Well, it's their wont to do so, but BMW and Daimler-Benz have railroaded derailed me as a customer. Both are off my list for the next car. Period.
Why? Any Apple car is years away from being something you could buy. If it's the"we don't wish to partner with Apple" thing Apple is gonna do what Apple is gonna do anyway. It's not like they don't already have the resources.
Tesla. Me too, Gasoline cars are pretty much off my list of purchase starting from 2017. My current BMW 330 is 11 years old and has been a road horse for me without any major issues so far, but to then end of next year, it'll be the time for me to part it and welcome my Tesla 3. By next decade, EV will be ubiquitous. I believe 2018 will be the EV year.
Tesla does have a drivetrain with lots of moving parts. In fact that is one area where they have had problems requiring service. But that is not all. They have many issues with all sorts of parts including the computer console, climate control, steering, suspension, chargers, as well as body and sunroof leaks, rattles, corrosion, not to mention battery fires, etc. This according to CR which formerly gave the Model S its best rating, a year later the problems began to surface and they no longer recommend the car.
You may not need any oil changes but maintenance free is a myth.
The Tesla drivetrain is a fixed ratio (single speed) gear reduction drive between the motor and the wheels. Two of them if you have the D model (dual motor). There are no gears, shifting, clutch or torque converter. So very simple in comparison to that multi-speed automatic in an ICE car.
There is NO mandatory scheduled maintenance on a Tesla at all. They encourage owners to have the car inspected annually, but it is not required to maintain the warranty. If you drive rationally, you rarely have to touch the brakes. The regenerative braking will bring the car to a complete stop with normal braking lead times by just taking your foot off the accelerator.
I do not think there have been any issues with sun roof, rattles or corrosion (the body is aluminum). The battery is warranted for 8 years, unlimited miles.
The only thing that some folks might consider high maintainence are the tires. They still roll down the pavement. The car is very heavy and very powerful. Those two things together = tire wear. Especially on the Performance models. Those 2.6 sec launches to 60 MPH, are hard on tires, even though the tesla never breaks traction nor leaves any visible rubber on the road (mine is not the P model).
But you are correct, totally maintenance free is a myth. But it is a tiny fraction of that required by most ICE cars. That is why the traditional manufacturers are struggling with selling EVs. The Car DEALERS live by their service departments. Why on earth would they be interested in selling something that has almost no maintenance required? Thus even if GM, Ford, or whoever, made the best EV ever conceived, it will be difficult to get the dealers to *try* to sell them.
How often do I need to bring my Tesla Vehicle in for maintenance service?
We recommend that you bring your Tesla vehicle into the nearest Service Center for maintenance service every 12,500 miles or once a year (whichever comes first). Please use our Find Us page to find a Service Center near you.
If I choose not to service my Tesla vehicle, will this void my warranty or Resale Value Guarantee?
It is highly recommended that you service your Tesla vehicle once a year or every 12,500 miles. If you do not follow this recommendation, your New Vehicle Limited Warranty will not be affected. If you are financing your Tesla vehicle through Tesla Financing, you will only be eligible for the full Resale Value Guarantee if your Tesla vehicle is brought in for service per the above recommended timeline.
Well, it's their wont to do so, but BMW and Daimler-Benz have railroaded derailed me as a customer. Both are off my list for the next car. Period.
Why? Any Apple car is years away from being something you could buy. If it's the"we don't wish to partner with Apple" thing Apple is gonna do what Apple is gonna do anyway. It's not like they don't already have the resources.
Apple wants to keep our data private? Really? Does the definition of private mean as long as everything is on their corporate servers?
Is there privacy creep in every iOS & MacOS update? Why don't people seem more concerned about this? I can preference all iCloud off save find my iPhone, yet if I turn that off & on, all data is again set to go to Apple ? 'Safari opens with: a new private window' setting in Safari is designed to override off links, such as from an email, linking data trails... Really?
How about all those fun little photos users can add to their contacts address book without the knowledge of the 'friends'...
Does the USSA (united surveillance state of america) need to contemplate beyond face value ?
Did I just hear blah blah blah blah. They don't sell it to god damn third party. If you don't want to fracking share, you don't Now, go suck Google's tit.
User data in car development I think has absolutely nothing to do with selling ads and the likes. It's more about safety I think. Analysing a whole lot of user driving data is cruisial to make a safe self driving system. Also if this has anything to do with commuting, user data is cruisial too. I think it's great that Apple has a no discussion attitude with user data privacy. Of course it'd make sense to use the data with all the partners involved in developing a safe car, but how'd you protect the data from leaking out? It's virtually impossible to guarantee something like that, unless you've got it all under one roof.
I use regen all the time on my PHEV. Can really boost the battery. One hill near me can add an extra mile to the range and almost bring me to a complete stop at the junction at the bottom without using the brakes. I control the level of regen with the 'flappy paddles' either side of the steering wheel.
Good. Apple is better off building a car without legacy companies.
Its like Apple colaborating with Blackberry in 2007 to build the iPhone. They would only get in the way of progress.
Here is how Apple will change the car game:
Your commute to work won't be a torture chamber. It will be something you look forward too and will enjoy. How will Apple do that? I have no idea. But that is the goal.
This might be shocking but I'm going to agree with you, Apple needs to find its own path and avoid legacy companies. This however isn't easy when something as complex as a car is about to be manufactured.
Your commute to work can be that today, you just need to find a job in a city that doesn't suffer from grid lock.
As for what Apple is about to produce, I'm kinda hoping that it is more SUV like than sports car like. In another thread I alluded to a modern day woody, you know the surfers van. Of course I don't expect it to look like a woody of old but rather to have its own unique look and be ever so practical.
Seems suspect, especially this early on in the project. That's like canning the project now because they couldn't decide on carpet color for the waiting lounge in the dealerships that will be built in 2023.
It might be early but Apple might as well put its critical marbles on the table in the beginning. Since user data is something lots of companies want to have because it can be worth more money in both the short and long term than the actual product they're selling, Apple needs to be up front and demand that user's data is not subject to compromise and certainly not for sale. I want, no I DEMAND, that Apple protect all my data and not let anyone else have access to it. I don't want ads showing up on my auto informational screen, I only want information about the operation of my car and, if my iPhone is plugged in via CarPlay, what I choose to see and access via my iPhone. I just saw an ad for a small car that touted it has the most electronics of anything in its size. I don't want a lot of unnecessary electronics in my car, I want it to run well and not have issues every time there's a stinking computer problem. Keep it simple, make it economical and green to run, and have almost no maintenance. That's my ideal car.
Agree with this.
Car maintenance is such a pain in the azz. Belts, hoses, hot oils running, literal exposions in the engine, ect. Its a miracle that car companies have figured out how to make ICE run 100,000+ miles. With an electric car there is no oil changes, brakes last 2x longer, no belts, exhaust systems, muffllers, ect.
Theoretically an electric car should only be in the shop once a year to rotate the tires. And I bet there is a way to make rotating the tires a thing of the past also with software. No more waiting at the shop for the tech to figure out why your car won't start. With electric cars the car itself will tell you whats wrong.
While I agree with mot of this don't start believing that electric cars will never require a trip to the shop for repair. Those trips should be a lot less but they will happen anyways.
I've got years or experience in automation for factories and stuff and frankly modern motor controllers are amazing in their function and reliability. I've seen machines with far bigger motors than one would see in a car run without issue for 20 years. This isn't casual driving either, we are talking motors worked extremely hard. Even so you do get failures from time to time, especially infant mortality failures. It won't be any different for cars.
The other problem for us people living up north is battery operation in really cold weather. Still haven seen a solution for that.
It might be early but Apple might as well put its critical marbles on the table in the beginning. Since user data is something lots of companies want to have because it can be worth more money in both the short and long term than the actual product they're selling, Apple needs to be up front and demand that user's data is not subject to compromise and certainly not for sale. I want, no I DEMAND, that Apple protect all my data and not let anyone else have access to it. I don't want ads showing up on my auto informational screen, I only want information about the operation of my car and, if my iPhone is plugged in via CarPlay, what I choose to see and access via my iPhone. I just saw an ad for a small car that touted it has the most electronics of anything in its size. I don't want a lot of unnecessary electronics in my car, I want it to run well and not have issues every time there's a stinking computer problem. Keep it simple, make it economical and green to run, and have almost no maintenance. That's my ideal car.
Agree with this.
Car maintenance is such a pain in the azz. Belts, hoses, hot oils running, literal exposions in the engine, ect. Its a miracle that car companies have figured out how to make ICE run 100,000+ miles. With an electric car there is no oil changes, brakes last 2x longer, no belts, exhaust systems, muffllers, ect.
Theoretically an electric car should only be in the shop once a year to rotate the tires. And I bet there is a way to make rotating the tires a thing of the past also with software. No more waiting at the shop for the tech to figure out why your car won't start. With electric cars the car itself will tell you whats wrong.
Sorry to disappoint you but your pie in the sky is just that-a pie in the sky. A car has moving parts, whether it's electric or gas-powered. There's still a drive shaft, transmission, tires, brakes, etc. I don't know where you're getting this idea that brakes last 2x longer just because a car is an electric car. With moving parts comes wear and tear. That's just the way it is. You can make things last longer but you won't be able to make them last forever. For example, drive over a road filled with potholes and you're going to ruin your wheel alignment. There's a trip to the mechanic.
I cannot imagine how software is going to "make rotating tires a thing of the past." People rotate their tires because after driving for a certain number of miles, the tires wear out. Instead of buying four brand-new tires, people get new tires for the wheels that are part of the drivetrain and move the worn out tires to the other two tires, e.g. if the car is front-wheel drive, people buy new tires for the two front wheels and move the worn out tires to the back. Rotating tires is due to mechanical wear and tear. There's no getting around that, unless one eliminates friction somehow.
Actually cars with regenerative braking do get more milage out of their brakes. Sometime it is significant amount of extended life. The problem with brakes is that excessive wear isn't always the drivers fault, the damn things can get rusty or otherwise sticking and suffer from intense wear and early replacement. So yeah the maintenance requirements are still there.
Sorry to disappoint you but your pie in the sky is just that-a pie in the sky. A car has moving parts, whether it's electric or gas-powered. There's still a drive shaft, transmission, tires, brakes, etc. I don't know where you're getting this idea that brakes last 2x longer just because a car is an electric car. With moving parts comes wear and tear. That's just the way it is. You can make things last longer but you won't be able to make them last forever. For example, drive over a road filled with potholes and you're going to ruin your wheel alignment. There's a trip to the mechanic.
I cannot imagine how software is going to "make rotating tires a thing of the past." People rotate their tires because after driving for a certain number of miles, the tires wear out. Instead of buying four brand-new tires, people get new tires for the wheels that are part of the drivetrain and move the worn out tires to the other two tires, e.g. if the car is front-wheel drive, people buy new tires for the two front wheels and move the worn out tires to the back. Rotating tires is due to mechanical wear and tear. There's no getting around that, unless one eliminates friction somehow.
Agree that moving parts are always an issue when it comes to wear but I am sure there are creative solutions to things like wheel alignment. Sensors could detect this and use small motors to adjust it in real time.
Using the braking energy to charge the battery will cause less energy to be dissipated into brakes, lengthening their life.
Most at if not all electric only cars have motors which directly drive the wheels. No transmission per se.
rotating tyres could be minimised particularly in 4wd cars by adjusting the torque sent to each wheel. I'd wager it would still have to be done but maintenance would be reduced.
Exactly. Porsche already has rear wheel steering via electric motors, it's not a stretch to imagine that the vehicle could adjust camber & toe on the fly depending on driving conditions, thereby increasing tread life. It's called creative engineering. It's hard, which is why so few do it.
Well, it's their wont to do so, but BMW and Daimler-Benz have railroaded derailed me as a customer. Both are off my list for the next car. Period.
We got my wife an E61 last year, and don't get me wrong, the car is a dream to drive, but the electronic gremlins and mechanical failures are a little much. My first Bimmer which I still have and love is an E30. I guess I naively thought the durability would be comparable. I'm thinking of letting it go and getting an E39 or even E34 touring just to reduce the number of things that can (and will) go wrong.
Apple is is going to have a tough sell when it comes to me. I keep my Macs 6-10 years and they have all been rock solid as have been my iPhones and iPads. If they build a car it's going to have to be as reliable as all my other Apple gear. On the other hand, if it's some sort of subscription scheme, I'm probably out. I'll just stick with my E30, E34, '74 Ghia and whatever other ancient transportation I eventually collect.
Why? Any Apple car is years away from being something you could buy. If it's the"we don't wish to partner with Apple" thing Apple is gonna do what Apple is gonna do anyway. It's not like they don't already have the resources.
Tesla. Me too, Gasoline cars are pretty much off my list of purchase starting from 2017. My current BMW 330 is 11 years old and has been a road horse for me without any major issues so far, but to then end of next year, it'll be the time for me to part it and welcome my Tesla 3. By next decade, EV will be ubiquitous. I believe 2018 will be the EV year.
Your desire to switch to a Tesla 3 indicates to me you are very rich, don't care for local maintenance and don't drive long trips. A few days ago a Tesla was charging up at our local coffee shop- Tims. It was there over the hr I was there, the charger was just a slow one. Perhaps the owner leaves the Tesla there and walks to a nearby job.
The other problem for us people living up north is battery operation in really cold weather. Still haven seen a solution for that.
So true, plus the extra battery load to keep the occupants from freezing. Then in our moist area, air conditioning plus heating is required to keep windows clear of mist.
Here battery cars can 50% or less than the quoted range in bad weather.
Sorry to disappoint you but your pie in the sky is just that-a pie in the sky. A car has moving parts, whether it's electric or gas-powered. There's still a drive shaft, transmission, tires, brakes, etc. I don't know where you're getting this idea that brakes last 2x longer just because a car is an electric car. With moving parts comes wear and tear. That's just the way it is. You can make things last longer but you won't be able to make them last forever. For example, drive over a road filled with potholes and you're going to ruin your wheel alignment. There's a trip to the mechanic.
I cannot imagine how software is going to "make rotating tires a thing of the past." People rotate their tires because after driving for a certain number of miles, the tires wear out. Instead of buying four brand-new tires, people get new tires for the wheels that are part of the drivetrain and move the worn out tires to the other two tires, e.g. if the car is front-wheel drive, people buy new tires for the two front wheels and move the worn out tires to the back. Rotating tires is due to mechanical wear and tear. There's no getting around that, unless one eliminates friction somehow.
Well, there is a school of thought that rotating tires is counterproductive. The reason being that tires "wear in" to the position on the car--the alignment, camber, bearings, bushings, shocks--and that when you rotate them and bring in new rolling specs you are prematurely wearing out those suspension components (very expensive) at the expense of cheap tires.
Comments
https://www.teslamotors.com/support/service-plans
How often do I need to bring my Tesla Vehicle in for maintenance service?
We recommend that you bring your Tesla vehicle into the nearest Service Center for maintenance service every 12,500 miles or once a year (whichever comes first). Please use our Find Us page to find a Service Center near you.
If I choose not to service my Tesla vehicle, will this void my warranty or Resale Value Guarantee?
It is highly recommended that you service your Tesla vehicle once a year or every 12,500 miles. If you do not follow this recommendation, your New Vehicle Limited Warranty will not be affected. If you are financing your Tesla vehicle through Tesla Financing, you will only be eligible for the full Resale Value Guarantee if your Tesla vehicle is brought in for service per the above recommended timeline.
If you don't want to fracking share, you don't Now, go suck Google's tit.
I control the level of regen with the 'flappy paddles' either side of the steering wheel.
Your commute to work can be that today, you just need to find a job in a city that doesn't suffer from grid lock.
As for what Apple is about to produce, I'm kinda hoping that it is more SUV like than sports car like. In another thread I alluded to a modern day woody, you know the surfers van. Of course I don't expect it to look like a woody of old but rather to have its own unique look and be ever so practical.
Apple is is going to have a tough sell when it comes to me. I keep my Macs 6-10 years and they have all been rock solid as have been my iPhones and iPads. If they build a car it's going to have to be as reliable as all my other Apple gear. On the other hand, if it's some sort of subscription scheme, I'm probably out. I'll just stick with my E30, E34, '74 Ghia and whatever other ancient transportation I eventually collect.
A few days ago a Tesla was charging up at our local coffee shop- Tims.
It was there over the hr I was there, the charger was just a slow one.
Perhaps the owner leaves the Tesla there and walks to a nearby job.
Then in our moist area, air conditioning plus heating is required to keep windows clear of mist.
Here battery cars can 50% or less than the quoted range in bad weather.