Hands on: Apple takes aim at PC users with 9.7" iPad Pro

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  • Reply 41 of 65
    adamcadamc Posts: 582member

    reflows said:
    Apple is making hardware that's closer and closer to what I'm hoping for - but missing the boat. I am a Mac enthusiast, but the use case for the iPad pro is in conference rooms and meetings. That's where the surface is dominating. In a meeting you need access to a real file system, and when you have the iPad propped up like a monitor, you're in laptop mode and need a mouse or trackpad. (It would be easy to turn my iPhone into a trackpad for that purpose). Steve Jobs was the one who said nobody wants to be reaching up to touch a vertical touch screen, and he was right. Apple is being uncharacteristically ideological, placing the focus on what a touch-based system is "supposed" to do instead of matching the user's needs. When I've got an iPad horizontal I touch it and want to use a pen on it, but when it's facing me vertically with a screen in front, *I'm* in laptop mode and the device should match the use, not some ideologically driven preconception of what touch-based systems should do. If they focused on what I need in a conference room I'll buy it, but everyone else at work is on the Surface now and I may succumb - because it uses a real file system and has a trackpad.
    At that distance you don't need a track pad or a mouse and Steve Jobs was talking about the desktop.
    But at the end of the day if you think you are being disadvantage then get something which you think will make you work easier.
    You don't have to use an iPad even though it is the future, the mobile future.
    Oh, the surface is a laptop so why not use a macbook it has everything you need in your conference room including the trackpad and mouse you missed in an iPad
    1983
  • Reply 42 of 65
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    bb-15 said:
    From the article;
    Interestingly, Apple configures the 9.7 inch Air 2 and Pro models with different capacities, making it more difficult to directly compare the two. iPad Air 2 is offered in 16 and 64GB versions, while the new iPad Pro comes in 32, 64 and 256GB editions. The Air 2 is now priced starting at $399, while the 9.7 inch Pro is $200 more and the 12.9 inch Pro carries yet another $200 premium. That's about as simple of pricing differentiation as one could ask for.
    The new 9.7 inch iPad Pro comes in 32, 128 (not 64GB) and 256GB editions.
    Because none of the storage configurations are the same the price differentiation with the Air 2 is not simple.
    9.7 iPd Air 2 64 GB $499
    9.7 iPad Pro 32 GB $599
    9.7 iPad Pro 128 GB $749.

    Frankly because the Air is a lot cheaper and if someone does not need the Pencil or the keyboard connector (and considering that the Air 2 is close in speed to the new IP Pro), the Air 2 will be the better deal for a lot of buyers.
    It's not really close in speed, just like the 8 core S7 is not really close in speed to the 2 core S9; It's in fact much faster if you have the task that needs this power.

    But for people doing media consumption and light to medium intensity gaming (95% of Ipad games) and don't need the pen, this difference is academic. So, the conclusion would be the same; the air 2 is a fantastic device for these people.
    brakken
  • Reply 43 of 65
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    AI2xxx said:
    I brought up GFXBench to show the score between 3 iPad's with a mobile benchmark made with Metal in mind.

    I'm talking about the launch prices for the Surface Pro 3, clearly. There is no "i3" version of the Surface Pro 4. Just another case of you not taking the time to actually read my posts.

    "The mere fact that the iPad pro scores on par with the i3 surface pro in that test is pretty remarkable." - Your words.

    Why are you talking about an Xbox and a Playstation? You're trying to compare mobile benchmarks commonly used for ARM devices, not designed for modern x86 hardware.

    I have no clue what you're talking about with "the size of your finger". All of these chips are small.
    1) In that same benchmark, that you brought up, the iPad pro's whooped the m3 surface pro 4. Just sayin'.
    2) the launch prices of the surface pro 3 are irrelivent since the surface pro 4 came out before the iPad pro. If there is a discrepancy in the price, blame Microsoft for that.
    3) there's nothing wrong with me saying "The mere fact that the iPad pro scores on par with the i3 surface pro in that test is pretty remarkable." two years ago the results wouldn't even be close to the same.
    4) incorrect. I'm comparing graphics benchmarks which test graphics performance. If you have a problem with the results, then take that up with 3dmark and GFXbench.
    5) let's see...

    surface pro 4 tear down results:


    Ipad ad pro tear down results





    Which board better fits the description "The size of a finger"? Which one is significantly smaller?

    The problem is that benchmarks, since Apple control the whole stack, don't truly reflect how much smoother than windows under load IOS is at just about everything. Every little bit of benchmark wins ends up in the user's hands in real life unlike with Android and to a lesser extent Windows, which feel sluggish no matter what the benchmark says.

    Can a Windows 10 handle the 4K clips the large Ipad pro handles with 4GB; no it can't.
    As for Android... It would just stall and flatline with that kind of load.



    liquidmark
  • Reply 44 of 65
    Why regurgitate this "PC users" crap, especially several years too late?

    It's more clear than ever that this so-called "convergence" should NOT happen.  When someone boots up a computer now, it's because he needs A COMPUTER.  Not a touchscreen gimmick with no proper I/O, file system, or keyboard.

    Tablets are fine for specialty applications (like shop floors & retail) or playing media.  But Apple has so crippled its mobile devices that they'll never compete with computers.  You can't even get pictures from your camera onto your iPad, because Apple is so idiotically fearful.  Heaven forbid that these portable Unix computing devices have I/O capability.

    The irony is that computers can interact with the world around them much more effectively than Apple's mobile devices.

    And now Apple is allegedly removing the headphone jack.  It's as if they're calling consumers stupid, just to see who comes back for more.
    *ahem*
     

    bestkeptsecret
  • Reply 45 of 65
    AI2xxx said:

    Apple's original 12.9 inch iPad Pro ... but now the same power and capabilities are available in a more compact, highly mobile package for $200 less.
    Nope.

    GFXBench 3.0 - Manhattan Offscreen:

    iPad Pro 12.9 (Metal) - 5017 Frames (80.9 FPS)
    iPad Pro 9.7 (Metal) - 3117 Frames (51.1 FPS)
    iPad Air 2 (Metal) - 2695 Frames (43.8 FPS)

    Source: https://gfxbench.com/result.jsp
    I have never understood the need to show Offscreen results for GFXBench in discussions like these.  If we are wanting to show real world cases for each product, then we need to only take into consideration the Onscreen results.  Seeing as the larger Pro has to run at a larger screen resolution, the frames take a hit, se below:

    GFXBench 3.0 - Manhattan Onscreen:

    iPad Pro 12.9 (Metal) - 2147 Frames (34.6 FPS)
    iPad Pro 9.7 (Metal) - 2219 Frames (35.8 FPS)
    iPad Air 2 (Metal) - 1910 Frames (30.8 FPS)

    The new iPad Pro 9.7 comes out ahead due to the smaller screen/resolution.
  • Reply 46 of 65
    jzonejzone Posts: 2member
    brakken said:
    AI2xxx said:
    That article claiming the iPad Pro outperforms the Surface Pro 4 is simply false. Then there's the comparison of software and ecosystem. iOS is not a viable alternative to Windows.
    Yes. And one day ms will resurge to its natural position as God Boredom Technology and everyone will love being screwed again! Yay!

    Windows Enthusiasts compare max spec Surface against one model iPad. The rest of the world compares iPad and Surface on price, ease of use, mobility, usability, practicality, resale value, build quality, reputation, and brand image. Oh - and apps, security, reliability, personal satisfaction, services, free services that don't suddenly cost money, and an executive team that makes an effort in the fields of environmental protection, recycling, working conditions in foreign countries, renewable resources, and human dignity and basic rights.

    And double oh, a company that forces the ultra-corrupt US govt to adhere to its own constitution.

    So you are right, DED right, that there's no competition. It is simply an error that you reached the wrong conclusion. Apple has no real competition at all.

    Good luck with future trolling endeavours. 
    I use a company issued ipad air 2, and have used a company issued ipad since the ipad 2. The former factor is physically pleasing, and very futuristic. The operating system has never been great for productivity. For the last 4 years we have developed workarounds at our company and, up until recently when we went through a massive back system overhaul just to support the limitations of ios since the majority of our field teams no longer have desktop access at the workcenters, we would (and sometimes still do) have frustratingly find a PC to finish work, training, or ceritfications. So when the surface products came out I bought those for my personal and my family business use because I don't have the money that my company has to support everything that you have to do backend to support apples business experement. I've been using office, files systems, side by side multitasking, etc for years now on a tablet. I dusted off my old surface 2 8.2 Rt yesterday and sold it for $200 because I don't need it anymore and it still does more than the ipad pro minus the the pencil. I look at it as Apple is a prius, and there are other vehicles. Apple will do most of what people want it to do and look cool, but if you drive a prius everyday for work, we'll you just want to own a truck so you can tackle anything and don't have to worry about it!
    brakken
  • Reply 47 of 65
    Can a Windows 10 handle the 4K clips the large Ipad pro handles with 4GB; no it can't.
    Actually, it can. Here is a (my) SP4 driving the internal panel as well as two external 4k monitors at 60Hz, each playing a fullscreen 4k sample video.     Not only that, but it isn't even breaking a sweat - the processor is only running at 1/2 max clock speed (1.3-1.8GHz on the i5 with a top clock of 2.9GHz) and is still only using ~20-25% of the CPU cycles while decoding/playing the files. 

    iPads are nice, and the UI and app ecosystem is *vastly* superior to w10 as a tablet interface. Still, of the three iPads in my house, the only one I use is an old v1 model in my shop because it does a nice job of playing back Plex content or streaming internet radio, and it's not worth selling or trading in. I gave my v3 to my daughter because I don't really need two devices, and the ability to drive two 4k monitors and run desktop software the SP4 fills both my desktop and tablet needs.
    cnocbuiAI2xxx
  • Reply 48 of 65
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,436member
    AI2xxx said:

    Typical troll comment.

    Where does it say the iPad Pro outperforms the Surface Pro 4? Maybe I'm stupid, but I see the words "strong price/performance competitor". Perhaps you'd like to explain your lack in reading comprehension skills to us?

    Windows on a tablet is a joke, and iOS is vastly superior. Android is already garbage for tablet optimized Apps but even Windows tops it as the worst tablet OS around. 
    You didn't bother clicking on the article, so I'll wait until you do, that way you can eat your words.

    For productivity, iOS is not vastly superior to Windows. I'd like to see you running software such as Siemens NX in touch mode on an iPad Pro, something a Surface Pro 4 can handle.
    reflows said:
    Apple is making hardware that's closer and closer to what I'm hoping for - but missing the boat. I am a Mac enthusiast, but the use case for the iPad pro is in conference rooms and meetings. That's where the surface is dominating. In a meeting you need access to a real file system, and when you have the iPad propped up like a monitor, you're in laptop mode and need a mouse or trackpad. (It would be easy to turn my iPhone into a trackpad for that purpose). Steve Jobs was the one who said nobody wants to be reaching up to touch a vertical touch screen, and he was right. Apple is being uncharacteristically ideological, placing the focus on what a touch-based system is "supposed" to do instead of matching the user's needs. When I've got an iPad horizontal I touch it and want to use a pen on it, but when it's facing me vertically with a screen in front, *I'm* in laptop mode and the device should match the use, not some ideologically driven preconception of what touch-based systems should do. If they focused on what I need in a conference room I'll buy it, but everyone else at work is on the Surface now and I may succumb - because it uses a real file system and has a trackpad.
    Why do you need a file system when all docs are available in iCloud or Dropbox? If apps are designed properly there is no need for a track pad. That is for desktop apps which means their potential is being limited. 
  • Reply 49 of 65
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,268member
    adamc said:
    At that distance you don't need a track pad or a mouse and Steve Jobs was talking about the desktop.
    But at the end of the day if you think you are being disadvantage then get something which you think will make you work easier.
    You don't have to use an iPad even though it is the future, the mobile future.
    Oh, the surface is a laptop so why not use a macbook it has everything you need in your conference room including the trackpad and mouse you missed in an iPad
    Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see too much of a difference between an iPad w/ keyboard and a PC / Mac from an ergonomic POV.  The iPad Pro w/ keyboard is an example of what SJ called, "ergonomically terrible". 

    "We've done tons of user testing on this, and it turns out it doesn't work. Touch surfaces don't want to be vertical.  It gives great demo but after a short period of time, you start to fatigue and after an extended period of time, your arm wants to fall off. it doesn't work, it's ergonomically terrible.  Touch surfaces want to be horizontal, hence pads."
    http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-touch-screen-mac-2010-10

    Yes, SJ was talking about desktop, and that's exactly what is Apple trying to push, iPads as a desktop replacement.  Looks like he didn't liked the idea.  The Surface has a big advantage at giving you the option to use touch or a trackpad. 
  • Reply 50 of 65
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,074member
    bb-15 said:
    From the article;
    Interestingly, Apple configures the 9.7 inch Air 2 and Pro models with different capacities, making it more difficult to directly compare the two. iPad Air 2 is offered in 16 and 64GB versions, while the new iPad Pro comes in 32, 64 and 256GB editions. The Air 2 is now priced starting at $399, while the 9.7 inch Pro is $200 more and the 12.9 inch Pro carries yet another $200 premium. That's about as simple of pricing differentiation as one could ask for.
    The new 9.7 inch iPad Pro comes in 32, 128 (not 64GB) and 256GB editions.
    Because none of the storage configurations are the same the price differentiation with the Air 2 is not simple.
    9.7 iPd Air 2 64 GB $499
    9.7 iPad Pro 32 GB $599
    9.7 iPad Pro 128 GB $749.

    Frankly because the Air is a lot cheaper and if someone does not need the Pencil or the keyboard connector (and considering that the Air 2 is close in speed to the new IP Pro), the Air 2 will be the better deal for a lot of buyers.

    The $200 Price difference between the iPad Air 2 and iPad Pro 9.7 and iPad Pro 12.9 isn't "differentiation" but Price gouging. The Pro 9.7inch should start at $499 and the 12.9 inch should start at $649. Or at least include 1 Pencil with every Pro purchase at no additional charge (maybe this would result in more software written to take advantage of the Pro) Unfortunately this will probably result in even further falling iPad Sales for the Apr-Jun quarter. We will see.
  • Reply 51 of 65
    I've used Mac OS & iOS, Windows from Basic to 10, also Droid on a Samsung S5, Note5 and their 12.2 tablet, also Commander 64, 128 Amiga 500 & 2000 which I ran Mac OS, Windows, Linux. The Best Computer was the Commodore Amiga 2000, then Windows10 and Mac OS 7, 8 & 9, 10 started the crap OS.. I've used windows phone, sorry microsoft they suck. I've used Iphone 3g, 4? 6+ the 4 & 6+ still have att. issues, with dropped calls. The Samsung Droid runs ring around the iPhone iOS. The Samsung is very Customizable. The other thing with the smartphones is your carrier. T-mobile is better with what is and not active. I have friends that have both ATT & Version, they had to go back to the store to get the VPN to work, on their 6+The ace for the iPhone is that you can erase the phone from any where. The droid you have to have a service to do that. You can trace it but not wipe it. Oh yes, I own the iPod 9.7 air2 and the samsung 12.2 tab. Samsung Droid is better. Two things Apple to get me back, is to have one OS PERIOD. Dropped Intel and go with AMD, besides being cheaper, they are better, running Photoshop, Premier Pro & After Effects, Ill., etc.I build a system for a friend using AMD FX & R9 16 gig of mem. two HD drives and two SSD drives. It smoked the Mac Pro, using both Final Cut Pro & Photoshop. Folks use your brains other then for a hat or hoodie!
  • Reply 52 of 65
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,577moderator
    The article states the 9.7" iPad pro comes in 32, 64, and 256GB storage configurations.  It's actually 32, 128, and 256GB configurations.
  • Reply 53 of 65
    croprcropr Posts: 1,090member
    genovelle said:
    AI2xxx said:
    You didn't bother clicking on the article, so I'll wait until you do, that way you can eat your words.

    For productivity, iOS is not vastly superior to Windows. I'd like to see you running software such as Siemens NX in touch mode on an iPad Pro, something a Surface Pro 4 can handle.
    Why do you need a file system when all docs are available in iCloud or Dropbox? If apps are designed properly there is no need for a track pad. That is for desktop apps which means their potential is being limited. 
    2 examples where a decent file manager is absolutely needed:
     - I own a company that develops apps for companies.  A customer of mine, who has a chemical plant, asked me to develop an app on iPad to monitior a production unit, so he could see production figures + alarms.  The controlling unit of the production plant had an internal file system where the figures/alarms were life available. Because of the continuously changing nature of the production data and the alarms, the app had to access the data directly from the controlling unit (and not via an intermediate cloud service). Due to the lack of a file manager on a iPad, I had to develop a small file manager functionality in the app itself, making the iOS version roughly 60% more expensive than the Android version, without any added value.  Eventually the customer decided to develop an Android version only.
     - I am living in Belgium and I frequently travel abroad (France, Netherlands, UK) for professional reasons, meaning that a few times a month I have no access to Wifi but only a very expensive 3G/4G connection.  If I don't have my files locally on my machine(whatever it is), I am lost. Downloading a single file from a cloud service (iCloud, Dropbox, Google Drive, ...) to an iPad is easy, but syncing a few 100 files is an absolute nightmare.
    I would like to add that I find an iPad is a great device, but I cannot see it as a PC replacement due to the iOS restrictions   

    cnocbui
  • Reply 54 of 65
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,577moderator
    A-thought said:
    AI2xxx said:

    Typical troll comment.

    Where does it say the iPad Pro outperforms the Surface Pro 4? Maybe I'm stupid, but I see the words "strong price/performance competitor". Perhaps you'd like to explain your lack in reading comprehension skills to us?

    Windows on a tablet is a joke, and iOS is vastly superior. Android is already garbage for tablet optimized Apps but even Windows tops it as the worst tablet OS around. 
    You didn't bother clicking on the article, so I'll wait until you do, that way you can eat your words.

    For productivity, iOS is not vastly superior to Windows. I'd like to see you running software such as Siemens NX in touch mode on an iPad Pro, something a Surface Pro 4 can handle.
    Nicely said. But don't think you'll convince an Apple devotee. I've tried, they live in their own world. 

    This is a group of people that watch the release of the iPad Pro in 2015, with its chief differentiator being a pic of the planet Jupiter on its screen and the tag line "The biggest thing in iPad since iPad!" Then it comes out 6 months later in a 9.7" form factor (smaller even than an 11" surface 3), and none of them see a systemic flaw in this "iPad Pro, the biggest thing in iPad since iPad,!.. but it's also smaller" direction. They won't see confusion on Apple's part, because they see what they want to see. 

    Glitzy consumer market and and hollywood types sporting gold blinged-out watches is one thing. Enterprise is where the real world works. Entirely different set of rules, and IMO Apple is using a shotgun approach to try and penetrate it with any significance. But enterprise doesn't want your walled garden; it wants options. They'll walk out of your garden that is designed so you can take a cut of every seed.

    Education is about to begin for Apple and its blind supporters. 
    That's an interesting take on the situation, until you see the uptake of Macs within IBM.  You know, the company that invented the PC.  They offer their workers either a Windows PC or a Mac and the majority are choosing Macs.  The company has indicated that the cost to administer, support, maintain Macs is much cheaper than PCs.  So, first point, comparing Wndows machines only to iPads is disingenuous, as Apple also makes Macs, which are in many contexts the appropriate machine to compare against a Windows machine.

    Second point, look where iPads are being used.  Out at the edge of the enterprise, by mobile workforces and by those who interface with customers.  This is where the tablet form factor shines, and nobody comes close to Apple in perfecting the table form factor.  As another poster stated, just a few posts back,

    "Windows Enthusiasts compare max spec Surface against one model iPad. The rest of the world compares iPad and Surface on price, ease of use, mobility, usability, practicality, resale value, build quality, reputation, and brand image. Oh - and apps, security, reliability, personal satisfaction..."

    The iPad, and specifically the iPad Pro, is not designed to do the same work that a PC traditionally did.  Those who are suggesting the iPad Pro is a poor replacement for a PC are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.  The tablet form factor has its own destiny, which will take on many, but not all the tasks of a PC, while enabling new forms of work and productivity that PCs cannot accommodate.  When Apple gets on stage and suggests the iPad can replace many of the older PCs out there, the company is not suggesting the iPad can do everything those PC 'can' do, but rather it's suggesting the iPad can accommodate that subset of PC tasks those PCs are actually being used for by a significant portion of their owners.  While also enabling users to be more mobile, more secure, and take advantage of a new form of computing.
    edited March 2016 roundaboutnowbrakken
  • Reply 55 of 65
    AI2xxxAI2xxx Posts: 38member
    davygee said:
    AI2xxx said:
    Nope.

    GFXBench 3.0 - Manhattan Offscreen:

    iPad Pro 12.9 (Metal) - 5017 Frames (80.9 FPS)
    iPad Pro 9.7 (Metal) - 3117 Frames (51.1 FPS)
    iPad Air 2 (Metal) - 2695 Frames (43.8 FPS)

    Source: https://gfxbench.com/result.jsp
    I have never understood the need to show Offscreen results for GFXBench in discussions like these.  If we are wanting to show real world cases for each product, then we need to only take into consideration the Onscreen results.  Seeing as the larger Pro has to run at a larger screen resolution, the frames take a hit, se below:

    GFXBench 3.0 - Manhattan Onscreen:

    iPad Pro 12.9 (Metal) - 2147 Frames (34.6 FPS)
    iPad Pro 9.7 (Metal) - 2219 Frames (35.8 FPS)
    iPad Air 2 (Metal) - 1910 Frames (30.8 FPS)

    The new iPad Pro 9.7 comes out ahead due to the smaller screen/resolution.
    Offscreen reflects the SoC's true performance. GPU computing can be (and is) done offscreen for certain tasks. Not everything is rendered (or has to be rendered) at a device's native resolution.
  • Reply 56 of 65
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    AppleInsider said:

    ... to domestic industries--including pharmaceutical giant Eli Lilly, which equipped 15,000 field-based personnel with iPads internationally, and announced an initiative to eliminate laptops entirely and upgrade its U.S. field sales teams with iPad Pro models.
    This is a perfect example of an ideal use for iPads. I imagine those 15,000 field based personnel are actually sales people making presentations to doctors and pharmacists who only have a few minute free time. The iPad is the perfect device for this.

    People who need a full computer shouldn't try to replace it with an iPad, although there are probably many people out there who have a full computer but don't really need one and would be perfectly happy with only an iPad. 

    I'm one of those people who needs a full computer to do my work but I also have an iPad for less demanding computing. It isn't really that difficult to figure out. People should use the tool that is best suited for their unique needs at any given time.
    brakkenspheric
  • Reply 57 of 65
    A-thought said:
    AI2xxx said:
    You didn't bother clicking on the article, so I'll wait until you do, that way you can eat your words.

    For productivity, iOS is not vastly superior to Windows. I'd like to see you running software such as Siemens NX in touch mode on an iPad Pro, something a Surface Pro 4 can handle.
    Nicely said. But don't think you'll convince an Apple devotee. I've tried, they live in their own world. 

    This is a group of people that watch the release of the iPad Pro in 2015, with its chief differentiator being a pic of the planet Jupiter on its screen and the tag line "The biggest thing in iPad since iPad!" Then it comes out 6 months later in a 9.7" form factor (smaller even than an 11" surface 3), and none of them see a systemic flaw in this "iPad Pro, the biggest thing in iPad since iPad,!.. but it's also smaller" direction. They won't see confusion on Apple's part, because they see what they want to see. 

    Glitzy consumer market and and hollywood types sporting gold blinged-out watches is one thing. Enterprise is where the real world works. Entirely different set of rules, and IMO Apple is using a shotgun approach to try and penetrate it with any significance. But enterprise doesn't want your walled garden; it wants options. They'll walk out of your garden that is designed so you can take a cut of every seed.

    Education is about to begin for Apple and its blind supporters. 
    I keep hearing about Enterprise and how it's the bees knees but nobody really cares and then when people, like you, say that Apple will fail, they succeed and we get years and years of screeds from haters about how Apple doing it wrong and so on while Apple still takes home most of the market's money and still nobody really cares about how much you declare that Apple will get its comeuppance or how Apple will be educated. Remember the iPhone? Apple was supposed to get an education there. What did they learn? That the haters have no clue. That's why haters can't seem to stay in their lane. So worried about what apple's doing that they seek out Apple to throw shade at Apple doing things their way. 


    edited March 2016
    image.gif 1002.3K
  • Reply 58 of 65
    A-thought said:
    Nicely said. But don't think you'll convince an Apple devotee. I've tried, they live in their own world. 

    This is a group of people that watch the release of the iPad Pro in 2015, with its chief differentiator being a pic of the planet Jupiter on its screen and the tag line "The biggest thing in iPad since iPad!" Then it comes out 6 months later in a 9.7" form factor (smaller even than an 11" surface 3), and none of them see a systemic flaw in this "iPad Pro, the biggest thing in iPad since iPad,!.. but it's also smaller" direction. They won't see confusion on Apple's part, because they see what they want to see. 

    Glitzy consumer market and and hollywood types sporting gold blinged-out watches is one thing. Enterprise is where the real world works. Entirely different set of rules, and IMO Apple is using a shotgun approach to try and penetrate it with any significance. But enterprise doesn't want your walled garden; it wants options. They'll walk out of your garden that is designed so you can take a cut of every seed.

    Education is about to begin for Apple and its blind supporters. 
    I keep hearing about Enterprise and how it's the bees knees but nobody really cares and then when people, like you, say that Apple will fail, they succeed and we get years and years of screeds from haters about how Apple doing it wrong and so on while Apple still takes home most of the market's money and still nobody really cares about how much you declare that Apple will get its comeuppance or how Apple will be educated. Remember the iPhone? Apple was supposed to get an education there. What did they learn? That the haters have no clue. That's why haters can't seem to stay in their lane. So worried about what apple's doing that they seek out Apple to throw shade at Apple doing things their way. 


    Whenever people mention how Apple "fails" in Enterprise, I have to think that Apple, one of the most successful Enterprises on the planet, must be successful in Enterprise for their own needs. How do they do it? I don't really know, but I imagine they have that "where the real world works" thing pretty well figured out.
  • Reply 59 of 65
    brakkenbrakken Posts: 687member
    jzone said:
    brakken said:
    Yes. And one day ms will resurge to its natural position as God Boredom Technology and everyone will love being screwed again! Yay!

    Windows Enthusiasts compare max spec Surface against one model iPad. The rest of the world compares iPad and Surface on price, ease of use, mobility, usability, practicality, resale value, build quality, reputation, and brand image. Oh - and apps, security, reliability, personal satisfaction, services, free services that don't suddenly cost money, and an executive team that makes an effort in the fields of environmental protection, recycling, working conditions in foreign countries, renewable resources, and human dignity and basic rights.

    And double oh, a company that forces the ultra-corrupt US govt to adhere to its own constitution.

    So you are right, DED right, that there's no competition. It is simply an error that you reached the wrong conclusion. Apple has no real competition at all.

    Good luck with future trolling endeavours. 
    I use a company issued ipad air 2, and have used a company issued ipad since the ipad 2. The former factor is physically pleasing, and very futuristic. The operating system has never been great for productivity. For the last 4 years we have developed workarounds at our company and, up until recently when we went through a massive back system overhaul just to support the limitations of ios since the majority of our field teams no longer have desktop access at the workcenters, we would (and sometimes still do) have frustratingly find a PC to finish work, training, or ceritfications. So when the surface products came out I bought those for my personal and my family business use because I don't have the money that my company has to support everything that you have to do backend to support apples business experement. I've been using office, files systems, side by side multitasking, etc for years now on a tablet. I dusted off my old surface 2 8.2 Rt yesterday and sold it for $200 because I don't need it anymore and it still does more than the ipad pro minus the the pencil. I look at it as Apple is a prius, and there are other vehicles. Apple will do most of what people want it to do and look cool, but if you drive a prius everyday for work, we'll you just want to own a truck so you can tackle anything and don't have to worry about it!
    I completely see your point! Thanks for detailing your position, I appreciate it.
    My irritation wih ms erupted with 8 - it was like ms wilfully took the worst aspects of iOS and hid the best parts of Windows: tiles no accessibility, especially on a desktop, and how does one interact with a touch-oriented system without a touch screen, or even a scratch-pad or mouse? Ridiculous!

    I was thrilled when 10 was announced as restoring the strengths of Windows, but I've had nothing but trouble. And then there's all the data sharing ms built into 10 for Cortana and to socialise Windows support. It's like ms decided to do anything it liked without forethought of the customer. Again.

    My point is this: there are currently 600mil old PCs out there, and a lot of people have no need for the vital business needs that you, and many like you, have. I'm one of them, and Apple is placing the iPad in that market. 

    As for enterprise, I've watched Apple move conservatively and deliberate into new markets repeatedly for fifteen years. They've only just established deals with IBM and Cisco recently, so I fully expect them to begin providing different solutions that work. Development takes time, especially if it's done right.

    Experiment? Sure! There must be a better way. And as the ARM chips become more powerful, they'll be able to support more functions, too. For people like me, possibly billions of us eventually, iOS is not only sufficient, it's preferable. And that's the point Apple is making with iPad, and where Windows/Intel seem unable to execute. 
    radarthekatspheric
  • Reply 60 of 65
    why-why- Posts: 305member
    What was the tagline Apple used for the new iPad? I'd watch the keynote again but I'm too tired
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