We do need to get this figured out, but because we're having the debate after an extremely horrific event that draws out heavy emotions, the debate is unlikely to be civil and objective.
The Constitution DOES guarantee privacy and protection from an overreaching government. However, the Fourth Amendment allows the government to perform reasonable "search and seizure." As we move to a digital world, we're going to have to figure out how this concept fairly applies.
If this were a proactive debate, instead of a reactive one, it would be much easier to come to common ground. My thought at least. But, we're seeing a ton of polarity in the debate (thanks to politicians preying on emotions) and, as a result, there is little chance of an amicable resolution.
I don't agree with the FBI's first pass at trying to solve the problem, but I do think they need to be able to access critical evidentiary data that could put disgusting criminals away for life, or that could save many innocent lives. We've got to figure out how to effectively compartmentalize information to limit access when a Constitutionally-appropriate warrant is granted by the judiciary.
I agree with this approach. Also, do dead guys have privacy rights?
There is no "compartmentalizing information" in the modern tech world, you live in fairy tales. Also, you're actually assuming there is actual info on a phone terrorists and criminals know you could be routinely entered, or they'd use their best personal phone to conduct business instead of a $100 Android phones they can destroy on which they'd install a few third party apps the FBI has no reach into to lock down their info.
So, basically, you built a straw man at the end to undermine you whole so called "neutral" stance, you brought emotion and well, a logic break in your argument.
Those dead guys are a red herring; the FBI essentially admitted as much today; he wants a precedent and is using this emotionally charged case to do it.
Do the 9 other DOJ cases have privacy right, do Chinese dissidents have privacy rights.... Do all the hundreds of people in NYC whose phones the local AG is waiting for this thing to work have privacy rights? What about the profiled minorities that, in this day and age, still get stopped on a whim all over the south; privacy rights or not?
What about everyone who gets hacked because now there are hooks in the OS to facilitate this "sharing" with authorities, every hook is a entry vector for hackers, not just the legitimate party; do they have privacy rights? What about security of their various financial and health data? No right to that either?
In the case of privacy and security, with modern tech, and the global nature of business and tech, you can't weaken it because too much depends on it and you can't be half protected; you either are, or your not; the who edifice is solid only if all the bricks are in place.
So Cruz said he agree with Apple's "broad policy" that there should not be backdoor access to any iPhone but nonetheless he wants the company to make a backdoor on demand for the government
So Cruz said he agree with Apple's "broad policy" that there should not be backdoor access to any iPhone but nonetheless he wants the company to make a backdoor on demand for the government
He is also they guy that thinks the FBI needs to get into the iPhone to get records about who was texted, called or emailed from that phone.
at least he didn't call for a childish boycott.
Wasnt it Senator Palpatine who used the clone war and fear to get into power? Lol. Terrorists..come in many different forms and use fear of violence to gain control and power. It works both ways folks.. Don't forget how the patriot act was formed and what lead to allowing us to attack Iraq (who had no wmd or anything to do with 911 attack..and who's action eventually lead to formation of ISIS due to,instability created by this action). Who terrorized the the Amercan public to get their goal accomplished? It's happening again folks. ISIS is being used as a political tool known as terrorism. The fear of violence on the general public. Off we go again asking for more power to seek out wmd on iPhones. Guess what they are gonna find? Same as what they found in Iraq. No side effects they say On other phones. Just this one they say? Review of what side effect attacking just Iraq had on the entire Mid East region.
Rubio sure did a 180 of this point, wow. They all need to take a better look at the latest polls before they open their mouth.
I notice that the Democrats are standing on the fence in this one. Politically, probably wise. But shows their lack of conviction on the issue.
In other words, no matter which of these 7 remaining candidates gets elected in the fall? They will not be on the right side of this issue.
It's just the Democrats. Look at the numbers. Is it wise for these GOP candidates to stand so firm in this topic to upset 37-38% percent of their party? Are they just terrorizing people with fear of violence to gain their vote?
Too bad Rand Paul is not still in the presidential race, I guess it's time to support a Libertarian party candidate! Looks like John McAfee is running...
how do we know what the actual split of GOP factions looks like and what is a majority? It may be even more fragmented than Andriod releases.
By their votes ye may judge them. There is rhetoric, and then there are their unarguable voting records.
Agree. And the votes to overturn Citizen's United:
Fifty-four senators, all Democrats and independents who caucus with the Democrats, voted Thursday for the amendment to clarify in the Constitution that Congress and the states have the authority to do what they did for a century before activist judges began intervening on behalf of wealthy donors and corporations: enact meaningful campaign finance rules and regulations.
But forty-two senators, all Republicans, voted no.
Each of these guys wants to be the President of the United States, yet it is apparent that all but two of them are completely uniformed about the Apple vs DOJ issue. And the two that seem like they might be informed, pander to their ignorant constituency. All the candidates ought to take notice that media coverage of this issue dropped precipitously shortly after Apple responded to the Court. Apple's brief reveals that the FBI and the DOJ have acted with duplicity and incompetence in the iPhone issue.
The American people should despise men who want to be President of the United States, but are unwilling to prepare for the job.
"the systematic use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective. Terrorism has been practiced by political organizations with both rightist and leftist objectives, by nationalistic and religious groups, by revolutionaries, and even by state institutions such as armies, intelligence services, and police."
so I got to wonder. Who's acting like a terrorist on the topic?
The origin of the word terrorism is French and was used in exactly the way you're implying, state terrorism where the government used groups to kill and intimidate political opponents. Recently it's been changed to mean an individual attacking groups of innocent people so I can see how the director of the FBI fits both definitions.
For those of you who don't realize that the US is the number one terrorist organization in the world, open you eyes and see what this country is doing to other countries. It's appropriate to use the original definition of terrorism in this case.
"the systematic use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective. Terrorism has been practiced by political organizations with both rightist and leftist objectives, by nationalistic and religious groups, by revolutionaries, and even by state institutions such as armies, intelligence services, and police."
so I got to wonder. Who's acting like a terrorist on the topic?
The origin of the word terrorism is French and was used in exactly the way you're implying, state terrorism where the government used groups to kill and intimidate political opponents. Recently it's been changed to mean an individual attacking groups of innocent people so I can see how the director of the FBI fits both definitions.
For those of you who don't realize that the US is the number one terrorist organization in the world, open you eyes and see what this country is doing to other countries. It's appropriate to use the original definition of terrorism in this case.
Can't we all just get along? Human nature I guess. Power and control. Money, actual violence,fear or violence, sex, formation of political groups, ...whatever people have at their disposal to get a leg up on someone else and take control of others.
Actually, Cruz is 100% correct, and is making Apple's exact argument. Apple should be and appears more than willing to comply with a valid court order. The FBI request, revealed even more today with their testimony, is not a valid court order because it's 1. unconstitutional, and 2. not feasible. They've blustered about Apple, but it's apparently the FBI that screwed up the whole investigation. They should have contacted Apple first, but they didn't and then screwed up trying to access the terrorists phone. Ted Cruz said exactly what anyone who understands the law and the constitution should say. He doesn't have all the facts about the case, but he understands that if the FBI can come up with a valid court order, and what they're asking is possible without violating everyone else's privacy, then Apple should comply. That doesn't seem to be the case here, so Apple is perfectly within their rights and correct to refuse the FBI request. The other candidates, as usual, just spoke ignorantly, but Cruz was on point.
I think Apple should create a Lab on their property and require that all FBI activity be conducted at that facility. Additionally it should record all FBI activity while they are at the facility and provide that information to the public.
I think Apple should create a Lab on their property and require that all FBI activity be conducted at that facility. Additionally it should record all FBI activity while they are at the facility and provide that information to the public.
I think Apple is in no position to be making requirements to the FBI on where their jobs are conducted. Just the same as the FBI is in no position to make requirements to Apple to develop and deliver a tool which does not exist. No laws exist for either requirements.
Pretty sure these guys are clueless. Maybe they ought to read Apple's response yesterday. It spells things out pretty clear, including the burden and the consequences.
No politican seems to have enough guts to stop terrorism long term. The iPhone issue, regardless of how it is resolved is not going to stop or prevent terrorism. No a single politican: #1. can explain why we are being terrorized in th first place and #2. Has a long term plan on how to make it stop. Everything is short term and reactive. Plug one hole, while another one is springs a leak. The key IMHO is understand the answer to #1 above. It can be dealt with and overcome. We are no longer enemies of Germany, Japan, and soon no longer enemies of Cuba and Iran and Ukraine..We used to be friends with Russia... Everyone just needs to find a common motivation and make hard compromises.
No politican seems to have enough guts to stop terrorism long term. The iPhone issue, regardless of how it is resolved is not going to stop or prevent terrorism. No a single political : #1. can explain why we are being terrorized in th first place
Well, that is disputable. I am not saying you have to agree with terrorists but in order to understand them you need to be able to look at the situation from the their pov. There is much history involved and to simply state that the people attacking us are criminals is unhelpful and untrue. US foreign policy over the last 50 years may explain a lot. I believe the first step to prevent terrorism long term is to understand what drives it. When, and and as the result of what, has religious fundamentalism sprung up in the past and what can be done to prevent such situations to re-occur?
Comments
Also, you're actually assuming there is actual info on a phone terrorists and criminals know you could be routinely entered, or they'd use their best personal phone to conduct business instead of a $100 Android phones they can destroy on which they'd install a few third party apps the FBI has no reach into to lock down their info.
So, basically, you built a straw man at the end to undermine you whole so called "neutral" stance, you brought emotion and well, a logic break in your argument.
Those dead guys are a red herring; the FBI essentially admitted as much today; he wants a precedent and is using this emotionally charged case to do it.
Do the 9 other DOJ cases have privacy right, do Chinese dissidents have privacy rights....
Do all the hundreds of people in NYC whose phones the local AG is waiting for this thing to work have privacy rights?
What about the profiled minorities that, in this day and age, still get stopped on a whim all over the south; privacy rights or not?
What about everyone who gets hacked because now there are hooks in the OS to facilitate this "sharing" with authorities, every hook is a entry vector for hackers, not just the legitimate party; do they have privacy rights? What about security of their various financial and health data? No right to that either?
In the case of privacy and security, with modern tech, and the global nature of business and tech, you can't weaken it because too much depends on it and you can't be half protected; you either are, or your not; the who edifice is solid only if all the bricks are in place.
at least he didn't call for a childish boycott.
Wasnt it Senator Palpatine who used the clone war and fear to get into power? Lol.
Terrorists..come in many different forms and use fear of violence to gain control and power. It works both ways folks.. Don't forget how the patriot act was formed and what lead to allowing us to attack Iraq (who had no wmd or anything to do with 911 attack..and who's action eventually lead to formation of ISIS due to,instability created by this action). Who terrorized the the Amercan public to get their goal accomplished? It's happening again folks. ISIS is being used as a political tool known as terrorism. The fear of violence on the general public. Off we go again asking for more power to seek out wmd on iPhones. Guess what they are gonna find? Same as what they found in Iraq. No side effects they say On other phones. Just this one they say? Review of what side effect attacking just Iraq had on the entire Mid East region.
In other words, no matter which of these 7 remaining candidates gets elected in the fall? They will not be on the right side of this issue.
http://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/16/02/24/new-poll-says-public-sides-with-apple-over-fbi-in-resisting-iphone-unlock-order
https://www.lp.org/candidates/presidential-candidates-2016
Upcoming Libertarian party debate Monday, March 7, 2016 - 9:00 pm EST:
http://www.lp.org/event/libertarian-party-presidential-debate-0
Fifty-four senators, all Democrats and independents who caucus with the Democrats, voted Thursday for the amendment to clarify in the Constitution that Congress and the states have the authority to do what they did for a century before activist judges began intervening on behalf of wealthy donors and corporations: enact meaningful campaign finance rules and regulations.
But forty-two senators, all Republicans, voted no.
The American people should despise men who want to be President of the United States, but are unwilling to prepare for the job.
Log In? Hello...
For those of you who don't realize that the US is the number one terrorist organization in the world, open you eyes and see what this country is doing to other countries. It's appropriate to use the original definition of terrorism in this case.
Maybe they ought to read Apple's response yesterday.
It spells things out pretty clear, including the burden and the consequences.
#1. can explain why we are being terrorized in th first place
and
#2. Has a long term plan on how to make it stop. Everything is short term and reactive. Plug one hole, while another one is springs a leak. The key IMHO is understand the answer to #1 above. It can be dealt with and overcome. We are no longer enemies of Germany, Japan, and soon no longer enemies of Cuba and Iran and Ukraine..We used to be friends with Russia... Everyone just needs to find a common motivation and make hard compromises.