Tesla unveils more affordable Model 3, gives glimpse at Apple's future auto competition

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 117
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,213member
    sog35 said:

    So you want Apple to buy a company losing $10K per car? Or you believe an Apple owned Tesla wouldn't lose $10K per car?
    Buy Tesla and jack up the price to what it should be $45,000-$50,000

    Better plan is Apple should invest a few billion in Tesla and require them to use Apple's CarPlay interface.
    No. Tesla's not the only game in town. If Apple can't do their own then I think they should partner with BMW, not Tesla. Btw, Tim Cook met with BMW last year. As far as we know there have been no Apple meetings with Tesla.
  • Reply 22 of 117
    Chevy Bolt is a bigger deal than this Model 3. It's a full electric vehicle being made by a company that people think is run by "stupid 'murican rednecks".

    Tesla, a company that announced the Model 3 several years ago, and is supposed to be ahead of everyone else in technology, is going to get beat to market by GM. By over a year. When the rest of the car companies start building electrics Tesla will be finished. They literally have zero technology that everyone else doesn't already have.

    Musk was an idiot for wasting resources on that POS Model X and those useless Falcon Wing doors. He's more interested in flash than substance and he's going to pay for it. Should have ignored that vehicle altogether and put all that (wasted) effort into the Model 3 instead.
    rogifan_new
  • Reply 23 of 117
    sog35 said:
    Chevy Bolt is a bigger deal than this Model 3. It's a full electric vehicle being made by a company that people think is run by "stupid 'murican rednecks".

    Tesla, a company that announced the Model 3 several years ago, and is supposed to be ahead of everyone else in technology, is going to get beat to market by GM. By over a year. When the rest of the car companies start building electrics Tesla will be finished. They literally have zero technology that everyone else doesn't already have.

    Musk was an idiot for wasting resources on that POS Model X and those useless Falcon Wing doors. He's more interested in flash than substance and he's going to pay for it. Should have ignored that vehicle altogether and put all that (wasted) effort into the Model 3 instead.
    The Bolt looks like total crap and cost almost as much as the Model 3. Give me a break.

    The Model 3 already has 200,000 preorders.  How many does the Bolt have?  Must be very little because Chevy has not announced any pre-orders numbers.

    The Bolt looks like a Egg on 4 wheels and drives as slow as one.
    The Model 3 is faster than a BMW 3-series and looks amazing.

    Because Tesla fans are stupid and will spend $144K on a Model X that isn't even as well equipped as a Jeep Grand Cherokee, let alone something like a Range Rover SVR (which is in the same price range). Anyone who puts a deposit in a car that's 2 years away, IMO, is an idiot. Especially when the final specs/features aren't even known and with their horrible track record with delays.

    Have you ever actually driven a Tesla (Model S is only one people would reasonably have tried). Take away the blinding acceleration and you have a POS overpriced car with poor finish and build quality. Oh, but it has Ludicrous mode. That makes up for all the creature comforts it lacks. /S
    rogifan_newcalibb-15
  • Reply 24 of 117
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,157member
    Chevy Bolt is a bigger deal than this Model 3. It's a full electric vehicle being made by a company that people think is run by "stupid 'murican rednecks".

    Tesla, a company that announced the Model 3 several years ago, and is supposed to be ahead of everyone else in technology, is going to get beat to market by GM. By over a year. When the rest of the car companies start building electrics Tesla will be finished. They literally have zero technology that everyone else doesn't already have.

    Musk was an idiot for wasting resources on that POS Model X and those useless Falcon Wing doors. He's more interested in flash than substance and he's going to pay for it. Should have ignored that vehicle altogether and put all that (wasted) effort into the Model 3 instead.
    You have no idea what your talking about. You'll see Tesla still around and leading everyone else 10 years from now. Musk is no idiot.
    bobschlobISNot_Availablejustbobfnomadmac
  • Reply 25 of 117
    AI_liasAI_lias Posts: 306member
    Love this car. I know anything Ive comes up with won't be as good, based on the design of iPhone 6 and the latest stuff coming from Apple these days.
    Thankfully, no monster grill on the front-end, and all the other busy design language all car makers are using nowadays (looking in your direction Lexus, Toyota, even Honda (Civic).
    I also like the interior. That screen looks upgrade-able. Thank God they were not bought by Apple.
    justbobf
  • Reply 26 of 117
    schlack said:
    time for apple to pack up their car team and work on something else. the profitable side of this market is locked down for the foreseeable future.
    Fandroids also never complain that "Google needs more competition." On the other hand, they say Apple "needs competition." By this logic, maybe that's the reason Apple should compete with Tesla: so they'll have competition. Wouldn't you agree?
    rogifan_newcali
  • Reply 27 of 117
    kent909kent909 Posts: 711member
    Nice job Tesla
    edited April 2016 justbobfnomadmac
  • Reply 28 of 117
    irelandireland Posts: 17,684member
    sog35 said:
    Wow.

    Looks like the car Steve Jobs would have made.


    I'm not that fond of its looks—Apple wouldn't put out a car that looks like this. Has a cheesy look to me. Lacks originality of design and seems rather uninspired on the exterior. None of the Tesla's cars blow my hair back on the exterior. It looks like a number of cars already on the market. And that specific "T" design for the logo is God-awful. The technological achievements of their cars is impressive however.

    Throw a sprinkling of Mazda in here and you've got the basic exterior of a Model 3:



    Another car:


    edited April 2016 cali
  • Reply 29 of 117
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,035member
    A bit dramatic, but a few more things to consider before you pre-order.
    edited April 2016 bb-15
  • Reply 30 of 117
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    Seriously? Looks fugly to me. Especially the interior. Of course I know the kool-aid is strong with Tesla. I'll bet any money if this exact design was released by, say Toyota or GM people would be panning it. image
    Elon Musk Explained that this is the pre-production model. optimizations and design changes would be made in the future. If the display could be fit in the redesigned dashboard it would be extremely appealing other wise a great car nonetheless . IT's TESLA's IPhone Moment
    i read on the Verge from their coverage there talking to reps that the dash isnt expected to change much at all.
    bb-15
  • Reply 31 of 117
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,213member
    So basically everyone else just needs to quit and we all just need to buy Tesla's. Let me guess when Blackberry and Nokia ruled the world people said the same thing. Why is it that everyone needs competition but Tesla? And again if this exact design had been announced by Toyota or GM people would be ripping it to shreds and calling it ugly. And people say Apple kool-aid is strong...
    tallest skil
  • Reply 32 of 117
    sog35 said:

    Because Tesla fans are stupid and will spend $144K on a Model X that isn't even as well equipped as a Jeep Grand Cherokee, let alone something like a Range Rover SVR (which is in the same price range). Anyone who puts a deposit in a car that's 2 years away, IMO, is an idiot. Especially when the final specs/features aren't even known and with their horrible track record with delays.

    Have you ever actually driven a Tesla (Model S is only one people would reasonably have tried). Take away the blinding acceleration and you have a POS overpriced car with poor finish and build quality. Oh, but it has Ludicrous mode. That makes up for all the creature comforts it lacks. /S
    Why are you talking about the Model X?

    We are talking about the $35,000 Model 3.

    Everyone knows the Model X is an overpriced car made for a specific customer. 

    And why is putting down $1000 downpayment idiotic when you can get a 100% refund at anytime?  Put that $1000 in a zero-risk investment and you are lucky to get $10 in investment return.  So all these people are risking is $10.  Plus if they order early they have a very good chance of getting tax credits worth $7,500-$10,000.

    And maybe just maybe these 'idiots' understand that electric cars are far better for the environment than gas cars.

    Your irrational hate for Tesla is weird.

    You mentioned the 200,000 pre-orders the Model 3 had vs the unannounced Bolt pre-orders (which is a strawman anyway, since Chevy doesn't do pre-orders) to somehow imply the Model 3 is a better car. I countered that if people were stupid enough to buy a $144K Model X without even driving one, then there are obviously going to be lots of Tesla fanboys that would plunk down $1,000 to pre-order a Model 3. It has nothing to do with how good the Model 3 may or may not be, because none of the people ordering has a clue.

    Further, since the deposit is 100% refundable then none of those pre-orders has any commitment. So that makes them even less useful to judge demand since we have no idea how many will back out after seeing the Model 3 announcement (since over half of them ordered BEFORE they saw the car), how many will back out after waiting 12, 18, 24 months for the car, or how many will back out after seeing the final car and its actual price/features and options.

    Ordering early means nothing for tax credits. The initial Model 3's will be the higher-end models (like Tesla has also done in the past) so the people who decide they want to spend more will get their pre-orders before those that want to wait for the base $35K model. That is, if Tesla doesn't already hit their 200,000 vehicle limit by the time the Model 3 is released.

    Considering how poorly equipped the Model S and Model X are for their price points, what makes you think the Model 3 is suddenly going to be "fully loaded" when it debuts? Teslas existing cars are highly relevant to show us what the Model 3 will bring (fast acceleration, cheap interior, lack of features).


    Nothing irrational about my opinion since I work in the automotive engineering field. If you saw a Tesla the way I do (as a series of assembled components and sub-assemblies) you'd realize there's NOTHING special or unique about them. People act like they created some incredible machine that nobody else in the world knows how to.
    irelandmdriftmeyerbb-15
  • Reply 33 of 117
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,184member
    gfedor said:
    Nice car.

    But to say that $35,000 (or even $27,500 if lucky to get the credit) is a "car to be priced for the general public instead of rich sports and luxury car buyers" is way off the mark.

    I get that the technology is new and there is NRE to be recovered, and I get that the car is "cool", but until manufacturers (Tesla, GM, Toyota, Honda, etc. maybe even Apple) starts taking the basic electric motor train technology and adapting it to cars with less bells-n-whistles, none of these types of cars will be within the economy of the general public.

    With 3 or 4 models under its belt by now, I would have hoped Tesla would lead the way towards making a car that could start to take more hydrocarbon vehicles off the road.  Don't get me wrong, I think the car has lots of style and would love to have one myself, but $35k is still to rich for me.
    But how about 2-3 year old used Tesla 3 to buy? Price drops just driving off the dealer lot.  A used one could be in the $20,000 or less price range.  Older the price drops more.  This gets the car into lower income people's hands and people upgrade to the newest version.
    justbobf
  • Reply 34 of 117
    peter236peter236 Posts: 254member
    The thing is that Apple can't even compete with Samsung. Major players like BMW, Audi and China's BYD are way better car manufacturers.
  • Reply 35 of 117
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,184member
    sog35 said:
    smalm said:
    I'm not sure why anybody thinks Tesla can make a profit with a $35000 car when they don't know how to do it with a $75000 car...
    They won't be making a profit.

    But like Amazon as long as they keep growing revenue Wall Street and investors don't care.

    That's why I think its foolish for Apple to build a car. How the hell will they compete with companies like Tesla who are willing to lose $30k on each car they sell?
    Company's are losing money making Android phones while Apple is making more then 90% of the profits even though Android has 80% of the global market.  Do you really think Apple would sell cars at a loss?.  No they will sell them at a big profit and make a lot of money and people will buy them up.    They won't be cheap!!! 
  • Reply 36 of 117
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,230moderator
    dreyfus2 said:
    No idea if Apple will come up with something good, or anything at all. But if they do, it likely won't initially be in the entry-level price range.
    A large part of the cost at the entry level is the battery, which is estimated at $250/kWh just now. This would be $15k on an entry model. Tesla's Gigafactory is how Tesla plans to lower the price:

    http://www.streetinsider.com/Analyst+Comments/Jeffereis+Sees+1,000bps+of+GM+Tailwind+for+Tesla+(TSLA);+PT+Up+to+$365/10899606.html

    They aim to get the pack costs down by 70% with the factory.

    Apple will have to source batteries from somewhere too, they'll probably buy from Tesla's factory given that it's intended to be the largest supplier in the world.

    Tesla's prices were explained by Musk as due to the economies of scale. A startup can't go from nothing to competing with the biggest car manufacturers in the world overnight so they don't benefit from the cost savings on the production line. They had to build the Roadster first to appeal to people who would buy at a high price point so they'd have revenue to invest, then it was the SUV and premium Sedan and 3rd (Model 3), they target mass-market.

    Apple has the cash to be able to finance a mass-market vehicle from the outset. They could manufacturer a competitor to a model 3 at a lower price point with a higher scale (e.g 0.5-1 million units) at say $30k each using Gigafactory batteries. Cost to manufacture = $20k x 500,000 = $10b (Standard combustion car companies can sell cars at a profit under $15k retail). Tesla doesn't have that cash (they have $2.8b current assets and $2.8b current liabilities, the rest is long term assets), which is why they are taking preorders for a product that won't be available for over 1.5 years.

    Tesla isn't trying to be the only player in the market, they want as many car companies on electric as possible. Apple alone ordering 0.5m batteries from Tesla at say $100/kWh could give Tesla $3.5b with $1b profit once they get the manufacturing costs down.

    Buying Tesla out would be an option at ~$30b but Musk wouldn't want to sell it now that it's doing well:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-had-an-11-billion-deal-in-place-to-sell-tesla-to-google-in-2013-2015-4

    I could see Apple using a sub-brand for the car, which would have been easier buying an established one like Tesla. The Apple logo doesn't fit very well with a car:





    It depends on the materials and where they put it but something like the Titan codename would fit better. A company uses this already:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_Company
    Their old logo would have suited a car:



    The design with the large glass roof on the Model 3 seems like something Apple would do. Apple's in-car display layout would probably be much better. I'd expect they'd make a specific OS and UI for the vehicle that could perhaps be controlled via the steering wheel, e.g touchpad in the middle with the display behind the wheel. Not loads of buttons and levers like car companies tend to do. This could have the finger points show up on the display or just swipe between screens with the default being the speed. Swipe to get to Maps, again to get to entertainment. Press hold for Siri. The horn would be electronically controlled and can have volume settings or different noises for different situations, even a spoken Siri voice like Knight Rider, different alarm noises, warnings about thieves trying the door handles. The driver could lock all doors from this input as well as control wipers, maybe indicator lights. It would have Find My Car so you could locate it if it got stolen with alerts on your iPhone. iPad mini holders in the seats with central movie and music storage.

    Apple can bring a lot of neat features to the car and they can be one electric car manufacturer among many. They could perhaps share Tesla's charging grid and expand on it worldwide. It wouldn't necessarily be a huge profit earner relatively, the above would bring $5b profit in a year, which is small compared to their overall operation (>$50b), it just helps expand their operation and it's a good thing for them to do to help get people into more sustainable transport.
    patchythepiratejustbobfbrucemc
  • Reply 37 of 117
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,184member
    This is a all electric car.  It's not going to look like a gas car everyone is used to.  There's no need for a front grill because there is not radiator to cool a gas engine.  That means you really need no temp gauge, or RPM gauge, etc.  So there really is no need for the typical dashboard of a gas car! I like the large single screen of this car though the way it sticks out, will it make it a target for theifs? 

    In a couple years these will end up on the used car market as people buy new versions and so more people will be able to afford them as they get down to $20 thousand and less.  My brother just got a used all electric Ford Focus for $10 thousand.  He really likes it.  The range is short at around 60 miles but more then enough for his commute.  It replaced the Volvo he has that wasn't all that old and falling apart!!! 

    Now there is no gas stations he has to go to.  There's no oil changes. There's no engine belt you have to replace every 60,000 miles or whatever.  Electric cars are the future.  
    justbobfpalomine
  • Reply 38 of 117
    Wow, that's a pretty RICH title, don't you think? 
    "glimpse at Apple's future auto competition."
    Considering that at the moment, Apple is not presenting itself as an auto maker.
    Or even as a potential auto maker!
    bb-15
  • Reply 39 of 117
    liquidmarkliquidmark Posts: 118member
    sog35 said:
    Wow.

    Looks like the car Steve Jobs would have made.


    That's odd... It doesn't look like a vaguely car shaped dome with flush lines and no superfluous accents or vents.
    edited April 2016
  • Reply 40 of 117
    smalmsmalm Posts: 657member
    auxio said:
    A bit dramatic, but a few more things to consider before you pre-order.
    It's far from dramatic - the problem ist not Tesla investing billions.
    The real problem is that Tesla is loosing money selling cars. The more cars they sell the more money they loose.
    bb-15
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