I have a system that can easily support the Rift. My issue with this company is that they have produced a system to sell high end video cards versus building the system efficiently. You should not need the type of processing power for what they are doing. This is pure marketing BS to support higher end hardware. In my opinion this will hurt them in the long run. I think Apple could do it right by making this possible within the headset itself. Or with an iPhone or iPad. That would be for the masses. I did order a Rift as I love this stuff but I do not agree with the approach. As for the comments on "Build a good computer"??? Not sure that was a good choice of words. "Once they build a computer with proper specifications" would have been a more profession versus self serving statement.
But then it's going to eliminate what the Mac Pro is good at, and make it a computer with a workstation (6-core, so you're still in the Xeon range) CPU and a gaming GPU. That's a stupid build. Apple could release a new Mac Pro with a single Skylate i7 6700 or so and a pair of 980Tis, they'd probably charge the $2.5 to $3k range for it, and it'd be one hell of a gaming beast that'd run the Oculus (and any game) nicely, but it changes what the machine does. A 980 won't beat a D700 at rendering stuff in Premier, using photoshop or any kind of workhorse stuff, and a D700 won't beat the 980 in framerates for games. Different cards, different purposes.
The 980m runs anywhere between 50% and 70% of the 980 depending on what game/benchmark you're running.
I agree with you, it surely wouldn't take much for Apple to have at least a BTO option for an excellent gaming Mac. As I mentioned a few posts above, if Bootcamp drivers had up to date AMD driver support for the option of running Crossfire too for dual GPU Macs, in both OS X and Windows, they would be pretty cool Macs (well hot actually lol). I managed to hack a pretty good system but I am unable to get Crimson / DirectX 12 working so still stuck on DirectX 11 for Windows 10. I'd love to see Crosfire running in OS X for games. Of course Catalyst control panel allows it to automatically toggle off for apps that don't want parallel GPUs so the likes of FCPro X would not be affected. The very fact Rockstar and others do not care about OS X is precisely because Apple simply don't seem to want to participate. My point is if it were a BTO to upgrade for a Mac to a Games level machine in lower end Macs and if Crossfire were supported in the high end Macs these gaming and VR companies might start taking notice of Apple.
You can flash 970's and have them work in 2013 Mac Pros, and it runs the Oculus fine through bootcamp - better than the current mac pros. I don't know why Apple seemed to abandoned that market, I loved those boxes. I have one right now that's running Gentoo, decked out with 1TB drives acting as a media server and it works pretty darn good. I wish I could do that with the new mac pros.
I agree with you, it surely wouldn't take much for Apple to have at least a BTO option for an excellent gaming Mac. As I mentioned a few posts above, if Bootcamp drivers had up to date AMD driver support for the option of running Crossfire too for dual GPU Macs, in both OS X and Windows, they would be pretty cool Macs (well hot actually lol). I managed to hack a pretty good system but I am unable to get Crimson / DirectX 12 working so still stuck on DirectX 11 for Windows 10. I'd love to see Crosfire running in OS X for games. Of course Catalyst control panel allows it to automatically toggle off for apps that don't want parallel GPUs so the likes of FCPro X would not be affected. The very fact Rockstar and others do not care about OS X is precisely because Apple simply don't seem to want to participate. My point is if it were a BTO to upgrade for a Mac to a Games level machine in lower end Macs and if Crossfire were supported in the high end Macs these gaming and VR companies might start taking notice of Apple.
You can flash 970's and have them work in 2013 Mac Pros, and it runs the Oculus fine through bootcamp - better than the current mac pros. I don't know why Apple seemed to abandoned that market, I loved those boxes. I have one right now that's running Gentoo, decked out with 1TB drives acting as a media server and it works pretty darn good. I wish I could do that with the new mac pros.
Do I understand correctly ... you are saying you can flash the GPUs in a 2013 Mac Pro to be seen as standard ADM GPUs by ADM drivers? Also if that's what you are saying what happens back in OS X with FCProX etc.. Or did you mean pre-2013 Mac pros aka cheese graters? I sold that model a while back to get the new one so I am SOL on that one lol. I just wish I could trick the Crimson installation to accepting the Apple ADM GPUs as I did with the Omega drivers. BTW I didn't even use Bootcamp, I boot directly to Windows on an external USB3 SSD.
You can flash 970's and have them work in 2013 Mac Pros, and it runs the Oculus fine through bootcamp - better than the current mac pros. I don't know why Apple seemed to abandoned that market, I loved those boxes. I have one right now that's running Gentoo, decked out with 1TB drives acting as a media server and it works pretty darn good. I wish I could do that with the new mac pros.
Do I understand correctly ... you are saying you can flash the GPUs in a 2013 Mac Pro to be seen as standard ADM GPUs by ADM drivers? Also if that's what you are saying what happens back in OS X with FCProX etc.. Or did you mean pre-2013 Mac pros aka cheese graters? I sold that model a while back to get the new one so I am SOL on that one lol. I just wish I could trick the Crimson installation to accepting the Apple ADM GPUs as I did with the Omega drivers. BTW I didn't even use Bootcamp, I boot directly to Windows on an external USB3 SSD.
Not exactly, but kind of.
It's not officially supported, so if it's unflashed then you won't get the grey Apple screen as the card doesn't have an EFI mode - this is true for any non-mac PCIe GPU. If you only have an unflashed GPU, you'll need to boot up something like NTFS for Mac or you can bone yourself if a drive fails.
Mac and Windows both work fine with it, there's Mac drivers provided by nVidia. Linux likewise.
I’m saying that for whatever reason this piece of garbage DISMOUNTS ITSELF RANDOMLY, without warning and without recoverability. Here’s the procedure.
Windows “hardware removed” sound plays. Display goes dark. Comes back with just my cursor on a black screen. Force shutdown. Swap display output to my GT 120. Restart. Open Display Driver Uninstaller. Restart into Safe Mode. Run Display Driver Uninstaller. Restart. Reinstall nVidia driver. Shut down. Swap display output to my GTX 980. Restart. Works again until it doesn’t, which could be minutes.
I think it’s a problem with OpenGL, but I have no idea how to fix it.
I’m saying that for whatever reason this piece of garbage DISMOUNTS ITSELF RANDOMLY, without warning and without recoverability. Here’s the procedure.
Windows “hardware removed” sound plays. Display goes dark. Comes back with just my cursor on a black screen. Force shutdown. Swap display output to my GT 120. Restart. Open Display Driver Uninstaller. Restart into Safe Mode. Run Display Driver Uninstaller. Restart. Reinstall nVidia driver. Shut down. Swap display output to my GTX 980. Restart. Works again until it doesn’t, which could be minutes.
I think it’s a problem with OpenGL, but I have no idea how to fix it.
That sounds like it's caused by your mainboard not supporting a vbois of 128k, though that's usually more associated with not waking from sleep than random crashes. How do you know it's dismounting rather than just turning off? I know eGPU support was delivered in a recent nVidia driver, but choosing to eject the card if it's internal does nothing.
I've googled the issue and can't find many results on the issue, bar a single thread on nvidia's forums. Can you link some info on it?
That sounds like it's caused by your mainboard not supporting a vbois of 128k, though that's usually more associated with not waking from sleep than random crashes.
Yeah, I can’t sleep in Windows, either. OS X works fine.
How do you know it's dismounting rather than just turning off?
Just the Windows ‘hardware removed’ sound, and afterward the fans spin down.
...bar a single thread on nvidia’s forums.
That’s probably mine.
What more information would you need that I could provide?
You can flash 970's and have them work in 2013 Mac Pros, and it runs the Oculus fine through bootcamp - better than the current mac pros. I don't know why Apple seemed to abandoned that market, I loved those boxes. I have one right now that's running Gentoo, decked out with 1TB drives acting as a media server and it works pretty darn good. I wish I could do that with the new mac pros.
You would be able to get a 970 working with any modern Mac externally over Thunderbolt like so:
Someone in the Amazon comments got a 980ti to work in it with their Macbook Pro. That's an option for people who really need to experiment with cards in between upgrades. For people who upgrade every couple of years, they'll get the latest GPUs with the machine. The next Mac Pro update will be like having a dual 980ti in it.
That sounds like it's caused by your mainboard not supporting a vbois of 128k, though that's usually more associated with not waking from sleep than random crashes.
Yeah, I can’t sleep in Windows, either. OS X works fine. Just the Windows ‘hardware removed’ sound, and afterward the fans spin down. That’s probably mine.
What more information would you need that I could provide?
How long ago did you buy it? Have you checked temps? What's your mobo set to do on overheating? (What is your motherboard?)
Honestly, sounds like an RMA issue. Because there's so little info on the matter I'm thinking it's an individualized fault rather than a widespread concern.
Someone in the Amazon comments got a 980ti to work in it with their Macbook Pro. That's an option for people who really need to experiment with cards in between upgrades. For people who upgrade every couple of years, they'll get the latest GPUs with the machine. The next Mac Pro update will be like having a dual 980ti in it.
Why would it have a 980 when a Quadro would be a far better card choice for a workstation? I'd much rather see it upped to a W7100-series (D710?) or something like an M4000. I wouldn't like to see a gaming graphics card in it.
In terms of specs - the PS4 VR delivers a1080p resolution, with only half of that - 960x1080 - to each eye. It supposedly runs at 120fps (again, 60 in each eye), but I'm not sure how the PS4 is going to do that considering it hardly outputs at 30fps stable in most games at 1080, and most run at 720p or 960. The oculus has a resolution of 2160 x 1200, with 1080x1200 going into each eye, so it's got about 25-30% higher pixel density. It also has a global refresh of 90fps. The PS4 VR also has some kind of co-processor, the details of which have not been fully disclosed by Sony, and it's about half the size of the existing PS4 (photo). The occulus lacks this, and plugs directly into the PC with HDMI/USB.
Could you provide some documentation that says that "most" PS4 games run at 720p and 960 (also which one, as there is a difference between 720 and 960)
How long ago did you buy it? Have you checked temps? What's your mobo set to do on overheating? (What is your motherboard?)
Honestly, sounds like an RMA issue. Because there's so little info on the matter I'm thinking it's an individualized fault rather than a widespread concern.
Early September, I’ll do that the next time I boot to Windows, and I haven’t changed any settings to my EFI/BIOS/whatever.
It’s an Early 2009 Mac Pro, so Gainestown. Stock motherboard (of course), standard everything.
I’d feel a lot better about it being the fault of just my card, but then I have to deal with the fact that I can’t get a replacement for it.
Well. No actually. We don't. Because it's nothing to do with topic.
It most certainly does. It addresses the implication re: "If they ever release a good computer, we will do it,"
It also dispels the notion that "good" = high-end video card, when Apple is already, plainly and by every objective standard established as the maker of the best computers in the business in terms of overall value and user experience.
It was plainly obvious that by good the oculus meant the requisite hp was present.
I dont have have a problem with Macs. I have a bunch of them. But I've never pretended they're ever going to be maxed out gaming rigss.
Maybe you should check the definition of objectivity. My iMac is perfectly good for what I'm doing with it. Is my statement objective too?
He didn't just say "good". It's in the article you're responding to.
"It just boils down to the fact that Apple doesn't prioritize high-end GPUs," he explained. "You can buy a $6,000 Mac Pro with the top of the line AMD FirePro D700, and it still doesn't match our recommended specs. So if they prioritize higher-end GPUs like they used to for a while back in the day, we'd love to support Mac. But right now, there's just not a single machine out there that supports it."
no need to get butt hurt about it. Recommended specs aren't met. End of story.
If if you really want an oculus experience then you can get it by building a bespoke rig. Mac users I am continually told here are richer smarter and better looking than everybody else so I don't see a problem.
Me? I'm kinda average looking, but I do have a bit of money so I've got that going for me. Can't wait for the next response to call out my intelligence... So predictable.
Shouldn't the biggest, richest, whatever, computer company build computers for everybody ?
I don't understand comments in favor of ignoring those who want a decent GPU.
At least give the option so that people have a CHOICE !
What's the use of making razor-thin iMacs ? Should i look at my screen from the side ? Thats just a useless, insane objective.
Apple has been selling 3rd grade, which are also two or three year old components, while charging a premium. All is fair right ? Remember the Mac Mini ? Why is it intentionally crippled on the GPU side ?
Why am i not ALOWED to buy me a Mac Mini which is AT LEAST an iMac without a screen ?
And why is Apple not selling computers in a tier between the Mac Pro and the Mini (without a screen) ? Is that because Apple won't sell as many units of it as the iPhone ?
I am a lifetime Apple-user but this intentionally crippling Macs with a silly cheap a$$ GPU makes me mad, seriously mad. If i want to enjoy a few ours a week of WOW or any other stupid game, let me be stupid for an hour a week. Give me the freakin choice to do so !
Because the vast majority of people using Macs don't want to rip open their computer to fiddle with it. That's the point. If you want to fiddle, don't buy a Mac.This philosophy is used across the entire Mac product line and started a long time ago, in an Apple universe far far away.
I did not say i like fidling like Windows users have to do every day to keep their junk going. Using up to date compnents makes a good Mac fiddle free !
And your comments on an Apple related website proves how much of a moronic troll you are.
His/her first two posts at that. He maybe right/correct though; I come across a *good amount* of 'fans' who don't have the technical knowledge, but then again, isn't that why Apple's products have been successfully? Because we live in a world, currently anyway, where a good amount of people aren't technical. What I disagree with though, is as you become technical, and if (IMO) you're truly objective and don't have a (currently) niche requirement, you see the 'value' of what Apple offers. That's why after 12+ years of building my own PC's with friends, I bought a retina MBP in 2012 and I'm on schedule to not replace it for probably another 2/3 years, at least. That's also why, I read and enjoy the details of what apple as done in their iOS security guides. To each their own - some like the color green, some like the color blue. We can (and should) all learn to get along with out the hate/vitriol...
Still, after 2 comments, @handen2015, it seems pretty clear where you're coming from.
macmichiel said:
You do have a choice - just don't buy Apple? And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Buy Alienware, or build your own (as I used to). Apple (apparently) couldn't care less, currently, anyway about that market. If/when things change, you'll see Apples stance change, no? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There are as many reasons not to use Windows for anything as there are viruses for it. Buying some other brand is not a solution for the problems i mentioned. Or is the Mac ecosystem totally hunky dory?
Shouldn't the biggest, richest, whatever, computer company build computers for everybody ?
I don't understand comments in favor of ignoring those who want a decent GPU.
At least give the option so that people have a CHOICE !
What's the use of making razor-thin iMacs ? Should i look at my screen from the side ? Thats just a useless, insane objective.
Apple has been selling 3rd grade, which are also two or three year old components, while charging a premium. All is fair right ? Remember the Mac Mini ? Why is it intentionally crippled on the GPU side ?
Why am i not ALOWED to buy me a Mac Mini which is AT LEAST an iMac without a screen ?
And why is Apple not selling computers in a tier between the Mac Pro and the Mini (without a screen) ? Is that because Apple won't sell as many units of it as the iPhone ?
I am a lifetime Apple-user but this intentionally crippling Macs with a silly cheap a$$ GPU makes me mad, seriously mad. If i want to enjoy a few ours a week of WOW or any other stupid game, let me be stupid for an hour a week. Give me the freakin choice to do so !
No they should design and produce computers for their market. Usually those that they can create an excellent product and has enough users willing to pay a good profit which is the purpose for being in business. So you do have a choice if you are interested in gaming or some other niche market, buy a PC or use a device that is designed to use Apple's products. Oculus will likely be far less popular in 3 years than 3D TV's and computer screens are now.
Another guy telling me to buy a PC... I'LL NEVER DO THAT BRCAUSE THE BOX IS CRAP AND WINDOWS IS CRAP !
Every person who tells me to buy a PC acknowledges that there is something wrong with the Mac lineup without even realizing it themselves ! That is pretty weird...
Comments
You can flash 970's and have them work in 2013 Mac Pros, and it runs the Oculus fine through bootcamp - better than the current mac pros. I don't know why Apple seemed to abandoned that market, I loved those boxes. I have one right now that's running Gentoo, decked out with 1TB drives acting as a media server and it works pretty darn good. I wish I could do that with the new mac pros.
Maybe you should check the definition of objectivity. My iMac is perfectly good for what I'm doing with it. Is my statement objective too?
It's not officially supported, so if it's unflashed then you won't get the grey Apple screen as the card doesn't have an EFI mode - this is true for any non-mac PCIe GPU. If you only have an unflashed GPU, you'll need to boot up something like NTFS for Mac or you can bone yourself if a drive fails.
Mac and Windows both work fine with it, there's Mac drivers provided by nVidia. Linux likewise.
Windows “hardware removed” sound plays. Display goes dark. Comes back with just my cursor on a black screen. Force shutdown. Swap display output to my GT 120. Restart. Open Display Driver Uninstaller. Restart into Safe Mode. Run Display Driver Uninstaller. Restart. Reinstall nVidia driver. Shut down. Swap display output to my GTX 980. Restart. Works again until it doesn’t, which could be minutes.
I think it’s a problem with OpenGL, but I have no idea how to fix it.
That sounds like it's caused by your mainboard not supporting a vbois of 128k, though that's usually more associated with not waking from sleep than random crashes. How do you know it's dismounting rather than just turning off? I know eGPU support was delivered in a recent nVidia driver, but choosing to eject the card if it's internal does nothing.
I've googled the issue and can't find many results on the issue, bar a single thread on nvidia's forums. Can you link some info on it?
Just the Windows ‘hardware removed’ sound, and afterward the fans spin down.
That’s probably mine.
What more information would you need that I could provide?
The box used there is $218:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LTAUTHE/
http://www.akitio.com/expansion/thunder2-pcie-box
Someone in the Amazon comments got a 980ti to work in it with their Macbook Pro. That's an option for people who really need to experiment with cards in between upgrades. For people who upgrade every couple of years, they'll get the latest GPUs with the machine. The next Mac Pro update will be like having a dual 980ti in it.
How long ago did you buy it? Have you checked temps? What's your mobo set to do on overheating? (What is your motherboard?)
Honestly, sounds like an RMA issue. Because there's so little info on the matter I'm thinking it's an individualized fault rather than a widespread concern.
Why would it have a 980 when a Quadro would be a far better card choice for a workstation? I'd much rather see it upped to a W7100-series (D710?) or something like an M4000. I wouldn't like to see a gaming graphics card in it.
Could you provide some documentation that says that "most" PS4 games run at 720p and 960 (also which one, as there is a difference between 720 and 960)
It’s an Early 2009 Mac Pro, so Gainestown. Stock motherboard (of course), standard everything.
I’d feel a lot better about it being the fault of just my card, but then I have to deal with the fact that I can’t get a replacement for it.
I dont have have a problem with Macs. I have a bunch of them. But I've never pretended they're ever going to be maxed out gaming rigss.
"It just boils down to the fact that Apple doesn't prioritize high-end GPUs," he explained. "You can buy a $6,000 Mac Pro with the top of the line AMD FirePro D700, and it still doesn't match our recommended specs. So if they prioritize higher-end GPUs like they used to for a while back in the day, we'd love to support Mac. But right now, there's just not a single machine out there that supports it."
no need to get butt hurt about it. Recommended specs aren't met. End of story.
If if you really want an oculus experience then you can get it by building a bespoke rig. Mac users I am continually told here are richer smarter and better looking than everybody else so I don't see a problem.
Me? I'm kinda average looking, but I do have a bit of money so I've got that going for me. Can't wait for the next response to call out my intelligence... So predictable.
I did not say i like fidling like Windows users have to do every day to keep their junk going. Using up to date compnents makes a good Mac fiddle free !
There are as many reasons not to use Windows for anything as there are viruses for it. Buying some other brand is not a solution for the problems i mentioned. Or is the Mac ecosystem totally hunky dory?
Another guy telling me to buy a PC... I'LL NEVER DO THAT BRCAUSE THE BOX IS CRAP AND WINDOWS IS CRAP !
Every person who tells me to buy a PC acknowledges that there is something wrong with the Mac lineup without even realizing it themselves ! That is pretty weird...