Solving the mysterious failure of Apple's iPad

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  • Reply 41 of 153
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
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  • Reply 42 of 153
    jdw wrote: »
    Yes, well, the only thing I care about is to know whether or not YouTube is still restricted to foolish 720p on the iPad Pro.  Is the "Pro" still considered a silly "mobile" device, or is it "pro"?  

    Honestly, it makes no sense to use iPads as a Mac replacement if they cannot be a true replacement, even for simple, stupid things like watching YouTube videos in a decent resolution such as 1080p.  YouTube has 4K videos now, for crying out loud.  And where's the FCPX Mobile edition?  Only 4K EDITING but no ability to record?  Still includes lame, outdated camera tech?  Where's the PRO?  Oh, you mean the PENCIL, which isn't included???

    Functionality of the iPad line means MUCH, MUCH more than silly talk about sales, either pro or con.  FUNCTIONALITY is what matters.  The only reason I am mulling a MacBook over an iPad Pro is that I remain unconvinced that the iPad (or iOS in general) has what it takes to do even simple "work" tasks.  Focusing on "what we really can do in iOS vs MacOS" would be the makings of a truly meaningful editorial!

    It's time you, the Mac/Apple reporting media, start putting Apple to the fire on this.  They make so much money that they are getting lazy.  It's pretty much 2016 for goodness sake. Awesome computing tech is still very much the heart of Apple, and they need to get with the program on that.  iOS today is still System 1.0 on a Macintosh 128k in comparison to OS X.  Apple needs to fix that, and fast.
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  • Reply 43 of 153
    Great analysis. My own 2 cents is many, many more people want to buy an iPad but cannot afford one as they can afford the-tablets-that-spy-on-them. I personally know many people like my housekeeper, the waiters at my favorite restaurants, the local cops, etc. who have told me they want to buy iPads for themselves and their kids but cannot afford to. I helped one of them buy a used iPad but most of the want a new one but can't even afford the cheapest iPad mini. Just yesterday my housekeeper asked me about possible Black Friday deals for iPads and I promised to look into it for her.

    So Apple could have easily solved the "failure" by lowering prices, such as keeping iPad mini 1. People like my housekeeper are actually aware even the original mini still works great (because they got friends who could afford one).

    Given how average real income in the US have steadily declined in the past 7 or 8 years, it's high time Apple took a look at possibly serving the "masses". Not to mention the mess Europe is in. People just can't afford to buy new iPads, even though millions more want to.
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  • Reply 44 of 153
    The high reliability and long upgrade cycle "hurt," too. A family friend of ours, who makes millions a year, bought the original iPad and then a few iPad 2's for his family in 2011, but the did not buy another one for himself or his family until last week. I asked him several times why he didn't upgrade, he simply said his iPads were working great and why upgrade? (He's super wealthy but not tech savvy, and he does come to me often for tech advice.) Even though he's on his iPad all the time and I've never seen him use his MacBooks at home or outside, he does not see a need for the iPad Pro.

    This is not the only example. Many iPad users love their years-old iPads and simply don't want to upgrade, yet.
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  • Reply 45 of 153
    I think the sales are down because of longterm usage iPads and Chromebooks are also starting to eat into the territory. The Chromebook is a laptop like device and more familiar to people and the price is cheap for these things and thats what drives them! I predicted this years ago that our school would be buying them like crazy once certain people took control and its happening today because of the price! VMware is being used on the servers and now on old client hardware so we don't have to upgrade them and slowly phase them out and replace them with $200 dumb terminals and also include them in tuition and hand them out to students so they can remote in and get the schools image and software at home and almost anywhere and again they are cheap at $200-300! They have no viruses that I am aware and constantly updated. Getting them on students gets the school out from buying labs of hardware and opens up more rooms and getting rid of labs. I think this is whats hurting the iPads and if business catch on its only going to get worse!
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  • Reply 46 of 153
    I think it is as much that people who have iPads are satisfied with them. I have the iPad Air and I don't feel the need to upgrade to the iPad Air 2 or iPad Pro.
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  • Reply 47 of 153
    nevermark wrote: »
    Gruber (Daring Fireball) points out that Apple wants iPads to be iOS devices which allow real work to be done, i.e. they should run deeply functional apps.

    But Apple's app store doesn't encourage and support deeply functional apps which are funded successfully on PCs via paid major upgrades.

    In app purchases may seem similar, but there needs to be a clear difference between adding small optional features (in app purchases) and major upgrades. Apps with major paid upgrades allow application developers to not only make money on new customers, but periodically make money from their whole happy customer base. This is much greater revenue to fund deeper apps.

    I think the apps you are originally referring to would use subscriptions to fund them like Adobe does with their CC suite.
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  • Reply 48 of 153
    appex wrote: »
    To boost sales, Apple should make a Mac tablet. That easy!

    Nah! OS X is not optimized for s touch environment. Better to slowly engineer iOS toward greater functionality than to try to dump touch-centricity onto a massively complex desktop OS.
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  • Reply 49 of 153
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cashxx View Post



    I think the sales are down because of longterm usage iPads and Chromebooks are also starting to eat into the territory. The Chromebook is a laptop like device and more familiar to people and the price is cheap for these things and thats what drives them! I predicted this years ago that our school would be buying them like crazy once certain people took control and its happening today because of the price! VMware is being used on the servers and now on old client hardware so we don't have to upgrade them and slowly phase them out and replace them with $200 dumb terminals and also include them in tuition and hand them out to students so they can remote in and get the schools image and software at home and almost anywhere and again they are cheap at $200-300! They have no viruses that I am aware and constantly updated. Getting them on students gets the school out from buying labs of hardware and opens up more rooms and getting rid of labs. I think this is whats hurting the iPads and if business catch on its only going to get worse!

     

    Unless you prove that people buying chromebook and Ipad are the same people, which I doubt; one wouldn't be eating into the other AT ALL. Apple will never compete for the low end of the market EVER. Right now, they got 90% of profits in phones, tablets, desktops, laptops, etc. That's how they roll. If crapware sells more unit, they're not going there, just like they're not selling $100 phones.

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  • Reply 50 of 153
    jdw wrote: »
    Yes, well, the only thing I care about is to know whether or not YouTube is still restricted to foolish 720p on the iPad Pro.  Is the "Pro" still considered a silly "mobile" device, or is it "pro"?  

    Honestly, it makes no sense to use iPads as a Mac replacement if they cannot be a true replacement, even for simple, stupid things like watching YouTube videos in a decent resolution such as 1080p.  YouTube has 4K videos now, for crying out loud.  And where's the FCPX Mobile edition?  Only 4K EDITING but no ability to record?  Still includes lame, outdated camera tech?  Where's the PRO?  Oh, you mean the PENCIL, which isn't included???

    Functionality of the iPad line means MUCH, MUCH more than silly talk about sales, either pro or con.  FUNCTIONALITY is what matters.  The only reason I am mulling a MacBook over an iPad Pro is that I remain unconvinced that the iPad (or iOS in general) has what it takes to do even simple "work" tasks.  Focusing on "what we really can do in iOS vs MacOS" would be the makings of a truly meaningful editorial!  
    It's time you, the Mac/Apple reporting media, start putting Apple to the fire on this.  They make so much money that they are getting lazy.  It's pretty much 2016 for goodness sake.  If Jobs was still alive, he'd surely be kicking their fanny hard, and not just to kick out the mythical Apple car either.  Awesome computing tech is still very much the heart of Apple, and they need to get with the program on that.  iOS today is still System 1.0 on a Macintosh 128k in comparison to OS X.  Apple needs to fix that, and fast.

    Why would Apple want the iPad pro to be the same as a Mac? That is a Windows philosophy. The iPad pro offered additional functionality than the regular iPads but it is not meant to take the place of the Mac for power users. There will be more iPad Pro focused software in the future for sure, but the device has only been out for a week. And unless you knew Jobs personally quit acting like you knew what he would have done. Jobs could have just as easily told you to go !$&& yourself. Apple is going in a different direction than Microsoft which is putting the same desktop UI on every product. If you don't need it then don't buy it, but quit pretending that because it doesn't suit your needs that it doesn't suit others.
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  • Reply 51 of 153
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PS4DailyLove View Post



    Great analysis. My own 2 cents is many, many more people want to buy an iPad but cannot afford one as they can afford the-tablets-that-spy-on-them. I personally know many people like my housekeeper, the waiters at my favorite restaurants, the local cops, etc. who have told me they want to buy iPads for themselves and their kids but cannot afford to. I helped one of them buy a used iPad but most of the want a new one but can't even afford the cheapest iPad mini. Just yesterday my housekeeper asked me about possible Black Friday deals for iPads and I promised to look into it for her.



    So Apple could have easily solved the "failure" by lowering prices, such as keeping iPad mini 1. People like my housekeeper are actually aware even the original mini still works great (because they got friends who could afford one).



    Given how average real income in the US have steadily declined in the past 7 or 8 years, it's high time Apple took a look at possibly serving the "masses". Not to mention the mess Europe is in. People just can't afford to buy new iPads, even though millions more want to.

     

    Huh! Apple solves this failure by not making money... Because Apple doesn't really give a crap about revenues unless there is profit in it.

    Sad for your housekeeper, but Apple doesn't sell to her. They're not cutting their margins to sell more units. Long term, it is ALWAYS a losing proposition.

     

    Most of those cheap tablets barely last a year. So, how much money are they really saving? ZERO.

     

    Tablets sales except in the very low end, are down. In that low end, profit margins go from 0-5%. Apple would close shop on Ipads rather than sell there. Buying Apple offers you the whole integrated ecosystem and sw/hw, that's worth a lot more than the competition.

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  • Reply 52 of 153
    eriamjheriamjh Posts: 1,840member

    Answer: iPhone is eating iPad sales.  Apple is cannibalizing itself... and growing because of it.

     

    The iPad pro is enough to get me to start thinking about upgrading my iPad Air (1).  I want a bigger iPad or a thinner laptop, but not both.  I think I can make it work since I still have my iMac.

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  • Reply 53 of 153
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PS4DailyLove View Post



    Given how average real income in the US have steadily declined in the past 7 or 8 years, it's high time Apple took a look at possibly serving the "masses". Not to mention the mess Europe is in. People just can't afford to buy new iPads, even though millions more want to.

    Not all of Europe is the basket case you think it is. Perhaos you have been watching too much Fox News?

    As a long term investment, an iPad does (IMHO) work out cheaper than most Android devices.

     

    Some fairly decent low end Android tablets have proved too much of a loss to some brands. For example the Hudl. Yes this is not sold in the US much like the Nook isn't really sold here. The reviews were pretty good but only a couple of months after the introduction of the V2 model Tesco pulled the plug. I see this just as a fortaste of what will happen to other devices. Some of them aren't bad but they obviously don't make enough $$$ for their retailers.

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  • Reply 54 of 153
    boredumbboredumb Posts: 1,418member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Douglas Bailey View Post

    tldr

    People don't upgrade iPads as often as they upgrade iPhones.

    if you tl;dr, the point of the article is not upgrade cycles 


    It's at least a part of the point, or should be.

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  • Reply 55 of 153
    I was talking to a rep at the Apple Store yesterday and they said they were sold out of their stock of 128GB with cellular Space Gray iPad Pros and they were disappearing as soon as stock comes in. Looks like the high end is the hot seller again.
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  • Reply 56 of 153
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post



    I was talking to a rep at the Apple Store yesterday and they said they were sold out of their stock of 128GB with cellular Space Gray iPad Pros and they were disappearing as soon as stock comes in. Looks like the high end is the hot seller again.

     

    Apple has done a fine job then.... ;-).

    There is no competition there, none.

    So, get all the cookies.

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  • Reply 57 of 153

    I enjoyed this article. Interesting depiction of data and offering of some conclusions.

     

    I remember when Steve sat in a chair onstage to demo the new iPad. It seemed a little strange at the time, but as many things he worked on, it now looks insanely visionary. People now have more options to buy devices across a wide spectrum of offerings from Apple. What mix and choices you make is very, very personal. It is all about choices. One size doesn't fit all; people have very personal likes/dislikes.

     

    That said, I can't say how many times I now try to open my original iPad mini with touch ID. I'm so used to it from my iPhone 5s that I always forget it doesn't have it. But that mix of original iPad mini and iPhone 5s suit me fine for now. When money isn't an object, sure, I can see a slightly different mix. My wife uses her iPad 2 extensively. Would an Air 2 be better? Sure. $500 better? Not right now. It's kinda like the roof on my house. I'll replace it when needed, but it is doing the job of keeping the rain out fine. But there will be a time when it appears to not be doing that, and a specific, timely need will arise.

     

    One thing I can say is that my personal experience is that I dislike the "iOS only" mix. My MacBook Air is a much better options for me in many situations, simply because of its fixed keyboards and trackpad. And my 27" iMac display fits my eyes better for many things.  If I had to guess, I'd say Apple knows people have widely varying needs and want to offer as many profitable options as possible.

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  • Reply 58 of 153
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post



    On the latest ATP podcast John Siracusa went on a huge rant slamming all the things he thinks is wrong with iOS on iPad saying multi-window isn't that intuitive; has a limit of only 2 apps, can't drag between them. Marco Arment said Apple solves things the way a young kid would solve them and it needs to grow up take on all the responsibilities of the desktop without the crap.



    OK I understand some of the frustrations with iOS. But when Apple first launched the iPad was it really about replacing the desktop computer for "Professionals"? No. And I'm still not convinced that's where Apple should be going with iPad. I think there's always going to be a class of people where an iPad will never replace a Mac. And that's fine. If Apple starts making iOS on iPad too complex it's going scare off the the general consumer that is drawn to the device because of its simplicity and ease of use. Microsoft has tried to make the ultimate no compromise device and it didn't work. The SP 4 and SB are much more laptop than they are tablet. I'll bet most people that buy the SP4 rarely use it without they keyboard and kickstand. When I held the iPP in my hands in the Apple store it felt incredibly immersive, immersive in a way I wouldn't feel with a 13" MPB or a Microsoft Surface.



    Several other podcasts I've listened to over the weekend have asked the question who is iPP for and they're not sure Apple has answered it. I do think the first TV ad for it was not very good and I don't think it was helpful for Tim Cook to get into this whole PC vs tablet debate (use what works for you and who cares what it's called). And as I've said before I think Cook's Apple is good at giving us the 'what' and 'how' but the 'why' is sometimes missing. But maybe with iPP we don't know exactly who it's for and that's OK. Maybe it's a good thing not to pigeon hole the device and say it's only for creative professionals or a certain class of people. Maybe it's just this big blank canvas thaf will be used in many different ways and ways we're not imagining right now. I've been to Apple stores two days in a row now and the iPP section was full of people checking out the device, using the pencil and keyboard. You could tell there was a lot of interest and no store that I went to had any 128GB in stock. No Best Buy store did either. I ordered one because you get until Jan 6 to return it and it's not scheduled to arrive until Dec 3. I'm sure this is mostly a function of supply at this point but I also think demand is higher than anyone expected. Certainly higher than the expectations of the tech pundits scratching their heads wondering who this is for.

    They should rename the ATP podcast to the Anal Tech Podcast because it's turned into, for the most part, a 2-hour rant fest. When doesn't Siracusa complain? Or Marco for that matter?  A lot of these tech bloggers / podcasters that are asking who this device is for are usually looking at it from only their use case or frame of reference, as if they've lost touch with how the "masses" use computing devices.  

     

    The best post I've read that answers that question is written by Ben Bajarin of Techpinions;

     

    https://techpinions.com/a-netbook-an-ipad-pro-and-the-surface-walk-into-a-bar/42332

     

    Granted, this is behind a paywall, so I won't post the entire article out of respect for his blog, but if you do get a chance I suggest reading it. But the last sentence sums it very nicely;

     

    "The promise of something like the iPad and the iPad Pro, is to empower the masses to do MORE than they can on their smartphoneswith a computing paradigm that focuses on simplicity but still yields sophisticated results."

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  • Reply 59 of 153

    For those poster(s) that want or think that TC will released a converged OSX / iOS device, he just gave an interview today and this is what he said;

     

    http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/tim-cook-apple-wont-create-converged-macbook-and-ipad-34201986.html

     

    “We feel strongly that customers are not really looking for a converged Mac and iPad,” said Cook. “Because what that would wind up doing, or what we’re worried would happen, is that neither experience would be as good as the customer wants. So we want to make the best tablet in the world and the best Mac in the world. And putting those two together would not achieve either. You’d begin to compromise in different ways.”

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  • Reply 60 of 153
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    This isn't hard to understand, there was a massive initial need for iPads that resulted in immediate huge sales. Now that the bulk demand has been filled the sales rate will stabilize and maybe even start increasing. The reality is that they are still shipping massive numbers of iPads (far more than Macs) and this has made Apple the largest manufacture of PC type devices out there.

    Beyond that we do see Apple engaging in a common stupidity that seems unique to Apple as a company. That is letting a bleeding edge device like iPad Air languish, effectively missing an upgrade cycle. The same thing has happened with the MBP, iPod Touch and other hardware, then Apple wonders why sales suck. Personally I was waiting for an iPad Air update this go around and all I got was a bone. Frankly saving A9X for iPad Pro is an example of Apples stupidity and complete misunderstanding of what its customers expect of Apple. The demand for iPad Pro isn't going to increase because it is the only iPad with A9X in it. There is almost zero overlap in the customer base here, people wanting an updated iPad Air will not buy a Pro instead.

    In a nut shell any decease in iPad Air sales right now are due to Apple not properly updating the machine a couple of months ago. Apple is often the author of their own sales disasters. Mac Mini is another good example, this isn't a platform where people accept a step backwards as an upgrade.
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