Will Apple's 9.7" iPad Pro take a chunk out of Microsoft Windows?

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  • Reply 61 of 87
    I wouldn't pay them a dime. The ecosystem and massive market should be motivation enough.

    Apple's biggest problem in trying to bring full fat Applications such as Photoshop and AutoCAD to the iPad is the price of Apps (note the difference between Applications and Apps) most people are used to paying less that $20 for an App and Adobe and the other developers are used to getting $200+ for their Applications.no matter how big the iPad market is, if the they are only going to get a fraction of the income they wont do it - and that is without even considering the lack of memory and processing power of the devices it is doubtful users would have the same smooth experience they currently on enjoy on Windows or Mac desktop, or laptop for that matter.
    That's a valid point , but... if you have a different business model ...

    Read Serifs Affinty Designer and Photo blog - they had full versions running on an iPad Air a while back. It needs optimising but these are full versions and they intend to bring them to iPad eventually.

    Here's a brief video clip,of designed on iPad Air.



    Now designer and photo are fully featured apps with most of the festered of PhotoShop and Illustrator but only cost (UK) £35 each on Mac.

    I have various other design apps such as iDraw, TouchDraw and iDesign. Whilst not quite as full featured as Designer, they do do a lot and have been updated quite regularly.
  • Reply 62 of 87
    foggyhill said:
    People say this but Mac itself hasn't taken a big bite out of windows as of yet. A Mac tablet would likely not do much in the market. What Apple needs is worthwhile software for iOS and maybe something more in the file management department.
    Really, file management, something like Document5 (and 10+ other similar apps?).
    In businesses, most documents are not stored locally anyway, so not sure why you'd actually need local file management.
    Seems people are stuck in some kind of weird 1990s mindset about workflows.

    Apple has taken a big bite of the corporate world but not by replacing desktops, but by flooding in in the form of Iphones and Ipads.
    There is a ton of work done with those devices these days.


    yes our local council flooded in iPads, gave them to field workers, who use them for email and then they make notes on paper which secretaries back in the office type up on desktops - your rose tinted view of an Apple future isn't as rosy as you may think!
    cnocbui
  • Reply 63 of 87
    fallenjt said:
    Microsoft tablet is a joke for the price especially now their Windows 10 with backdoor was built for China government. US Gov might already had that Win10Gov version installed in the tablets.
    I'm glad that I refused to use Windows devices at home in the last 6 years.

    I bet Microsoft were really worried about you not using Windows, must have kept them all awake at night!
    cnocbuicurt12singularity
  • Reply 64 of 87
    chia said:
    appex said:
    "Will Apple's 9.7" iPad Pro take a chunk out of Microsoft Windows?"

    No way. For that Apple needs a Mac tablet.
    Keep banging your Mac tablet drum in article after article and I'll keep reminding you it exists already: The Modbook.

    www.modbook.com

    If you really needed one for your work to be worthwhile  you would have got one already.

    OS X without the touch optimisations is a niche market which is probably why Apple have left it to the Modbook company.
    Apple has already looked at making OS X touch compatible, the result was iOS.

    Touch isn't important for even the majority of Windows users:  at best, 10 to 20 percent of Windows devices being sold have a touchscreen.

    I can speak from personal experience.  I have been dabbling with a Windows 10 tablet with a 7 inch screen and it's a misery to use.
    Most applications are the "non-touch" type, it's frustrating attempting to tap tiny window buttons and icons in an attempt to get anything done.
    You're forced to connect a keyboard and mouse, thus making your touchscreen irrelevant and rendering your tablet into a desktop computer with a 7 inch screen.
    I suspect this is how things will continue in the Windows world, most application developers will think "No point making extra effort to make my app touch capable on Windows when it works anyway on the device and most Windows users don't use touch".

    you really miss the point, I wouldn't be without touch on a Win 10 device, makes scooting around the web and through documents so fast - it's taking off in so many places
  • Reply 65 of 87
    dewme said:
    Yet another weak filler article parroting the same old song and dance about the iPad not being a PC replacement, with a little diss on the lack of 4GB RAM in the 9.7" iPad Pro mixed in for chum effect.

    Apple already has a full product line called MacBook and MacBook Pro that have been filling the needs of PC users for decades. They also have the iPad product line that fills a different need for lovers of the tablet form factor and touch based user experience. It's called product mix and each contribution to the mix fills a particular need and price point. If Apple did not have a tablet then the technopress would be clamoring loudly for Apple to build one to prevent the inevitable rendezvous with Doom that it has narrowly escaped from despite all evidence from "experts" who see it as imminent for the past 20 years. 

    Ford Motor Company builds the Mustang sports car and it also builds the F150 pickup truck. Two different product line for two different needs. They have some overlapping use cases, like hauling your lazy ass to and from work, but others that just don't make sense (sorry El Camino and Ranchero fans) like hauling gravel in a vehicle with a wimpy car suspension. Why aren't the gear head media outlets beating the drum for Ford to build a version of the Mustang with a cargo bed and half ton carrying capacity? It's technically feasible. I suppose if Ford was so far behind the competition that it could only build one vehicle it might decide to build a hybrid car-truck, i.e., Caruck, just to make a little bit of money for its shareholders. Maybe it would be called the Ford Surface Caruck GT 150 because it runs on top of surfaces, as opposed to sub-surface, which would make it a Ford Subsurface Caruck GT 150. Maybe offer a magnetic bed cap/cover and bolt-in seating that allow passengers to ride in the bed - at an additional cost of course. This would make the Caruck convertible into something resembling a car, except for the wonky rear seat experience for those consigned to ride in the back on the cheap plastic bolt-in seats under a magnetically attached cover that may fall off at any time. 

    the Australians build them!
  • Reply 66 of 87
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,562member
    chia said:
    Keep banging your Mac tablet drum in article after article and I'll keep reminding you it exists already: The Modbook.

    www.modbook.com

    If you really needed one for your work to be worthwhile  you would have got one already.

    OS X without the touch optimisations is a niche market which is probably why Apple have left it to the Modbook company.
    Apple has already looked at making OS X touch compatible, the result was iOS.

    Touch isn't important for even the majority of Windows users:  at best, 10 to 20 percent of Windows devices being sold have a touchscreen.

    I can speak from personal experience.  I have been dabbling with a Windows 10 tablet with a 7 inch screen and it's a misery to use.
    Most applications are the "non-touch" type, it's frustrating attempting to tap tiny window buttons and icons in an attempt to get anything done.
    You're forced to connect a keyboard and mouse, thus making your touchscreen irrelevant and rendering your tablet into a desktop computer with a 7 inch screen.
    I suspect this is how things will continue in the Windows world, most application developers will think "No point making extra effort to make my app touch capable on Windows when it works anyway on the device and most Windows users don't use touch".

    you really miss the point, I wouldn't be without touch on a Win 10 device, makes scooting around the web and through documents so fast - it's taking off in so many places
    Cool!

    I'll bet that's why you came all the way over to AI to tell us.

    Since the iPad is part of the iOS family, I"m guessing that Apple has a lot more ability to push iOS onto the desktop than MS has pushing Win 10 to mobile, and while all that is happening, I'm still hearing that many potential users are quite turned off by how MS is both marketing and monetizing Win 10 to existing users. I would add in that OEM's really aren't seeing that big upgrade push to new hardware either, but you know, Surface rox!

    That's probably why I'll be staying on Win 7 until end times for the few applications that I need x86, which will certainly be beyond the official Windows 7 deprecation date.
    nolamacguy
  • Reply 67 of 87
    mad1at35 said:

    Apple's biggest problem in trying to bring full fat Applications such as Photoshop and AutoCAD to the iPad is the price of Apps (note the difference between Applications and Apps) most people are used to paying less that $20 for an App and Adobe and the other developers are used to getting $200+ for their Applications.no matter how big the iPad market is, if the they are only going to get a fraction of the income they wont do it - and that is without even considering the lack of memory and processing power of the devices it is doubtful users would have the same smooth experience they currently on enjoy on Windows or Mac desktop, or laptop for that matter.
    That's a valid point , but... if you have a different business model ...

    Read Serifs Affinty Designer and Photo blog - they had full versions running on an iPad Air a while back. It needs optimising but these are full versions and they intend to bring them to iPad eventually.

    Here's a brief video clip,of designed on iPad Air.



    Now designer and photo are fully featured apps with most of the festered of PhotoShop and Illustrator but only cost (UK) £35 each on Mac.

    I have various other design apps such as iDraw, TouchDraw and iDesign. Whilst not quite as full featured as Designer, they do do a lot and have been updated quite regularly.

    I have seen good apps that do a similar job, indeed on the PC I have regularly tested Gimp as an alternate to PS, it has gotten closer, but in the end, cant do the workflow piece that I need - I know Serif's software, but I wouldn't class it as a PS alternative.
  • Reply 68 of 87
    SteeleSteele Posts: 2member
    mad1at35 said:
    There are many ifs and buts with the line of reasoning, but part of the problem with this utopian vision is that parts of iCloud are problematic, unreliable or a bit clunky. It needs more work.

    Still Microsoft can't crow too much, OneDrive is poor and trying to download updates can be variable. The business side is much better but then it cost, a lot!

    The best example of a cloud service is Dropbox. It really is EXCELLENT. I had an inclusive OneDrive subscription with office 365 but chose to continue paying for Dropbox. Both Apple and MS should take a look a that service.

    The other issue with cloud services is that it relies on a great internet connection. It's okay if you have 50Mbit, 100Mbit or even gigabit connections. In the UK that's a big variable IF! Where I live I'm lucky to get 3Mbit down so setting up my wife's new iPad from an iCloud backup took hours upon hours. Send she didn't have that much stuff. And sets downloading music. My new 128gb iPad mini is still going now!

    Even if you have a good internet connection it may not help. At work I compared an FTTC and ADSL connection. Speed test shows that the FTTC is over two times faster than the ADSL connection (55Mbit Down, 7 Mbit up v 22Mbit down v 1Mbit up), with similar latency on both.

    Durng the day on the FTTC connection any access to Apples CDS is limited to 150Kbps - 300Kbps, whereas the ADSL is chugging along at an average 2.5Mbps! Joke! During the evening the FTTC is upto a nice 4-6Mbps.

    And it happens on three other FTTC connections I have tried. The ISP's even admit traffic shaping!

    So until the Internet is much much better in every country (not just Korea and Spain), and ISP's improve their core network, then forget it.

    Apple really need to include a local document file system in iOS 10, a bit like how Dropbox works on OS X etc



    Couldn't they simply add that functionality to iCloud? I think it would be nice for iCloud to be more like Dropbox.
    iCloud Drive and Send via iCloud. There's also sync via wifi to iTunes and USB sync. Then there's iCloud Drive in OS X. 

    What's missing (compared to Dropbox)? Both are contained file systems that offer sharing (sort of). 

  • Reply 69 of 87
    I hate it when blog writers complain about the lack of App and web development tools on the iPad.

    Im a web developer, and there is not a single time that I don't need to run multiple build tools and servers in terminal, then switch to my IDE, then switch to a browser, test and debug there... Rinse and repeat... 

    Absolutely no app or web developer I know would ever want to work on an iPad, other than to fix the occasional error when on the go... But even then, they most probably would have their laptop with them.
    bb-15
  • Reply 70 of 87
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,209moderator
    cnocbui said:
    Are the iPad Pros going to get legions of Macbook pro and Air users to dump them for iPads?  If the answer is no, then the same answer applies to the question of taking a chunk out of Windows.  iOS is not a desktop OS replacement for people who need/want a desktop OS.
    The active Windows audience (over 1 billion people) contains a large portion of people who never needed a desktop system but years ago there was no suitable alternative or they weren't aware of alternatives. Microsoft Word and Excel only arrived on the iPad 2 years ago so someone who relied on that software would have had no choice but to go with a desktop/laptop system.

    While there may be a portion of Mac users like this too, most Macs in use now are recent models and were bought instead of an iOS device given that iOS devices were available at the time of purchase.

    There's a portion of the Windows audience that can be convinced to move to an iPad. It's not going to be the whole Windows market but a portion of 1 billion users or more is worth targeting. Apple said over 600 million PCs are over 5 years old at the last event.

    Apple may have saturated the tablet market already, the sales figures have gone up and started to decline as people haven't upgraded:

    http://www.statista.com/statistics/269915/global-apple-ipad-sales-since-q3-2010/

    They've sold over 300 million iPads in total. Microsoft will have sold about 10-15 million Surface tablets total:

    http://www.phonearena.com/news/6-million-Microsoft-Surface-tablets-reportedly-shipped-in-2015_id77960

    There are more Windows tablets than just Microsoft's Surface and some hybrids have tablet capability but the total is still unlikely to be close to iPad units.

    The iPad is a desktop/laptop replacement for some people but as it stands just now, it can't replace a desktop/laptop for everyone. A Microsoft Surface could replace any similarly powered desktop/laptop. However, it's one thing to have the capability and another to offer a compelling experience at a reasonable price. Given that around 300 million PCs are sold every year, Microsoft's Surface so far hasn't been a compelling enough option.

    The 9.7" iPad is clearly a compelling option, given the sales to date. It would help if the accessories were a bit less expensive because although the iPad Pro starts at $599 now, the keyboard + Pencil adds another $248. PCs have average selling prices around $500 or less so there's a large portion of the Windows audience cut out based solely on the price (this applies to the Surface Pro too, which can also be expensive).

    Some people need a bigger display so allowing support for wireless extended displays, perhaps non-mouse trackpad input and software development capability would open the iPad up to more people, including students, some of whom would only be able to afford either a tablet or a desktop/laptop.
    nolamacguybestkeptsecret
  • Reply 71 of 87
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    I wouldn't pay them a dime. The ecosystem and massive market should be motivation enough.

    Apple's biggest problem in trying to bring full fat Applications such as Photoshop and AutoCAD to the iPad is the price of Apps (note the difference between Applications and Apps) most people are used to paying less that $20 for an App and Adobe and the other developers are used to getting $200+ for their Applications.no matter how big the iPad market is, if the they are only going to get a fraction of the income they wont do it - and that is without even considering the lack of memory and processing power of the devices it is doubtful users would have the same smooth experience they currently on enjoy on Windows or Mac desktop, or laptop for that matter.
    i think its an assumption that apple is trying to bring full fat applications such as photoshop to the ipad, and not a given. what sort of photoshop work would i want to do on an ipad (car) instead of on a mac (truck)?

    perhaps adobe would like to make this happen to chase growth, but i dont see why apple would be -- apple still sells trucks.
  • Reply 72 of 87
    auxioauxio Posts: 1,975member
    foggyhill said:
    Really, file management, something like Document5 (and 10+ other similar apps?).
    In businesses, most documents are not stored locally anyway, so not sure why you'd actually need local file management.
    Seems people are stuck in some kind of weird 1990s mindset about workflows.

    Apple has taken a big bite of the corporate world but not by replacing desktops, but by flooding in in the form of Iphones and Ipads.
    There is a ton of work done with those devices these days.


    yes our local council flooded in iPads, gave them to field workers, who use them for email and then they make notes on paper which secretaries back in the office type up on desktops - your rose tinted view of an Apple future isn't as rosy as you may think!
    And this is the very reason Microsoft still has marketshare: the people who are too old to, or can't be bothered to, change their ways.  And I'm speaking from office experience (in tech companies no less) where people would rather spend inordinate amounts of time doing things the one way they know how (likely the first way they learned how) than to try and explore alternatives or find more efficient ways to do things.  We'll see what happens when that generation leaves the workplace and is replaced by those who grew up using touch-based devices... it's already visible in small, owner-run businesses where there's incentive to be more efficient/minimize costs.
    edited March 2016
  • Reply 73 of 87
    chia said:
    mad1at35 said:
    The other issue with cloud services is that it relies on a great internet connection. It's okay if you have 50Mbit, 100Mbit or even gigabit connections. In the UK that's a big variable IF! Where I live I'm lucky to get 3Mbit down so setting up my wife's new iPad from an iCloud backup took hours upon hours. Send she didn't have that much stuff. And sets downloading music. My new 128gb iPad mini is still going now!

    Even if you have a good internet connection it may not help. At work I compared an FTTC and ADSL connection. Speed test shows that the FTTC is over two times faster than the ADSL connection (55Mbit Down, 7 Mbit up v 22Mbit down v 1Mbit up), with similar latency on both.

    Durng the day on the FTTC connection any access to Apples CDS is limited to 150Kbps - 300Kbps, whereas the ADSL is chugging along at an average 2.5Mbps! Joke! During the evening the FTTC is upto a nice 4-6Mbps.

    And it happens on three other FTTC connections I have tried. The ISP's even admit traffic shaping!

    So until the Internet is much much better in every country (not just Korea and Spain), and ISP's improve their core network, then forget it.

    Apple really need to include a local document file system in iOS 10, a bit like how Dropbox works on OS X etc
    Just where are you getting your figures for the UK?

    89% of the UK premises can have access to at least 24 Mbit download broadband speeds:
    https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/local/index.php

    I've been using Dropbox and iCloud/MobileME since the days I had an 8 Mbit download speed.  I've not encountered the problems you've been having, maybe there's something misconfigured in your router.  They even work well when I am out and about with 4G on my iPhone.

    Are you using large 100 megabyte documents?

    Oh, and are you using iCloud Drive on your iOS 9 device?
    I am using the Internet in the Midlands in the UK. My figures come from real testing in both town and country. At home our cabinet may be FTTC enabled but we are too far away from it. But elsewhere I've tried the cabinets are close by.

    Many super fast  FTTC connections are heavily speed shaped at certain times, especially to Apple CDS and Microsoft servers. I tried multiple FTTC business connections in a high speed area and they are shaped down during the working day and almost unlimited in the evening. The ADSL's on one can in the same area are not so heavily shaped but more shaped in the other. For shaped read heavily speed limited.

    I spoke to the ISP's concerned and they openly admit (referring to the T&C's) that they deliberately, and heavily, limit speeds to many content delivery systems such as Apple, Microsoft, Netflix, etc, at certain times. So if you are running a big OS or app update (read cloud restore) be prepared to wait wait wait.

    My testing shows that supposed Business Grade connections (various providers) during the day are slower getting stuff from Apple and Microsoft than my rubbish 3Mbps home ADSL. Yet running speed tests shows full-speed ahead. This seems to be a deliberate ploy to make us blame the source not the provider. I only discovered this by having access to 15 connections of different types, on different exchanges and through different cabs.


  • Reply 74 of 87
    chia said:
    mad1at35 said:
    The other issue with cloud services is that it relies on a great internet connection. It's okay if you have 50Mbit, 100Mbit or even gigabit connections. In the UK that's a big variable IF! Where I live I'm lucky to get 3Mbit down so setting up my wife's new iPad from an iCloud backup took hours upon hours. Send she didn't have that much stuff. And sets downloading music. My new 128gb iPad mini is still going now!

    Even if you have a good internet connection it may not help. At work I compared an FTTC and ADSL connection. Speed test shows that the FTTC is over two times faster than the ADSL connection (55Mbit Down, 7 Mbit up v 22Mbit down v 1Mbit up), with similar latency on both.

    Durng the day on the FTTC connection any access to Apples CDS is limited to 150Kbps - 300Kbps, whereas the ADSL is chugging along at an average 2.5Mbps! Joke! During the evening the FTTC is upto a nice 4-6Mbps.

    And it happens on three other FTTC connections I have tried. The ISP's even admit traffic shaping!

    So until the Internet is much much better in every country (not just Korea and Spain), and ISP's improve their core network, then forget it.

    Apple really need to include a local document file system in iOS 10, a bit like how Dropbox works on OS X etc
    Just where are you getting your figures for the UK?

    89% of the UK premises can have access to at least 24 Mbit download broadband speeds:
    https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/local/index.php

    I've been using Dropbox and iCloud/MobileME since the days I had an 8 Mbit download speed.  I've not encountered the problems you've been having, maybe there's something misconfigured in your router.  They even work well when I am out and about with 4G on my iPhone.

    Are you using large 100 megabyte documents?

    Oh, and are you using iCloud Drive on your iOS 9 device?

    Interesting statement that 89% bit - we have 5 sites and only one of them is capable of exceeding 20Mb download
  • Reply 75 of 87
    I purchased an iPad Pro. The work flow increase in using the device with the pencil has been quite surprising. The device has great battery life and does nearly everything I need it do except the ability to make conventional phone calls. In fact, once Apple makes the watch capable of making phone calls independently, my plan is to get rid of the iPhone and go with the watch and iPad for my computing needs. 

    The Surface line of machines from Microsoft look nice but have a huge problem. The reliability is quite poor and far worse than the iPad. Even Paul Thurrott the ultimate Windows apologist has harsh criticism for Microsoft. 

    https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/microsoft-surface/64095/welcome-to-surfacegate

    Even if iOS is somewhat crippled compared to Windows, a dead machine gets no work done. 

    My biggest issue with iOS isn't with the file system. It's the inability to move data to external storage rapidly without having to rely on a computer and the use of iTunes. 

    If Apple could build or at least allow a third party to build a lighting memory stick that enables file transfers quickly, I would be quite pleased. 

    Connecting a pair of iPad pros through the Lightning port to create an extended display would also be nice. 

    It will likely happen one day, but the wait is getting painful. 
  • Reply 76 of 87
    josu said:
    Why pay Adobe? Just buy a competing image editor developer and fabricate a powerful first party image editing suite. Then leave the ball in Adobe's court to compete or be left high and dry.
    Or buy Adobe and AutoCAD for that matter, if its for money, they can.
    True, Apple could just buy Adobe but I don't think the SEC would allow that. It would give apple a serious advantage to cripple competitors.
  • Reply 77 of 87
    fallenjt said:
    Microsoft tablet is a joke for the price especially now their Windows 10 with backdoor was built for China government. US Gov might already had that Win10Gov version installed in the tablets.
    I'm glad that I refused to use Windows devices at home in the last 6 years.

    I bet Microsoft were really worried about you not using Windows, must have kept them all awake at night!
    Well, here's an add that Microsoft emailed the other day.



    They seem to be shakin a bit. Notice, used MacBook or surface. Not used laptop or used computer. No, to get the discount, you need to bring a Mac to the chopping block or another surface tablet.
    bb-15
  • Reply 78 of 87
    chiachia Posts: 694member
    I can speak from personal experience.  I have been dabbling with a Windows 10 tablet with a 7 inch screen and it's a misery to use.
    Most applications are the "non-touch" type, it's frustrating attempting to tap tiny window buttons and icons in an attempt to get anything done.
    You're forced to connect a keyboard and mouse, thus making your touchscreen irrelevant and rendering your tablet into a desktop computer with a 7 inch screen.
    I suspect this is how things will continue in the Windows world, most application developers will think "No point making extra effort to make my app touch capable on Windows when it works anyway on the device and most Windows users don't use touch".

    you really miss the point, I wouldn't be without touch on a Win 10 device, makes scooting around the web and through documents so fast - it's taking off in so many places
    You've missed my point that I've found using Windows 10 touch frustratingly aggravating and hindering when trying to touch near microscopic buttons on screen with your fingers.  Difficult to scoot around the web at any speed when you have to hit a link several times, each time hoping the device would recognise your touch as being "on target".
    The better thought given to the touch interface design on iOS and even Android avoids that needless complication and aggravation.
    bb-15
  • Reply 79 of 87
    chiachia Posts: 694member

    chia said:
    Just where are you getting your figures for the UK?

    89% of the UK premises can have access to at least 24 Mbit download broadband speeds:
    https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/local/index.php

    Interesting statement that 89% bit - we have 5 sites and only one of them is capable of exceeding 20Mb download
    Maybe there's something about the selection of your five sites results in not being close to the necessary infrastructure?

    I suspect 99.9% of UK premises are too far away to be disturbed by aircraft takeoff noise.
    If I ran a car rental firm with 10 sites, 5 of which are next to an airport, I still wouldn't be questioning the accuracy of the 99.9% figure.
  • Reply 80 of 87
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    I wouldn't pay them a dime. The ecosystem and massive market should be motivation enough.

    Apple's biggest problem in trying to bring full fat Applications such as Photoshop and AutoCAD to the iPad is the price of Apps (note the difference between Applications and Apps) most people are used to paying less that $20 for an App and Adobe and the other developers are used to getting $200+ for their Applications.no matter how big the iPad market is, if the they are only going to get a fraction of the income they wont do it - and that is without even considering the lack of memory and processing power of the devices it is doubtful users would have the same smooth experience they currently on enjoy on Windows or Mac desktop, or laptop for that matter.
    Considering more and more big software is moving to a subscription because people are no longer ready to pay a huge amount up front for software, not sure how much of a problem that really is.

    The fact the mobile, non Intel market, is just to big to ignore now will also have a big impact.

    tmay
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