iTunes 12.4 to reportedly include new sidebar, minor UI tweaks

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  • Reply 21 of 46
    thrangthrang Posts: 1,009member
    GET RID OF THE REQUIREMENT TO USE ICLOUD MUSIC LIBRARY FOR EVERYTHING SIMPLY TO LISTEN TO APPLE MUSIC OFFLINE. It's one of the most asinine things Apple has done, along with removing local LAN sharing of photos.
    tallest skil
  • Reply 22 of 46
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    mtbnut said:
    It looks like the IDE's I see our IT department using (Eclipse, Visual Basic, and so on). I keep it open on my desktop so co-workers think I'm doing something amazing; instead, I'm trying to find my copy of Front 242, which takes about 3 minutes. 
    I think it’s time for Stories From A Microsoft Employee.

    ~:~

    The Windows 10 UI development was the most enormous shitstorm I’ve seen in a while. Many people have pointed out that the UI is upgraded piecemeal…

    How hard is it to move some fucking settings menus?

    Oh, god. You have no idea. It’s so hard. I tried to add a dropdown. Do you want me to describe  in excruciating detail what it takes to add a dropdown to the control panel?

    I find myself overcome with morbid curiosity. Is it like javafx and dxml?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAH NO. First you find the folder that contains the code files for the control panel, and there will be, like, 5 of them, each with something like 2000 lines of code, except for one that has 15000 lines of code and I never found out why. Once you find the C++, code file for the specific subsection of of the control panel, you must then find the appropriate XAML file that is matched up to this code file, and then search through it to find another dropdown box element you can copy and paste because no one actually knows how any of this works. Then you have to go into a resource file and find a very specific resource ID for your control panel string and create a new resource ID to tie it to. Then, you must find all the relevant C++, code tying the dropdown you coped, and copy/paste all that code. But this time, modify the hooks so it gets tied to your new dropdown. Then you have to run through 2 separate special compilers to compile the resource files, and if ANYTHING goes wrong–literally anything–the ONLY error you get back is this: -1. So after you run around screaming for a day because there is no explanation for what the fuck is going on, you give it to your coworker who discovers that every single number in the resource file must increase by exactly 1, and if there are any holes in those numbers everything fails completely. Then you can actually finish compiling the special compiler stuff and start building the actual codebase through a specialized plugin built for Visual Studio for the sole purpose of dealing with this fucking codebase, and then you might actually get something to compile.

    WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK

    And that is how you add a dropdown to the control panel in Windows 10. And people ask me why I quit that job. 

    How old is this “specialized plugin”?

    From what I can tell, about 7-8 years. I think it was based on an even older IDE they were using, so it gets complicated. It’s hard for me to even explain how any of this works, because most people there don’t even know how it works.

    ~:~

    This has been Stories from a Microsoft Employee, which I found as a transcript of a chat. I have more.

    edited May 2016 magman1979bestkeptsecretwonkothesanekseccornchip
  • Reply 23 of 46
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,384member
    ireland said:
    iBooks is no longer part of iTunes btw.

    Next they should move Podcasts out to a dedicated clean app and iOS apps and management to the App Store app.

    Then put movies + movie store in a new Video app and build a completely new and clean iTunes jukebox + music store for iTunes customers and also build a new dedicated Music app for Apple Music customers.

    They could offer the same for Windows user or just keep the iTunes setup over there. But on Mac via a software update they could fix the mess that is iTunes and install all these apps by default for user convenience.

    Cleverly for Mac users if they wanted they could offer a menu to switch between these media apps available from within the menu of each of them with consistent shortcuts.
    Some excellent ideas, I'd love to see Apple revamp things in ways as you suggest. I'd bet they have prototyped and designed several major (and minor) changes to the UI, let's hope at least one of the major ones gets the green light. Perhaps this minor tweak is a precursor to more major (underlying) changes that are coming? Let's hope.

    As for the leaked pics, I'm kicking myself for clicking through to MacRumors - the images were okay (nothing earth shattering), but I saw a few of the comments... that site hasn't changed one bit, the first post is a race to see who can post the first negative comment, and then the peanut gallery of oneupmanship juveniles follow suit, trying to be more clever in their negativity (and failing) - wow I hate that site, please AI don't follow that same path!
    You've just described the comments for every SINGLE article posted on Macrumors. That site is a troll magnet, the site owners know and love that, and they specifically word their stories for that purpose, often by even including lies or half-truths in the headline itself. It's a cesspool of a site with zero integrity, existing solely for clicks no matter what the cost, and has been that way for a long time. 90% of posters clearly hate Apple with a passion, while pretending to be past fans or some other bullshit. Regarding your comment, it sounds ok for some use cases, but could be horrible for others. iTunes is tricky, because it still has to support the legacy way in which many people sync their devices, and if they remove that there would be a massive outcry, probably from the same outlets who already shit on iTunes for being what it is.
    calitallest skilwilliamlondonmagman1979anantksundaramcornchip
  • Reply 24 of 46
    mr omr o Posts: 1,046member
    macxpress said:
    I wish iTunes would just go back to the original 1.0 version. It was simple, slick and worked pretty damn good. Make the iTunes store a separate app like on iOS. The current version of iTunes is a jack of all trades, master of absolutely none!
    In order for Apple to do that they need to say screw Windows. It seems like the Windows desktop app is used as a crutch. But definitely the iTunes Store and Apple Music should be separate from device syncing.
    FIDDLESTICKS! It is a very lame excuse in favour of the status quo. Have a look at Slack:



    >:x
    edited May 2016 oirudleahcim
  • Reply 25 of 46
    nathanimalnathanimal Posts: 67member
    I personally don't find the current version of iTunes that difficult to get around in, so I don't understand the hubbub over feature bloat. And my pre-AM library was a decent size at 35 GB. 

    The only annoyance I persistently encounter is the search function, which makes me choose between Apple Music or my local files. Or, if I am in the iTunes store tab, it just searches the store. Apple should change it so it will show search results from all three places in the autocomplete menu that appears below the search field, organized by local files, Apple Music, and the iTunes Store. Or whatever order they deem fits their business model. 
    magman1979doozydozencornchip
  • Reply 26 of 46
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,293member
    Every time I see an article about iTunes getting updated, there is ALWAYS the inevitable flood of people demanding it be broken up into little apps specific to each function...

    All I can ask is a big fat WHY???

    I came from the Windows world, and continue to monitor that cesspool of garbage, and TS's little post about Win 10 development just validates how HORRIFIC Windows is. There are many functions in Windows that now too have this multiple-apps mentality, and it's GARBAGE.

    iTunes does NOT need to be split up into little itty bitty chunks. I seem to be one of those few people these days that appreciate a central application to manage all my media in one place.

    Now, before anyone jumps on me like a pack of wolves for saying that, I DO agree it is in need for a major upgrade. Functions like those mentioned here by others, no daemon for running in the background to handle sharing of content, the somewhat unintuitive navigation and interface workflows, those need to be addressed by Apple, no question about that.

    Here are my two cents on what Apple should do with it...
    • Change the name from iTunes to iMedia (it has grown far beyond just tunes)
    • Develop a more intuitive navigation structure and workflow to replace the fragmented drop down menus and split screens
    • Develop a background daemon service to handle LAN sharing of iTunes content, such as music, TV shows, etc, removing the need to have iTunes running continuously
    • Improve the resource management of iTunes to be more efficient, perhaps moving it to a Swift code base over time
    Those are some of things I can think off the top of my head, as overall I'm quite satisfied with the way it functions.
    tallest skiloirudleahcimpropoddoozydozenwaverboycornchipjashue
  • Reply 27 of 46
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,293member

    I personally don't find the current version of iTunes that difficult to get around in, so I don't understand the hubbub over feature bloat. And my pre-AM library was a decent size at 35 GB. 

    The only annoyance I persistently encounter is the search function, which makes me choose between Apple Music or my local files. Or, if I am in the iTunes store tab, it just searches the store. Apple should change it so it will show search results from all three places in the autocomplete menu that appears below the search field, organized by local files, Apple Music, and the iTunes Store. Or whatever order they deem fits their business model. 
    I like that idea of the search enhancements, would bring it more in line with what Spotlight can now do in OS X.
    oirudleahcimcornchip
  • Reply 28 of 46
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    iTunes does NOT need to be split up into little itty bitty chunks. I DO agree it is in need for a major upgrade.
    The entire iTunes argument in two sentences, folks.
    Change the name from iTunes to iMedia (it has grown far beyond just tunes)
    But “brand recognition”! Apple is just now barely getting away from the i prefix of the late 1990s. If anything, wouldn’t it be Apple Tunes–stylized as Tunes?
    Develop a background daemon service to handle LAN sharing of iTunes content, such as music, TV shows, etc, removing the need to have iTunes running continuously
    Woo! Better yet, allow hard drives that contain iTunes Libraries to be directly connected to an AirPort device to eliminate the need for a running computer entirely. Not to say that I want to get rid of traditional computers, just that we shouldn’t need them.
    perhaps moving it to a Swift code base over time
    You’d think that would be obvious, but apparently Apple only uses Swift in Calculator, and there only partially...
    oirudleahcimdoozydozenmagman1979
  • Reply 29 of 46
    @magman1979, et al

    Isn't it clear that people with serious music libraries and music server needs need to shun iTunes? I already have after the whole deleted-music-library debacle several iterations of iTunes ago. (I didn't believe it possible until it happened to me. And yes, I'm still pissed. Once burned, twice shy.)

    I haven't settled on a final product yet, but I'm auditioning JRiver and other media management applications. I don't use iTunes any more other than syncing my iDevices, app and software updates, and some Internet radio streaming, which I can usually do from a browser, anyway. Seems like there are many alternatives to most of what iTunes offers unless you're just lazily determined to feed Apple's gluttonous revenue cycles and increasingly inept, incomprehensible software and UI design trends.

    I'd love some people to stand up at the next Developers Conference and yell "bullshit" if the Big Macs have the audacity to tout another window-dressing release of iTunes. I agree with someone's comment of "dynamite." That would be a good startover point.
  • Reply 30 of 46
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,289member
    They can simply follow iOS to break the features down into smaller apps and rename them to:
    - Music
    - Videos
    - iTunes Store
    - Podcasts

    Each with simple intuitive but clearly defined functions. Music for just playing music, including music streaming. Videos for playing movies (iTunes rent/purchase) and music videos. iTunes Store for buying/renting music and movies. Podcasts may integrate with radio to offer free video/audio streaming.

    But I guess they just want to create a central desktop app.
    jupiteroneRayz2016
  • Reply 31 of 46
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,322member
    Every time I see an article about iTunes getting updated, there is ALWAYS the inevitable flood of people demanding it be broken up into little apps specific to each function...

    All I can ask is a big fat WHY???

    I came from the Windows world, and continue to monitor that cesspool of garbage, and TS's little post about Win 10 development just validates how HORRIFIC Windows is. There are many functions in Windows that now too have this multiple-apps mentality, and it's GARBAGE.

    iTunes does NOT need to be split up into little itty bitty chunks. I seem to be one of those few people these days that appreciate a central application to manage all my media in one place.

    Now, before anyone jumps on me like a pack of wolves for saying that, I DO agree it is in need for a major upgrade. Functions like those mentioned here by others, no daemon for running in the background to handle sharing of content, the somewhat unintuitive navigation and interface workflows, those need to be addressed by Apple, no question about that.

    Here are my two cents on what Apple should do with it...
    • Change the name from iTunes to iMedia (it has grown far beyond just tunes)
    • Develop a more intuitive navigation structure and workflow to replace the fragmented drop down menus and split screens
    • Develop a background daemon service to handle LAN sharing of iTunes content, such as music, TV shows, etc, removing the need to have iTunes running continuously
    • Improve the resource management of iTunes to be more efficient, perhaps moving it to a Swift code base over time
    Those are some of things I can think off the top of my head, as overall I'm quite satisfied with the way it functions.
    Maybe not itty bitty chunks but a few sensible ones would be good.
    Or just strip iTunes back of things that just don't make any sense.

    Yes keep it a media player/ organizer and keep the name but if it's not content that we won't to hold on to then it should be gone.
    Devices & Apps management never had any business being in iTunes in the first place.
    AppleMusic, Podcasts and online radio where also marginal at best given they are just stream and forget.
    Books have their own manager.

    Agree fully with iTunes being able to manage a local network disk of media. Especially with laptop SSD sizes. Having my library on a local network disk and having that network disk act as a full local home to my media to stream to the computer, phone or TV would be a real win.
  • Reply 32 of 46
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,293member
    mattinoz said:

    Maybe not itty bitty chunks but a few sensible ones would be good. 
    Or just strip iTunes back of things that just don't make any sense.

    Yes keep it a media player/ organizer and keep the name but if it's not content that we won't to hold on to then it should be gone.
    Devices & Apps management never had any business being in iTunes in the first place.
    AppleMusic, Podcasts and online radio where also marginal at best given they are just stream and forget.
    Books have their own manager.

    Agree fully with iTunes being able to manage a local network disk of media. Especially with laptop SSD sizes. Having my library on a local network disk and having that network disk act as a full local home to my media to stream to the computer, phone or TV would be a real win.

    You forget, that during iTunes' prime time back in the iPod and 1st generation iPhone days, iTunes was the logical location for device management of this nature. With the advent of cloud storage technologies, the proliferation of NAS systems for the home, more advanced iPhone's with tighter integration into online services, this became increasingly redundant. While your suggestion of removing device management from iTunes holds some logic to it today, the key is how to manage it going forward, especially in Windows, which (unfortunately) the bulk many iPhone owners still use, and there it has always been the management app for iTunes content, and iDevices.

    As I'm not a software designer, and haven't had much time to think about this, I won't offer any comments as to how Apple should or could go about accomplishing this. However if they were to create a dedicated "Device Manager" so to speak (nor referring to Device Manager in Windows), I actually would still find it annoying, as I enjoy having that ability within iTunes, in one location, where it's all accessible with just a click or two.

    Going back to my original statement, I don't think iTunes should be split apart, just logically reorganized to match the computing trends and standards of a mobile world.
  • Reply 33 of 46
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    As I'm not a software designer, and haven't had much time to think about this, I won't offer any comments as to how Apple should or could go about accomplishing this. However if they were to create a dedicated "Device Manager" so to speak
    I mocked up something like that back before Apple changed their UI to laziness.

  • Reply 34 of 46
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,293member

    iTunes does NOT need to be split up into little itty bitty chunks. I DO agree it is in need for a major upgrade.
    The entire iTunes argument in two sentences, folks.

    But “brand recognition”! Apple is just now barely getting away from the i prefix of the late 1990s. If anything, wouldn’t it be Apple Tunes–stylized as Tunes?
    Woo! Better yet, allow hard drives that contain iTunes Libraries to be directly connected to an AirPort device to eliminate the need for a running computer entirely. Not to say that I want to get rid of traditional computers, just that we shouldn’t need them.
    You’d think that would be obvious, but apparently Apple only uses Swift in Calculator, and there only partially...

    I actually didn't even think of Tunes, not bad, but it would conflict with, and sound odd, when used with Music, wouldn't you agree? Sounds like a similar name for the same thing...

    What you are essentially suggesting is AirPlay Content Services it sounds... A fully independent, AirPlay-detectable streaming host for AirPlay-compatible devices. The concept sounds intriguing, but how would you manage it? Would iTunes be the front-end management tool for those AirPlay shares on network volumes?

    I think moving the code base of an app as complex as iTunes might prove challenging, or perhaps isn't on the highest priority I list for Apple. If you think about it for a moment... Consider if Apple is indeed planning a major overhaul of iTunes, then perhaps that new version, or version of their other apps too, are in the planning stages for Swift re-write within the next few years, that might explain the slow move to Swift with existing systems.
  • Reply 35 of 46
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    I actually didn't even think of Tunes, not bad, but it would conflict with, and sound odd, when used with Music, wouldn't you agree? Sounds like a similar name for the same thing...
    See, THIS is why the Beats acquisition was a bad idea.
    Would iTunes be the front-end management tool for those AirPlay shares on network volumes?
    Yeah, I figured. Just log into the account used by the iTunes Library stored on the LAN-attached HDD on any given computer (blah blah 5 computer limit blah blah; made no sense in the past, makes even less since iDevices have no limit and are becoming ever closer to proper computers–though are still pretty far away but that’s another story and I’m out of English punctuation to further differentiate this idea) or iDevice to add or delete stuff, edit metadata (APPLE LET US EDIT OUR METADATA IN IBOOKS AGAIN FOR THE LOVE OF HUMANITY WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU), etc.
    Consider if Apple is indeed planning a major overhaul of iTunes, then perhaps that new version, or version of their other apps too, are in the planning stages for Swift re-write within the next few years, that might explain the slow move to Swift with existing systems.
    I suppose. If OS XI, multitouch or not, is going to have another new kernel (“OS X sets us up for the next 20 years.” – stated 16 years ago), I figure that the applications that run on it will be fully Swift from the get-go with a Classic/Carbon setup for older software.
    cornchip
  • Reply 36 of 46
    noivadnoivad Posts: 186member
    It’s about time Apple realizes what a mess their UI designers have made of what was once a straight forward app. Trying to describe how to navigate the UI to a person so they can reach the right pane for iOS management is frustrating because there are no labels for the icons. Add to that there’s only one way to reveal certain features because “consistency” is not a word their UI designers understand the importance of, and learning/teaching the features of the app slows to a frustrating crawl. I’m not sure where the pinnacle of iTunes UI was, but it’s been sliding downhill with each release for at least 2–3 major versions.
    edited May 2016 tallest skilpropod
  • Reply 37 of 46
    bestkeptsecretbestkeptsecret Posts: 4,265member
    Yes, I'd love it if iTunes allowed an external hard drive to be attached to a Time Capsule/ Apple TV without the need for a computer running iTunes.
    williamlondontallest skil
  • Reply 38 of 46
    dacloodacloo Posts: 890member
    iTunes die already. 
  • Reply 39 of 46
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,322member

    What you are essentially suggesting is AirPlay Content Services it sounds... A fully independent, AirPlay-detectable streaming host for AirPlay-compatible devices. The concept sounds intriguing, but how would you manage it? Would iTunes be the front-end management tool for those AirPlay shares on network volumes?

    I think moving the code base of an app as complex as iTunes might prove challenging, or perhaps isn't on the highest priority I list for Apple. If you think about it for a moment... Consider if Apple is indeed planning a major overhaul of iTunes, then perhaps that new version, or version of their other apps too, are in the planning stages for Swift re-write within the next few years, that might explain the slow move to Swift with existing systems.
    Why would it need much management?
    Treat it much like they treat Time Machine with a low overhead set up requirement. Indeed have an option on Time Machine to start the Airplay content server with any media you are backing up to that drive. This would cover Airport and compatible NAS hardware (most have iTunes servers in them anyway). Then it's just a matter of Time Machine saving to the right location.

    The other option already Airport Utilities  but to me if it really needs greater management than iCloud accounts could come in to play. Find my iPhone is already in iCloud I think they could expand that with little hassle to cover any device management issues that needed more advanced interface. Take that out of iTunes. Still go further a mix iCloud Music Library with the Time Machine Music library.

  • Reply 40 of 46
    smalmsmalm Posts: 677member
    The shi underwhelming usability of iTunes 12 needs much more than minor UI tweeaks!
    mattinoz
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