Apple refuses to back GOP convention because of Trump politics

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Comments

  • Reply 261 of 278
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    why- said:
    why are only certain people on this site allowed to cuss? no relevant to the conversation, just curious
    That seems weird. I can see it being physically possible to keep it behind a post count restriction or something, but the idea of doing so is silly.

    xbit said:
    I thought that this was the libertarian dream? 
    It may be, but they’re rather nuts in the first place. At least their brazils wouldn’t cost any more...  :p
  • Reply 262 of 278
    why-why- Posts: 305member
    why- said:
    why are only certain people on this site allowed to cuss? no relevant to the conversation, just curious
    That seems weird. I can see it being physically possible to keep it behind a post count restriction or something, but the idea of doing so is silly.
    I just remember a while ago I made a comment with some strong language and it was edited not too long after, but it seems the older members can get away with it
    SpamSandwichjackansi
  • Reply 263 of 278
    r2d2r2d2 Posts: 95member
    r2d2 said:
    We kind of had an idea of what kind of person you were, but know we know what kind of person you are. I feel sorry for you and those around you.
    The cost of tinfoil alone must be staggering.
    If wearing a tinfoil hat would keep me from understanding how people can suggest committing war crimes and the killing of innocent people then I would gladly pay the price. I never want to become what I'm fighting against.
    SpamSandwichbaconstangsingularityjackansi
  • Reply 264 of 278
    TurboPGTTurboPGT Posts: 355member
    zoetmb said:
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment, but you think the Republican party has been moving Left???
    Yep.
    Every. single. last. fucking. one. of. them. Read a history book and you’d see that. Is this a sick joke, or do people REALLY think that they can magically change reality just by saying things? Since when is openly telling border guards to stand down not fucking leftist? Are you honestly going to tell me that the country has been moving “rightward” when this has never happened before (and history tells us that border crossers were once just fucking shot)?
    Fucking prove it, then. Prove your delusions. This ought to be a genuine hoot. I need a laugh; I’ve been drying up lately. Boy, if I could find the 1960 Republican Party Platform booklet that I still have... Never mind the Democrat one.
    Being far more centrist (leftist) than Trump (the leading Republican today) isn’t saying much, since Trump is only pushing the Overton window back about 30 years. Eisenhower deported the illegals (and actually put America first), so he’s further right than any of the neocons. The rest of the “leading Republicans” are fucking globalists who are parroting the Democrat platform of ten fucking years ago.
    Complete bullshit. Where are you even getting this garbage? Do you think the universe was created yesterday? Are you a believer in the... I forget the name for it–the thing where people think the universe was created five minutes ago and our memories are just delusions that were created as the baseline state thereof?
    That’s why marxists are openly calling for (and getting approved) their policies. That’s why gun control is the universal topic in the media instead of gun ownership. That’s why the psychosis of egalitarianism has become the foundation of government policy. Are you kidding me? Have you paid any attention to the last seventy fucking years?

    Apple ][ is a nutcase radical, but he’s right when he says, “The longer you put it off, the harder the blowback will be.” I tend to view that strictly as a warning regarding the state of economic affairs, but when the lie of keynesianism is exposed and the world is in a second great depression because of it, there’ll be a lot of people who just don’t care about being... nice... about anything else either. 
    Not by any objective measurement and CERTAINLY not by the subjective scale of American politics.
    That’s a different topic, and there’s no good answer to it. My best thought would be to abolish WTA in the electoral college, which forces every state to be a battleground state. That would probably exact the biggest safe, since it would allow smaller parties to get individual EVs and somewhat have their say without turning the country into a mess like the Europeans have.

    I have to wonder why your post got 6 dislikes. I guess there are people that think criminals should not go to jail, they should be president instead.
    SpamSandwichtallest skil
  • Reply 265 of 278
    TurboPGTTurboPGT Posts: 355member

    flaneur said:

    "Take back our country" and "make America great again" are transparent, desperate code for going backwards into the dominance of white-bread capitalist culture.

    And what the fuck was "HOPE AND CHANGE"? 
    edited June 2016 tallest skil
  • Reply 266 of 278
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member

    That's a delightful image.
    tallest skil
  • Reply 267 of 278
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    TurboPGT said:

    flaneur said:
    "Take back our country" and "make America great again" are transparent, desperate code for going backwards into the dominance of white-bread capitalist culture.

    And what the fuck was "HOPE AND CHANGE"? 
    No one knows because neither ever happened.
    tallest skilTurboPGT
  • Reply 268 of 278
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    No one knows because neither ever happened.

    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 269 of 278
    libertyforalllibertyforall Posts: 1,418member
    tallest skil said:
    Gary Johnson, the man who literally BOUGHT BACK A GUN as his first action as candidate. Really screaming ‘I support American values’ there, Gar-bear.

    Never mind the abject failings of libertarian ideology in the first place...

    Libertarianism is freedom, i.e. the reason we celebrate Independence Day, it's not just the 4th of July! -- liberty in both social and economic matters.  


  • Reply 270 of 278
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Libertarianism is freedom, i.e. the reason we celebrate Independence Day

    The problem with libertarianism as an ideology is that it lacks a full two-thirds of what encompasses a system of belief. Economy, society, and government comprise the full range of ideological belief, but libertarianism is exclusively an economic school of thought. Economics alone does not a civilization make.

    Libertarianism, economically, feels rather agreeable. A man is entitled to the sweat of his brow and the fruits of his labor. A man has no obligation–legal or moral–to strangers, nor to his neighbors save such behaviors that would make them reciprocate and do well by him. This is why libertarians eschew welfare for systems that would provide jobs to those on welfare so that they may provide for themselves. Libertarianism is most often characterized as being for a completely free market–ending all government subsidies and letting any business, no matter the size or category, fail if its practices lead to failure.

    But that is where libertarianism ends. No regard for social behaviors has been made, and so when libertarians in the political scene are forced to speak of social issues, their only reply is to copy their economic doctrines, change applicable words, and paste them into place… with disastrous results. They have translated their wholly free market economy into a wholly free market for the purchase of product. Any product. Under libertarianism, any drug of any sort would be available to anyone with enough currency to procure it, and the price of the drug would be dictated, of course, by the free market. Heroin, ecstasy, marijuana, morphine, vicodin–all drugs–available without script or restriction of quantity. Any and all behaviors–sodomy, pederasty, pedophilia, bestiality–all acceptable. Private ownership of nuclear weaponry–as well as the raw materials to build and distribute such–legal. Libertarianism’s utter lack of regard for social protection makes it a nigh-genocidal ideology.

    Governmentally, libertarianism fares slightly better, but even then its copy/pasting leads to a political body that cannot effectively govern in any respect. Libertarians are often said to want “small government”–which, were it true, is a noble cause–but libertarianism demands virtually private government, which is definitionally oxymoronic. To give an example of libertarianism’s lack of government, a typical criticism in this aspect is, “Who would build the roads?” The US Constitution stipulates that the government must “establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.” Government organization and implementation of national infrastructure falls under both defense and welfare. Regarding tranquility, libertarianism would remove all noise and behavioral ordinances, as that restricts freedom on a personal level (again, falling back to the absolute “free market” parody).

    There are aspects of libertarianism which are commendable. In the broadest sense, their desires for less centralized government control over the economy, providence, and society are commendable, as most of today’s governments are, by the reckoning of the Founders, entirely totalitarian. However, libertarianism fails to comprehend that there is a healthy scope of government–indeed that general well-being is a charge of government itself–and fails in the one thing in which it purports to believe: the freedom of the individual to pursue success, protected–not from failure–but from the syndicates, cabals, and individuals who would seek to take that from him.

    The fact of the matter is that libertarians can’t admit that their ideology is dying because people are realizing how stupid and ineffectual it is and can’t admit to themselves that it was invented and perpetuated by people who want to live in a world where the only thing that matters is economics, everything is openly owned by private entities, and all of their degeneracy and sociopathic criminality is not only impossible to speak out against without violating their “freedoms” but institutionally encouraged and rewarded.

    Libertarianism is a desire to cherrypick what works out of traditionalism and classic conservatism while still permitting culture to be as libertine as possible. It is the movement of people who want to fix the world but don’t want to go through the pain of changing themselves. They want to believe that you can solve these problems by shuffling laws around and giving people more freedom than they already have.

    Giving people the freedom to destroy themselves and their societies and not enforcing any sort of culture that shames them for doing this is exactly what got us into this mess to begin with, and libertarianism has absolutely no answer to it. It is a failed ideology and it has completely failed to provide any sort of compelling argument for why it should exist and why it is worth perpetuating or propping up. To the libertarian, every man lives in his own little self-contained universe and the things he does mostly only effect himself. It’s hopelessly solipsistic and narcissistic.

    People don’t live in self-contained microcosms. If I do heroin, I’m not “just” hurting myself. I’m hurting my community. I’m hurting my fellow taxpayers who are paying to subsidize my bad decisions. I’m hurting my nation and my people by not only failing to live up to my true potential but by becoming an active burden that they need to take care of.

    Libertarians refuse to see this or pretend that it is not relevant. Their entire ideology is based off of a deeply-rooted blend of “Me-ism” and materialism. That is why it will never work and will always fail whenever attempts are made to implement it. The only reason libertarians are less dangerous than communists is because communists will always start killing people to try and force their ideology to work while libertarians will just collapse inwards and be fiscally ruined and culturally scrubbed by competitors less burdened by a sense of morality and fair play.


    If I’ve misunderstood anything, please let me know.
  • Reply 271 of 278
    n0bodyn0body Posts: 7member
    Apple refuses to give money that Trump didn't ask for. I suppose they turned down "republicans" that did ask just so Apple could get a word in.
  • Reply 272 of 278
    n0bodyn0body Posts: 7member
    sector7g said:
    weathers said:
    I'm not a Trump fan and I am an Apple product user, but I find it ironic that Apple (Tim Cook) doesn't seem to mind selling their products in countries who degrade women and persecute  gays and lesbians. The hypocrisy of either party is getting to ridiculous levels.

    I hate this particular argument, as it basically suggests if you can't save the entire world, you shouldn't try anywhere. Apple is a US based company and if it's going to try and make a difference it will have more impact at home, than in a foreign country. 

    Then again... Apple's war chest was built on the backs of child slaves. As long as people don't have to see it, Apple doesn't seem to mind. http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30548468

    Apple is first to lean on states that when it comes to bathroom laws like in NC. I'm glad tech companies are stepping in on that.
  • Reply 273 of 278
    n0bodyn0body Posts: 7member
    jungmark said:
    I don't think Apple should pick sides no matter how disastrous a Trump presidency would be. 
    Apple is a corporation that already gets a superdelegate vote in the democratic convention. Apple's stockholders shouldn't be leading social change... it's inherently retarded.
  • Reply 274 of 278
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Libertarianism is freedom, i.e. the reason we celebrate Independence Day

    The problem with libertarianism as an ideology is that it lacks a full two-thirds of what encompasses a system of belief. Economy, society, and government comprise the full range of ideological belief, but libertarianism is exclusively an economic school of thought. Economics alone does not a civilization make.

    Libertarianism, economically, feels rather agreeable. A man is entitled to the sweat of his brow and the fruits of his labor. A man has no obligation–legal or moral–to strangers, nor to his neighbors save such behaviors that would make them reciprocate and do well by him. This is why libertarians eschew welfare for systems that would provide jobs to those on welfare so that they may provide for themselves. Libertarianism is most often characterized as being for a completely free market–ending all government subsidies and letting any business, no matter the size or category, fail if its practices lead to failure.

    But that is where libertarianism ends. No regard for social behaviors has been made, and so when libertarians in the political scene are forced to speak of social issues, their only reply is to copy their economic doctrines, change applicable words, and paste them into place… with disastrous results. They have translated their wholly free market economy into a wholly free market for the purchase of product. Any product. Under libertarianism, any drug of any sort would be available to anyone with enough currency to procure it, and the price of the drug would be dictated, of course, by the free market. Heroin, ecstasy, marijuana, morphine, vicodin–all drugs–available without script or restriction of quantity. Any and all behaviors–sodomy, pederasty, pedophilia, bestiality–all acceptable. Private ownership of nuclear weaponry–as well as the raw materials to build and distribute such–legal. Libertarianism’s utter lack of regard for social protection makes it a nigh-genocidal ideology.

    Governmentally, libertarianism fares slightly better, but even then its copy/pasting leads to a political body that cannot effectively govern in any respect. Libertarians are often said to want “small government”–which, were it true, is a noble cause–but libertarianism demands virtually private government, which is definitionally oxymoronic. To give an example of libertarianism’s lack of government, a typical criticism in this aspect is, “Who would build the roads?” The US Constitution stipulates that the government must “establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.” Government organization and implementation of national infrastructure falls under both defense and welfare. Regarding tranquility, libertarianism would remove all noise and behavioral ordinances, as that restricts freedom on a personal level (again, falling back to the absolute “free market” parody).

    There are aspects of libertarianism which are commendable. In the broadest sense, their desires for less centralized government control over the economy, providence, and society are commendable, as most of today’s governments are, by the reckoning of the Founders, entirely totalitarian. However, libertarianism fails to comprehend that there is a healthy scope of government–indeed that general well-being is a charge of government itself–and fails in the one thing in which it purports to believe: the freedom of the individual to pursue success, protected–not from failure–but from the syndicates, cabals, and individuals who would seek to take that from him.

    The fact of the matter is that libertarians can’t admit that their ideology is dying because people are realizing how stupid and ineffectual it is and can’t admit to themselves that it was invented and perpetuated by people who want to live in a world where the only thing that matters is economics, everything is openly owned by private entities, and all of their degeneracy and sociopathic criminality is not only impossible to speak out against without violating their “freedoms” but institutionally encouraged and rewarded.

    Libertarianism is a desire to cherrypick what works out of traditionalism and classic conservatism while still permitting culture to be as libertine as possible. It is the movement of people who want to fix the world but don’t want to go through the pain of changing themselves. They want to believe that you can solve these problems by shuffling laws around and giving people more freedom than they already have.

    Giving people the freedom to destroy themselves and their societies and not enforcing any sort of culture that shames them for doing this is exactly what got us into this mess to begin with, and libertarianism has absolutely no answer to it. It is a failed ideology and it has completely failed to provide any sort of compelling argument for why it should exist and why it is worth perpetuating or propping up. To the libertarian, every man lives in his own little self-contained universe and the things he does mostly only effect himself. It’s hopelessly solipsistic and narcissistic.

    People don’t live in self-contained microcosms. If I do heroin, I’m not “just” hurting myself. I’m hurting my community. I’m hurting my fellow taxpayers who are paying to subsidize my bad decisions. I’m hurting my nation and my people by not only failing to live up to my true potential but by becoming an active burden that they need to take care of.

    Libertarians refuse to see this or pretend that it is not relevant. Their entire ideology is based off of a deeply-rooted blend of “Me-ism” and materialism. That is why it will never work and will always fail whenever attempts are made to implement it. The only reason libertarians are less dangerous than communists is because communists will always start killing people to try and force their ideology to work while libertarians will just collapse inwards and be fiscally ruined and culturally scrubbed by competitors less burdened by a sense of morality and fair play.


    If I’ve misunderstood anything, please let me know.
    Economics does play a large part of Libertarianism, but besides the core ideas of personal freedom and self-responsibility is the non-aggression principle.

    Here's an interesting discussion specifically addressing the "privately owned nukes" misconception: http://libertarianviewpoint.com/blog/libertarians-on-nuclear-weapons/

    Now, some counter-arguments against Libertarianism are that people are, in fact terrible, scheming, violent and tend to act as mobs in order to crush dissent, but that's what our Constitution and the Bill of Rights are there for. Perhaps ultimately someone far worse than Hillary, Obama or Bush will sweep away these protections and impose martial law nationwide or attempt to squash all opposition, but that's why the widespread exercise of our 2nd Amendment rights is important now.
    edited June 2016 tallest skil
  • Reply 275 of 278
    libertyforalllibertyforall Posts: 1,418member

    TODAY! -CNN Libertarian Presidential Town Hall hosted by Chris Cuomo w/Gary Johnson and William Weld 

    part 1:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0oo5u-geMA

    part 2:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6hs3H2fTdE

    part 3:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBoBfjDFsYs

    part 4:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz4kdERkg2E


    http://johnsonweld.com

  • Reply 276 of 278
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,615member
    n0body said:
    sector7g said:
    weathers said:
    I'm not a Trump fan and I am an Apple product user, but I find it ironic that Apple (Tim Cook) doesn't seem to mind selling their products in countries who degrade women and persecute  gays and lesbians. The hypocrisy of either party is getting to ridiculous levels.

    I hate this particular argument, as it basically suggests if you can't save the entire world, you shouldn't try anywhere. Apple is a US based company and if it's going to try and make a difference it will have more impact at home, than in a foreign country. 

    Then again... Apple's war chest was built on the backs of child slaves. As long as people don't have to see it, Apple doesn't seem to mind. http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30548468

    Apple is first to lean on states that when it comes to bathroom laws like in NC. I'm glad tech companies are stepping in on that. 
    Check out the guy who didn't read the BBC article he linked to, and which included a long response from Apple...
  • Reply 277 of 278
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member

    TODAY! -CNN Libertarian Presidential Town Hall hosted by Chris Cuomo w/Gary Johnson and William Weld 

    part 1:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0oo5u-geMA

    part 2:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6hs3H2fTdE

    part 3:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBoBfjDFsYs

    part 4:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz4kdERkg2E


    http://johnsonweld.com

    I support most Libertarian ideals, but to be honest the candidates have been pretty lousy of late.
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