Obama administration, FBI must act to restore US government's credibility in Apple's encryption deb

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  • Reply 81 of 126
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,678member
    apple ][ said:
    tmay said:
    I get that people supporting Trump are literally unable to comprehend foreign policy; I'm pretty sure that if Trump gets elected, he won't be in a position to do the crazy shit that he is spouting.
    I understand it very well, and Iran is just as much of an enemy as ISIS is. I don't make distinctions between various shades and stripes of terrorists in that region. They're all bad and they're all enemies and I support destroying them all.
    Ironic that you support the one candidate that uses extreme fear in the people the most to intimidate people, especially for political reasons… which is an actual definition of terrorism, not the one you've concocted in your head that only refers to people you believe are only Muslim, only from the Middle East, and only disgustingly refer to as sand-<noun>s… but you're no racist¡ 
    punkndrublicbrakken
  • Reply 82 of 126
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,545member
    apple ][ said:
    tmay said:
    I get that people supporting Trump are literally unable to comprehend foreign policy; I'm pretty sure that if Trump gets elected, he won't be in a position to do the crazy shit that he is spouting.
    I understand it very well, and Iran is just as much of an enemy as ISIS is. I don't make distinctions between various shades and stripes of terrorists in that region. They're all bad and they're all enemies and I support destroying them all.
    Fire meet fuel.
    brakken
  • Reply 83 of 126
    Actions by the leadership of the Federal Bureau of Investigation over the past month related to the San Bernardino encryption issue demonstrate a shocking level of dishonest and callous disregard for the nation's core principles of democracy. FBI director James B. Comey should issue a formal apology or resign his post, AppleInsider's Daniel Eran Dilger argues.

    That alone is reason enough for Comey to immediately dial down the FBI's rhetoric and withdraw the demands for a back door from Apple, made without the consultation of Congress having the opportunity to fully debate the issues involved without the fervent, rushed emotionalism this public smear campaign is attempting to leverage.
    Free speech and freedom of assembly do not apply to plots to commit mass murder. The public has a legitimate right to reconstruct all the activities of the terrorist couple that led up to the atrocity. Furthermore, the phone itself belongs to San Bernardino County, meaning its taxpayers. Finally, please keep in mind that the argument you are trying to assert would have protected Richard Nixon, if it were a valid one. It didn't, because it wasn't. Daniel Ellsberg could not have published the Pentagon Papers if the public did not have a right to know. You are on a slippery slope, Apple, no matter how enamored you might be of your position and your privacy. Again, just as Richard Nixon was, this particular terrorist was a public employee, so shielding his phone from scrutiny would be the equivalent of shielding Richard Nixon from being scrutinized for his workplace behavior...
    edited February 2016
  • Reply 84 of 126
    As grand poobar of the shady politician/pedophile/stalker/la cosa nostra/terrorist/people who want to get away with something/paranoid society I thank you Mr Cook for fighting for us. Transparency is only for the sane. In regards to decryption being bad for america....oh brother ....seems to me we did fine without it for millenia. Get real!



  • Reply 85 of 126
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,428member
    Soli said:
    apple ][ said:
    I understand it very well, and Iran is just as much of an enemy as ISIS is. I don't make distinctions between various shades and stripes of terrorists in that region. They're all bad and they're all enemies and I support destroying them all.
    Ironic that you support the one candidate that uses extreme fear in the people the most to intimidate people, especially for political reasons… which is an actual definition of terrorism, not the one you've concocted in your head that only refers to people you believe are only Muslim, only from the Middle East, and only disgustingly refer to as sand-<noun>s… but you're no racist¡ 
    The race card is played out, tired and is no longer valid.

    You're the one mentioning sand-nouns, not me. Also, religion does not equal race.
    ewtheckman
  • Reply 86 of 126
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,428member
    tmay said:
    Fire meet fuel.
    I don't disagree. I support that strategy, and I think that it's wise to add fuel to the fire, so that we may quicker expose the enemy.
    edited February 2016
  • Reply 87 of 126
    The bigger question is... can the government be trusted not to abuse it?  Ha! I bet all the apple haters have pin locks on their phones for a reason as well. If you've got nothing to fear then you need no pin lock yea?
  • Reply 88 of 126
    sog35 said:
    If you have it developed on one computer and it never leaves that one computer, I don't see the problem it having it. I agree that that we shouldn't being giving up our freedoms in exchange for security but as long as Apple doesn't force a new iOS version to all iOS users, I don't see how my freedom is infringed upon. I'm more worried about the Government digging their hands further in to my pocket with taxes than I am them wanting to get in to my iPhone.
    You are living in dreamland then.

    You write the software you can write it again. All the Apple employees who work on the FBI requested software would have to be killed. That literally is the only way to guarantee that software does not leak.  That software would be worth literally tens of billions of dollars. You don't think a terrorist organization or criminal organization would not kidnap the engineer who worked on it and try to make it again?  

    Once the toothpaste is out of the tube its out for good.  Once Apple gives in you can't contain it.

    Besides there are over 120 other federal cases that have filed a similar request. Apple will need to comply with those cases also if the FBI gets its wish. When all is said and done there will be thousands of requests and thousands of times this dangerous code would need to be run. Do you seriously think they can contain the code from leaking? Even if there is only a 1% chance the code gets out its not worth it.  There are other ways to catch bad guys that don't involve sacrificing our liberty.

    with that logic, what's currently stopping an Apple developer from developing the crack on their own, like you said it's worth tens of billions of dollars. There are developers within Apple that have access to the encryption code so what's stopping them from creating the back door at home and becoming filthy rich?

    You're talking about how dangerous this crack would be if terrorists got their hands on it but at the same time you have no problem protecting their right for their data to remain private and plan out attacks communicating over iPhones and iPads because even if they are killed all possible intelligence that could be recovered is safely protected by Apple. 

    And no, I don't believe terrorists or mobsters would kidnap anyone because if it was that simple to kidnap someone for that purpose, what's stopping them from doing it now? You're watching too many action flicks...
  • Reply 89 of 126
    Nice try, Apple Insider. But no cigar...or whatever it is folks like you smoke. Now it's time to come clean and help your Uncle Sam close this case on those mass murderers. Or maybe you're on their side. Maybe you think mass murder is cool, hmmmmm?
    But Johan, what the heck are YOU smoking ??  The case on these two is closed. They're dead. Seriously deceased. Game over, man!

    The FBI and local police have already established that they didn't have helpers, weren't part of a larger cell and weren't involved with or directed by any foreign terrorist organization. They had sympathies with some, but weren't "part of" those organizations.

    So, just what do you want in order to "close this case" ?? 

    Saying that you just want the FBI to have the contents of their phone is "cool" but totally beside the point.
    (1) it is not and never was "their phone". It is a phone from the employer (the county health dept)
    (2) they had their own, personal phones, and these were thoroughly destroyed
    (3) do you really think that he would have put serious, incriminating stuff on his WORK PHONE?? Seriously, do you?? When he had his own, private phone?

    So, Johan, try for a second post and do better this time. Think about the scenario and do some research first. This community is forgiving but tolerance does have its bounds. You're pushing them already.
    brakken
  • Reply 90 of 126

    vbmalone said:

    I always feel the people that are so concerned about the government seeing our personal data must have something to hide.  When are people going to realize that using any type of electronic device or the internet to document your lives and personal data are no longer a secret.  If you don't want anyone to see it don't put it on your phone, computer or the cloud.  Use a good old fashion notebook that would need a search warrant.

    The point that you miss is that the Fourth Amendment says that our private stuff is private. Look seriously at your first sentence ...
    "I always feel the people that are so concerned about the government seeing our personal data must have something to hide"
    This is 
    bass-awkward. The government does not have an automatic right to see everything we do. It has to have a reason, and then a warrant.

    The issue with people documenting their lives with FaceBook etc is entirely different. They are choosing to eviscerate their privacy, unwisely in my estimation. There is no compulsion that they do so. But I regard my personally-protected electronic devices as part of my house. A number of Courts, although not all, agree with that position. If you want to see it, get a warrant. 
    brakken
  • Reply 91 of 126
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,476member
    This guy would like to tap into your brain and get that dark data as well if they could. At this time the police and government feel they anything no in your head is fair game for them to use against you. They do not like the fact this kind of information could be off limits to them. As I told my kid and I follow the same rule, never ever put anything in writing in any form which you would never want someone else seeing.
  • Reply 92 of 126

    Apple has the social responsibility to cooperate with the government on the safety of its citizenry. Surely they have the expertise to unlock one phone without creating a backdoor software, which can then be destroyed after its specific use for one phone. If one more death occurs from this one unlocked phone, Apple would have blood on their hands.

    Mag, you are quite right "Apple has the social responsibility to cooperate with the government on the safety of its citizenry". And that is what it has done. It is choosing to protect the many against the few.

    "Surely they have the expertise to unlock one phone without creating a backdoor software, which can then be destroyed after its specific use for one phone"
    That is a nice theory but perhaps you haven't noticed that the FBI has 9 (or 12) other cases 
    pending. It's not "just this one" no matter how much Director Comey says it is. And the New York DA says that he has 175 cases. 

    "If one more death occurs from this one unlocked phone, Apple would have blood on their hands."
    I guess you aren't thinking at all about the people who are protected by the unavailability of their private information to the governments of China, Russia, Saudi Arabia and others. So, to point the question back to you for your consideration - how many deaths of dissidents in these countries will it take for you to accept that the blood is on your hands? If one more death occurs from Apple having to hack this one phone, then the blood is on your hands.

    Chew that over before you post again.
    pscooter63ewtheckmanjony0
  • Reply 93 of 126
    hubeee said:
    The Gestapo is alive and well in DC.  These folks obviously can't read the 1st or 4th amendment to US Constitution ratified in 1789, so they are trying to sway public opinion with threats, and promises to protect us from terrorists. But most know and understand, the real threat is for our own completely out of control Federal, state, and local Gestapo.
    hubeee: I agree that the FBI is in overreach but there are laws against sedition. Be more careful about what you post.
  • Reply 94 of 126
    apple ][ said:
    cpsro said:

    I assume that not all of those 175 suspects are dead, so they should use other methods to gain access, without compromising my security and the security of all other Apple users. Let them waterboard the suspects, I don't care. Just do not mess with my security.
    I just knew that "the Donald" in you would come out. 
  • Reply 95 of 126
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,657member

    Free speech and freedom of assembly do not apply to plots to commit mass murder. The public has a legitimate right to reconstruct all the activities of the terrorist couple that led up to the atrocity. Furthermore, the phone itself belongs to San Bernardino County, meaning its taxpayers. Finally, please keep in mind that the argument you are trying to assert would have protected Richard Nixon, if it were a valid one. It didn't, because it wasn't. Daniel Ellsberg could not have published the Pentagon Papers if the public did not have a right to know. You are on a slippery slope, Apple, no matter how enamored you might be of your position and your privacy. Again, just as Richard Nixon was, this particular terrorist was a public employee, so shielding his phone from scrutiny would be the equivalent of shielding Richard Nixon from being scrutinized for his workplace behavior...
    Hot damn. Don't quote the entire article. Apple isn't preventing the FBI from accessing the phone nor is it hiding anything. Apple isn't the owner of the phone. It doesn't want to create new software to bypass security measures. And it's its right not to work for the govt. 
    brakken
  • Reply 96 of 126
    Yea, if this discussion were about the rampant proliferation of guns and the 30k deaths we have annually you'd see thousands of comments about the 2nd Amendment. But since it's only about the 4th Amendment and several other ambiguous rights to privacy and intrusion of law enforcement on basic liberties, the right wingers don't care. LIke every other issue, they are stupid enough to think they can give up a whole lot of liberty in sacrifice to a little security. It never matter what sort of outlandish nonsense law enforcement does, they are there supporting the fascist cause.
    jony0brakken
  • Reply 97 of 126
    It is very strange to see so many strawmen in one place (if you are for privacy, you must be hiding criminality)!
    edited February 2016
  • Reply 98 of 126
    icoco3 said:
    "Obama administration, FBI must act to restore US government's credibility..."

    How does one restore what one never had. wink

    P.S Great article.

    153
    155
    Partisan gibberish...
  • Reply 99 of 126
    One fun piece of irony from all this could be what Apple is forced to create two types of iPhone: 1) American back door accessible version and 2) secure international version.

    US laws do not apply to international sales and the government cannot mandate outside its jurisdiction so this could in fact be a double edged sword for US Law enforcement as such.

    Ultimately, because he didn't destroy his 'work' phone and did destroy his 'personal' phone I would think that he in fact had any useful information on his 'personal' phone and the work phone will have nothing of use on it.

    ..and a final point, if the shooter was known to law enforcement and they did nothing, what does getting retrospective information do to help stop other terrorists?

    Unfortunately the innocent people of San Bernadino are deceased and creating this precedent (and thats all it is) is a very high price to pay. If the no privacy to prevent terrorism advocates are so gungho about it, do they ever send their mail via post card or use an envelope? Do you bank online with SSL encryption on or off (well the bank mandates its on). We all have information that we do not want others to access so building the proverbial back door is very problematic and disturbing.

    Cheers Dr Hawk
    baconstang
  • Reply 100 of 126
    fracfrac Posts: 480member
    You really want to Change or is this  " Crap talk? You've got to much, RELIGION and GUNS and FEAR , to many , No offense but True! ,MOrmons , your so called Honest ONES , come on Now ,, you know what I Mean. , Get Rid of all, the, ," YA' ALL's or lockstep Federal Bureau OF investigators"  Those Scilly gitters  called, Fellow' s! and replace THEm with , get this , it's an Honest Injun trade. Replace THEM..with, the True Sewards of this,  oNce, All Mighty Kingdom called " Turtle Island" .Expose the LIE'ers and Hire " FULL BLOODED INDIANS" TRUE FBI Agents ( you'll have to ALLOW them to Apply )  there you go, get rid of the " Deed of Discovery" if Ya'all even have that PEACE of evidents , to Claim this land in the First Place,,LIE'ers the Whole lot,,Have a Good Day ,, Things don't CHANGE unless you Face the TRUTH , how MANY bad APPLES does the " FBI" really control?
    First post  ;)
    And last I hope.
    I suggest getting....oh never mind.

    This outbreak is Stupid is...well...gulp!
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