Apple may have a lot of banks signed up, but they need to do a better job getting retailers and restaurants to sign up.
Many retailers upgraded their terminals just recently to read chip cards but for some reason most did not opt for NFC capable devices. Probably a cost savings. Anyway, they are not likely to upgrade again for quite awhile. Verifone makes a nice portable terminal, VX 690, that supports Apple Pay and would be ideal for restaurants.
On a side note: has anyone ever used Apple Pay at a restaurant?
I can't imagine giving the waiter my iPhone to scan at the register. Do they bring the terminal to you?
In Europe and Canada I've seen many times they bring the new handheld terminal to you so the card doesn't leave the owners hand. Esp with the chip card readers
I dislike Samsung's practices as much as the next guy, but that simply isn't true.
The ORIGINAL implementation for LoopPay allowed cards to be used with any terminal WITHOUT the bank having to change their backend software. In this case the card number was literally broadcast over the air where anyone could see it. This also caused Chip/PIN terminals to give you the "Please insert your Chip card" message, as if you tried to swipe your card (Chip cards can't be swiped in terminals that accept Chips). LoopPay was also updating their system to allow Chip/PIN cards to work with MST by having banks update their software to support it.
Samsung decided to not use this feature (allow any cards to work) and went with the same tokenization system Apple Pay uses. This immediately prevented the use of the majority of cards as now the banks have to update their software to work with Samsung Pay (just like they do with Apple Pay).
Where Samsung is being deceitful is claiming their system works at almost ANY terminal. While this is true, if your bank isn't signed on then your card won't work. In short, Samsung is only telling you HALF the story. IF your bank is signed up THEN Samsung Pay will work on almost any terminal.
Last time I checked Samsung had 30 something banks signed on. Apple Pay is well over 900 (closer to 1,000). Samsung rollout of banks is going slow, and it's a race between how fast they can sign up banks and how fast merchants start updating their terminals. At some point in the future, Samsung Pay will no longer have any advantage because magstripe terminals will disappear. So it's going to be tough for Samsung to convince banks to update their software for a system that's being phased out. Meanwhile, Apple Pay is trying to get banks to update their systems for the newest technology (NFC terminals).
Pretty easy to see who will come out on top in this race.
Are you sure this is accurate? I work for First Data and we handle the tokenization and encryption for Apple Pay, Samsung Pay and Google Pay. As far as i know the tokenization/encryption is only on Samsung Pay purchases using NFC. Any purchases using MST (magnetic secure transmission) are done exactly like physically credit cards meaning all your information is sent over exactly as it is on the card (no token # instead of read CC #, etc).
I don't see how MST could simply send over your card data as-is. If that were the case, then Chip/PIN cards wouldn't work with MST as the terminal will just think you swiped a card, and it will ask you to insert your card instead. Samsung Pay users have been posting that their Chip/PIN cards work on older terminals (if their bank has signed up).
Unless Samsung has had banks update TWO separate items (tokenization for NFC and some other as-yet unknown update to allow MST transmission of Chip/PIN cards without them getting rejected).
Regardless, in the best case scenario (MST is just as secure), Samsung is still fighting a losing battle. Their MST is only a short-term solution that only makes sense in a single market (the US).
MST would have been a fantastic idea if it came out 5 years ago.
And unless Katz's has recently reorganized their layout, the register station in the ad isn't real. The real cash register is right by the door on the opposite wall. It was probably too cramped to shoot the ad there.
Samsung is just playing on people’s ignorance. For many convenience trumps security every time. I’m always amazed by the number of people I know who walk around with their phones unlocked with no PIN code or even TouchID. It’s too inconvenient to unlock their phones when they want to use them. I also amazed by attitudes that assume the bank or the credit card company will have to deal with fraud so security is not really necessary anyway.
So yes, Samsung does have something to crow about here. You can use Samsung Pay wherever credit cards are accepted with the same security risks as your physical card.
Well, since so few banks use their system, they are basically talking crap. More terminals can use it, but hey make sure you bank can too.... Doesn't sound so good.
Samsung has a valid ad. I live in a 1MM plus metropolitan area and almost no merchants take Apple Pay. The only one of the stores I routinely shop at that uses AP is Rite-Aid. There is a limit to how many times you can go to a drugstore to use Apple Pay.
There are no McDonalds in your town... Seems unlikely. With the mandate to switch to chip/pin in the last few months, the number of Apple pay compatible terminals have exploded,
Are you sure this is accurate? I work for First Data and we handle the tokenization and encryption for Apple Pay, Samsung Pay and Google Pay. As far as i know the tokenization/encryption is only on Samsung Pay purchases using NFC. Any purchases using MST (magnetic secure transmission) are done exactly like physically credit cards meaning all your information is sent over exactly as it is on the card (no token # instead of read CC #, etc).
As far as you know? You are truly a First Data employee working in the relevant area?
A five minute search on Google using the terms Apple Pay, tokenisation and First Data led me to this First Data Presentation about Apple Pay:
On a side note: has anyone ever used Apple Pay at a restaurant?
I can't imagine giving the waiter my iPhone to scan at the register. Do they bring the terminal to you?
Non-issue unless you're in USA.
Virtually everywhere, EXCEPT in the US, the terminal is brought to you because customers don't like their Credit Cards leaving their sight. This practice has continued with NFC payments as well.
I use Apple Pay at McD's drive through, never had my phone over, they put the terminal out the window. It has a handle for employee's to hold out the Window. Most of the new Terminals are Wireless anyways.
On a side note: has anyone ever used Apple Pay at a restaurant?
I can't imagine giving the waiter my iPhone to scan at the register. Do they bring the terminal to you?
Non-issue
1) Apple Pay requires the customer's interaction (Touch ID). You literally cannot just give your phone over to pay unless you give them your passcode.. which isn't happening ..
2) Virtually everywhere, EXCEPT in the US, the terminal is brought to you because customers don't like their Credit Cards leaving their sight. This practice has continued with NFC payments as well.
I use Apple Pay at McD's drive through, never hand my phone over, they put the terminal out the window. It has a handle for employee's to hold out the Window. Most of the new Terminals are Wireless anyways.
Samsung Pay: We are accepted at stores that have credit card terminals that are unsafe and easily open to fraud.
besides the point I've read many articles that said loop pay is extremely unreliable. To the point its not even worth using.
That claim is simply not true... Samung pay makes paying at EMV/NFC enabled and non-EMV/NFC terminals more secure because ALL Samsung Pay transactions are tokenized. Samsung Pay uses tokenization and bio-metrics, and is isolated from the OS just like Apple Pay. I've used it at countless places and it works nearly everywhere, and works well. The exceptions have been at gas pumps and ATMs. Gas pumps in particular do not work with Samsung Pay because they perform a pre-authorization for a fixed amount and then a subsequent authorization for the final amount, which tokenized payments do not allow.
As for Loop Pay, it doesn't use tokenization and doesn't work with EMV enabled terminals as of yet. That means LoopPay is as secure as a plain old swipe, but it functions very well as long as you aren't trying to use LoopPay at an EMV enabled terminal. I used LoopPay for several months year before last and it pretty much worked everywhere I ever tried it, including gas pumps.
On a side note: has anyone ever used Apple Pay at a restaurant?
I can't imagine giving the waiter my iPhone to scan at the register. Do they bring the terminal to you?
Non-issue unless you're in USA.
Virtually everywhere, EXCEPT in the US, the terminal is brought to you because customers don't like their Credit Cards leaving their sight. This practice has continued with NFC payments as well.
I use Apple Pay at McD's drive through, never hand my phone over, they put the terminal out the window. It has a handle for employee's to hold out the Window. Most of the new Terminals are Wireless anyways.
US restaurants are going to be one of the very last holdouts for Pay because of the ritual, and because of the cost to outfit a restaurant with multiple mobile card readers. Moreover, does Pay have a provision to leave tips yet? That will be a big stumbling block for US restaurants as well.
US restaurants are going to be one of the very last holdouts for Pay because of the ritual, and because of the cost to outfit a restaurant with multiple mobile card readers. Moreover, does Pay have a provision to leave tips yet? That will be a big stumbling block for US restaurants as well.
In resort areas I have seen an increase in gratuity included in the bill. Doing so would save a lot complexity for everyone. Using Apple Pay with the tip already included would be much faster too. Right now they have to make two transactions in a restaurant. First to hold the funds and then when you write in the tip amount, they have to run the final transaction. Any restaurant that needs multiple portable terminals should definitely be able to afford it. One would probably suffice for most places since that is how many they have been using.
I've used Pay at restaurants that are part of the Open Table reservation system. It allows you to pay for your meal through the Open Table app using Pay.
The presentation itself declares how "Apple Pay will leverage the global tokenisation standard"
It then goes into great technical detail about how both tokenisation and Apple Pay work.
So why, as an employee, are you not aware of this? Thank you for your candour.
My comment was not about Apple Pay but about tokenization being used for Samsung NFC payments and not Samsung MST payments. That was my understanding. And while I do work for First Data I am not associated with the department that provides these services. Although, as a whole, we were all shown a presentation on it because First Data was very excited to be associated with these companies and wanted to make all employees aware.
Obviously we all know Apple Pay uses tokenization and encryption, that's basically the #1 reason to use it! For the added security.
In Canada they bring the terminal to you, about 99% of the time in my experience.
I live in California and Apple Pay is still very limited. Most of the restaurants I often go to don't accept Apple Pay, and restaurants in the U.S. never brings to terminal to the customer.
Really? Where in California?
I I live in Los Angeles.. Here's where I use Apple Pay so far and for what items..
1) Whole Foods Market 2) Chevron Texaco 3) Subway 4) McDonalds 5) Petco 6) Trader Joes 7) Rite Aid 8) Walgreens 9) Best Buy 10) Open Table App - allows use at MANY restaurants 11) Target App 12) Gelsons Markets 13) Disneyland and Disney California Adventure Park, rolling out now 14) Five Guys Burgers 15) El Pollo Loco 16) Macys 17) Jamba Juice 18) Johnny Rockets 19) Homegoods, TJMax 20) Forever 21 21) Microsoft Store -
I'm sure the retailer would completely understand, that since it bypasses the Chip & Pin, using the magnetic strip information, that he is responsible for ANY fraudulent transactions!
My comment was not about Apple Pay but about tokenization being used for Samsung NFC payments and not Samsung MST payments. That was my understanding. And while I do work for First Data I am not associated with the department that provides these services. Although, as a whole, we were all shown a presentation on it because First Data was very excited to be associated with these companies and wanted to make all employees aware.
Obviously we all know Apple Pay uses tokenization and encryption, that's basically the #1 reason to use it! For the added security.
Thank you. I re-read your initial statement and realised the ambiguity, I had read it as only Samsung Pay offered the tokenisation rather than as you had meant, that tokenisation can only be used with the NFC aspect of Samsung Pay but not with the MST aspect.
Thank you and your company for implementing a good service!
I use Apple Pay frequently in the UK; looking forward to using it when I'm next in North America.
Comments
www.youtube.com/embed/czcb5dXjlZA
I don't see how MST could simply send over your card data as-is. If that were the case, then Chip/PIN cards wouldn't work with MST as the terminal will just think you swiped a card, and it will ask you to insert your card instead. Samsung Pay users have been posting that their Chip/PIN cards work on older terminals (if their bank has signed up).
Unless Samsung has had banks update TWO separate items (tokenization for NFC and some other as-yet unknown update to allow MST transmission of Chip/PIN cards without them getting rejected).
Regardless, in the best case scenario (MST is just as secure), Samsung is still fighting a losing battle. Their MST is only a short-term solution that only makes sense in a single market (the US).
MST would have been a fantastic idea if it came out 5 years ago.
With the mandate to switch to chip/pin in the last few months, the number of Apple pay compatible terminals have exploded,
You are truly a First Data employee working in the relevant area?
A five minute search on Google using the terms Apple Pay, tokenisation and First Data led me to this First Data Presentation about Apple Pay:
https://www.firstdata.com/downloads/marketing-fs/First-Data-Integrated-Tokenization-Services-Webinar.pdf
The presentation itself declares how "Apple Pay will leverage the global tokenisation standard"
It then goes into great technical detail about how both tokenisation and Apple Pay work.
So why, as an employee, are you not aware of this?
Thank you for your candour.
2) Virtually everywhere, EXCEPT in the US, the terminal is brought to you because customers don't like their Credit Cards leaving their sight. This practice has continued with NFC payments as well.
I use Apple Pay at McD's drive through, never hand my phone over, they put the terminal out the window. It has a handle for employee's to hold out the Window. Most of the new Terminals are Wireless anyways.
As for Loop Pay, it doesn't use tokenization and doesn't work with EMV enabled terminals as of yet. That means LoopPay is as secure as a plain old swipe, but it functions very well as long as you aren't trying to use LoopPay at an EMV enabled terminal. I used LoopPay for several months year before last and it pretty much worked everywhere I ever tried it, including gas pumps.
Obviously we all know Apple Pay uses tokenization and encryption, that's basically the #1 reason to use it! For the added security.
I I live in Los Angeles.. Here's where I use Apple Pay so far and for what items..
1) Whole Foods Market
2) Chevron Texaco
3) Subway
4) McDonalds
5) Petco
6) Trader Joes
7) Rite Aid
8) Walgreens
9) Best Buy
10) Open Table App - allows use at MANY restaurants
11) Target App
12) Gelsons Markets
13) Disneyland and Disney California Adventure Park, rolling out now
14) Five Guys Burgers
15) El Pollo Loco
16) Macys
17) Jamba Juice
18) Johnny Rockets
19) Homegoods, TJMax
20) Forever 21
21) Microsoft Store -
Thank you. I re-read your initial statement and realised the ambiguity, I had read it as only Samsung Pay offered the tokenisation rather than as you had meant, that tokenisation can only be used with the NFC aspect of Samsung Pay but not with the MST aspect.
Thank you and your company for implementing a good service!
I use Apple Pay frequently in the UK; looking forward to using it when I'm next in North America.
Why the fuck are some things in the US so backwards?
Here in Canada, 99% of terminals are chip and pin or wireless, and 99% of the time they bring it to you.