Is Apple required to bring that money home to the US?
If Apple could get the same tax rate and benefits in the US that they get in Ireland... would Apple start keeping all their money in the US?
Does anyone wonder why so many companies set up shop in Ireland in the first place?
1. Nope
2. Yes
3. Because the Irish goverment attracted Apple to Ireland as part of a program aimed at bringing more tech jobs to the country and bolstering its economy beyond its predominantly agrarian based exports. It was a smart move and a good deal for both Ireland, this fact is often left out because it hurts the social justice warrior dramatization of the story.
Thanks.
I also read that Steve Jobs started doing business in Ireland in 1980. Seems like they've had a relationship with Ireland for quite a while!
As for the tax piece, I only have this to say: if a country taxes corporations considerably less than its people, then it's a tax heaven. Ireland does that. So does the Netherlands and other places. In the Netherlands (where I lived and worked) companies that cut deals with the government there to have a PO Box company there (literally, just a PO Box -- like Apple and Facebook do) pay less than 10% tax (usually about 7%). Meanwhile, Dutch residents pay up to 52% tax (yes, you're reading that right). No wonder Europeans are pissed off at these deals and the EU Parliament and Commission are investigating, when the Europeans, and not the corporations that generated these crises are the ones paying for bailouts and failures of their governments to regulate into place these transborder "digital age" and financial services goliaths.
And if you're defending these practices because they have to protect the interest of their shareholders and they paid the legal tax rate, then you're just a tool to them, because none of these companies care about you, they only care about your money. Period. Why people care so much and jump to defend these companies is beyond me. Probably, secretly, you think Apple loves you. They don't. You're just a dollar sign to them. Stop being a tool. Stop having feelings for these companies, you will be disappointed when you find out what you really are to them.
I also read that Steve Jobs started doing business in Ireland in 1980. Seems like they've had a relationship with Ireland for quite a while!
Yeah, to do business in Europe it really helps to have a subsidiary in Europe. The main reasons Apple (and a lot of other companies, like Microsoft and Dell) set up in Ireland were the fact that people there speak English, wages were low (and probably still are) compared to the UK, connections to the mainland are excellent, accessibility for ships is excellent and plenty of space near sea ports was available at a reasonable price.
The tax deal with the Irish government dates from a time when Apple was already well established at Cork. Ireland benefitted from the deal as well: every job at Apple is one less count of welfare. And that's not counting the indirect benefits to the local economy.
The other reason all the manufacturing is done in China is they are culturally adept at working in such conditions. Seeing football field length manufacturing lines with simple chairs, side-by-side, all the way down as far as the eye can see. I know I could never do that kind of work. That's the kind of work that kids today are never going to do.
Overall, 60 minutes was a letdown. They covered a lot of old territory and barely anything new. I wanted to see what was going on in those J. Ive labs - after all, that was the primary tease that I kept seeing all week.
I hope that Spaceship is super-duper earthquake proof...maybe they used the same stabilizing technology in the building as they did in the camera.......
After reading that 60 Minutes had done a segment on Apple I decided to sign-up for CBS "All Access" for to give the service a try and watch said episode on my Apple TV (previous model). The trouble is that CBS does not list 60 Minutes under the Shows menu option, it doesn't have a search so there is no way to get to that show! So much for "All Access".
Then I headed to the CBS site where 60 minutes is listed and tried to connect my Apple TV/iTunes subscription to a CBS account. It claimed success but when clicking on 60 Minutes it claimed I didn't have a valid CBS All Access subscription. So I tried again (same result).
So much for CBS and Apple TV integration.
The other reason all the manufacturing is done in China is they are culturally adept at working in such conditions. Seeing football field length manufacturing lines with simple chairs, side-by-side, all the way down as far as the eye can see. I know I could never do that kind of work. That's the kind of work that kids today are never going to do.
Overall, 60 minutes was a letdown. They covered a lot of old territory and barely anything new. I wanted to see what was going on in those J. Ive labs - after all, that was the primary tease that I kept seeing all week.
I hope that Spaceship is super-duper earthquake proof...maybe they used the same stabilizing technology in the building as they did in the camera.......
Blame CBS for bad promotional marketing. We were never going to see new stuff Apple is working on that nobody knows about. Plus I get the feeling the piece was heavily edited. Charlie got a tour of the new campus but only one little snippet about the curved glass made the piece. I wish they would have aired more footage from the new campus. Also I think the fact Cook was even talking about taxes and manufacturing in China was a big PR fail. Heck they even showed footage of Foxconn suicide nets. Fail.
This thread proves my point. Nearly every post so far is discussing Apple's taxes. Is that what Apple PR really wanted?
No. Apple gained nothing from this story. Certainly one occasion someone should have asked, "WWSD?"
I have no problem with Apple doing more PR pieces. But if the company is going to do it then the PR department needs to ensure they really are PR pieces. This could have been a feel good piece right before Christmas where you see parts of the company not seen before and get a tour of the new campus. I'd be really curious to know more about things they're doing with Campus 2 that haven't been done before. That would be vastly more interesting than another discussion about why Apple products can't be manufactured in the USA.
Some of you understand it. There is no way a company in their right minds would pay a foreign country's tax rates and then take a 40% penalty to bring it into the US. It would be irresponsible. This is why most companies do not bring money back. It is not just Apple, it is all intelligent companies. The whole point Tim seems to make is why not update this structure to encourage companies to bring that money back and invest? It is just silly for the government to continue this way.
I fail to see what Apple got out of this. Tim Cook had several uncomfortable squirmy body language moments, and they actually showed the Foxconn nets.
If it was a fluff piece people would have been bitching. I thought Tim Cook came across quite well. The fact that he is willing to answer uncomfortable questions is a refreshing change. He appears to be an open and forthright business leader and a good human being.
Apple is not pure as snow but when it comes to corporate responsibility they do more than most.
Overall, 60 minutes was a letdown. They covered a lot of old territory and barely anything new. I wanted to see what was going on in those J. Ive labs - after all, that was the primary tease that I kept seeing all week.
Yeah, same old same old. More of a PR for both Apple and 60 Minutes. The only revealing thing was Jony Ive's admission of possible complacency because of Apple's size and success. That they're too insular and focussed on what their own project and not being in touch with what's happening out there. (I'm paraphrasing)
It was more difficult getting Cook to admit that the Apple Watch wasn't quite there. That there's room for improvement. He's finally admitted that they have one or two future generations always on the go.
I fail to see what Apple got out of this. Tim Cook had several uncomfortable squirmy body language moments, and they actually showed the Foxconn nets.
Here is what I think: A previous poster hit the nail on the head that Apple is now Tim and Jony's Apple. We can all be sure Apple had editorial approval for where the interviews would be located, advance notice of proposed questions, and editorial approval over the final broadcast. The decision to let this air was entirely the bravado of Tim and Jony. In their way of thinking who better to make it appear Apple as a wholesome company than myself? Who truly holds the Apple ideals in their heart on this entire campus more so than me? And finally, Christmas is right around the corner, let's get the executive board to approve 60 Minutes release of a showcase piece on Apple if they promise it airs just before Christmas.
Funny you bring up body language. My wife and I find Tim Cook to be a terrible liar. In short, when he lies he smiles. Questioning about the success/failure of the Apple Watch brought a big grin and confirmed (to my wife and I anyway) the Apple Watch sales results are no where near what Tim and Jony thought they would be.
Overall, 60 minutes was a letdown. They covered a lot of old territory and barely anything new. I wanted to see what was going on in those J. Ive labs - after all, that was the primary tease that I kept seeing all week.
Yeah, same old same old. More of a PR for both Apple and 60 Minutes. The only revealing thing was Jony Ive's admission of possible complacency because of Apple's size and success. That they're too insular and focussed on what their own project and not being in touch with what's happening out there. (I'm paraphrasing)
It was more difficult getting Cook to admit that the Apple Watch wasn't quite there. That there's room for improvement. He's finally admitted that they have one or two future generations always on the go.
Why does Cook need to admit anything about Apple Watch? I'm perfectly happy with mine, use it every day. Of course future generations will be better just like iPad Pro is better than any previous iPad and the 6S is better than any previous iPhone.
I'd like to know the difference between an industrial age tax code and a digital age tax code. To me, it just sounds like Tim and Company don't like paying taxes. But, maybe others can explain his thoughts.
I don’t like paying taxes either. I use every legal means to AVOID paying as many taxes as I can. I take every deduction I can legally take. I use tax avoidance, tax deferment, tax reduction strategies whenever I can. I buy stuff on line so I don’t have to pay local sales taxes. I vote against tax increases every time they are on the ballot. My government has become irreparably corrupt and I feel no shame in trying not to pay taxes as best I can legally.
There, I said it. I’m a tax avoider just like Apple. Oh man, I’m shirking my moral obligations as a “citizen” and member of a “social community.” I’m keeping as much of my money as I can for myself and I don’t feel compelled to pay my “fair share,” whatever the hell that is.
Another point to take into consideration is that this piece is not aimed at Apple Fan(atics) but at the average iPhone and iPad user who probably knows next to nothing about Apple the company except that their new iPhone is "cool" and it comes with an Apple sticker in the box.
I fail to see what Apple got out of this. Tim Cook had several uncomfortable squirmy body language moments, and they actually showed the Foxconn nets.
Here is what I think: A previous poster hit the nail on the head that Apple is now Tim and Jony's Apple. We can all be sure Apple had editorial approval for where the interviews would be located, advance notice of proposed questions, and editorial approval over the final broadcast. The decision to let this air was entirely the bravado of Tim and Jony. In their way of thinking who better to make it appear Apple as a wholesome company than myself? Who truly holds the Apple ideals in their heart on this entire campus more so than me? And finally, Christmas is right around the corner, let's get the executive board to approve 60 Minutes release of a showcase piece on Apple if they promise it airs just before Christmas.
Funny you bring up body language. My wife and I find Tim Cook to be a terrible liar. In short, when he lies he smiles. Questioning about the success/failure of the Apple Watch brought a big grin and confirmed (to my wife and I anyway) the Apple Watch sales results are no where near what Tim and Jony thought they would be.
Here's what I think: people that don't like the watch or think it's a dud, failure, whatever can and will find any data point or anecdote to confirm their bias. So the questions about the Watch are equivalent to "when did you stop beating your wife?". Cook can reject the premise all he wants, people like you will assume he's lying. The thing is me can't really. No Apple doesn't report sales and revenue figures for the Watch but its not difficult to look at the change in the "other" category and get a feel for whether the product is selling or not. Outside of the new Apple TV there's nothing in the "other" category that's really growing. So I'm sorry but its not really possible for Tim Cook to lie about the Watch.
Considering Coo, also smiled when asked about Apple's taxes I'm assuming you think he lied about that too?
I don't know if Apple had control over the questions that were asked but if they did Apple PR should never have allowed questions on taxes or Chinese workers.
Rose even brought up the suicide nets boogeyman. And once again it was presented as an Apple only problem. You are right, the only things people will focus on are the negatives of the program. 1. Apple uses slave labor. 2. Apple is a tax evader. 3. The Watch is a failure. 4. Apple is DOOMED!™
The reviews of the program today on the tech websites will verify my take on it.
Comments
I also read that Steve Jobs started doing business in Ireland in 1980. Seems like they've had a relationship with Ireland for quite a while!
As for the tax piece, I only have this to say: if a country taxes corporations considerably less than its people, then it's a tax heaven. Ireland does that. So does the Netherlands and other places. In the Netherlands (where I lived and worked) companies that cut deals with the government there to have a PO Box company there (literally, just a PO Box -- like Apple and Facebook do) pay less than 10% tax (usually about 7%). Meanwhile, Dutch residents pay up to 52% tax (yes, you're reading that right). No wonder Europeans are pissed off at these deals and the EU Parliament and Commission are investigating, when the Europeans, and not the corporations that generated these crises are the ones paying for bailouts and failures of their governments to regulate into place these transborder "digital age" and financial services goliaths.
And if you're defending these practices because they have to protect the interest of their shareholders and they paid the legal tax rate, then you're just a tool to them, because none of these companies care about you, they only care about your money. Period. Why people care so much and jump to defend these companies is beyond me. Probably, secretly, you think Apple loves you. They don't. You're just a dollar sign to them. Stop being a tool. Stop having feelings for these companies, you will be disappointed when you find out what you really are to them.
The tax deal with the Irish government dates from a time when Apple was already well established at Cork. Ireland benefitted from the deal as well: every job at Apple is one less count of welfare. And that's not counting the indirect benefits to the local economy.
Overall, 60 minutes was a letdown. They covered a lot of old territory and barely anything new. I wanted to see what was going on in those J. Ive labs - after all, that was the primary tease that I kept seeing all week.
I hope that Spaceship is super-duper earthquake proof...maybe they used the same stabilizing technology in the building as they did in the camera.......
If it was a fluff piece people would have been bitching. I thought Tim Cook came across quite well. The fact that he is willing to answer uncomfortable questions is a refreshing change. He appears to be an open and forthright business leader and a good human being.
Apple is not pure as snow but when it comes to corporate responsibility they do more than most.
I do not see the need for such vapid interviews. I have no idea what message they're trying to convey.
The only revealing thing was Jony Ive's admission of possible complacency because of Apple's size and success.
That they're too insular and focussed on what their own project and not being in touch with what's happening out there. (I'm paraphrasing)
It was more difficult getting Cook to admit that the Apple Watch wasn't quite there. That there's room for improvement.
He's finally admitted that they have one or two future generations always on the go.
Funny you bring up body language. My wife and I find Tim Cook to be a terrible liar. In short, when he lies he smiles. Questioning about the success/failure of the Apple Watch brought a big grin and confirmed (to my wife and I anyway) the Apple Watch sales results are no where near what Tim and Jony thought they would be.
I don’t like paying taxes either. I use every legal means to AVOID paying as many taxes as I can. I take every deduction I can legally take. I use tax avoidance, tax deferment, tax reduction strategies whenever I can. I buy stuff on line so I don’t have to pay local sales taxes. I vote against tax increases every time they are on the ballot. My government has become irreparably corrupt and I feel no shame in trying not to pay taxes as best I can legally.
There, I said it. I’m a tax avoider just like Apple. Oh man, I’m shirking my moral obligations as a “citizen” and member of a “social community.” I’m keeping as much of my money as I can for myself and I don’t feel compelled to pay my “fair share,” whatever the hell that is.
People know that Apple's money is parked elsewhere serving no purpose to the USA; and Apple is not the only one doing it.
If the CEO says things like "crap", you know that the message they want to spread is not subtle' it is blunt.
Here's what I think: people that don't like the watch or think it's a dud, failure, whatever can and will find any data point or anecdote to confirm their bias. So the questions about the Watch are equivalent to "when did you stop beating your wife?". Cook can reject the premise all he wants, people like you will assume he's lying. The thing is me can't really. No Apple doesn't report sales and revenue figures for the Watch but its not difficult to look at the change in the "other" category and get a feel for whether the product is selling or not. Outside of the new Apple TV there's nothing in the "other" category that's really growing. So I'm sorry but its not really possible for Tim Cook to lie about the Watch.
Considering Coo, also smiled when asked about Apple's taxes I'm assuming you think he lied about that too?
The reviews of the program today on the tech websites will verify my take on it.