New PayFinders app for locating Apple Pay merchants reports 750% increase in users in two days

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  • Reply 21 of 34
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,243member
    rob53 said:
    The thing that bothers me the most about merchants is that in my small town, there are still many (majority?) merchants who haven't even upgraded their POS terminals to accept chipped cards. I've asked and some say the old October date was extended into next year. Doesn't surprise me they'll do whatever it takes to not put any money into their companies (this includes one of the two grocery stores in town, I haven't checked Safeway but it's not listed on Pay Finder in my town). I know changing an entire POS system can be expensive but when a simple quilt shop has already changed you know the other small stores could easily upgrade as well. I have seen a lot of the Square POS terminals showing up in town, which seems like a much less expensive solution than getting just the credit card terminal and keeping their antiquated cash register.

    I'm certainly not the only one that reads POS as Piece Of Shit, am I?

    Hardwired in my brain, but mostly fits the context.
    edited December 2015 palomine
  • Reply 22 of 34
    rcfa said:
    The thing abou ApplePay is that a merchant doesn't need to support ApplePay to support ApplePay.
    Is that all there is to it? 
    Yup. I use Apple Pay at my cleaners, and the first time I did it the owner was in shock. He had no idea he could take Apple Pay.
    SpamSandwichnolamacguylostkiwi
  • Reply 23 of 34
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    For anyone wanting to keep up with the state of Apple Pay adoption and its success so far (or lack thereof?) there is no better resource than this one IMHO:
    http://www.pymnts.com/apple-pay-adoption/
  • Reply 24 of 34
    rcfa said:
    The thing abou ApplePay is that a merchant doesn't need to support ApplePay to support ApplePay.

    Here's s what I mean by that:
    I'm currently in Europe and ApplePay isn't even introduced yet here, but NFC payments are supported in most supermarkets, many gas stations etc.
    Even though nobody know about ApplePay and I have to pretend that I'm going to pay with my physical credit card, I can then just hold my phone up to the NFC reader and pay while the cashier's eyes pop out because she sees a valid transaction but also sees that my card was never near the NFC reader (much less are any of my US cards NFC equipped).

    In other words, what matters isn't who supports "ApplePay" but simply who has an NFC enabled credit card terminal. ApplePay, to such a terminal, is simply equivalent to an NFC equipped credit card: not more, not less.

    That known, there are likely thousands upon thousands of merchants who have no clue that they can accept ApplePay, even in countries which may be years away from having ApplePay available.
    The thing about ApplePay is, that it's a thing between Apple and local card issuing banks, not a thing between Apple and merchants: for merchants it's just a matter of having an NFC enabled credit card terminal.
    This is generally -- but not always (since some retailers actively disable NFC altogether) -- true. My experience is that ApplePay works in most places where there is an NFC terminal. Where it does not, it's not a big deal to try waving the phone, and if it does not work, to whip out my actual card. 

    The larger point is, Apple appears to be doing a puzzlingly piss-poor job of marketing the possible use cases of ApplePay. (Just as it appears to be with its ability to roll out CarPlay.) I've repeatedly run into people -- including in my own family -- who have a phone with ApplePay capabilities and yet have no clue. I've gotten tired of doing Apple's job and explaining or pointing out that the security and simplicity alone is worth its use. 

    Frustrating. 
    rogifan_old
  • Reply 25 of 34

    If 2015 was the "Year of Apple Pay," perhaps Apple should make 2016 the "Year of Apple Maps being able to actually find stuff, like Apple Pay." Until then, PayFinders offers users a way to find (and share) the locations of merchants who currently accept Apple Pay.
    you sound angry bro.

    while i admit searchign for AP vendors within Maps would be cool, id never thought it lacking for not. after all -- can you do a query on PayPal, or even Discover Card, to get back merchants who accept those forms of payment? dont think so. so why rage out now?
  • Reply 26 of 34
    rcfa said:
    The thing abou ApplePay is that a merchant doesn't need to support ApplePay to support ApplePay.

    Here's s what I mean by that:
    I'm currently in Europe and ApplePay isn't even introduced yet here, but NFC payments are supported in most supermarkets, many gas stations etc.
    Even though nobody know about ApplePay and I have to pretend that I'm going to pay with my physical credit card, I can then just hold my phone up to the NFC reader and pay while the cashier's eyes pop out because she sees a valid transaction but also sees that my card was never near the NFC reader (much less are any of my US cards NFC equipped).

    In other words, what matters isn't who supports "ApplePay" but simply who has an NFC enabled credit card terminal. ApplePay, to such a terminal, is simply equivalent to an NFC equipped credit card: not more, not less.

    That known, there are likely thousands upon thousands of merchants who have no clue that they can accept ApplePay, even in countries which may be years away from having ApplePay available.
    The thing about ApplePay is, that it's a thing between Apple and local card issuing banks, not a thing between Apple and merchants: for merchants it's just a matter of having an NFC enabled credit card terminal.
    this. I just shocked the owner of my dry cleaners who said she didn't take mobile payments...until I rang it up on her NFC terminal with my iPhone. she was pleased as punch. 
    lostkiwi
  • Reply 27 of 34
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member

    If 2015 was the "Year of Apple Pay," perhaps Apple should make 2016 the "Year of Apple Maps being able to actually find stuff, like Apple Pay." Until then, PayFinders offers users a way to find (and share) the locations of merchants who currently accept Apple Pay.
    you sound angry bro.

    while i admit searchign for AP vendors within Maps would be cool, id never thought it lacking for not. after all -- can you do a query on PayPal, or even Discover Card, to get back merchants who accept those forms of payment? dont think so. so why rage out now?
    FWIW I'm fairly sure both of those have query pages where you can search for local merchants that accept them.

    EDIT: Ok, I found a Paypal page for queries on local merchants. Discover? Well kinda, sorta but not really. They have a page with retailers who accept it, then expect you to tap on one of them to take you to the stores own page where you query for a local one. Not all that helpful, so yeah you have a point as that's what Apples does for the most part. 
    edited December 2015
  • Reply 28 of 34
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,243member
    rcfa said:
    The thing abou ApplePay is that a merchant doesn't need to support ApplePay to support ApplePay.

    Here's s what I mean by that:
    I'm currently in Europe and ApplePay isn't even introduced yet here, but NFC payments are supported in most supermarkets, many gas stations etc.
    Even though nobody know about ApplePay and I have to pretend that I'm going to pay with my physical credit card, I can then just hold my phone up to the NFC reader and pay while the cashier's eyes pop out because she sees a valid transaction but also sees that my card was never near the NFC reader (much less are any of my US cards NFC equipped).

    In other words, what matters isn't who supports "ApplePay" but simply who has an NFC enabled credit card terminal. ApplePay, to such a terminal, is simply equivalent to an NFC equipped credit card: not more, not less.

    That known, there are likely thousands upon thousands of merchants who have no clue that they can accept ApplePay, even in countries which may be years away from having ApplePay available.
    The thing about ApplePay is, that it's a thing between Apple and local card issuing banks, not a thing between Apple and merchants: for merchants it's just a matter of having an NFC enabled credit card terminal.
    This is generally -- but not always (since some retailers actively disable NFC altogether) -- true. My experience is that ApplePay works in most places where there is an NFC terminal. Where it does not, it's not a big deal to try waving the phone, and if it does not work, to whip out my actual card. 

    The larger point is, Apple appears to be doing a puzzlingly piss-poor job of marketing the possible use cases of ApplePay. (Just as it appears to be with its ability to roll out CarPlay.) I've repeatedly run into people -- including in my own family -- who have a phone with ApplePay capabilities and yet have no clue. I've gotten tired of doing Apple's job and explaining or pointing out that the security and simplicity alone is worth its use. 

    Frustrating. 
    I haven't used ApplePay once. I just don't shop enough at the places that would allow it. Our culture here in the U.S. hasn't moved far in adopting pay by phone. Given time, it will. All the "Pays" are just a bit ahead of the users. 

    I buy online when I can, mostly Amazon, and one of the "Pays" would be most welcome for all those other online retailers, some of which currently use Amazon Pay or Pay Pal, neither of which I have much confidence for use with third parties.
  • Reply 29 of 34
    gatorguy said:
    you sound angry bro.

    while i admit searchign for AP vendors within Maps would be cool, id never thought it lacking for not. after all -- can you do a query on PayPal, or even Discover Card, to get back merchants who accept those forms of payment? dont think so. so why rage out now?
    FWIW I'm fairly sure both of those have query pages where you can search for local merchants that accept them.
    within Apple Maps? nope. do a search on Visa and you'll likewise not get a list of nearby merchants than if you'd searched on Apple Pay. 

    which was my point, and having nothing to do with what you've suggested. 
    edited December 2015
  • Reply 30 of 34
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    gatorguy said:
    you sound angry bro.

    while i admit searchign for AP vendors within Maps would be cool, id never thought it lacking for not. after all -- can you do a query on PayPal, or even Discover Card, to get back merchants who accept those forms of payment? dont think so. so why rage out now?
    FWIW I'm fairly sure both of those have query pages where you can search for local merchants that accept them.
    within Apple Maps? nope. do a search on Visa and you'll likewise not get a list of nearby merchants than if you'd searched on Apple Pay. 

    which was my point, and having nothing to do with what you've suggested. 
    Gotcha. I misunderstood what you were trying to point out. 
  • Reply 31 of 34
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,233member
    tmay said:
    rob53 said:
    The thing that bothers me the most about merchants is that in my small town, there are still many (majority?) merchants who haven't even upgraded their POS terminals to accept chipped cards. I've asked and some say the old October date was extended into next year. Doesn't surprise me they'll do whatever it takes to not put any money into their companies (this includes one of the two grocery stores in town, I haven't checked Safeway but it's not listed on Pay Finder in my town). I know changing an entire POS system can be expensive but when a simple quilt shop has already changed you know the other small stores could easily upgrade as well. I have seen a lot of the Square POS terminals showing up in town, which seems like a much less expensive solution than getting just the credit card terminal and keeping their antiquated cash register.

    I'm certainly not the only one that reads POS as Piece Of Shit, am I?

    Hardwired in my brain, but mostly fits the context.
    Time to reboot your brain. I know you know what a point of sale (POS) system is and knowing when to alter your brain to match the context of the article is something you just need to do. I have used POS to mean other things when the context of my comment warrants it. 
  • Reply 32 of 34
    Yeah that's the frustrating thing. There's nothing proprietary about Apple Pay yet getting merchants to adopt it seems like such a chore. And then ones that do, like Panera, don't adopt it at all their registers. So frustrating.

    The problem is, there is something proprietary about Apple Pay. When you flash your phone in front of your reader, the phone doesn't feed the reader your credit card details. It feeds it a dynamically generated token - which is nothing but a temporary card number, that is specific to that merchant, and for that transaction. So the merchant gets a card number that will never be used again - or probably recycled after several days, for some other card, some other merchant. The beauty of this solution is that it makes card fraud impossible, works with existing infrastructure, etc. However, merchants who depend on the card number to identify the customer, and do analytics on purchasing habits, etc, will not be able to use the card number!

    Most merchants who block Apple Pay, block it for this reason - because they want more information than they can get from Apple Pay!
  • Reply 33 of 34

    red oak said:
    Apple just seems lost still when it comes to data and data integration.   Why Apple Maps has no support at all for Apple Pay is beyond me 


    Yeah that to me seems like a no brainer. But I think it's safe to say there's little within Eddy Cue's org that has greatly improved over the past 3-4 years. Apple Music still has issues; Apple TV is far from polished and that App Store is kind of a mess; the iOS and Mac App stores clearly have issues (there's a reason they were moved under Phil Schiller and it was announced publicly); one could debate whether iCloud, Siri and Maps are best in class; Apple's professional software has stalled a bit (why was Microsoft Office being demoed on stage on the iPad Pro and not Apple's own productivity software); and even Apple Pay, while it works flawlessly for me every time I use it, has probably not been as successful so far as Apple had hoped. Tim Cook said 2015 would be the "year of Apple Pay" but it's hard to see where that's the case.

    I think Cue's org is still too big and full of a hodgepodge of things that don't really go together. I'd love to see Cook pair down Cue's org to content (iTunes, Apple Music, Apple TV) and Apple Pay and bring a new SVP in to run Apple's cloud business along with Siri and Maps and move the teams working on Apple's pro apps under Craig Federighi. Apple Music, Apple TV and Apple Pay all have huge potential to become big recurring revenue streams for Apple (something Wall Street is looking for). This would allow Eddy Cue to focus all of his energy on moving these platforms forward and at the same time would allow Apple's cloud business and professional software to get the attention it deserves and to really challenge Google, Amazon and Microsoft in the software space. All of this would have the added benefit of demonstrating to Wall Street that Apple is more than just iPhone, Inc. and that the stock shouldn't be valued like a traditional hardware company. And at the same time you have Jony and others focusing on Project Titan and other secret initiative so when iPhone really has peaked there's a pipeline of amazing stuff waiting in the wings to take its place.
    I could not agree more. Why hasn't Apple released iWorks on Windows? I'm thinking of completely adopting one ecosystem (Apple), instead of what I do now: using a mix of MS (Office, Onedrive) and Apple (iPhone, iPad, MacBook). But bringing all my old files to iCloud, and starting with iWorks for me is still a big step. Right now I can still work on my Apple things and still sit behind a Windows machine and work on. Would I completely step over to the Apple ecosystem it would be much harder. In my line of work it can happen that I have to work on a MS machine for a while. Coming from MS using Apple is easier then the other way around.
  • Reply 34 of 34
    Incidentally, there's a new story about AliPay (Alibaba's mobile payment platform in China, which has 400 million users) in a story at the Wall Street Journal this morning.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/want-to-see-technology-at-work-in-finance-look-at-china-1451328281

    Also, remember that Apple will be bringing Apple Pay to China early 2016 through UnionPay.

    http://www.apple.com//pr/library/2015/12/18Apple-China-UnionPay-to-Bring-Apple-Pay-to-China.html

    Then there was this announcement earlier in December:

    http://qz.com/309567/alibaba-inches-closer-to-an-apple-pay-deal-one-fingerprint-at-a-time/
    edited December 2015
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