Apple's new iPad Pro is faster, more affordable than Microsoft's Surface Pro 4



  • Reply 321 of 324
    Wow, someone drank the Cool Aid. The Surface Pro isn't failing, quarterily sales have steadily increased. It's not iPad volumes but a company doesn't need to sell the equivilant to be profitable and the platform is profitable. Also anyone needing a Surface Pro would not be happy with an iPad Pro, as much as everyone here thinks so, especially in it's current state, i.e. IOS. CPU speed is also just one piece of the pie, the iPad Pro might be faster but the Surface Pro is still a lot more powerful because of it's OS, even the Atom based Surface 3 model. Yes, Windows 10 is missing those much needed tablet apps to make it a complete package, however it's a full blown PC which means you can install those missing components. I've installed Remix OS onto my Surface Pro 4 and it's works great, I have every single tablet app that I wanted/needed, they look great, contrary to the belief that Android doesn't have any decent apps, though ironically not only do I have the same exact apps that I've installed onto my iPad Pro (except for my music creation apps), do to over half of those installed apps not supporting the Pro's resolution and as such are pixel doubled, the Android apps actually look a lot better because they actually do support the 2K resolution of the Surface Pro 4. Also because I'musing Remix OS that supports multi-window, mice, has a much better file-management system, is able to run apps in the background (all of them and not just a few GPS and audio apps), sharing is at the core of the system (unlike iOS in which it's Sharing capabilities are glued together using API's and requires the app developers to manually create share profiles in order for their apps to communicate with each other and even the system itself), supports the resolution, aspect ratio of my monitor as well is able to change the DPI to reflect that of a traditional desktop UI and is able to extend the desktop, not just mirror it, etc. the Surface Pro 4 running an Android OS is even better for most productivity than the iPad Pro running it's core OS. Okay, yes iOS is a lot better than Android for certain apps like, drawing, music creation and other such creative tasks however when it comes to Offiice related tasks, there is just no comparison. 

    I bought both the keyboard and Pencil with my iPad Pro, both of those accessories are now in a drawer. I know I said this before but like Tim Cook said about notebooks with touchscreen being a failed concept, partially do to the user constantly having to reach up and over the keyboard, he's absolutely right, I however ironically found this out by using the iPad Pro. The whole experience just irritated me, it wasn't until I just said screw it and detached the keyboard and used the virtual keyboard that I was able to comfortably work. Why, well obviously my hands were now already on the display so typing and navigating the UI was not only faster but a lot more comfortable. However, even that didn't improve my overall workflow when trying to use the iPad Pro as a development machine. Before you jump on me about that, I was only using an online IDE, or cloud app called Cloud 9, so it wasn't like I was using a stand alone IDE or anything that advanced. I just had a browser and terminal app opened (which looked like crap because the resolution wasn't right). Just trying to copy and paste text (hold finger over text, select copy, go to place, hold finger down, select paste, which by the way worked about 60% of the time, selecting text on certain sites doesn't work all the time (with a mouse and keyboard, I'm 4x faster and accurate), move test around, trying to run the terminal in the background (which was impossible do as iOS kept terminating the connections to my Dev server every 3 minutes, I also couldn't run it in a dual app view with Chrome because well, only about 120 apps air so actually support that feature). The Pencil, I'm not an artist, I just wanted a stylus that I could use not only for writing but also to navigate the system UI with, as such I just use a Jot, it's Bluetooth, Palm rejection, pressure sensitive and I honestly cannot tell the difference between it and the Pencil, nor has the 12 people that I let try been able to either. This is isn't an exaggeration, it's just the truth, though again, I'm just scribbling in Evernote and Bamboo Paper, besides the system.

    That's why when I read these posts where people keep saying how much better multitasking is in iOS 9, I had to chime in. Because of that damn Walled Garden nonsense (the root of all evil in iOS), everytime IOS get's a fancy new feature, I consider it as preview and don't expect to actually use it until about 6 months later, when all of my apps are finially caught up. I mean you know something's wrong when 3 months later, only about .18% (that's a .18 not even a full percent as there is only about 120 apps out 1.5 million) in the App Store support that support the dual app view feature yet, heck not even Pinterest. I'm also pretty sure that the total percentage of apps that support the iPad's resolution is also a really small number.

    What does all of this have to do with my point, your trying to make it sound like the Surface Pro 4 just can't compare to the iPad Pro when in reality they are two completely different machines that have no business being put up against each other. Like it or not, try to bend it which ever way you want, embellish the capabilities, whatever, the truth and the fact of the matter is, that the iPad Pro is just another iPad, just larger, that's it. So what you were doing on your iPad Air is exactly what you'll be doing on your iPad Pro, trying to extend capabilities that simply aren't there is only valuable to those who are trying to justify the cost of it. Which for what it is, is very expensive. I bought mine On the notion that I would be able to replace two of the three iPad Air's I own, I have that many because I want to run at least three of my music creation apps at once for live music. I thought I would be able to run two of those music creation apps side by side, however with Apple, what you plan is never actually what you get. To add even more salt to that purchase wound, none of my apps support the iPad Pro's resolution, so they all look huge and weird, now I'm sure in time this will all be fixed but after doing some research it looks like I won't be running two of my apps at the same time, anytime soon.

    I'm sure the iPad Pro will get better and better, though I can't recommend enough to wait for the second one for those who are looking at one now, however as it is now I'm extremely disappointed. Also please stop comparing the Surface Pro 4 to the iPad Pro, it's more in line with a MacBook Air or 12. The only thing the two really have in common is that their both touchscreen devices.
  • Reply 322 of 324
    When Apple first unveiled iPad Pro, it noted that its custom designed A9X chip would be faster than 80 percent of the PCs that shipped this year. Benchmarks indicate that it's not just faster than low end generic PCs, but also faster -- and less expensive -- than Microsoft's Surface Pro 4.
    Apple sells one basic model of iPad Pro, with different storage and cellular capacities, starting at $799. Microsoft's Surface Pro is offered in three processor tiers, each with different storage options. It starts at $899. However, the $899 model is outfitted with a low end Intel Core m3 processor, which Apple's custom A9X soundly trumps in both single core and multicore tests, despite the iPad Pro having an extra million and a half more pixels to manage on the screen. Even Apple's $499 iPad Air 2 beats the $899 Surface Pro 4 in multicore tests, while scoring slightly lower in single core performance, and delivers that compairable performance with a price tag that's $400 lower. To get a Surface Pro 4 that has more CPU power than iPad Pro, you have to upgrade to the $1299 version, $500 more than an iPad Pro To get a Surface Pro 4 that has more CPU power than iPad Pro, you have to upgrade to the $1299 version powered by an Intel Core i5, which costs as much as Apple's 13 inch MacBook Pro. However, the i5-powered Surface Pro 4 costs $500 more than an iPad Pro. To cast a flattering halo of performance muscle over its Surface line, Microsoft introduced an even more expensive Surface Book laptop, which it delivered to members of the media in version packing a Core i7 that it claimed to be "twice as fast" as Apple's MacBook Pro, although that's not really true. The Surface Book is faster than Apple's 13 inch, entry level MacBook Pro that lacks a dedicated graphics chip, but only in the area of graphics performance. But it's also more expensive. In fact, the Surface Book model Microsoft sent to reviewers costs $2700, making it $200 more expensive than even a Core i7-powered 15 inch MacBook Pro, which does have a dedicated GPU. However, Apple's 15 inch MacBook Pro also uses a quad core i7, which makes it twice as fast as the dual core i7 Surface Book (according to real world testing performed by Fstoppers photographer Lee Morris). And it's still $200 less than Surface Book.

    Why are Microsoft's PCs so slow and expensive?

    Since the early 1990s, Microsoft has positioned Windows PCs as offering a cheaper alternative to Apple's Macs, often with a performance advantage to boot. However, this cost savings came with the caveat of being more arcane to use, a problem that was eventually made up for by the broader ecosystem of Windows software that Microsoft cultivated among developers. Over the past decade, Apple has steadily won back increased Mac market share by focusing on quality; the company is now selling about 4.5 times as many Macs as it was in 2006. Over the past several years, Apple's growth in Mac sales have come even as the overall market for PCs has contracted. Since 2011, total global PCs have fallen from 355 million units annually to just 302 million last year, a drop of 15 percent. That's erased $17 billion in annual, combined PC revenues. Over that same period, Apple's Mac revenues have increased by about $1.3 billion per year. Apple's increase in Mac sales has come not just in unit shipments but in an expansion of control over the high end, where profits are. And Apple's profits are being reinvested into making even higher-end Macs, including the new Retina Display MacBook and 5K iMac.

    Macs aren't killing PCs, iPads are

    However, Apple's moderate expansion of higher end Mac sales in the face of PC market contraction doesn't explain 50 million missing computer sales. For that, you have to look at Apple's other computer product: iPad. It has been selling more than 50 million units per year, generating $20-30 billion for Apple annually. Apple's iPad sales peaked in 2013. However, despite incredible claims by the media that "people are simply not buying new ones" (as Joanna Stern of the Wall Street Journal recently wrote), Apple has continued to sell more than 50 million units this year, despite having focused sales attention on its large iPhone 6 Plus and new Retina Display Macbook over that period, while only moderately updating its iPad mini lineup last fall. Apple's new iPhones and MacBooks are more expensive, and therefore more profitable, than iPads. Additionally, Apple's iPad business faced zero effective competition last year, as Microsoft's Surface didn't sell well anywhere but in the minds of Windows Enthusiasts, who have taken to calling the device "popular," apparently because it sounds nice to think so. Android tablets can be called popular, but they are not profitable for anyone who builds them. Not Google's partners, not Amazon, not Samsung. The fact that Apple sold over 50 million iPads in fiscal 2015 while so many low end Android tablets were offered at fire sale prices makes it pretty clear that Apple didn't face external competitive erosion of its iPad business; its iPad numbers were mostly eaten into by larger iPhones as well as more performant, more capable and more expensive Macs. That's the sort of "cannibalism" that Apple's chief executive Tim Cook has told analysts that he's learned not to worry about. Apple's in business to make money, not to increment its unit shipments at a regular pace across the board (even if that's what analysts choose to fixate upon). With iPads having already gobbled up a huge chunk of the PC market between 2010 and 2014 (and remaining on track to continue without any real competition), Apple's fiscal 2015 sales strategy targeted Samsung in the area of large phones, the sweetest low hanging fruit available. Sales of iPhone 6 and 6 Plus eviscerated Samsung fablets on the high end, effectively terminating Apple's largest competitive threat.

    That's what Surface was supposed to do to the iPad, but hasn't

    Apple's 2015 assault on Samsung's high end fablets worked well because Samsung's Galaxy models were priced higher than iPhones, despite having a weaker ecosystem, inferior build quality and poorer overall performance. The only advantage Samsung had prior to iPhone 6 was a wider range of screen sizes, something Apple could easily capitalize upon. Microsoft rushed to jump on the iPad bandwagon after a year of observing iPad sales take a big chunk out of Windows PC sales. It appears Microsoft thought it could beat Apple's iPad by similarly offering a feature-competitive alternative, leveraging its Windows ecosystem and selling the result at a comparable price. Its initial efforts to reshape the Windows PC into an iPad clone (an ARM-powered mobile tablet) completely failed with Surface RT, because nobody wanted a thick iPad running Windows, without actually being able to run real Windows apps. The company has since worked to focus on the superior performance of Surface Pro (an Intel powered laptop in the shape of its failed Surface RT form factor).
    Surface RT
    However, Surface Pro has effectively remained a big Zune: feature-comparable with Apple's highest-end offerings, at a price way too high for the Windows demographic that expects a cheap copy of Apple to actually be significantly less expensive than Apple. That problem is only getting worse for Surface Pro, because it relies upon Intel's expensive, premium x86 chips. When Apple first shipped iPad, it introduced it alongside the new A4, the first of its own custom Application Processors. Apple's investments in rapidly iterating faster and faster generations of its A-series chips have been paid for by huge volumes of iPhone and iPad profits. Today's A9X is now faster than entry level x86 chips, but costs a lot less. Another Zune-like problem: Surface Pro isn't just competing against iPad. In fact, visitors to a Microsoft Store see the $899 to $1299 base model Surface Pro 4 on a table opposite from $399 low end laptops and similarly priced, but more performant high end offerings from other PC makers. In the Apple Store, the only competitors to iPad are MacBooks and iPhones--and they all cost more.

    iPad Pro sets up another evisceration

    While Surface Pro has done nothing to threaten iPads the way that iPhone 6 hamstrung Samsung Galaxy sales, Apple's latest iPad Pro is poised to eat up any low hanging fruit in the "pro" segment between iPads and premium notebooks. Again, Apple has an ecosystem advantage to leverage because iOS is already familiar. The company has been working with IBM, Cisco, Adobe and other partners to develop custom apps and enterprise support in advance of its arrival. Corporate custom mobile apps are overwhelmingly already standardizing around iOS. That positions Apple's new iPad Pro with the potential to expand iPad's reach further into markets that formerly relied upon Windows PCs. At the same time, Apple's sustained volumes of premium iPhone sales will continue to enable the company to invest in even faster A-series chips, even as Microsoft's focus moves to cloud services and Intel works to keep its margins afloat with expensive x86 offerings, having failed to make progress in the mobile market, repeatedly. By focusing on the premium segment of the tablet and computer markets, Apple will increasingly force PC vendors downmarket, the same way iPhones have sucked most of the profits from the smartphone market without having to even approach the volume unit shipments of its competitors. In phones, that has made Apple so difficult to compete against that Google is now looking at ways to address Android's chip performance gap. In a year or two, Apple's A-series chips may even be suitable for use in Macs. However, if Apple can expand its iPad sales into new markets, it may not even have to bother to transition its Macs to ARM, given that iPad sales volumes have already made the company the largest producer of computers worldwide, and by far the most profitable.
    I was always under the impression that iPad's and Surface Pro's where for 2 different market segments. The iPad Pro does not run OS10. The Surface Pro runs Windows 10. What's Apple's total market share for computers, tablets, phones? I know the iPad is a great device. I think the Surface Pro is a fine Laptop replacement. I would think any talk about comparison would be done between MacBook Pro and MacBook Air vs Surface Pro's. 
  • Reply 323 of 324
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    I have the Surface Book.  It's a nicely designed Apple-ish product.  Thus far the docking mechanism has been quite solid.  

    I like it.  Not a huge fan of Windows 10 but's okay.  Folks taking a dump on the Suface Book or Surface 4 would buy them in a heartbeat if it ran OSX.  Nothing wrong with the hardware or fit and finish...they are tight pieces of gear.  

    Vastly prefer the Surfacebook to the MBA or MB.  My MBP is faster but it's also larger too.  Someone not editing video or doing significant computation would be fine with the Surface Book Core i7 performance.

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