Apple TV universal search integration expands to PBS and PBS Kids, suggests API now open

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 49
    I do wonder if Eddy or Tim actually used the new TV as a general consumer would before the device shipped. It really feels like a beta product even though Eddy's team has been working on it for years. 
  • Reply 22 of 49
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    fallenjt said:
    How the f that you expect Siri to work on your so called "local library" which is actually not? Your librabry is located remotely in your computer and that is NOT local!
    1) You really need to rethink how Siri, the Apple TV since the 2nd generation, and metadata work.

    2) I'd tell you to up LAN, but it's irrelevant, since it's clear that Siri started out being able to pull metadata from your local device, as well as your voice, to be analyzed remotely, and then the final processing of your request completed locally.
    edited January 2016 elijahg
  • Reply 23 of 49
    Searching my own Apple devices aka my computer and iTunes using Siri should be job one for Apple TV users. Apple should have no interest in "pushing" users to third party streaming apps. Also I should be able to exclude services from universal search that I don't use.
    Soli
  • Reply 24 of 49
    larryalarrya Posts: 608member
    All I care about is searching local content.  This will likely NEVER happen, because Apple doesn't want you to have it.
    I'm routinely amazed how little some of you understand about Apple and fringe cases. it's not because they don't want you to have it. it's because few people do it (techies) and it's hard to do it right. you're a fringe cases. most Apple income comes from the mainstream use cases. 
    How many years has Apple sold movies and TV shows as downloads on iTunes?  7?  8?  And now your assertion is that anyone who purchased and stored them are now a fringe case?  That's not realistic. 
    elijahgbonobob
  • Reply 25 of 49
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    larrya said:
    How many years has Apple sold movies and TV shows as downloads on iTunes?  7?  8?  And now your assertion is that anyone who purchased and stored them are now a fringe case?  That's not realistic. 
    Those aren't what he's referring to as fringe case. The info of those purchased on iTunes Store are still connected to your account, which Siri will use, if need be, when analyzing your request. He's referring to people that would have obtained their local iTunes library that's now connected to their Apple TV via Home Sharing through, say, transcoding DVD/BRD using Handbreak or iVI, and then adding it to your iTunes library. That is not something your iTunes Store account has any record of.
  • Reply 26 of 49
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    larrya said:
    I'm routinely amazed how little some of you understand about Apple and fringe cases. it's not because they don't want you to have it. it's because few people do it (techies) and it's hard to do it right. you're a fringe cases. most Apple income comes from the mainstream use cases. 
    How many years has Apple sold movies and TV shows as downloads on iTunes?  7?  8?  And now your assertion is that anyone who purchased and stored them are now a fringe case?  That's not realistic. 
    your iTunes purchases are visible in Apple TV. 

    what people here are demanding (demanding!) is siri search of all their non-iTunes content, the majority of which is likely pirated MKVs, etc (including ripped DVDs which is also not a legal use case, sorry). while a useful feature, that is not a mainstream use case. techies on forums like these are not mainstream. people like my dad who gets stuff via iTunes or Netflix are mainstream. that's the primary use case. perhaps Apple will get to the fringe cases, perhaps not. sounds to me like using a third party server like Plex is your most likely solution. 
    edited January 2016
  • Reply 27 of 49
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    your iTunes purchases are visible in Apple TV. 

    what people here are demanding (demanding!) is siri search of all their non-iTunes content, the majority of which is likely pirated MKVs, etc (including ripped DVDs which is also not a legal use case, sorry). while a useful feature, that is not a mainstream use case. techies on forums like these are not mainstream. people like my dad who gets stuff via iTunes or Netflix are mainstream. that's the primary use case. perhaps Apple will get to the fringe cases, perhaps not. sounds to me like using a third party server like Plex is your most likely solution. 
    1) I'm sure some are demanding—some probably still demand Adobe Flash on the iPhone—but myself and others simply desire that feature. In fact, I returned by unopened 4th gen Apple TV after ordering as soon as it went on sale, because that was not a feature, it would the primary feature (and because I didn't want to setup a new device with usernames and complex passwords using the Siri Remote.

    2) What we are talking about is iTunes content via Home Sharing; but it's not iTunes Store content. That is an important distinction when the discussing this feature request.

    3) I agree with you that it's not a primary desire for Apple, but you say that Home Sharing is a fringe feature. What evidence do you have that it's virtually unused by anyone but  "techies on forums"?
  • Reply 28 of 49
    takeotakeo Posts: 446member
    What Apple TV really needs is a notification centre API. It's a pain launching and closing half a dozen apps to see if you have any new shows to watch from your various queues, lists and season passes.
    edited January 2016
  • Reply 29 of 49
    takeotakeo Posts: 446member
    I guess local search would make sense for someone with a lot of home videos or someone who ripped all their DVD collection or those who steal content online. Not sure what percentage of users would fit those use cases? Hard to say.
  • Reply 30 of 49
    patsupatsu Posts: 430member
    Soli said:
    your iTunes purchases are visible in Apple TV. 

    what people here are demanding (demanding!) is siri search of all their non-iTunes content, the majority of which is likely pirated MKVs, etc (including ripped DVDs which is also not a legal use case, sorry). while a useful feature, that is not a mainstream use case. techies on forums like these are not mainstream. people like my dad who gets stuff via iTunes or Netflix are mainstream. that's the primary use case. perhaps Apple will get to the fringe cases, perhaps not. sounds to me like using a third party server like Plex is your most likely solution. 
    1) I'm sure some are demanding—some probably still demand Adobe Flash on the iPhone—but myself and others simply desire that feature. In fact, I returned by unopened 4th gen Apple TV after ordering as soon as it went on sale, because that was not a feature, it would the primary feature (and because I didn't want to setup a new device with usernames and complex passwords using the Siri Remote.

    2) What we are talking about is iTunes content via Home Sharing; but it's not iTunes Store content. That is an important distinction when the discussing this feature request.

    3) I agree with you that it's not a primary desire for Apple, but you say that Home Sharing is a fringe feature. What evidence do you have that it's virtually unused by anyone but  "techies on forums"?

    Local library search is better done by third parties because the media can be of dubious quality and origin. Based on Tim's universal search comment, we will have the feature once third parties jump in. This should also enable cloud search. No big deal.

    You can probably gauge the popularity of the feature by looking at the sales and installation of the media servers. 


    What I am more interested in is HomeKit, Continuity, and other iOS integration.
    edited January 2016
  • Reply 31 of 49
    patsupatsu Posts: 430member
    takeo said:
    What Apple TV really needs is a notification centre API. It's a pain launching and closing half a dozen apps to see if you have any new shows to watch from your various queues, lists and season passes.
    Yeah, some sort of program guide that can organize the new shows.

    But I think the universal search can do it too since it can look into all participating content sources. 

    "Show me all the new shows today"

    ... Including all sorts of filters. Should be more convenient than hopping and swiping all over the screen to hunt down your show.

    It already works for existing Siri Universal Search sources.
    edited January 2016
  • Reply 32 of 49
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    All I care about is searching local content.  This will likely NEVER happen, because Apple doesn't want you to have it.
    I'm routinely amazed how little some of you understand about Apple and fringe cases. it's not because they don't want you to have it. it's because few people do it (techies) and it's hard to do it right. you're a fringe cases. most Apple income comes from the mainstream use cases. 

    Could not agree more. “All I care about is searching local content” but no clue if this is possible, how hard it would be to implement, what compromises would have to be dealt with. That’s the trouble with those who “think” they are techies. “I want this...!” and it should magically happen just because. I giggle at those commenters who start their rants with, “It would be a simple matter for Apple to... (insert desired feature or function).” Right here in this thread we have pontificating about metadata this and API that. Babbling nonsense from anonymous posters who only think they understand hardware and software engineering. I place my trust in Apple’s engineers more than some egomaniac telling me what a genius they are while hidden behind Harry Potter’s invisibility cloak. 
    nolamacguy
  • Reply 33 of 49
    patsupatsu Posts: 430member
    lkrupp said:
    I'm routinely amazed how little some of you understand about Apple and fringe cases. it's not because they don't want you to have it. it's because few people do it (techies) and it's hard to do it right. you're a fringe cases. most Apple income comes from the mainstream use cases. 

    Could not agree more. “All I care about is searching local content” but no clue if this is possible, how hard it would be to implement, what compromises would have to be dealt with. That’s the trouble with those who “think” they are techies. “I want this...!” and it should magically happen just because. I giggle at those commenters who start their rants with, “It would be a simple matter for Apple to... (insert desired feature or function).” Right here in this thread we have pontificating about metadata this and API that. Babbling nonsense from anonymous posters who only think they understand hardware and software engineering. I place my trust in Apple’s engineers more than some egomaniac telling me what a genius they are while hidden behind Harry Potter’s invisibility cloak. 
    That's what I meant by 'of dubious quality and origin'. There can be so many outdated, wrongly implemented, insufficiently coded metadata, or even media data;
    especially when the library has been built up over many years from the net. Or ripped using very old software.

    With the open search API, let the third parties and open source software that created the situation support their media and users.

    Apple can focus on their own. 

    All these posters are just agreeing 'violently' with the current approach, but the timeline differs. It probably takes time for third parties to implement their changes, and for Apple to implement the hooks in a secure manner.

    If we were to believe the net, they are also in the process of localizing Siri to understand and pronounce the metadata more accurately. Folks in different countries pronounce the same movie title and talent name differently.
    edited January 2016 williamlondonnolamacguy
  • Reply 34 of 49
    Still waiting for chapter support on ATV4. My chapters work fine on ATV2 and ATV3 but not ATV4. I have nearly 100 concert films and direct access to specific songs is an important function for me that is missing. Clicking down only allows scrubbing via swiping left or right, not advancing to chapter points despite what Apple's help says.
    nolamacguy
  • Reply 35 of 49
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    patsu said:

    Local library search is better done by third parties because the media can be of dubious quality and origin. Based on Tim's universal search comment, we will have the feature once third parties jump in. This should also enable cloud search. No big deal.

    You can probably gauge the popularity of the feature by looking at the sales and installation of the media servers. 


    What I am more interested in is HomeKit, Continuity, and other iOS integration.
    1) How is that any different than getting Siri to work with my local Music library since 2011?

    2) What does the quality and origin of the media have to do with Siri being able to analyze metadata of written text in a specialized field, like movie title or episode? Apple could allow for their local analysis to let the speaker search for HD v SD, as that is in both the metadata (and even the filename on the drive), but I don't see the media quality as being a concern when they don't even have access to said media.

    3) A 3rd-party will do exactly what Apple would do—and has been doing with the aforementioned local music library—by using a file of the metadata with Siri API which still all gets analyses by Apple's Siri servers.
    edited January 2016
  • Reply 36 of 49
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member

    lkrupp said:

    Could not agree more. “All I care about is searching local content” but no clue if this is possible, how hard it would be to implement, what compromises would have to be dealt with. That’s the trouble with those who “think” they are techies. “I want this...!” and it should magically happen just because. I giggle at those commenters who start their rants with, “It would be a simple matter for Apple to... (insert desired feature or function).” Right here in this thread we have pontificating about metadata this and API that. Babbling nonsense from anonymous posters who only think they understand hardware and software engineering. I place my trust in Apple’s engineers more than some egomaniac telling me what a genius they are while hidden behind Harry Potter’s invisibility cloak. 
    Again, obviously this is possible as Apple's been using it for over half a decade.

    edit: Correction. Nearly half a decade, since Siri wasn't released to users as a feature of iOS until 2011, not 2010
    edited January 2016
  • Reply 37 of 49
    patsupatsu Posts: 430member
    Soli said:
    patsu said:

    Local library search is better done by third parties because the media can be of dubious quality and origin. Based on Tim's universal search comment, we will have the feature once third parties jump in. This should also enable cloud search. No big deal.

    You can probably gauge the popularity of the feature by looking at the sales and installation of the media servers. 


    What I am more interested in is HomeKit, Continuity, and other iOS integration.
    1) How is that any different than getting Siri to work with my local Music library since 2011?

    2) What does the quality and origin of the media have to do with Siri being able to analyze metadata of written text in a specialized field, like movie title or episode? Apple could allow for their local analysis to let the speaker search for HD v SD, as that is in both the metadata (and even the filename on the drive), but I don't see the media quality as being a concern when they don't even have access to said media.

    3) A 3rd-party will do exactly what Apple would do—and has been doing with the aforementioned local music library—by using a file of the metadata with Siri API which still all gets analyses by Apple's Siri servers.
    I have already answered the 3rd party search questions above. Don't assume your local videos have pristine data. Your file names are also unreliable in the general case. It's typically a last resort. My sense is we will probably have to wait for 3rd party implementations and complain to them instead when they make the wrong assumptions.

    The developers will have ample opportunities to support their users here.

    Siri servers only deal with voice recognition and may be in the future context-aware conversation. The search is actually performed by specialized servers. That has been how it works since day one. Since 2011, Siri has propagated to many more countries and accents. Apple is said to be working on localizing media title and talent names for Siri as we speak. Accuracy has also improved dramatically. Plus gained 'Hey Siri' support. Now it has some contextual support with the use of 'this', and more in depth integration with the search engines and applications (e.g., Apple Music). 

    General local media search is simply one of these search engine 'plug-ins'.
    edited January 2016 nolamacguy
  • Reply 38 of 49
    friedmudfriedmud Posts: 165member
    Soli said:
    friedmud said:
    Netflix searching works just fine for me.  For instance, if I say "I want to Watch The Walking Dead" it comes up and shows me it's available on Netflix and iTunes and will take me right to either one.
    But only for items which you've purchased on the iTunes Store or that are available via Neflix; not your personal library. For example, you can't say, "Play 'Scarlett's first piano recital'" and have her play that named file from your local iTunes library on a Mac or WinPC via the Home Sharing connection 
    I was specifically replying about searching Netflix with Siri... that works.  Never said anything about the rest of it (I honestly don't know because I don't have a "local library" at all).
  • Reply 39 of 49
    friedmud said:
    Apple is de-emphasising the local library in favour of the cloud.  I would expect they will never allow local searching because all their efforts are about driving folks to the cloud.  

    On another note ... the article says that the search for Netflix works, but it's never worked for me.  My search finds absolutely nothing except what Apple has in the cloud.  It directs me to the iTunes store every single time even if the movie is in Netflix or on my local iTunes or both.  

    Is this another one of those (many) features that works for the folks in California, so it's considered to be "done" already?  Has this worked for anyone?   
    Netflix searching works just fine for me.  For instance, if I say "I want to Watch The Walking Dead" it comes up and shows me it's available on Netflix and iTunes and will take me right to either one.
    NetFlix works almost perfectly for me.  I say things link:  "Show me comedies on NetFlix"  then, I say, "Only the good ones."
    Almost flawless.  My 5 year old grandson can also use it.
  • Reply 40 of 49
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    Soli said:
    your iTunes purchases are visible in Apple TV. 

    what people here are demanding (demanding!) is siri search of all their non-iTunes content, the majority of which is likely pirated MKVs, etc (including ripped DVDs which is also not a legal use case, sorry). while a useful feature, that is not a mainstream use case. techies on forums like these are not mainstream. people like my dad who gets stuff via iTunes or Netflix are mainstream. that's the primary use case. perhaps Apple will get to the fringe cases, perhaps not. sounds to me like using a third party server like Plex is your most likely solution. 
    1) I'm sure some are demanding—some probably still demand Adobe Flash on the iPhone—but myself and others simply desire that feature. In fact, I returned by unopened 4th gen Apple TV after ordering as soon as it went on sale, because that was not a feature, it would the primary feature (and because I didn't want to setup a new device with usernames and complex passwords using the Siri Remote.

    2) What we are talking about is iTunes content via Home Sharing; but it's not iTunes Store content. That is an important distinction when the discussing this feature request.

    3) I agree with you that it's not a primary desire for Apple, but you say that Home Sharing is a fringe feature. What evidence do you have that it's virtually unused by anyone but  "techies on forums"?
    the fact that normal people have no idea what Home Sharing even is. 

    my brother uses it to dump all his encoded torrents into via an automated job. case closed. 
    edited January 2016
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