Yes - but I don't think he was trying to conceal it. I had also failed to figure out how to get the inverted exclamation mark until your recent post on option-1 and long-press-!. Not sure how I missed those, but I did.
1) He explained his methodology and I except it. I don't think he was trying to conceal it, but it certainly looked that way with the character chosen. The character viewer text sizes and fonts aren't necessary the same as where you're adding them.
2) I honestly don't understand how Mac and iOS users aren't familiar with the easily accessible extended keyboard options. With Windows, I understand; you have (had?) to do some funky shit with the num pad while remembering the codes to get them to appear on screen. Apple has done an amazing job in making it simple:
Yes - but I don't think he was trying to conceal it. I had also failed to figure out how to get the inverted exclamation mark until your recent post on option-1 and long-press-!. Not sure how I missed those, but I did.
1) He explained his methodology and I except it. I don't think he was trying to conceal it, but it certainly looked that way with the character chosen. The character viewer text sizes and fonts aren't necessary the same as where you're adding them.
2) I honestly don't understand how Mac and iOS users aren't familiar with the easily accessible extended keyboard options. With Windows, I understand; you have (had?) to do some funky shit with the num pad while remembering the codes to get them to appear on screen. Apple has done an amazing job in making it simple: Shift-1 = !, Option–1 = ¡; Shift–3 = #, Option–3 = £; Shift–4 = $, Option–4 = ¢; "dash" = -, Shift–"dash" = underscore, Option–"dash" = "en dash", Shift–Option–"dash" = "em dash". The only one that seems really out of place, and probably because they were limited on choices is: Option–K = ?.
PS: I wish they would make Shift–Option–K = "empty Apple symbol".
I thought that I was familiar with most of the extended keyboard options, but this one, somehow, escaped me. And the ? for that matter - I knew that option-k is the degree symbol but never found the upper-case version. Need to spend more time exploring the character viewer, I guess.
Solved? What about pockets? If they aren't checked then perhaps the most used storage depot for employee-pilfered goodies, particularly by the male employees, is being ignored. There's a whole lotta expensive Apple products in their store that fit in a pocket just fine. If mitigating Apple employee theft is the priority they're not doing what they should if that theft vector is ignored. In fact I think it more likely an employee would stuff a stolen accessory ,perhaps even a phone, in a pocket rather than a bag that's sure to be checked.
Of course if employees don't want to be delayed for a security check then don't choose to wear something with pockets. I would add a sarcasm tag but that's not really in jest.
The thing is that many of the small items that can easily fit into a pocket can only fit into a pocket without the packaging. An iPhone or iPod will not fit into an average pocket while still in the packaging. Which means that a thief would have to leave the packaging behind if he/she intends to get the stolen iPhone (or iPod) pass the security check, in his/her pocket. And the discarded packaging must be left behind in an area that is only accessible to employees, as all customer areas are monitored by cameras. That would be evidence to Apple that an employee is stealing from them and Apple might start monitoring the employees even more. Something the thief don't want because it would make it harder to steal again. I'm sure the custodians are instructed to notify a manager if they find product packaging in a trash can or stuffed in out of sight areas that they clean. Plus the discarded packaging might yield fingerprints.
There's a reason why small items comes in large packaging that and can't easily be removed from the packaging. It's mainly to prevent customers from easily pocketing the item. This also makes it harder for an employee to steal, as leaving behind the packaging in an employee area, packaging that might also have his/her fingerprints on it, is not something an employee that is stealing would want to do.
I thought that I was familiar with most of the extended keyboard options, but this one, somehow, escaped me. And the ? for that matter - I knew that option-k is the degree symbol but never found the upper-case version. Need to spend more time exploring the character viewer, I guess.
Option–K = "ring above sign" and Shift–Option-8 = "degree sign". I don't know what "ring above" would be used for.
I thought that I was familiar with most of the extended keyboard options, but this one, somehow, escaped me. And the ? for that matter - I knew that option-k is the degree symbol but never found the upper-case version. Need to spend more time exploring the character viewer, I guess.
Option–K = "ring above sign" and Shift–Option-8 = "degree sign". I don't know what "ring above" would be used for.
Ring Above example: 71?
Degree sign example: 71°
Well I always use option-k as a degree sign - I had never noticed that it is smaller than the shift-option-8 version. Strange.
I wanted to reply to this not to agree or disagree with the judge but to give some perspective from an employee point of view. I used to work at the Apple Store for 5 years as a Business Specialist at one of the busiest locations (we did anywhere from .75 to 1 million of sales per week). I totally understand the bag and technology checks but after awhile, I got tired of it and stopped bringing my bag and my phone to work. I even switched to Android for even less hassle. Luckily, this particular Apple Store later in the years was able to get an offsite room where we can store our bags, jackets, etc. without going through a check. That definitely helped, however, other Apple Stores are still not lucky. Everyone's idea is to leave your stuff at home or in your car. In regards to the latter, it's definitely not ideal to leave your valuables in your car so why would you want to leave your $1200+ Mac and/or your $600+ phone in the car? What if you don't have a car? What if you're a student and you just got out of class? You have no choice but to bring it with you. Secondly, most Apple Stores are busy from opening to close. The individuals that verify these checks are mostly the managers and 80% of the time, they're either occupied with a customer or an employee. Waiting to get them to verify that you own that Apple product your leaving with can take anywhere from 5 minutes to 30 minutes (longer closer to the Holidays and Back to School season). It takes even longer if your iPhone runs out of power because they need to see the serial #. Believe me, the impossible always happens at the Apple Store and I thought I have seen it all. I basically rate the Apple Store as a super high end Walmart that only deals with Apple products.
We need to understand also that this was not the action of thousands of Apple employees banded together like the picture in this article would have you believe. This lawsuit was filed by a couple of disgruntled employees claiming to represent a class of Apple employees.
This lawsuit was filed by attorneys. They get the real money if they win. The employees get pretty much jack, squat if they win.
Well of course it would be the employees fault. Thank goodness for employees they aren't checking pockets too which would generally impact all of them, altho some companies no doubt do. At least those others are now on notice they don't need to be paying their employees waiting for them to be conducted, and can stop doing paying them if they already were. A nice little piece of savings at least for the retailers doing checks.
Who's fault is it if it's not the employees's fault?
Well, instead of "don't bring a bag", why isn't the solution, "search them before they clock out"?
That comes out of the company's (and the customers') time, and the fact that the employee chooses to bring a bag is not Apple's problem, as numerous posters have pointed out?
Well, fine, but these aren't people - in their age or economic bracket - who have much choice about carrying personal items and/or books, etc. with them when the start their day, which includes multiple destinations...as numerous posters and a moment's consideration would suggest.
Of course - they could just leave them all in the limo...?
And yes, I sincerely believe what Apple insists on doing to run its business properly should come out of Apple's time, and proper management organization will ensure it does not, in fact, come out of the "customer's time".
Try, for a moment, thinking of the employees as being human beings just like the customers of whom you are so solicitous.
This judge is an idiot. It's not just bag checks. If you have an iPhone, you have to show the serial number of your office against a card with your phones serial number written down, signed by a manager to make sure your aren't stealing a store iPhone. Same thing for any Apple device you bring into the store. A manager writes the serial number of your device on a card and signs it and then gives it to you to show any manager when you want to leave the store. So when the store closes at night and 10+ people have to have a manager look at the serials of every employee who has an iPhone must be performed, that adds up over time. Same thing happens when you take a break outside the store.
This judge is an idiot. It's not just bag checks. If you have an iPhone, you have to show the serial number of your office against a card with your phones serial number written down, signed by a manager to make sure your aren't stealing a store iPhone. Same thing for any Apple device you bring into the store. A manager writes the serial number of your device on a card and signs it and then gives it to you to show any manager when you want to leave the store. So when the store closes at night and 10+ people have to have a manager look at the serials of every employee who has an iPhone must be performed, that adds up over time. Same thing happens when you take a break outside the store.
Just wait until you get the comments defending Apple at every turn. "Then you shouldn't bring an iPhone to work. You should leave it at home."
I worked Apple retail for over 7 years, and those who complain about bag checks are in the minority, and chasing unjustified money! It never took me more than a couple of minutes to find a manager to check my stuff, and there was never a complaint voiced by other employees about the issue!
This judge is an idiot. It's not just bag checks. If you have an iPhone, you have to show the serial number of your office against a card with your phones serial number written down, signed by a manager to make sure your aren't stealing a store iPhone. Same thing for any Apple device you bring into the store. A manager writes the serial number of your device on a card and signs it and then gives it to you to show any manager when you want to leave the store. So when the store closes at night and 10+ people have to have a manager look at the serials of every employee who has an iPhone must be performed, that adds up over time. Same thing happens when you take a break outside the store.
Looks like another case of failure to comprehend. The issue has never been about the bag check, the iPhone or any Apple devices. The issue is the time it takes to do the check. Is the time it takes compensatable? The judge is only interpreting the labor labor laws that were passed by Congress in 1937 (FLSA) and 1947 (Portal to Portal Act). Those laws do not specify iPhones or any Apple devices or the needs of the employees. Federal (and CA) labor laws states that the time needed to search anything that is not required to do the job the employee was hire to do is not compensatable. The only issue the judge has to interpret is whether the bag, iPhone and any Apple devices are required for the employee to do the job he/she was hire to do or Apple required the employee to bring his/her Apple devices to work. The judge do not take into consideration whether the employee requires the iPhone to update his/her Facebook account and check his/her eMail while at work because that is not the issue.
There are laws that protects the needs of a disabled employee and the search of anything that may needed for his/her disability must be done on the clock. But an Apple Store employee without his/her Apple device is not disabled, no matter what some on here thinks. But it wouldn't surprise me if some lawyer tries to use that as a means to getting Apple Device check done on the clock.
You know, 20 years ago workers got along fine without needing a cell phone or laptop while at work. When companies started banning smoking in the work place, smokers were still able to do their job. In may have been an inconvenience to smoke outside in the winter time and away from any entrances. Some companies ban smoking all together on company property. No one felt sorry for them. And it's got to be a lot harder for a smoker to give up smoking for 8 hours than it is for anyone to be without an iPhone for 8 hours. But smokers were still able to do their job despite the smoking ban in the work place.
This was just a CA Federal Judge on this ruling. In 2014, 9 Supreme Court Justices voted the same way, in a similar case against Amazon. Are they also idiots? Maybe we should repeal the law that protects same sex marriages as 5 of these Supreme Justices voted for it. How can we trust the jugement of these 5 Justices when, according to you, they must be idiots.
Judges do not make the laws. They can rule a law unjust and force law makers to change it. And in the 75 years since the passing of the FLSA and the dozens of cases brought in front of judges concerning what is considered compensatable time in a work place, not one judge has ruled the law, that supports this ruling, as unjust and must be changed. If you want to change the labor laws, then you need to deal with those idiots in Congress.
BTW- I would think that not all Apple devices needs to be thoroughly checked with the serial number card, as many Apple Store employees must own older devices that Apple no longer sells in their Stores. Though I guess an Apple Store employee could steal an older Apple device that a customer brought in for service. But I really don't think that an employee would need to show the card with the matching serial number for a beat up looking white MacBook with an identifying sticker or an old iPhone 4s. Figuring after a week or so, the checker would recognize it and would no longer need to see the serial number card. Unless customers devices, that was brought in for servicing, starts disappearing.
Quote:
Just wait until you get the comments defending Apple at every turn. "Then you shouldn't bring an iPhone to work. You should leave it at home.
@solipsism- I'm not defending Apple here. I'm defending the Judge and his ruling. It is the right ruling according to the labor laws that he must use to make his ruling.
Just wait until you get the comments defending Apple at every turn. "Then you shouldn't bring an iPhone to work. You should leave it at home."
There are plenty of work environments where you are not allowed to bring your iPhone to work (or any private electronic devices)..... you must leave any electronics with security before coming into work if you do, and retrieve it from security AFTER you have left work. These devices are security risks.
There are plenty of work environments where you are not allowed to bring your iPhone to work (or any private electronic devices)..... you must leave any electronics with security before coming into work if you do, and retrieve it from security AFTER you have left work. These devices are security risks.
Yep. It's certainly not just retail-level jobs. I have friends working $200k/yr jobs where they are unable to bring any electronics to work.
Comments
1) He explained his methodology and I except it. I don't think he was trying to conceal it, but it certainly looked that way with the character chosen. The character viewer text sizes and fonts aren't necessary the same as where you're adding them.
2) I honestly don't understand how Mac and iOS users aren't familiar with the easily accessible extended keyboard options. With Windows, I understand; you have (had?) to do some funky shit with the num pad while remembering the codes to get them to appear on screen. Apple has done an amazing job in making it simple:
The only one that seems really out of place, and probably because they were limited on choices is: Option–Shift–K = ?.
PS: I wish they would make Option–K = "empty Apple symbol".
Yes - but I don't think he was trying to conceal it. I had also failed to figure out how to get the inverted exclamation mark until your recent post on option-1 and long-press-!. Not sure how I missed those, but I did.
1) He explained his methodology and I except it. I don't think he was trying to conceal it, but it certainly looked that way with the character chosen. The character viewer text sizes and fonts aren't necessary the same as where you're adding them.
2) I honestly don't understand how Mac and iOS users aren't familiar with the easily accessible extended keyboard options. With Windows, I understand; you have (had?) to do some funky shit with the num pad while remembering the codes to get them to appear on screen. Apple has done an amazing job in making it simple: Shift-1 = !, Option–1 = ¡; Shift–3 = #, Option–3 = £; Shift–4 = $, Option–4 = ¢; "dash" = -, Shift–"dash" = underscore, Option–"dash" = "en dash", Shift–Option–"dash" = "em dash". The only one that seems really out of place, and probably because they were limited on choices is: Option–K = ?.
PS: I wish they would make Shift–Option–K = "empty Apple symbol".
I thought that I was familiar with most of the extended keyboard options, but this one, somehow, escaped me. And the ? for that matter - I knew that option-k is the degree symbol but never found the upper-case version. Need to spend more time exploring the character viewer, I guess.
Solved? What about pockets? If they aren't checked then perhaps the most used storage depot for employee-pilfered goodies, particularly by the male employees, is being ignored. There's a whole lotta expensive Apple products in their store that fit in a pocket just fine. If mitigating Apple employee theft is the priority they're not doing what they should if that theft vector is ignored. In fact I think it more likely an employee would stuff a stolen accessory ,perhaps even a phone, in a pocket rather than a bag that's sure to be checked.
Of course if employees don't want to be delayed for a security check then don't choose to wear something with pockets. I would add a sarcasm tag but that's not really in jest.
The thing is that many of the small items that can easily fit into a pocket can only fit into a pocket without the packaging. An iPhone or iPod will not fit into an average pocket while still in the packaging. Which means that a thief would have to leave the packaging behind if he/she intends to get the stolen iPhone (or iPod) pass the security check, in his/her pocket. And the discarded packaging must be left behind in an area that is only accessible to employees, as all customer areas are monitored by cameras. That would be evidence to Apple that an employee is stealing from them and Apple might start monitoring the employees even more. Something the thief don't want because it would make it harder to steal again. I'm sure the custodians are instructed to notify a manager if they find product packaging in a trash can or stuffed in out of sight areas that they clean. Plus the discarded packaging might yield fingerprints.
There's a reason why small items comes in large packaging that and can't easily be removed from the packaging. It's mainly to prevent customers from easily pocketing the item. This also makes it harder for an employee to steal, as leaving behind the packaging in an employee area, packaging that might also have his/her fingerprints on it, is not something an employee that is stealing would want to do.
Option–K = "ring above sign" and Shift–Option-8 = "degree sign". I don't know what "ring above" would be used for.
Ring Above example: 71?
Degree sign example: 71°
Edit: http://www.tekrevue.com/tip/degree-symbol-mac-os-x/
°?
I thought that I was familiar with most of the extended keyboard options, but this one, somehow, escaped me. And the ? for that matter - I knew that option-k is the degree symbol but never found the upper-case version. Need to spend more time exploring the character viewer, I guess.
Option–K = "ring above sign" and Shift–Option-8 = "degree sign". I don't know what "ring above" would be used for.
Ring Above example: 71?
Degree sign example: 71°
Well I always use option-k as a degree sign - I had never noticed that it is smaller than the shift-option-8 version. Strange.
I wanted to reply to this not to agree or disagree with the judge but to give some perspective from an employee point of view. I used to work at the Apple Store for 5 years as a Business Specialist at one of the busiest locations (we did anywhere from .75 to 1 million of sales per week). I totally understand the bag and technology checks but after awhile, I got tired of it and stopped bringing my bag and my phone to work. I even switched to Android for even less hassle. Luckily, this particular Apple Store later in the years was able to get an offsite room where we can store our bags, jackets, etc. without going through a check. That definitely helped, however, other Apple Stores are still not lucky. Everyone's idea is to leave your stuff at home or in your car. In regards to the latter, it's definitely not ideal to leave your valuables in your car so why would you want to leave your $1200+ Mac and/or your $600+ phone in the car? What if you don't have a car? What if you're a student and you just got out of class? You have no choice but to bring it with you. Secondly, most Apple Stores are busy from opening to close. The individuals that verify these checks are mostly the managers and 80% of the time, they're either occupied with a customer or an employee. Waiting to get them to verify that you own that Apple product your leaving with can take anywhere from 5 minutes to 30 minutes (longer closer to the Holidays and Back to School season). It takes even longer if your iPhone runs out of power because they need to see the serial #. Believe me, the impossible always happens at the Apple Store and I thought I have seen it all. I basically rate the Apple Store as a super high end Walmart that only deals with Apple products.
We need to understand also that this was not the action of thousands of Apple employees banded together like the picture in this article would have you believe. This lawsuit was filed by a couple of disgruntled employees claiming to represent a class of Apple employees.
This lawsuit was filed by attorneys. They get the real money if they win. The employees get pretty much jack, squat if they win.
Who's fault is it if it's not the employees's fault?
Well, instead of "don't bring a bag", why isn't the solution, "search them before they clock out"?
That comes out of the company's (and the customers') time, and the fact that the employee chooses to bring a bag is not Apple's problem, as numerous posters have pointed out?
Well, fine, but these aren't people - in their age or economic bracket - who have much choice about carrying personal items and/or books, etc. with them when the start their day, which includes multiple destinations...as numerous posters and a moment's consideration would suggest.
Of course - they could just leave them all in the limo...?
And yes, I sincerely believe what Apple insists on doing to run its business properly should come out of Apple's time, and proper management organization will ensure it does not, in fact, come out of the "customer's time".
Try, for a moment, thinking of the employees as being human beings just like the customers of whom you are so solicitous.
Just wait until you get the comments defending Apple at every turn. "Then you shouldn't bring an iPhone to work. You should leave it at home."
This judge is an idiot. It's not just bag checks. If you have an iPhone, you have to show the serial number of your office against a card with your phones serial number written down, signed by a manager to make sure your aren't stealing a store iPhone. Same thing for any Apple device you bring into the store. A manager writes the serial number of your device on a card and signs it and then gives it to you to show any manager when you want to leave the store. So when the store closes at night and 10+ people have to have a manager look at the serials of every employee who has an iPhone must be performed, that adds up over time. Same thing happens when you take a break outside the store.
Looks like another case of failure to comprehend. The issue has never been about the bag check, the iPhone or any Apple devices. The issue is the time it takes to do the check. Is the time it takes compensatable? The judge is only interpreting the labor labor laws that were passed by Congress in 1937 (FLSA) and 1947 (Portal to Portal Act). Those laws do not specify iPhones or any Apple devices or the needs of the employees. Federal (and CA) labor laws states that the time needed to search anything that is not required to do the job the employee was hire to do is not compensatable. The only issue the judge has to interpret is whether the bag, iPhone and any Apple devices are required for the employee to do the job he/she was hire to do or Apple required the employee to bring his/her Apple devices to work. The judge do not take into consideration whether the employee requires the iPhone to update his/her Facebook account and check his/her eMail while at work because that is not the issue.
There are laws that protects the needs of a disabled employee and the search of anything that may needed for his/her disability must be done on the clock. But an Apple Store employee without his/her Apple device is not disabled, no matter what some on here thinks. But it wouldn't surprise me if some lawyer tries to use that as a means to getting Apple Device check done on the clock.
You know, 20 years ago workers got along fine without needing a cell phone or laptop while at work. When companies started banning smoking in the work place, smokers were still able to do their job. In may have been an inconvenience to smoke outside in the winter time and away from any entrances. Some companies ban smoking all together on company property. No one felt sorry for them. And it's got to be a lot harder for a smoker to give up smoking for 8 hours than it is for anyone to be without an iPhone for 8 hours. But smokers were still able to do their job despite the smoking ban in the work place.
This was just a CA Federal Judge on this ruling. In 2014, 9 Supreme Court Justices voted the same way, in a similar case against Amazon. Are they also idiots? Maybe we should repeal the law that protects same sex marriages as 5 of these Supreme Justices voted for it. How can we trust the jugement of these 5 Justices when, according to you, they must be idiots.
Judges do not make the laws. They can rule a law unjust and force law makers to change it. And in the 75 years since the passing of the FLSA and the dozens of cases brought in front of judges concerning what is considered compensatable time in a work place, not one judge has ruled the law, that supports this ruling, as unjust and must be changed. If you want to change the labor laws, then you need to deal with those idiots in Congress.
BTW- I would think that not all Apple devices needs to be thoroughly checked with the serial number card, as many Apple Store employees must own older devices that Apple no longer sells in their Stores. Though I guess an Apple Store employee could steal an older Apple device that a customer brought in for service. But I really don't think that an employee would need to show the card with the matching serial number for a beat up looking white MacBook with an identifying sticker or an old iPhone 4s. Figuring after a week or so, the checker would recognize it and would no longer need to see the serial number card. Unless customers devices, that was brought in for servicing, starts disappearing.
@solipsism- I'm not defending Apple here. I'm defending the Judge and his ruling. It is the right ruling according to the labor laws that he must use to make his ruling.
Just wait until you get the comments defending Apple at every turn. "Then you shouldn't bring an iPhone to work. You should leave it at home."
There are plenty of work environments where you are not allowed to bring your iPhone to work (or any private electronic devices)..... you must leave any electronics with security before coming into work if you do, and retrieve it from security AFTER you have left work. These devices are security risks.
There are plenty of work environments where you are not allowed to bring your iPhone to work (or any private electronic devices)..... you must leave any electronics with security before coming into work if you do, and retrieve it from security AFTER you have left work. These devices are security risks.
Yep. It's certainly not just retail-level jobs. I have friends working $200k/yr jobs where they are unable to bring any electronics to work.