that in my experience Amazon is the worst offender as far as "relevant" ads go.
I bought the thing 2 months ago! Stop it Amazon I don't need to see an ad for it anymore. Give it a rest.
Another apt illusion is that you really have a choice for an ISP, even if you have both AT&T and Comcast in your town for example. They are fixing prices to not drive each others prices down too much. You can't roll your own internet connection. For that we are slaves.
But it is interesting how when Google Fiber comes to town all of a sudden those ISP's lower their prices and/or increase their speeds for the same money.
I would also say that as you are typing a search for something if a relevant ad shows up that is exactly what you want, then that means it is working.
The car bundling thing is completely obnoxious and something I noticed about five years ago. Really obnoxious.
Regarding buying food, even though most of our food is part of the massive food delivery industrial complex, at least you can shop local, grow your own, or even make good decisions at the massive industrial food store. Do Tyson, Kraft and Nestle make most of the crap on the shelves? Sure, but there is plenty to eat that isn't made by them.
Another apt illusion is that you really have a choice for an ISP, even if you have both AT&T and Comcast in your town for example. They are fixing prices to not drive each others prices down too much. You can't roll your own internet connection. For that we are slaves.
But it is interesting how when Google Fiber comes to town all of a sudden those ISP's lower their prices and/or increase their speeds for the same money.
Regarding buying food, even though most of our food is part of the massive food delivery industrial complex, at least you can shop local, grow your own, or even make good decisions at the massive industrial food store. Do Tyson, Kraft and Nestle make most of the crap on the shelves? Sure, but there is plenty to eat that isn't made by them.
I'm fortunate to be in a town that has it's own fiber ISP and lots of local produce.
The local ISP is a little more expensive, but I know they aren't going to jack my payments up in 6 months. In fact, for premium & business customers (not me) prices came down and speeds went up last year. Never has Comcast customer service been so accommodating to me than on the day I cancelled.
My wife goes to one of the local markets every Wednesday where she gets seasonal fruit, veggies, cheese, jam and even milk and more. We do go to the grocery store for a few things, but we try to stay away as much as possible. Especially now that it got bought out by another chain and prices went up.
This is pretty silly. ODB2 security is a prime concern. If Google wants Porsche secret sauce data dumps from ODB2 on a track day, they can get them on their own. We're only seeing one side of the story -- I'd be interested to see the actual agreement Google has asked VW/Audi/Porsche to sign that has caused VW and Audi to sign it, but not Porsche.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason98
This is bs. The real reason of the switch is likely to be exactly 0 customers (outside of googleplex) having android phones.
I have seven friends who drive < 5 year-old Porsches. Three of them use Android phones. Seven of them are in tech leadership positions.
Have you updated the firmware in your AVH4000NEX? I have not had the experience you are describing. And I love my CarPlay. Much better than the Sync in my wife's 2015 Explorer.
While Apple branded their unsuccessful (at the time) product "hobby" and... tried again. Until it became successful.
Kind of normal, "back-to-the-drawing-board" approach. Would you not agree?
I wouldn't agree.
Hobby as defined by m-w dot com: : a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation
I always had the feeling when I purchased my Apple TV that I was buying something that Apple enjoyed working with, but had no concrete plans for. In other words, it was always on the drawing board.
I'd be interested to see the actual agreement Google has asked VW/Audi/Porsche to sign that has caused VW and Audi to sign it, but not Porsche.
What's more confusing is why VW would do it but not Porsche. VW owns Porsche, and if there was a data collection policy the company disliked I'd image that would be company-wide, not just a single subsidiary. The original claim that Android Auto does a lot of data collection comes from a Motor Trend article which has been denied by Google, and I'm sure this post will be quoted with "a likely story" style quips. We've also had both GM and Ford claiming that there's very limited access to data collection which does directly contradict the Motor Trend report and it's unlikely that Google will give two different policies to different companies. Pretty much until someone does some packet sniffing it'll just come down to whichever company you decide to believe.
What I'm more thinking it's related to is that Android Auto has the capability of sending data to a competitor, seeing as google is currently manufacturing cars and don't mind giving such data to Apple as their car is still nothing but whispers in the wind. That, or it's an exclusivity agreement wrapped in an NDA and numerous layers of bullplop which all in all makes the most sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan
I have 10,000 friends who drive 2017 Porsches. And they all have iPhone7's.
Its the internet! Its not like anything typed requires proof lol.
Do you have a link to the source for Jason98's original claim? waterrocket's post seems more believable, but if you have evidence to back up this[Jason98's] claim I'll believe you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason98
This is bs. The real reason of the switch is likely to be exactly 0 customers (outside of googleplex) having android phones.
Hobby as defined by m-w dot com: : a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation
I always had the feeling when I purchased my Apple TV that I was buying something that Apple enjoyed working with, but had no concrete plans for. In other words, it was always on the drawing board.
Microsoft gave me no such feeling with CarPlay.
Well... computers are quite out of Microsoft's regular occupation... considering that software and services are their bread & butter. I'm considering it hobby because they don't really depend on Surface product line success... and they can afford to go back to drawing board are improve it again and again.
I had same feeling about Surface Pro 3. It is well crafted, well thought off product - within set parameters (of convertible devices). I think it compares favourably to everything else in Windows world, in terms of quality of parts, fit and finish. A lot of attention put in this design.
It's possible it is illegal, as there are a bazillion laws/regulations that are virtually impossible to decode for the layperson.
But it wouldn't surprise me if you can't really disable it, as it's built into the various computers running in your car, and you'd have to reverse-engineer the software on those computers [and get your new software loaded] to just do their normal work and not do the data logging [or erase it periodically]. Some stuff needs to be tracked over time [at least over a short time], like throttle position, engine speed, transmission gear, to determine how much fuel to deliver.
And that autocyb thing is stupid, it's just an expensive cover for your ODB-II port. for virtually any case where you would want to deny someone access to that port, you would be required by a judge to permit them [or a qualified representative] to access it.
I think you have touched on something important. I wonder if VW's serious troubles with software related emissions testing scandal had anything to do with not wanting Google to poke around in their car diagnostics.
Yes I can well imagine the powers that be at VW preferring to work with a company that will not share information ...
I think you have touched on something important. I wonder if VW's serious troubles with software related emissions testing scandal had anything to do with not wanting Google to poke around in their car diagnostics.
No. It was just about someone at VW making a dumb choice to cheat on the software instead of adhering to the local emissions regulations, which would've added cost and reduced performance.
No. It was just about someone at VW making a dumb choice to cheat on the software instead of adhering to the local emissions regulations, which would've added cost and reduced performance.
There was added cost in writing the cheating software, not in meeting emissions standards. The vehicles were already capable of adhering to emissions standards in various locales, as they routinely demonstrate when tested.
What we're looking at here is that consumer expectations and emissions regulations needed a technology bridge that did not exist, so VW carefully engineered a system that deceived both.
This was no accident, nor the work of one engineer, nor even one team of engineers. This was a corporate program to deliver performance while passing emissions tests.
Now we wait while people start testing all the other cars out there, when we'll discover that most of the competitors are doping, just like in pro sports.
Comments
Can you imagine how much $$$ Google can sell this information for? Selling this data to car insurance companies and law enforcement.
Google is the scum of the earth.
Of course, it's not just that data, it's the fact that that their data shows " hey, look! cornchip likes to drive his _insert fine German sports car here_ like a wild man, and he's married to crunchy_grl83 and they always buy organic corn chips!" Might be time for an oil change at the Valvoline right next to the grocery store he frequents the most! Oh hey there's a sale on organic corn chips!
CREEPY.
See my post #26.
Its been going on for years.
The car companies have been selling my data to advertisers?
No. That is not what I said.
I said that car companies have been recording car data that is made available in the event of an accident.
Obviously Google is a company that make their money mostly from advertising. If Google knows that my car is low on gas and shows me an ad paid for by the closest, or maybe not the closest but the lowest price station within reason, I would not object to that. Same goes for an oil change. To me that would be perfectly ideal targeted advertising.
Others will think that is scary and creepy. To each their own. That is why we have choices.
If I start to get flooded with "there is a taco bell next exit" I would want a way to opt out and never get that sort of thing. That would piss me off.
EDIT: Here's one pertinent article.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/03/24/car-spying-edr-data-privacy/1991751/
But that's exactly how advertising works. It's not what you need. It's what they want to push. The notion of showing "relevant" ads thus far has failed to materialize. When do I see relevant Adsense ads? After I've visited someone's site to look at a product or two. Then every Adsense ad on every website I visit shows an ad for the thing I already looked at, on my own volition, and already decided not to buy (yet or ever). How is that relevant? The rest of the ads are worse, in terms of relevance. Never once has an ad been presented to me that was relevant, except for when Google shows sponsored search results before the actual search results, when I'm looking for a specific reseller and product... and how is that a relevant advert when I'm already looking for that reseller and product in the first place?
As for your comment about having choice... As if. The illusion of choice still has people defending the marketers that rule their lives. Ten companies own all the products you buy at grocery stores. It's not much different in other markets. Buying a car recently was yet another demonstration of just how little choice they will allow consumers to make. Want a moon roof? Then you MUST purchase three entire packages of features you might not want and probably don't need. Almost every car company I looked into had this bundling issue.
Free market and choice are illusions.
"Cupertino only queries a vehicle's PCM to check whether it's in motion, a simply safety consideration adopted by decades ago when OEMs got serious about in-car audio/video integration."
Is an awful sentence.
You are the product.
But that's exactly how advertising works. It's not what you need. It's what they want to push. The notion of showing "relevant" ads thus far has failed to materialize. When do I see relevant Adsense ads? After I've visited someone's site to look at a product or two. Then every Adsense ad on every website I visit shows an ad for the thing I already looked at, on my own volition, and already decided not to buy (yet or ever). How is that relevant? The rest of the ads are worse, in terms of relevance. Never once has an ad been presented to me that was relevant, except for when Google shows sponsored search results before the actual search results, when I'm looking for a specific reseller and product... and how is that a relevant advert when I'm already looking for that reseller and product in the first place?
As for your comment about having choice... As if. The illusion of choice still has people defending the marketers that rule their lives. Ten companies own all the products you buy at grocery stores. It's not much different in other markets. Buying a car recently was yet another demonstration of just how little choice they will allow consumers to make. Want a moon roof? Then you MUST purchase three entire packages of features you might not want and probably don't need. Almost every car company I looked into had this bundling issue.
Free market and choice are illusions.
You make some fair points and I would say that in my experience Amazon is the worst offender as far as "relevant" ads go.
I bought the thing 2 months ago! Stop it Amazon I don't need to see an ad for it anymore. Give it a rest.
Another apt illusion is that you really have a choice for an ISP, even if you have both AT&T and Comcast in your town for example. They are fixing prices to not drive each others prices down too much. You can't roll your own internet connection. For that we are slaves.
But it is interesting how when Google Fiber comes to town all of a sudden those ISP's lower their prices and/or increase their speeds for the same money.
I would also say that as you are typing a search for something if a relevant ad shows up that is exactly what you want, then that means it is working.
The car bundling thing is completely obnoxious and something I noticed about five years ago. Really obnoxious.
Regarding buying food, even though most of our food is part of the massive food delivery industrial complex, at least you can shop local, grow your own, or even make good decisions at the massive industrial food store. Do Tyson, Kraft and Nestle make most of the crap on the shelves? Sure, but there is plenty to eat that isn't made by them.
Another apt illusion is that you really have a choice for an ISP, even if you have both AT&T and Comcast in your town for example. They are fixing prices to not drive each others prices down too much. You can't roll your own internet connection. For that we are slaves.
But it is interesting how when Google Fiber comes to town all of a sudden those ISP's lower their prices and/or increase their speeds for the same money.
Regarding buying food, even though most of our food is part of the massive food delivery industrial complex, at least you can shop local, grow your own, or even make good decisions at the massive industrial food store. Do Tyson, Kraft and Nestle make most of the crap on the shelves? Sure, but there is plenty to eat that isn't made by them.
I'm fortunate to be in a town that has it's own fiber ISP and lots of local produce.
The local ISP is a little more expensive, but I know they aren't going to jack my payments up in 6 months. In fact, for premium & business customers (not me) prices came down and speeds went up last year. Never has Comcast customer service been so accommodating to me than on the day I cancelled.
My wife goes to one of the local markets every Wednesday where she gets seasonal fruit, veggies, cheese, jam and even milk and more. We do go to the grocery store for a few things, but we try to stay away as much as possible. Especially now that it got bought out by another chain and prices went up.
This is pretty silly. ODB2 security is a prime concern. If Google wants Porsche secret sauce data dumps from ODB2 on a track day, they can get them on their own. We're only seeing one side of the story -- I'd be interested to see the actual agreement Google has asked VW/Audi/Porsche to sign that has caused VW and Audi to sign it, but not Porsche.
Quote:
This is bs. The real reason of the switch is likely to be exactly 0 customers (outside of googleplex) having android phones.
I have seven friends who drive < 5 year-old Porsches. Three of them use Android phones. Seven of them are in tech leadership positions.
I have 10,000 friends who drive 2017 Porsches. And they all have iPhone7's.
Its the internet! Its not like anything typed requires proof lol.
Have you updated the firmware in your AVH4000NEX? I have not had the experience you are describing. And I love my CarPlay. Much better than the Sync in my wife's 2015 Explorer.
Yeah, it is using the latest firmware.
Wow.
While Apple branded their unsuccessful (at the time) product "hobby" and... tried again. Until it became successful.
Kind of normal, "back-to-the-drawing-board" approach. Would you not agree?
While Apple branded their unsuccessful (at the time) product "hobby" and... tried again. Until it became successful.
Kind of normal, "back-to-the-drawing-board" approach. Would you not agree?
I wouldn't agree.
Hobby as defined by m-w dot com: : a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation
I always had the feeling when I purchased my Apple TV that I was buying something that Apple enjoyed working with, but had no concrete plans for. In other words, it was always on the drawing board.
Microsoft gave me no such feeling with CarPlay.
Originally Posted by waterrockets
I'd be interested to see the actual agreement Google has asked VW/Audi/Porsche to sign that has caused VW and Audi to sign it, but not Porsche.
What's more confusing is why VW would do it but not Porsche. VW owns Porsche, and if there was a data collection policy the company disliked I'd image that would be company-wide, not just a single subsidiary. The original claim that Android Auto does a lot of data collection comes from a Motor Trend article which has been denied by Google, and I'm sure this post will be quoted with "a likely story" style quips. We've also had both GM and Ford claiming that there's very limited access to data collection which does directly contradict the Motor Trend report and it's unlikely that Google will give two different policies to different companies. Pretty much until someone does some packet sniffing it'll just come down to whichever company you decide to believe.
What I'm more thinking it's related to is that Android Auto has the capability of sending data to a competitor, seeing as google is currently manufacturing cars and don't mind giving such data to Apple as their car is still nothing but whispers in the wind. That, or it's an exclusivity agreement wrapped in an NDA and numerous layers of bullplop which all in all makes the most sense.
I have 10,000 friends who drive 2017 Porsches. And they all have iPhone7's.
Its the internet! Its not like anything typed requires proof lol.
Do you have a link to the source for Jason98's original claim? waterrocket's post seems more believable, but if you have evidence to back up this[Jason98's] claim I'll believe you.
This is bs. The real reason of the switch is likely to be exactly 0 customers (outside of googleplex) having android phones.
Its the internet! Its not like anything typed requires proof lol.
So you think Motor Trend and/or Porsche are full of crap too?
Well... computers are quite out of Microsoft's regular occupation... considering that software and services are their bread & butter. I'm considering it hobby because they don't really depend on Surface product line success... and they can afford to go back to drawing board are improve it again and again.
I had same feeling about Surface Pro 3. It is well crafted, well thought off product - within set parameters (of convertible devices). I think it compares favourably to everything else in Windows world, in terms of quality of parts, fit and finish. A lot of attention put in this design.
The real question: Is it illegal to disable your EDR (aka "black box" recorder) in your car?
I did find this: https://www.autocyb.com
It's possible it is illegal, as there are a bazillion laws/regulations that are virtually impossible to decode for the layperson.
But it wouldn't surprise me if you can't really disable it, as it's built into the various computers running in your car, and you'd have to reverse-engineer the software on those computers [and get your new software loaded] to just do their normal work and not do the data logging [or erase it periodically]. Some stuff needs to be tracked over time [at least over a short time], like throttle position, engine speed, transmission gear, to determine how much fuel to deliver.
And that autocyb thing is stupid, it's just an expensive cover for your ODB-II port. for virtually any case where you would want to deny someone access to that port, you would be required by a judge to permit them [or a qualified representative] to access it.
Yes I can well imagine the powers that be at VW preferring to work with a company that will not share information ...
No. It was just about someone at VW making a dumb choice to cheat on the software instead of adhering to the local emissions regulations, which would've added cost and reduced performance.
No. It was just about someone at VW making a dumb choice to cheat on the software instead of adhering to the local emissions regulations, which would've added cost and reduced performance.
There was added cost in writing the cheating software, not in meeting emissions standards. The vehicles were already capable of adhering to emissions standards in various locales, as they routinely demonstrate when tested.
What we're looking at here is that consumer expectations and emissions regulations needed a technology bridge that did not exist, so VW carefully engineered a system that deceived both.
This was no accident, nor the work of one engineer, nor even one team of engineers. This was a corporate program to deliver performance while passing emissions tests.
Now we wait while people start testing all the other cars out there, when we'll discover that most of the competitors are doping, just like in pro sports.