Spotify says Apple rejected update over App Store policies, 'causing grave harm' to service

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  • Reply 21 of 143
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,541member
    freerange said:
    I'm glad Spotify is doing this. Apple should allow subscription apps to offer a redirect to the browser to sign up. There's no reason Apple should be taking 30% of someone's monthly Spotify fee. They're not hosting any content. And it certainly doesn't cost them $3 to process the credit card transaction. Google allows alternate payment methods. Apple should do the same. How hard would it be for Spotify to have a link in the app that takes you out to Safari to sign up? It wouldn't be. This is all about $$$ for Apple. 
    Seriously????? That's an absolutely ridiculous position. Apple built and maintains their iOS platform at great expense, and has invested BILLIONS in developing their user base, and you think Spotify should get a free ride for their competitive paid subscription as they have access to over 1 BILLION Apple devices? Which would in fact be special treatment compared to every other paid service in the AppStore. The reality is that Spotify, an Apple Music competitor, is allowed in the Apple AppStore, and further, has their free ad supported program available for download in the store at ZERO cost to them and their users. What could be more fair than that for a direct competitor to Apple?
    That person has a number of absolutely ridiculous positions - this is just one of them.
  • Reply 22 of 143
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 3,182member
    latifbp said:

    All Spotify paying users should be questioning why Spotify needles its customers by forcing them to pay business operation expenses. That 30% fee is a business expense, one they can and I'm sure they do write off at tax time. BUT, not only do they write it off (so it doesn't cost them much or anything at all) but they force you, their customer, to pay more anyway. They're screwing you and any other dope who decides to believe this victim sob story.
    Spotify never sees the +30% they add to iOS-based subscriptions--there's nothing to write off. That +30% goes to Apple.
    singularity
  • Reply 23 of 143
    redefilerredefiler Posts: 323member
    brucemc said:
    freerange said:
    Seriously????? That's an absolutely ridiculous position. Apple built and maintains their iOS platform at great expense, and has invested BILLIONS in developing their user base, and you think Spotify should get a free ride for their competitive paid subscription as they have access to over 1 BILLION Apple devices? Which would in fact be special treatment compared to every other paid service in the AppStore. The reality is that Spotify, an Apple Music competitor, is allowed in the Apple AppStore, and further, has their free ad supported program available for download in the store at ZERO cost to them and their users. What could be more fair than that for a direct competitor to Apple?
    That person has a number of absolutely ridiculous positions - this is just one of them.
    There's nothing ridiculous about that.   Further when you make 70% of retail sales in someone else's store, that alone obliterates your bullshit monopoly claim.
    edited June 2016 mwhite
  • Reply 24 of 143
    Dear US Government, Spotify is not being forced to use the Apple App Store to reach Apple customers. If Spotify desires, it can leave the Apple-developed, owned and operated App Store at any time without any penal whatsoever from Apple. Also, if Spotify desires, it can spend billions of dollars designing and developing its very own mobile ecosystem to compete strenuously with Apple.

    US Government, Spotify does not want to exit the Apple App Store nor does Spotify want to make the risky investment in its mobile ecosystem to compete with Apple as Apple did in the years leading up to the release of the original iPhone in 2007. Please ask Spotify to provide you a listing of the statements made against Apple's chances of success in the mobile industry. If the company's lawyers refuse to provide this information, I will personally take the time to compile statements for your review.

    Please do not allow Spotify to feed you misinformation about what is going on with Apple. Apple has set guidelines that all entities seeking to be on the Apple App Store must abide. None of the entities are required to conduct business on the App Store. None. Spotify knows this yet it continues to remain on the App Store then complain about Apple's guidelines.

    When Steve Jobs introduced the Apple App Store to the world, he made it absolutely clear no entity was required to submit apps to the Apple App Store. None. And, by not being on the Apple App Store, an entity was not required to pay Apple any money for any sales. None.

    By not being on the App Store an entity like Spotify will 100% control of how it conducts business with its customers. 100%. If Spotify wanted to offer its customers discounts, it could. If Spotify wanted to mine its customer data, it could. If Spotify wanted to know its customers credit card information, addresses, names, anything, it could. If Spotify wanted to setup and manage its own payment system, it could. All of this would be out of Apple's control. Spotify would be able to compete unimpeded with Apple for Apple's customers.

    Spotify does not want to do this. Instead Spotify has chosen to be on the Apple App Store while not having to abide Apple App Store guidelines. Instead of finding ways to make its business work, Spotify has chosen to spend money and time finding ways to get you involved against Apple in an attempt get what it wants. Before Apple Music was started last year several,of your agencies focused on Apple's business practices in the music industry. Apple was allowed to proceed with its music plans.

    Since that time, Spotify has repeatedly reported its customer base for paid and free with advertising music services have rapidly grown. With over 100 million customers, Spotify is the worldwide leader in the music streaming marketplace. 

    I respectfully ask you to investigate Spotify if you decide to once again investigate Apple. Ask Spotify why it has not invested its money and time into its own mobile ecosystem to create something so compellingly different just as Apple did to compete with Apple instead of turning to you. Ask Spotify why it has not chosen not to create a music player that uses a version of the Android operating system to gets its streaming services to customers. Ask Spotify what it has done to extricate itself from Apple. Ask Spotify if it is lying to you.

    Thank you for your time. 
    mwhitelondorlatifbpbrucemc
  • Reply 25 of 143
    redefilerredefiler Posts: 323member
    I'm glad Spotify is doing this. Apple should allow subscription apps to offer a redirect to the browser to sign up. There's no reason Apple should be taking 30% of someone's monthly Spotify fee. They're not hosting any content. And it certainly doesn't cost them $3 to process the credit card transaction. Google allows alternate payment methods. Apple should do the same. How hard would it be for Spotify to have a link in the app that takes you out to Safari to sign up? It wouldn't be. This is all about $$$ for Apple. 
    Idiotic, and you keep carping about the same thing.  Apple has a store, they get a cut, 30% is bottom barrel share across any industry for that. 

    Apple making money on products and services they offer?  Shock!  

    Whats Spotify do with their cash? Buy rainbows for starving children?  Or screw artist with abysmally low rates and pocket more than they should?  These hypocrites should first pay up before whining about their crap business model.
    londorlatifbpbrucemc
  • Reply 26 of 143
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,480member
    ceek74 said:
    Or Spotify could just not use the iOS platform.  Have fun.
    They can use it. Just bring their own customers

    drewys808nolamacguytmay
  • Reply 27 of 143
    jcdinkinsjcdinkins Posts: 114member
    I'm glad Spotify is doing this. Apple should allow subscription apps to offer a redirect to the browser to sign up. There's no reason Apple should be taking 30% of someone's monthly Spotify fee. They're not hosting any content. And it certainly doesn't cost them $3 to process the credit card transaction. Google allows alternate payment methods. Apple should do the same. How hard would it be for Spotify to have a link in the app that takes you out to Safari to sign up? It wouldn't be. This is all about $$$ for Apple. 
    You post some of the dumbest things on this board.
    mwhitenolamacguylondorbrucemc
  • Reply 28 of 143
    calicali Posts: 3,494member
    Maybe Spoty should pack their bags and leave Apples App Store.
    mwhite
  • Reply 29 of 143
    mnbob1mnbob1 Posts: 269member
    What is "causing grave harm to Spotify and its customers."? To my knowledge Apple doesn't have a policy against a user of a subscription service such as Spotify from registering and subscribing for their service outside of the iOS app in a web interface and then logging in once they load the app and are free to enjoy their service. The issue is that Apple's terms of service for apps excludes the ability to access the browser from within the app and return to the app. This isn't new, it's been that way for a long time. I have plenty of subscription services that use apps but required me to register via the browser first. I really didn't feel this caused me "grave harm". Most of them I have subscribed to for well over a year unless they were really shitty. I tried Spotify once and wasn't impressed just like I wasn't impressed with Beats either.

    I haven't subscribed to Apple Music because I don't feel a need right now to stream music outside of my own library. I do subscribe to iTunes Match because I currently have over 6,000 tracks in my personal library. I can stream those tracks so I don't have to use space on my iPhone or iPad. I can also access them on my Apple TV. I can download tracks to my Apple Watch as well.

    Another reason to use the Apple music apps (Apple Music or iTunes Match) is SIRI for search and voice to tell her to play anything in my library and if you're using Apple Music, play almost anything in Apple's music library. This will probably change as I understand it with the new SIRI API's in iOS 10  which Spotify can take advantage of. 
    (I'm not a programmer so I don't know if this is exactly correct. If it's not perhaps one of the programmers here can correct me.)

    If Spotify feels the need to charge an extra fee to register users because of Apple's one year requirement then it's possible their demographics aren't hanging around for that long. It would be interesting to see that information.

  • Reply 30 of 143
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,781member
    I'm glad Spotify is doing this. Apple should allow subscription apps to offer a redirect to the browser to sign up. There's no reason Apple should be taking 30% of someone's monthly Spotify fee. They're not hosting any content. And it certainly doesn't cost them $3 to process the credit card transaction. Google allows alternate payment methods. Apple should do the same. How hard would it be for Spotify to have a link in the app that takes you out to Safari to sign up? It wouldn't be. This is all about $$$ for Apple. 

    Might as well blame Eddie Cue for this too while you're at it...
    londornolamacguybrucemcpscooter63
  • Reply 31 of 143
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member

    Via Macworld -- at 2:223 in:


    tmayloquitur
  • Reply 32 of 143
    jonljonl Posts: 210member
    I'm glad Spotify is doing this. Apple should allow subscription apps to offer a redirect to the browser to sign up. There's no reason Apple should be taking 30% of someone's monthly Spotify fee. They're not hosting any content. And it certainly doesn't cost them $3 to process the credit card transaction. Google allows alternate payment methods. Apple should do the same. How hard would it be for Spotify to have a link in the app that takes you out to Safari to sign up? It wouldn't be. This is all about $$$ for Apple. 
    Yours was the first sane post I read. Of course, I saw it had 8 downvotes so gave you a lonely upvote. There are surprisingly many deranged people who like paying outrageous monthly fees to Apple. Somehow, they find it "just". Crazy.
    crowley
  • Reply 33 of 143
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    I'm glad Spotify is doing this. Apple should allow subscription apps to offer a redirect to the browser to sign up. There's no reason Apple should be taking 30% of someone's monthly Spotify fee. They're not hosting any content. And it certainly doesn't cost them $3 to process the credit card transaction. Google allows alternate payment methods. Apple should do the same. How hard would it be for Spotify to have a link in the app that takes you out to Safari to sign up? It wouldn't be. This is all about $$$ for Apple. 
    there we go again w/ the misdirection about the credit card fee -- as if that was the purported reason for the 30%. nope. the 30% is rent to do busines in Apple's shopping mall, which they designed, built, and maintain with their own money. if you want to do business inside of it, you gotta pay rent. if apple didnt charge the fee for subscription apps, then all the other one-time-payment apps wouldnt instantly switch to subscription to avoid paying the 30% for their apps. that would be stupid. 

    its pretty clear. you cant walk into the Mall of America and sell magazine subscriptions for free, can you? same thing.
    Does Target get 30% of every magazine subscription for magazines it sells in its stores? Should Apple pay 30% of stores sales to every mall owner where they have a store located? Most of the apps on my iOS devices I downloaded for free. Should there be no free apps on the App Store? Is Apple's support for CNN's free app different than their support for the Spotify app (other than the credit card transaction for Spotify's service)?
    jonlcurt12
  • Reply 34 of 143
    jkichlinejkichline Posts: 1,369member
    Dear Spotify,

    Read the App Store Guidelines and quit being a crybaby. If you want access to the iOS ecosystem, then you play by those guidelines. There are no surprises here. Everyone has the same rules and you're crying to mama because you want something different.

    I'm an app developer and sure I'd like to pay Apple less, but they opened up a new ecosystem for developers that you would not have had if it wasn't for them. So quit your whining.
    edited June 2016 londorlatifbp
  • Reply 35 of 143
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    irnchriz said:
    Spotify just needs to do what Amazon does with the kindle app.  No purchases through the app just a message stating to use this app you need an account. User goes online makes an account then signs in.  

    As as others already do this its just Spotify being whiny little bitchies. 
    Apparently Spotify took out in-app subscription in their latest update and Apple has refused to approve the update.
  • Reply 36 of 143
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    freerange said:
    I'm glad Spotify is doing this. Apple should allow subscription apps to offer a redirect to the browser to sign up. There's no reason Apple should be taking 30% of someone's monthly Spotify fee. They're not hosting any content. And it certainly doesn't cost them $3 to process the credit card transaction. Google allows alternate payment methods. Apple should do the same. How hard would it be for Spotify to have a link in the app that takes you out to Safari to sign up? It wouldn't be. This is all about $$$ for Apple. 
    Seriously????? That's an absolutely ridiculous position. Apple built and maintains their iOS platform at great expense, and has invested BILLIONS in developing their user base, and you think Spotify should get a free ride for their competitive paid subscription as they have access to over 1 BILLION Apple devices? Which would in fact be special treatment compared to every other paid service in the AppStore. The reality is that Spotify, an Apple Music competitor, is allowed in the Apple AppStore, and further, has their free ad supported program available for download in the store at ZERO cost to them and their users. What could be more fair than that for a direct competitor to Apple?
    Should Vogue be required to pay Target, Walmart etc. 30% for every subscription to their magazine?
  • Reply 37 of 143
    there we go again w/ the misdirection about the credit card fee -- as if that was the purported reason for the 30%. nope. the 30% is rent to do busines in Apple's shopping mall, which they designed, built, and maintain with their own money. if you want to do business inside of it, you gotta pay rent. if apple didnt charge the fee for subscription apps, then all the other one-time-payment apps wouldnt instantly switch to subscription to avoid paying the 30% for their apps. that would be stupid. 

    its pretty clear. you cant walk into the Mall of America and sell magazine subscriptions for free, can you? same thing.
    Does Target get 30% of every magazine subscription for magazines it sells in its stores? Should Apple pay 30% of stores sales to every mall owner where they have a store located? Most of the apps on my iOS devices I downloaded for free. Should there be no free apps on the App Store? Is Apple's support for CNN's free app different than their support for the Spotify app (other than the credit card transaction for Spotify's service)?
    You can't subscribe to a magazine in Target, last I checked. And if Target decided to do that, the magazine companies can always go to Walmart instead.
    brucemc
  • Reply 38 of 143
    TurboPGTTurboPGT Posts: 355member
    ceek74 said:
    Or Spotify could just not use the iOS platform.  Have fun.
    But of course, like many services, Spotify's entire success if because of Apple, and they seem to forget that and act like a whiney child who wants more from their parent.
  • Reply 39 of 143
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    Suck it Spotify. Remove your app and concentrate on Android. We've been told Android has the higher market share. 
    latifbpTurboPGT
  • Reply 40 of 143
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,227member
    I'm glad Spotify is doing this. Apple should allow subscription apps to offer a redirect to the browser to sign up. There's no reason Apple should be taking 30% of someone's monthly Spotify fee. They're not hosting any content. And it certainly doesn't cost them $3 to process the credit card transaction. Google allows alternate payment methods. Apple should do the same. How hard would it be for Spotify to have a link in the app that takes you out to Safari to sign up? It wouldn't be. This is all about $$$ for Apple. 
    Yes, how dare Apple make profits! Unless there is some unreported change in Apple's policies specifically designed to hobble Spotify/other music services and nobody else, this particular charge is bullshit. Apple has had these policies in place for some time, and are within their rights to have them. This is not news to Spotify. Nobody is forcing Spotify to be on the iOS platform -- they could make a streaming web app (which their app more or less is anyway) and still offer an iOS presence without being in the App Store with 100 percent of subscription money going to them. This is no more of an "advantage" than Microsoft has with other VOIP providers by owning Skype, or Amazon has competing with set-top box and crappy-tablet makers, or than Google has against Vimeo search results by virtue of owing YouTube (or other Map services, photo-storage sites, etc). I have boundless respect for Senator Warren's constant vigilance on behalf of consumers, but she should probably have called Apple and gotten their side of the story before commenting. If the kind of competitive advantages I've referred to from Microsoft and Google (and Apple) are a problem, then let's look at that -- and I can think of nobody better to do so than her -- but it is disingenuous to single out one company as though they were the only ones doing this. Senator Warren might want to look at what Google and Microsoft get for hosting "competitive" subscribing apps on their app stores -- oh look, 30 percent. What do you know.
    latifbpbrucemc
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