Apple TV sales surge with hardware refresh, but still rank 4th in US streaming device market

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 49
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,985member
    It's pretty impressive that a little company like Roku with basically zero advertising has such a large portion of market share. 
    calicornchipcnocbuihjmnl1983
  • Reply 22 of 49
    ericthehalfbeeericthehalfbee Posts: 4,107member
    Meaningless.

    What I want to know is how much revenue these devices are generating. Selling a piece of hardware is one thing - having people purchase content is quite another. I bet the Apple TV crushes all the others in this regard, since it's widely known that iOS users purchase far more content than any other platform.
    williamlondonnolamacguy
  • Reply 23 of 49
    Cobra101Cobra101 Posts: 22member
    No 4K was dumb but then they probably would have had to charge a ton more for it.

    Not really but it is Apple we are talking about.

    But yes, Apple knows what we all want and need and they are ALWAYS right.
  • Reply 24 of 49
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,985member
    Meaningless.

    What I want to know is how much revenue these devices are generating. Selling a piece of hardware is one thing - having people purchase content is quite another. I bet the Apple TV crushes all the others in this regard, since it's widely known that iOS users purchase far more content than any other platform.
    For starters that's a bad comparison. Apple TV doesn't use iOS, it uses tvOS, and just because iOS users purchase more than Android users in the mobile space it doesn’t necessarily mean that it's the same in the TV space. Are there numbers for tvOS TV/movie rentals and purchases vs Amazon, M-Go, and Vudu? 
  • Reply 25 of 49
    peteraltpeteralt Posts: 155member
    ireland said:
    Unsure where you are sourcing your information, but that pricing scheme sounds like Apple.
    If that's legit I wonder what caused the change. I was fully expecting 16 > 128 > 256 or no change at all.
    That totally makes sense because 16 GB just doesn't cut it any more. I hope this is right. Apple in the past hasn't always done what's right, though.
  • Reply 26 of 49
    peteraltpeteralt Posts: 155member
    ireland said:
    Unsure where you are sourcing your information, but that pricing scheme sounds like Apple.
    If that's legit I wonder what caused the change. I was fully expecting 16 > 128 > 256 or no change at all.
    That totally makes sense because 16 GB just doesn't cut it any more. I hope this is right. Apple in the past hasn't always done what's right, though.
  • Reply 27 of 49
    peteraltpeteralt Posts: 155member
    I'm worried that most of Apple's R&D spending is being spent on Project Titan. They really need to spend more on its current product lines, such as the Apple TV, before spending on new business lines.
    cali1983
  • Reply 28 of 49
    Meaningless.

    What I want to know is how much revenue these devices are generating. Selling a piece of hardware is one thing - having people purchase content is quite another. I bet the Apple TV crushes all the others in this regard, since it's widely known that iOS users purchase far more content than any other platform.
    For starters that's a bad comparison. Apple TV doesn't use iOS, it uses tvOS, and just because iOS users purchase more than Android users in the mobile space it doesn’t necessarily mean that it's the same in the TV space. Are there numbers for tvOS TV/movie rentals and purchases vs Amazon, M-Go, and Vudu? 

    Apple TV runs iOS even though it's been "renamed" as tvOS.

    The last study I saw showed Apple with almost 60% of online digital content revenues with Amazon, Google and the rest fighting over the other 40%. They aren't just in first place by a hair - nobody else is even close (Amazon had around 28% and Google 10%). Companies like Roku weren't even on the list. iTunes revenue for a single quarter is more than 25x Rokus entire company revenue (hardware and content).

    iOS users spend 4x as much on Apps. iOS shoppers spend around 5x as much as Android users when shopping online. Apple users spend more in EVERY space.

    To imply the Apple TV is just being used like a Roku or Chrome stick and not generating revenues is asinine.
    edited May 2016 williamlondonnolamacguy
  • Reply 29 of 49
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,985member
    For starters that's a bad comparison. Apple TV doesn't use iOS, it uses tvOS, and just because iOS users purchase more than Android users in the mobile space it doesn’t necessarily mean that it's the same in the TV space. Are there numbers for tvOS TV/movie rentals and purchases vs Amazon, M-Go, and Vudu? 

    Apple TV runs iOS even though it's been "renamed" as tvOS.

    The last study I saw showed Apple with almost 60% of online digital content revenues with Amazon, Google and the rest fighting over the other 40%. They aren't just in first place by a hair - nobody else is even close (Amazon had around 28% and Google 10%). Companies like Roku weren't even on the list. iTunes revenue for a single quarter is more than 25x Rokus entire company revenue (hardware and content).

    iOS users spend 4x as much on Apps. iOS shoppers spend around 5x as much as Android users when shopping online. Apple users spend more in EVERY space.

    To imply the Apple TV is just being used like a Roku or Chrome stick and not generating revenues is asinine.
    Digital content revenue comes from smartphones, tablets, desktop/laptops and TV streamers so of course Apple, Google, and Amazon occupy the top spots. 

    For a little company like Roku to have a 30% market share in the TV streamer market that includes gaming consoles as well as Apple's, Google's, and Amazon's offerings is damn impressive. That percentage of people aren't renting or buying TV shows/movies from Apple, nor Google. 
  • Reply 30 of 49
    ericthehalfbeeericthehalfbee Posts: 4,107member

    Apple TV runs iOS even though it's been "renamed" as tvOS.

    The last study I saw showed Apple with almost 60% of online digital content revenues with Amazon, Google and the rest fighting over the other 40%. They aren't just in first place by a hair - nobody else is even close (Amazon had around 28% and Google 10%). Companies like Roku weren't even on the list. iTunes revenue for a single quarter is more than 25x Rokus entire company revenue (hardware and content).

    iOS users spend 4x as much on Apps. iOS shoppers spend around 5x as much as Android users when shopping online. Apple users spend more in EVERY space.

    To imply the Apple TV is just being used like a Roku or Chrome stick and not generating revenues is asinine.
    Digital content revenue comes from smartphones, tablets, desktop/laptops and TV streamers so of course Apple, Google, and Amazon occupy the top spots. 

    For a little company like Roku to have a 30% market share in the TV streamer market that includes gaming consoles as well as Apple's, Google's, and Amazon's offerings is damn impressive. That percentage of people aren't renting or buying TV shows/movies from Apple, nor Google. 

    They have a 30% share of hardware sales. Hardware sales do not equal digital content sales.

    Rokus tiny revenues are proof their hardware is just being used for free stuff or to watch content from subscriptions where the revenues are going to someone else (like Netflix).

    In fact, I'd bet that the main reason people bought a Roku (and the article even states most Roku units sold were the cheaper "stick" version) was because it's the lowest price and quickest way to add Netflix to their TV.
    patchythepiratewilliamlondonnolamacguy
  • Reply 31 of 49
    I wouldn't class the Fire TV Stick as a "cheap streaming device". The Chromecast definitely is but the Fire Stick has pretty much the full functionality of any android device. I may be wrong but with the exception of siri searching for stuff across apps (which is limited still at the moment), there's not much it can't do that an apple tv can for the substantial price difference. I can even airplay to the sticks. I also prefer the "hidden" away, no cables look of a "stick" device.

    As for Roku, I've no idea why they're so popular. I've had a few different models and they're just so slow, app selection is limited (UK) and the interface seems very basic and dated.
  • Reply 32 of 49
    hjmnlhjmnl Posts: 31member
    Meaningless.

    What I want to know is how much revenue these devices are generating. Selling a piece of hardware is one thing - having people purchase content is quite another. I bet the Apple TV crushes all the others in this regard, since it's widely known that iOS users purchase far more content than any other platform.
    If the device has the same quality and options I chose the best. I hope it's the Apple TV. But as it doesn't do Dutch and can't use Siri here, what's the point of even selling it here. I just visited the media market this morning (our biggest electronic store in the Netherlands) I was shocked by seeing they halved the Apple space. Apple was very prominent there last year but it's losing appeal fast  :(
  • Reply 33 of 49
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,985member
    Digital content revenue comes from smartphones, tablets, desktop/laptops and TV streamers so of course Apple, Google, and Amazon occupy the top spots. 

    For a little company like Roku to have a 30% market share in the TV streamer market that includes gaming consoles as well as Apple's, Google's, and Amazon's offerings is damn impressive. That percentage of people aren't renting or buying TV shows/movies from Apple, nor Google. 

    They have a 30% share of hardware sales. Hardware sales do not equal digital content sales.

    Rokus tiny revenues are proof their hardware is just being used for free stuff or to watch content from subscriptions where the revenues are going to someone else (like Netflix).

    In fact, I'd bet that the main reason people bought a Roku (and the article even states most Roku units sold were the cheaper "stick" version) was because it's the lowest price and quickest way to add Netflix to their TV.
    Read again. 1/3 of the Rokus sold were the stick version, that's not most. Every Roku sold is revenue earning loss for Apple, first in hardware and second in content. 

    Edit: If users are getting Rokus for Netflix then it's doing its job wonderfully because that was the purpose it was made for. 
    edited May 2016
  • Reply 34 of 49
    19831983 Posts: 1,201member
    peteralt said:
    I'm worried that most of Apple's R&D spending is being spent on Project Titan. They really need to spend more on its current product lines, such as the Apple TV, before spending on new business lines.
    I agree, every car company and tech giant on the planet are working on electric vehicles right now. I doubt Apple can offer anything more compelling than is already being prepared by everybody else it seems. Ultimately electric vehicles will become just commodity items with slim profit margins.
  • Reply 35 of 49
    ericthehalfbeeericthehalfbee Posts: 4,107member

    They have a 30% share of hardware sales. Hardware sales do not equal digital content sales.

    Rokus tiny revenues are proof their hardware is just being used for free stuff or to watch content from subscriptions where the revenues are going to someone else (like Netflix).

    In fact, I'd bet that the main reason people bought a Roku (and the article even states most Roku units sold were the cheaper "stick" version) was because it's the lowest price and quickest way to add Netflix to their TV.
    Read again. 1/3 of the Rokus sold were the stick version, that's not most. Every Roku sold is revenue earning loss for Apple, first in hardware and second in content. 

    Edit: If users are getting Rokus for Netflix then it's doing its job wonderfully because that was the purpose it was made for. 

    Yes, I saw that. It was Amazon who sold mainly sticks.

    Regardless, my point still stands (which you seem to want to avoid). Rokus revenues are tiny, meaning they aren't making any money selling content - only hardware. Apple makes billions from their digital content sales, making the Apple TV a much more successful product than the Roku (or anyone else).

    Just like iOS generates far more revenue per user than Android (currently at 4x) the Apple TV is generating far more revenue than all the others out there.
    williamlondonnolamacguy
  • Reply 36 of 49
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,985member
    Roku's revenue is tiny because you keep comparing it to Apple's, which sells digital content on a much larger selection of devices. Now that's asinine. 

    The Roku was initially developed by Netflix, but was then spun off into its own company so that competitors would be able to add their services to it as well, but that list does not include Apple, nor Google. 
  • Reply 37 of 49
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,302member

    They have a 30% share of hardware sales. Hardware sales do not equal digital content sales.

    Rokus tiny revenues are proof their hardware is just being used for free stuff or to watch content from subscriptions where the revenues are going to someone else (like Netflix).

    In fact, I'd bet that the main reason people bought a Roku (and the article even states most Roku units sold were the cheaper "stick" version) was because it's the lowest price and quickest way to add Netflix to their TV.
    Read again. 1/3 of the Rokus sold were the stick version, that's not most. Every Roku sold is revenue earning loss for Apple, first in hardware and second in content. 

    Edit: If users are getting Rokus for Netflix then it's doing its job wonderfully because that was the purpose it was made for. 

    Yes, I saw that. It was Amazon who sold mainly sticks.

    Regardless, my point still stands (which you seem to want to avoid). Rokus revenues are tiny, meaning they aren't making any money selling content - only hardware. Apple makes billions from their digital content sales, making the Apple TV a much more successful product than the Roku (or anyone else).

    Just like iOS generates far more revenue per user than Android (currently at 4x) the Apple TV is generating far more revenue than all the others out there.
    Well of course they do. They passed the tipping point long ago and get richer every day, raking in the profits at the expense of other players. No company on the planet wields the market power that Apple does, or can leverage so many assets to attack, maybe even destroy, any market competition it wants to. Apple is a behemoth.
    dasanman69
  • Reply 38 of 49
    indieshackindieshack Posts: 199member
    My ATV4 is collecting dust; no killer apps and I find the remote horrible to use compared to the Roku and Fire TV; definitely not made for families with kids. I've got Roku's dotted all over the house which my kids can easily use. The reason Roku dominates is price point but mostly because the UI is simple and the remote control chunky and straightforward. The Fire TV software UI is worse than Apple's. Seems to me that the ATV is still a "hobby" at Apple.
  • Reply 39 of 49
    Cobra101Cobra101 Posts: 22member
    My ATV4 is collecting dust; no killer apps and I find the remote horrible to use compared to the Roku and Fire TV; definitely not made for families with kids. I've got Roku's dotted all over the house which my kids can easily use. The reason Roku dominates is price point but mostly because the UI is simple and the remote control chunky and straightforward. The Fire TV software UI is worse than Apple's. Seems to me that the ATV is still a "hobby" at Apple.
    I am okay with the remote. The previous one was an atrocity.
  • Reply 40 of 49
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    We use our new version Apple TV every single day.  We switch HDMI inputs briefly for CNN then go back to Apple TV and Netflix.  My only gripe is Amazon Prime still refusing to create an app.  I love Amazon and Apple, just wish I could have my cake and eat it.  I used to just stream Amazon Prime from an iPad to the Apple TV but that now only works for a few minutes then drops out.  I wonder if that's my end or something deliberate going on.  Same if I try from my new Mac Pro or a new MBA or MBP.
    Amazon refusing to produce an ATV app is annoying me as well. I continue to AirPlay it from an iPad without much issue. 
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