More importantly, we should shut down work visas for Indian workers. India outsourcing companies are sucking up the majority of the work visa allotment each year by flooding the system with applications. Meanwhile taking American jobs. Same with the outsourcing companies operating in India, taking US jobs. The US government should be taking strong action! And not only with India, but also with China.
They should not "shut down" work visas, but they should definitely change the visa/work permit situation in the United States. The system is really messed up. The visa that you are talking about is the H1B (a temporary work visa) 3 years, renewable for another 3 years maximum. The company I worked for used it to as a stop-gap measure when hiring post-graduate and PHD graduate students from an American University but who were citizens of foreign a country (student visa -> H1B) -- because it was the only "temporary" visa that supports dual-purpose (i.e. they can start the green card process to become permanent residents etc.). You cannot change your employer during that 6 year period (or it resets / ends the green card process) -- which takes away any leverage when it comes to salary. The whole outsourcing happened during the crash when people lost their jobs and their permission to stay in the US but still had contacts and were FORCED out of the US.... which worked out great, they returned home and started up outsourcing / consulting in India....
There should be no H1B or temporary visa for skilled immigrants. There should be a way to get a green card immediately if you are in demand (salary at or higher market wages) or you graduate from an American University. Keep the best in the brightest in the United States.
The H1B as it is now basically creates an indentured servitude situation that has been exploited and abused. The system is in a complete mess, you have skilled people on waiting lists to enter the US to work or reside legally for 6, 10 years or more, then you have people jumping the border and without any real skills that are given priorty. If there is a need for unskilled labour -- that is where temporary worker permits should be used.... Let the farm laborers etc. come in and do the work, return home then have the opportunity to come back to the US the next year... you could even use that program as an incentive.... make it available to Mexico but tell them they have to stop all transit through their country of illegal labour bound to the US (they do pretty well keeping them out if they plan to make Mexico their illegal labor stop).
The reality of 2016 is Chinese premium smart phones are flooding the market for <$200 and are decent enough. Poor people the world over just can't justify the cost of an iPhone - it used to be 3 times better but now it's not. Apple just has to cut prices way way more in developing countries and needs to cut them a bit as well in developed countries. They can pay for it by stopping the useless ridicously expensive stock buybacks.
Maybe just include a India chip that only works there, so they can't be exported to other countries.
I feel like Apple is incapable of adjusting it's prices since Tim took over. It's business - any competitive product will sell at the right price.
1) Stop pricing in dollars since it's mostly cheap foreign components. 2) Low prices by 30% across the board 3) Have a fire sale - 50% off for a week in the doldrums of June (surprise sales different times every year) every year and flood the market and claw back market share. Fight Apple - Fight!
Let India operate the way they want to. The country, as a whole, remains sensitive to international interference and influence, for perfectly legitimate reasons.
arguable. there is atrocious violence against women that is socially accepted in India -- so id say their sensitivity to outside influence is a problem, not the solution.
The abundance of ignorance regarding India's regulations regarding foreign companies is clear in this thread! (and understandably so)
Let India operate the way they want to. The country, as a whole, remains sensitive to international interference and influence, for perfectly legitimate reasons.
You do know India has fallen behind China BECAUSE OF THOSE FRACKING CRAPPY POLICIES.
India a cesspool of corruption so your defense of their policies is kinda quaint,
This is protecting thousands of backward garbage producing corrupt companies who grease politicians not the people who have to pay more for less. The quality of many goods and services in India is abysmal at any price.
India has the educational system and resources to do so much more for its people than they do now. It's embarrassing that they are not a bigger economic power than they are.
That's why II laugh at those in the US wanting protectionist policies... You're going to be screwed even more than now except by a different group of people in a captive market.
They would still have to import the used phones..... otherwise they have had to sell the new ones first.
I always knew there is something wonky with India with regards to importation of electronics. It is funny seeing Indians in a hotel here, I remember seeing tour groups of Indians and they would each of purchased one TV (or maybe someone else has and is using the tour company to import) - and you will see 50+ TVs ready to go to the airport to go back to india with the tour group.
Silly post. I don't know where you see this, or what the clientele is in the places you hang out. TVs cost about the same price in India -- or can be even lower -- than they are at a Best Buy here. For example, a 43-inch LG LED TV (say, LG 43LF540A 43 Inch Full HD LED TV) can be had for INR36,000, i.e., less than $550.
Most goods in India are of poorer quality for their price, that's a fact. If the good is produced locally it can be lower. Import tariffs are massive. If the US was a bigger trading partner with India they'd be retaliation from the US no doubt.
More importantly, we should shut down work visas for Indian workers. India outsourcing companies are sucking up the majority of the work visa allotment each year by flooding the system with applications. Meanwhile taking American jobs. Same with the outsourcing companies operating in India, taking US jobs. The US government should be taking strong action! And not only with India, but also with China.
They should not "shut down" work visas, but they should definitely change the visa/work permit situation in the United States. The system is really messed up. The visa that you are talking about is the H1B (a temporary work visa) 3 years, renewable for another 3 years maximum. The company I worked for used it to as a stop-gap measure when hiring post-graduate and PHD graduate students from an American University but who were citizens of foreign a country (student visa -> H1B) -- because it was the only "temporary" visa that supports dual-purpose (i.e. they can start the green card process to become permanent residents etc.). You cannot change your employer during that 6 year period (or it resets / ends the green card process) -- which takes away any leverage when it comes to salary. The whole outsourcing happened during the crash when people lost their jobs and their permission to stay in the US but still had contacts and were FORCED out of the US.... which worked out great, they returned home and started up outsourcing / consulting in India....
There should be no H1B or temporary visa for skilled immigrants. There should be a way to get a green card immediately if you are in demand (salary at or higher market wages) or you graduate from an American University. Keep the best in the brightest in the United States.
The H1B as it is now basically creates an indentured servitude situation that has been exploited and abused. The system is in a complete mess, you have skilled people on waiting lists to enter the US to work or reside legally for 6, 10 years or more, then you have people jumping the border and without any real skills that are given priorty. If there is a need for unskilled labour -- that is where temporary worker permits should be used.... Let the farm laborers etc. come in and do the work, return home then have the opportunity to come back to the US the next year... you could even use that program as an incentive.... make it available to Mexico but tell them they have to stop all transit through their country of illegal labour bound to the US (they do pretty well keeping them out if they plan to make Mexico their illegal labor stop).
I agree, the H1B, especially for those that take a long time to get the green cards, like Indian, Chinese, is kind of being a slave.
Skilled professionals are like gold for a country; you're basically stealing the best people from a foreign country. It's absurd all the crying over that from local engineers; yes it slightly depresses salaries (and even that is questionable see next sentence). But, those salaries are high in first place because of those foreign engineers create the conditions for explosive growth that fuel them.
Let India operate the way they want to. The country, as a whole, remains sensitive to international interference and influence, for perfectly legitimate reasons.
arguable. there is atrocious violence against women that is socially accepted in India -- so id say their sensitivity to outside influence is a problem, not the solution.
This is such ignorant holier-then-thou bullshit, just made up to sound like 'fact' since people keep repeating it. I am not remotely condoning -- indeed, I utterly condemn -- the remotest type of violence against women, but look up the data: many countries in the West are substantially worse on every form of violence against women. See for example, the UN report on this topic (p. 131, Table 6.1): of the 25 countries studied, India is #19 (in terms of being the least-worst), in the same company as France and Italy; countries worse than India include Switzerland, Poland, Germany, Denmark, Finland, Mexico, Colombia, Peru, Australia, and Czech Rep,. to name a few. The US -- which is off-the-charts on violence against women -- is not even included in the study. (http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demographic/products/Worldswomen/WW2010 Report_by chapter(pdf)/violence%20against%20women.pdf)
If you're actually interested in the facts (as any intelligent person should be), I can point you to more sources.
Shame on you -- and people like you -- for propagating false stereotypes.
India is a protectionist hellhole for foreign companies, local company sell overpriced garbage with no competition.
No wonder India has fallen behind China despite having great engineers.
Yeah, yet most major global companies do business there, and many of them even -- what do you know! -- make money.
Apple desperately wants to be there. Why? Because Apple and its managers know less about it than people like you?
The level of ignorance in this thread from folks like you is astounding (but not surprising, I guess, given the history of past posts). <-- This was unnecessary on my part, so I withdraw that.
Their using estimates (even there, there are limitations to the report due to reporting issues).
Violence against women all around the world is massively under-reported, because most is between partners or within families. Partner violence is very high in SE Asia, Africa and the Middle east, nearly 37% of women will have experience this in their lifetime (23% in the Americas. 24% in China, 26% in Europe )
Non Partner sexual violence is highest in the Americas (10%) versus 6% in SE Asia. In the US, rates are just above those in SE Asia since some places in the Americas are particularly bad for women.
We're not even talking sexual harassment, discrimination, lack of opportunity, health issues of women here, which would certainly not favor certain parts of the world. You can hunt down those reports at your pleasure.
So, basically, it's terrible in various degrees for women everywhere... Bravo World (sic)
India is not apart from the rest of the world, except maybe in putting its head in the sand about being different than elsewhere; they're not. They are a lot like the US was in the 1950s before violence against women, especially from partners, started to be taken seriously and prosecuted.
Many in India, especially Indian women, are fed up with the status quo and want movement on that; I'm certainly not inventing that... Women are fed up about his everywhere, but especially in places where they claim there is "no problem". This was the case for India until recently.
There are more iPhone sales in Vietnam or Cambodia than in India even with the same or less income per capita and population < 10% in those 2 South East Asia countries. The Indian's shopping mentality is not the same as Chinese or South East Asian. Cook didn't understand that. If he wants iPhone sale to take off in India, price it at $200 for low tier SE and $400 for iPhone 6S.
Your comment doesn't take sense at all. I am going to assume you are talking about percentage-wise and not unit-wise and even that doesn't add up. Again, I would question your fact about more iPhone sales in Vietnam or Cambodia. The total population of both the countries would be much smaller than the number of people in India who can afford the full price iPhone. Secondly, almost every Indian that I know who travels to US is going back with an iPhone or two. And this is even when Apple products are being sold by Indian resellers.
That would be a smart move and give Apple more leverage against China.
That makes no sense. The hardware manufacturing and assembly are located in close proximity between Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Shenzhen. Indian operations means additional transport costs vs what is in place now. Not to mention the decades of expertise developed in Shenzhen is replaced for what? Cheaper labor?
Those idiotic socialists in India are playing that age old import substitution card again. The people these policies hurt the most are their own population as the local phones would surely be mediocre by comp to the iPhone, and iPhone prices would be cost prohibitive.
What @sog35 is suggesting has merit to it. From what I recall, due to Indian protectionist policies, if Apple manufacture/assembles iPhone in India, they get excluded from import taxes (even if every parts of that unit is imported from other countries). The import taxes for a finished product in India is extremely high - in some cases 100%.
This was a dumb -- indeed, condescending -- move by Apple to begin with. Compete there with your good stuff at the best possible prices, and let the chips fall where they may. If you can't, go compete somewhere else.
The Indian government did the right thing.
Why do you think it is condescending? I buy refurbished products - Especially when they are sold by manufacturer, where I am getting similar warranty and the product I want at less price. All luxury car has some for of "Certified Previous Owner" program where the dealers sell their cars. There is a market for it. I think Apple is trying to address the need in India quickly while they work on other aspects such as their Retail Stores, manufacturing, etc. Just think about it, if Apple gets permission to sell refurbished product in India, they could open doors for other guys also and they can get advantage also. I don't think there is anything wrong with it.
I believe what is really happening is that while Indian Government is giving other breaks to Apple, starting with permission to build retail stores and there was some 30% break in some taxes, the turning down of used phone is throwing a bone to those local folks who raised a flag against Apple. You win some you loose some, but at the end Apple will be in India and make s significant difference for Apple. Much different buyer than Chinese.
arguable. there is atrocious violence against women that is socially accepted in India -- so id say their sensitivity to outside influence is a problem, not the solution.
This is such ignorant holier-then-thou bullshit, just made up to sound like 'fact' since people keep repeating it. I am not remotely condoning -- indeed, I utterly condemn -- the remotest type of violence against women, but look up the data: many countries in the West are substantially worse on every form of violence against women. See for example, the UN report on this topic (p. 131, Table 6.1): of the 25 countries studied, India is #19 (in terms of being the least-worst), in the same company as France and Italy; countries worse than India include Switzerland, Poland, Germany, Denmark, Finland, Mexico, Colombia, Peru, Australia, and Czech Rep,. to name a few. The US -- which is off-the-charts on violence against women -- is not even included in the study. (http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demographic/products/Worldswomen/WW2010 Report_by chapter(pdf)/violence%20against%20women.pdf)
If you're actually interested in the facts (as any intelligent person should be), I can point you to more sources.
Shame on you -- and people like you -- for propagating false stereotypes.
what nonsense. Indian sexism is a thing. patriarchy and sexism is deep ingrained in India:
being extremely poor and sexism deeply ingrained, I would argue violence against women is under reported in Inida. regardless, it doesn't matter that other countries are sexist too (and yes, Italy is awful). the social norms in India have not caught up to the modern world. they will eventually.
your denialism of your country's serious problems is patriotic but helps no one.
my point stands -- Indian sensitivity to outside influence is a relic and a hindrance to progress. as is this silly policy decision.
Let India operate the way they want to. The country, as a whole, remains sensitive to international interference and influence, for perfectly legitimate reasons.
arguable. there is atrocious violence against women that is socially accepted in India -- so id say their sensitivity to outside influence is a problem, not the solution.
Atrocious violence against women is not "socially accepted" in India. Bad things happen everywhere in the world. Look no further than your own country:
http://tinyurl.com/LadyCutsFetus
So you want Apple to lose money on every single phone they sell in India?
Isn't it Mr. Cook himself promoting the idea that India may be their next big market?
It's a large market, but from everything I've read they seem extremely frugal in India. Used and/or refurb phones would have been perfect to jumpstart that market. They definitely should not lower prices just to appease cheapskates.
Comments
They should not "shut down" work visas, but they should definitely change the visa/work permit situation in the United States. The system is really messed up. The visa that you are talking about is the H1B (a temporary work visa) 3 years, renewable for another 3 years maximum. The company I worked for used it to as a stop-gap measure when hiring post-graduate and PHD graduate students from an American University but who were citizens of foreign a country (student visa -> H1B) -- because it was the only "temporary" visa that supports dual-purpose (i.e. they can start the green card process to become permanent residents etc.). You cannot change your employer during that 6 year period (or it resets / ends the green card process) -- which takes away any leverage when it comes to salary. The whole outsourcing happened during the crash when people lost their jobs and their permission to stay in the US but still had contacts and were FORCED out of the US.... which worked out great, they returned home and started up outsourcing / consulting in India....
There should be no H1B or temporary visa for skilled immigrants. There should be a way to get a green card immediately if you are in demand (salary at or higher market wages) or you graduate from an American University. Keep the best in the brightest in the United States.
The H1B as it is now basically creates an indentured servitude situation that has been exploited and abused. The system is in a complete mess, you have skilled people on waiting lists to enter the US to work or reside legally for 6, 10 years or more, then you have people jumping the border and without any real skills that are given priorty. If there is a need for unskilled labour -- that is where temporary worker permits should be used.... Let the farm laborers etc. come in and do the work, return home then have the opportunity to come back to the US the next year... you could even use that program as an incentive.... make it available to Mexico but tell them they have to stop all transit through their country of illegal labour bound to the US (they do pretty well keeping them out if they plan to make Mexico their illegal labor stop).
Cheapness isn't everything. It just wouldn't be worth it.
Liam the iPhone disassembly robot has his work cut out for him.
And eventually he will be upgraded to assemble iPhones. It's inevitable.
No wonder India has fallen behind China despite having great engineers.
You do know India has fallen behind China BECAUSE OF THOSE FRACKING CRAPPY POLICIES.
India a cesspool of corruption so your defense of their policies is kinda quaint,
This is protecting thousands of backward garbage producing corrupt companies who grease politicians not the people who have to pay more for less.
The quality of many goods and services in India is abysmal at any price.
India has the educational system and resources to do so much more for its people than they do now.
It's embarrassing that they are not a bigger economic power than they are.
That's why II laugh at those in the US wanting protectionist policies... You're going to be screwed even more than now except by a different group of people in a captive market.
Import tariffs are massive.
If the US was a bigger trading partner with India they'd be retaliation from the US no doubt.
Skilled professionals are like gold for a country; you're basically stealing the best people from a foreign country.
It's absurd all the crying over that from local engineers; yes it slightly depresses salaries (and even that is questionable see next sentence).
But, those salaries are high in first place because of those foreign engineers create the conditions for explosive growth that fuel them.
If you're actually interested in the facts (as any intelligent person should be), I can point you to more sources.
Shame on you -- and people like you -- for propagating false stereotypes.
Yeah, yet most major global companies do business there, and many of them even -- what do you know! -- make money.
Apple desperately wants to be there. Why? Because Apple and its managers know less about it than people like you?
The level of ignorance in this thread from folks like you is astounding (but not surprising, I guess, given the history of past posts). <-- This was unnecessary on my part, so I withdraw that.
Stay fracking topic next time OK. Got that.
-----
As for ignorance, you cherry pick like every one else.
Me too I got a god damn UN study (2015).
This one is a WHO study.
Estimates of violence against women.
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/85239/1/9789241564625_eng.pdf
Their using estimates (even there, there are limitations to the report due to reporting issues).
Violence against women all around the world is massively under-reported, because most is between partners or within families.
Partner violence is very high in SE Asia, Africa and the Middle east, nearly 37% of women will have experience this in their lifetime (23% in the Americas. 24% in China, 26% in Europe )
Non Partner sexual violence is highest in the Americas (10%) versus 6% in SE Asia. In the US, rates are just above those in SE Asia since some places in the Americas are particularly bad for women.
We're not even talking sexual harassment, discrimination, lack of opportunity, health issues of women here, which would certainly not favor certain parts of the world.
You can hunt down those reports at your pleasure.
So, basically, it's terrible in various degrees for women everywhere... Bravo World (sic)
India is not apart from the rest of the world, except maybe in putting its head in the sand about being different than elsewhere; they're not.
They are a lot like the US was in the 1950s before violence against women, especially from partners, started to be taken seriously and prosecuted.
Many in India, especially Indian women, are fed up with the status quo and want movement on that; I'm certainly not inventing that...
Women are fed up about his everywhere, but especially in places where they claim there is "no problem". This was the case for India until recently.
Why do you think it is condescending? I buy refurbished products - Especially when they are sold by manufacturer, where I am getting similar warranty and the product I want at less price. All luxury car has some for of "Certified Previous Owner" program where the dealers sell their cars. There is a market for it. I think Apple is trying to address the need in India quickly while they work on other aspects such as their Retail Stores, manufacturing, etc. Just think about it, if Apple gets permission to sell refurbished product in India, they could open doors for other guys also and they can get advantage also. I don't think there is anything wrong with it.
I believe what is really happening is that while Indian Government is giving other breaks to Apple, starting with permission to build retail stores and there was some 30% break in some taxes, the turning down of used phone is throwing a bone to those local folks who raised a flag against Apple. You win some you loose some, but at the end Apple will be in India and make s significant difference for Apple. Much different buyer than Chinese.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_India#Patriarchal_society
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_India#Son_preference
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_India#Discrimination_against_girls
...let me guess - you're a man?
the 2012 bus gang rape was a huge deal:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Delhi_gang_rape
...because it's argued the case was emblematic of the culture of violence and sexism toward women in India:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Delhi_gang_rape#Public_discussions_about_violence_against_women
there's a reason India is forcing an emergency help button onto all smartphones -- violence against women. published on this very site:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/04/26/iphones-sold-in-india-will-require-panic-button-starting-in-2017
being extremely poor and sexism deeply ingrained, I would argue violence against women is under reported in Inida. regardless, it doesn't matter that other countries are sexist too (and yes, Italy is awful). the social norms in India have not caught up to the modern world. they will eventually.
your denialism of your country's serious problems is patriotic but helps no one.
my point stands -- Indian sensitivity to outside influence is a relic and a hindrance to progress. as is this silly policy decision.