The progressive naïveté is remarkable. You think Cook, Apple and Obama/Clinton can change the hearts and minds of people in this world that would kill gays, outspoken women and Christians 1st? Fools. Chamberlain tried appeasement. Millions dead.
“Could it be because we keep moving ideologically left despite the vast majority of the population not wanting anything remotely close to that?”
WHAT??!!! Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment, but you think the Republican party has been moving Left??? What leading Republican of the recent past was more conservative than any leading Republican today? No political historian or analyst on either side of the aisle would agree with that. Bush II, Bush I, Reagan, Nixon and Eisenhower were all far more centrist than any leading Republican today, which is why the Republican Party can't win the White House (local elections are a different matter). It's quite clear that both parties have been moving Right. While I know the conventional wisdom of conservatives is that Obama is a raging socialist leftist, he's really right of center on just about every issue. It's just that Republicans have moved so far to the Right he seems extreme.
And if we were to go by popular election results, it's not accurate that the "vast majority of the population not wanting anything remotely close to that" (Republicans moving Left). Obama did win the 2012 and 2008 general election. Bush won in 2004 with just 50.7% of the popular vote. Al Gore lost the electoral vote in 2000, but won the popular vote. Clinton won in 1996 and 1992, although in '92, he won with only 43% of the popular vote since Perot took almost 19%. I think the best one can say is that the country (at least the people who vote) is pretty much split down the middle, although I predict Hillary wins in a landslide, but with low voter turnout, since a lot of Republicans are going to not vote, since they hate both candidates. (There are those on the Left who hate both candidates as well, but I think they're a bit more likely to hold their nose and vote for Clinton.)
If nothing else, Trump already said he would force Apple to produce all iPhones in the United States. That's enough reason to pull out even aside from his other crazy stuff.
Which he can't actually do. This is just fodder for Trump's supporters who think they've gotten screwed by manufacturing leaving the U.S. The only thing Trump can do is support import taxes, which he's threatening to do, but which Congress will NEVER pass. He can't implement import taxes by presidential decree.
And the end result of a 25% to 35% import tax is a 25% to 35% rise in prices, which STILL wouldn't bring jobs back to the U.S. and it would cause a trade war as China and India retaliated and placed import taxes on U.S. products. That would crash the economy (and the stock market). Study after study has shown that Americans, who are hypocritical, are not willing to pay much more for goods in order to save American jobs.
Emotionally, such an import tax has an appeal, but in the real world, it would never work. I don't know whether Trump realizes that he has no chance of getting anything through Congress or not (since he'll be hated by BOTH sides of the aisle).
Frankly, I don't think Trump really wants to be President. I think he's been trying desperately to fail - I have a hard time believing he's as stupid as he appears. I believe that he never thought he'd make it this far - that this was originally intended to be a marketing exercise for Trump. I think he wants out of this so he can go back to his companies. He's in way over his head and all signs point to a disaster and maybe even Dems once again taking control of the Senate. There's talk that some western states could vote Democratic for the first time decades, not that Hillary would need those states to win. Trump really has only one path to the White House: he has to win both Florida and Pennsylvania. If he does that, while Clinton can still win mathematically, it would be unlikely unless enough western states flipped to make up for the 20 lost Pennsylvania electoral votes.
I think a year from now we'll be thinking about Trump the way we now think of Ross Perot - not much at all. And if he somehow did become POTUS, my bet is that he manages to get himself impeached by the end of 2018. Either that or Congress pretty much ignores him and passes bills without him.
I think the headline is incorrect. Apple is not taking this stand against Trump because of his politics. They're taking a stand against Trump because of his racism, sexism, vulgarity, xenophobia and Islamophobia. Those aren't political positions - they're just hate. And probably because he urged a boycott of Apple products, even though he didn't take part in his own boycott.
I think the headline is incorrect. Apple is not taking this stand against Trump because of his politics. They're taking a stand against Trump because of his racism, sexism, vulgarity, xenophobia and Islamophobia. Those aren't political positions - they're just hate. And probably because he urged a boycott of Apple products, even though he didn't take part in his own boycott.
Plus one other reason that just occurred to me. The nomination of Trump is likely to be contested. Some cabal of the party mainstream will make a move on him, etc. You fill in the plot.
They've already figured this out or heard about it in Silicon Valley. All those companies will keep their distance from the convention mess so as not to have anyone pointing a finger at the IT or tech support as co-conspirators.
zoetmb said: Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment, but you think the Republican party has been moving Left???
Yep.
What leading Republican of the recent past was more conservative than any leading Republican today?
Every. single. last. fucking. one. of. them. Read a history book and you’d see that. Is this a sick joke, or do people REALLY think that they can magically change reality just by saying things? Since when is openly telling border guards to stand down not fucking leftist? Are you honestly going to tell me that the country has been moving “rightward” when this has never happened before (and history tells us that border crossers were once just fucking shot)?
No political historian or analyst on either side of the aisle would agree with that.
Fucking prove it, then. Prove your delusions. This ought to be a genuine hoot. I need a laugh; I’ve been drying up lately. Boy, if I could find the 1960 Republican Party Platform booklet that I still have... Never mind the Democrat one.
Bush II, Bush I, Reagan, Nixon and Eisenhower were all far more centrist than any leading Republican today
Being far more centrist (leftist) than Trump (the leading Republican today) isn’t saying much, since Trump is only pushing the Overton window back about 30 years. Eisenhower deported the illegals (and actually put America first), so he’s further right than any of the neocons. The rest of the “leading Republicans” are fucking globalists who are parroting the Democrat platform of ten fucking years ago.
which is why the Republican Party can't win the White House (local elections are a different matter).
Complete bullshit. Where are you even getting this garbage? Do you think the universe was created yesterday? Are you a believer in the... I forget the name for it–the thing where people think the universe was created five minutes ago and our memories are just delusions that were created as the baseline state thereof?
It's quite clear that both parties have been moving Right.
That’s why marxists are openly calling for (and getting approved) their policies. That’s why gun control is the universal topic in the media instead of gun ownership. That’s why the psychosis of egalitarianism has become the foundation of government policy. Are you kidding me? Have you paid any attention to the last seventy fucking years?
Apple ][ is a nutcase radical, but he’s right when he says, “The longer you put it off, the harder the blowback will be.” I tend to view that strictly as a warning regarding the state of economic affairs, but when the lie of keynesianism is exposed and the world is in a second great depression because of it, there’ll be a lot of people who just don’t care about being... nice... about anything else either.
he's really right of center on just about every issue.
Not by any objective measurement and CERTAINLY not by the subjective scale of American politics.
I think the best one can say is that the country (at least the people who vote) is pretty much split down the middle
That’s a different topic, and there’s no good answer to it. My best thought would be to abolish WTA in the electoral college, which forces every state to be a battleground state. That would probably exact the biggest safe, since it would allow smaller parties to get individual EVs and somewhat have their say without turning the country into a mess like the Europeans have.
Do you really believe that the military is not doing all they can to defeat ISIS?
Should the military commit war crimes and purposely kill innocent civilians?
Do you have children in the military? (you never answered)
1. Absolutely. An advanced army like ours can totally wipe out ISIS if that was the objective. It's not the military's fault of course, our military people are great, but Obama is deliberately not wanting to get rid of ISIS. It's obviously not a big deal to him. And our military is forced to fight with their hands tied behind their backs, because of disgraceful and immoral PC rules that have been imposed on them.
2. It would depend by what you mean when you write "innocent civilians". I would guess that my definition is not the same that many on the left hold. For example, a terrorist's family does not qualify as innocent civilians, and they should not be afforded any such protections.
3. No.
We kind of had an idea of what kind of person you were, but know we know what kind of person you are. I feel sorry for you and those around you.
The progressive naïveté is remarkable. You think Cook, Apple and Obama/Clinton can change the hearts and minds of people in this world that would kill gays, outspoken women and Christians 1st? Fools. Chamberlain tried appeasement. Millions dead.
Which is exactly why Apple are early in denying support to the fascist prick, before anybody accuses them of appeasing him.
pjmazz said: Based on this information.... I will Not be replacing any Of My Families Apple Products (3 iPhones, 3iPads , 2 Apple Computers & 2 Apple TV's ) with Apple Products. I have had enough of Tim Cooks Two faced , BS. Its decisions like this and others that will continue to bring Apple Down. You all have a Great Day.. I'm going shopping for a new Phone today.... FUN...
I'm pretty sure that Apple neither needs nor wants your business.
1. Absolutely. An advanced army like ours can totally wipe out ISIS if that was the objective. It's not the military's fault of course, our military people are great, but Obama is deliberately not wanting to get rid of ISIS. It's obviously not a big deal to him. And our military is forced to fight with their hands tied behind their backs, because of disgraceful and immoral PC rules that have been imposed on them.
2. It would depend by what you mean when you write "innocent civilians". I would guess that my definition is not the same that many on the left hold. For example, a terrorist's family does not qualify as innocent civilians, and they should not be afforded any such protections.
3. No.
We kind of had an idea of what kind of person you were, but know we know what kind of person you are. I feel sorry for you and those around you.
Not at all. They have refused to sponsor a politician that wants people to boycott Apple and to harm Apples business by making it harder for them to compete. They are acting responsible as a company, seeking to optimize profit for their owners. They are doing exactly what they should do.
How is it "harmful" to Apple and America to want any US business to manufacture in the United States in support of US jobs? How is it harmful to Apple to support allowing Apple to bring it's cash back into the US at highly reduced tax rates so as to allow Apple to invest in US manufacturing?
US manufacturing is gone for good unless the workers are replaced with automation. Mass customization (one-off products, including 3D printing, automated assembly, etc.) is another route for manufacturing that is still evolving. Labor is the biggest expense in the manufacturing calculus compared to other countries which still have skilled labor and the kind of supply chain Apple would need. The supply chain no longer exists in our country. Manufacturing has been replaced with a service-based economy and that is something even China is now shooting for.
CEO Cook would have a point if candiate Trump had actually made statements demeaning all women, demeaning all members of a minority, or demeaning all immigrants. But he has not. This popular anti-Trump meme is a complete fabrication, which is why you never see the supposed quotes. Insulting a specific woman is not an attack on all women. Border security is not racism. And it is not Islamaphobia to acknowledge facts about the Orlando shooter. . Teh shooter declared himself a Muslim Jihadist who was inspired by Islam and ISIS, and said he was angry that Obama is bombing his country. ISIS also took credit for his acts, completely consistant with islam's views on homosexuality. I think Cook owns Trump an opology.
Fun thread. I hope we can all agree that we're screwed no matter who we support or vote against.
Actually there's no reason to agree with that. I can easily foresee another cultural renaissance like we went through in the 1960s, which a lot of you victims of Nancy Reagan and Richard Nixon never knew the joys of.
In this reading, the tea leaves don't even require Hillary to be another JFK, though that would help. All that's needed would be a little opening of Nature's pharmacy, which is already underway — again.
I think the headline is incorrect. Apple is not taking this stand against Trump because of his politics. They're taking a stand against Trump because of his racism, sexism, vulgarity, xenophobia and Islamophobia. Those aren't political positions - they're just hate. And probably because he urged a boycott of Apple products, even though he didn't take part in his own boycott.
"My conclusion so far is that you cannot take an absolutist view on this. So if your argument is ‘strong encryption no matter what, and we can and should in fact create black boxes,’ that I think does not strike the kind of balance we have lived with for 200, 300 years. And it’s fetishizing our phones above every other value, and that can’t be the right answer."
—Pres. Barack Obama at SXSW, March 11, 2016
Gee, that argument against the constitutionally guaranteed "right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures" is so much better when delivered by a friendly face, amirite?
SpamSandwich said: Gee, that argument against the constitutionally guaranteed "right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures" is so much better when delivered by a friendly face, amirite?
Having blood taken against your will “doesn’t” violate the Constitution, either, but we all know who’s responsible for that treason, even if we don’t want to admit it...
Comments
And if we were to go by popular election results, it's not accurate that the "vast majority of the population not wanting anything remotely close to that" (Republicans moving Left). Obama did win the 2012 and 2008 general election. Bush won in 2004 with just 50.7% of the popular vote. Al Gore lost the electoral vote in 2000, but won the popular vote. Clinton won in 1996 and 1992, although in '92, he won with only 43% of the popular vote since Perot took almost 19%. I think the best one can say is that the country (at least the people who vote) is pretty much split down the middle, although I predict Hillary wins in a landslide, but with low voter turnout, since a lot of Republicans are going to not vote, since they hate both candidates. (There are those on the Left who hate both candidates as well, but I think they're a bit more likely to hold their nose and vote for Clinton.)
And the end result of a 25% to 35% import tax is a 25% to 35% rise in prices, which STILL wouldn't bring jobs back to the U.S. and it would cause a trade war as China and India retaliated and placed import taxes on U.S. products. That would crash the economy (and the stock market). Study after study has shown that Americans, who are hypocritical, are not willing to pay much more for goods in order to save American jobs.
Emotionally, such an import tax has an appeal, but in the real world, it would never work. I don't know whether Trump realizes that he has no chance of getting anything through Congress or not (since he'll be hated by BOTH sides of the aisle).
Frankly, I don't think Trump really wants to be President. I think he's been trying desperately to fail - I have a hard time believing he's as stupid as he appears. I believe that he never thought he'd make it this far - that this was originally intended to be a marketing exercise for Trump. I think he wants out of this so he can go back to his companies. He's in way over his head and all signs point to a disaster and maybe even Dems once again taking control of the Senate. There's talk that some western states could vote Democratic for the first time decades, not that Hillary would need those states to win. Trump really has only one path to the White House: he has to win both Florida and Pennsylvania. If he does that, while Clinton can still win mathematically, it would be unlikely unless enough western states flipped to make up for the 20 lost Pennsylvania electoral votes.
I think a year from now we'll be thinking about Trump the way we now think of Ross Perot - not much at all. And if he somehow did become POTUS, my bet is that he manages to get himself impeached by the end of 2018. Either that or Congress pretty much ignores him and passes bills without him.
They've already figured this out or heard about it in Silicon Valley. All those companies will keep their distance from the convention mess so as not to have anyone pointing a finger at the IT or tech support as co-conspirators.
Every. single. last. fucking. one. of. them. Read a history book and you’d see that. Is this a sick joke, or do people REALLY think that they can magically change reality just by saying things? Since when is openly telling border guards to stand down not fucking leftist? Are you honestly going to tell me that the country has been moving “rightward” when this has never happened before (and history tells us that border crossers were once just fucking shot)?
Fucking prove it, then. Prove your delusions. This ought to be a genuine hoot. I need a laugh; I’ve been drying up lately. Boy, if I could find the 1960 Republican Party Platform booklet that I still have... Never mind the Democrat one.
Being far more centrist (leftist) than Trump (the leading Republican today) isn’t saying much, since Trump is only pushing the Overton window back about 30 years. Eisenhower deported the illegals (and actually put America first), so he’s further right than any of the neocons. The rest of the “leading Republicans” are fucking globalists who are parroting the Democrat platform of ten fucking years ago.
Complete bullshit. Where are you even getting this garbage? Do you think the universe was created yesterday? Are you a believer in the... I forget the name for it–the thing where people think the universe was created five minutes ago and our memories are just delusions that were created as the baseline state thereof?
That’s why marxists are openly calling for (and getting approved) their policies. That’s why gun control is the universal topic in the media instead of gun ownership. That’s why the psychosis of egalitarianism has become the foundation of government policy. Are you kidding me? Have you paid any attention to the last seventy fucking years?
Apple ][ is a nutcase radical, but he’s right when he says, “The longer you put it off, the harder the blowback will be.” I tend to view that strictly as a warning regarding the state of economic affairs, but when the lie of keynesianism is exposed and the world is in a second great depression because of it, there’ll be a lot of people who just don’t care about being... nice... about anything else either.
Not by any objective measurement and CERTAINLY not by the subjective scale of American politics.
That’s a different topic, and there’s no good answer to it. My best thought would be to abolish WTA in the electoral college, which forces every state to be a battleground state. That would probably exact the biggest safe, since it would allow smaller parties to get individual EVs and somewhat have their say without turning the country into a mess like the Europeans have.
As a Bernie supporter, both parties are bought and paid for for and need to go bye-bye.
In this reading, the tea leaves don't even require Hillary to be another JFK, though that would help. All that's needed would be a little opening of Nature's pharmacy, which is already underway — again.
"My conclusion so far is that you cannot take an absolutist view on this. So if your argument is ‘strong encryption no matter what, and we can and should in fact create black boxes,’ that I think does not strike the kind of balance we have lived with for 200, 300 years. And it’s fetishizing our phones above every other value, and that can’t be the right answer."
—Pres. Barack Obama at SXSW, March 11, 2016
Gee, that argument against the constitutionally guaranteed "right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures" is so much better when delivered by a friendly face, amirite?