Softbank to acquire Apple chip designing partner ARM for $32 billion

Posted:
in General Discussion edited July 2016
In a massive deal valued at $32 billion, Japanese company Softbank announced on Monday that it will acquire ARM Holdings, the company that designs specifications for low-power mobile processors, including the A-series chips found in Apple's iPhone and iPad.




The deal is moving forward with unanimous support from both Softbank's board of directors, as well as ARM's management team. U.K.-based ARM will sell for ?24 billion, with Softbank financing the deal through ?16.7 billion cash on hand and ?7.3 billion in the form of a loan.

Softbank also announced on Monday that it plans to double ARM's U.K. headcount over the next five years. It also intends to maintain ARM's neutrality and independence, which could suggest the deal won't affect ARM's ongoing relationship with Apple.

The agreed upon price is a premium of more than 40 percent over how investors had valued ARM prior to the announcement.

Apple's decision to use an ARM application processor, and not Intel chips, in the first iPhone in 2007 proved to be landmark decision that would shape the future of not only Apple, but the entire mobile industry. Since then, custom ARM-based designs have also been used to power the iPad, Apple TV and iPod touch.




In its announcement of the deal, Softbank touted not only ARM's profitability, but also its room for growth. In particular, Softbank said ARM processors have considerable opportunities to expand sales, particularly with "Internet of Things" connected devices, as well as the rapidly changing automotive industry.

ARM makes reference designs for low-power mobile processors. Apple takes ARM's chip knowhow and heavily customizes it to build its own unique A-series processors, with manufacturing duties handled by partners Samsung and Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company.

Apple's own chip designing prowess was kickstarted by the acquisition of silicon maker PA Semi for $278 million in 2008. The company's initial custom ARM System on a Chip, the A4 processor, debuted in the first-generation iPad in 2010.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 25
    Wow! That's a high price to pay for a 'mature' business. Cars and many IoT devices will not be as energy-starved as smartphones, so the ARM advantage will be less important in the future than heretofore. Second, Apple inking its recent deal with Intel (for modems) cannot be a positive development for ARM, either. Intel will continue working on a chip that can replace the ARM processors in iPhone, and now Intel has an opportunity to work with Apple engineers on an ongoing basis.
  • Reply 2 of 25
    "Apple takes ARM's chip knowhow and heavily customizes it to build its own unique A-series processors" Apple doesn't use ARM reference designs; The A-series aren't "heavily customized" processors based on "ARM's chip[s]." They're Apple's own design. Only the instruction set is ARM.
    boopthesnootnetmagenolamacguymonstrosityericthehalfbeecalilarryajony0
  • Reply 3 of 25
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    "Apple takes ARM's chip knowhow and heavily customizes it to build its own unique A-series processors" Apple doesn't use ARM reference designs; The A-series aren't "heavily customized" processors based on "ARM's chip[s]." They're Apple's own design. Only the instruction set is ARM.
    1) Reference designs is what ARM licenses. All of ARM's licenses refer to designs.

    2) Apple uses the Architectural license, which gives them the most control, but also requires the most of amount of work when designing a chip around ARM's instruction set architecture. You can't leave off the word architecture when referring to the instruction set, as it's the architecture of the instruction set—not just a list of instructions—that Apple is paying ARM a lot of money to get their hands on

    1983rob53nhugheslollivergatorguyjbdragonpscooter63pbrstreetg
  • Reply 4 of 25
    rcfarcfa Posts: 1,124member
    Cars and many IoT devices will not be as energy-starved as smartphones, so the ARM advantage will be less important in the future than heretofore. 
    In the contrary: low power isn't just about battery life, it's about environmental impact and cost: can you imagine a future in which each power outlet in your home has a built in computer with an IPv6 stack and a RESTful XMLRPC API to control it, read out power consumption, etc?
    Do you know how many billion of electrical outlets there are? It's absolutely imperative that these IoT devices are total power misers, or else we'll have to build power plants like crazy.
    Always think: many small dogs also make a giant pile of poo.
    singularity1983rob53nhugheslolliverjbdragonnolamacguypbrstreetg
  • Reply 5 of 25
    xbitxbit Posts: 398member
    Sad times for the UK tech industry. :(
  • Reply 6 of 25
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    rcfa said:
    Cars and many IoT devices will not be as energy-starved as smartphones, so the ARM advantage will be less important in the future than heretofore. 
    can you imagine a future in which each power outlet in your home has a built in computer with an IPv6 stack and a RESTful XMLRPC API to control it, read out power consumption, etc?
    I don't see that coming to every power outlet. It's just more environmental waste to put a computer into every outlet into the home. We're using less power with out devices from more efficient designs.

    What I could see happening is a home power plant which has DC power run a primary in-home battery pack to outlets so we can further reduce the need for PSUs to convert AC to DC for nearly all the current devices. This would have to be standardized with something like USB-C and only offer a pin setup for power unless there are other safeguards put in place.

    If we can further the home's ability to use local, renewable energy, then the efficiency of power and reduction of waste could be furthered even more. I'd certainly like to live in a world where PSUs aren't required for every device used in the home.
    edited July 2016 baconstang
  • Reply 7 of 25
    19831983 Posts: 1,225member
    Wow, this is a big deal and very surprising. Up until this announcement I'd never heard of 'Softbank' before. I'll have to look them up to see how they can afford this considerable outlay.
  • Reply 8 of 25
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    1983 said:
    Wow, this is a big deal and very surprising. Up until this announcement I'd never heard of 'Softbank' before. I'll have to look them up to see how they can afford this considerable outlay.
    1) They were the first MNO to bring the iPhone 3G to Japan. That's when they got on my radar.

    2a) I wonder how this purchase will affect Apple.

    2b) I've always wondered why Apple didn't purchase the company. Maybe I just wanted to complete some sentimental circle from Advanced RISC Machines Ltd (ARM) being created as a joint venture between Apple, Acorn, and VLSI back in 1990.
    pscooter63
  • Reply 9 of 25
    netmagenetmage Posts: 314member
    The Architectural licensees get an Instruction Set specification and a test suite they must pass, so what do you think is included in this magical "architecture" that isn't in the list of instructions?
    edited July 2016
  • Reply 10 of 25
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,453member
    rcfa said:
    Cars and many IoT devices will not be as energy-starved as smartphones, so the ARM advantage will be less important in the future than heretofore. 
    In the contrary: low power isn't just about battery life, it's about environmental impact and cost: can you imagine a future in which each power outlet in your home has a built in computer with an IPv6 stack and a RESTful XMLRPC API to control it, read out power consumption, etc?
    Do you know how many billion of electrical outlets there are? It's absolutely imperative that these IoT devices are total power misers, or else we'll have to build power plants like crazy.
    Always think: many small dogs also make a giant pile of poo.
    Ubiquitous use of solar panels would do the same to mitigate the added power requirements, considering everything is on the grid anyway. I'm not seeing a problem, relative to the rest of our power needs.
    edited July 2016
  • Reply 11 of 25
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,284member
    xbit said:
    Sad times for the UK tech industry. :(
    It isn't much better for the US tech industry or US corporations in general. Everything is multinational and many "American" companies are actually owned by non-American companies (here's a quick websearch list, http://economyincrisis.org/content/many-american-made-companies-are-now-under-foreign-control). If you look at US debt (smaller under Obama than Bush and Reagan) and remove debt holders like Social Security, Federal Reserve Bank and other federal agencies, there's trillions of dollars of debt held by China, Belgium and Taiwan along with many other countries.

    The UK is not alone and this might actually help UK workers if Softbank doubles ARM's "headcount over the next five years." I also don't see why Apple would want to spend all this money to buy out ARM because ARM comes with a lot of baggage (small chip stuff) that Apple really doesn't need to spend that money on. Of course, if they could purchase ARM with profits from sales outside the US, it would be very interesting especially with the EU out of the picture. 
  • Reply 12 of 25
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,453member
    rob53 said:
    xbit said:
    Sad times for the UK tech industry. :(
    It isn't much better for the US tech industry or US corporations in general. Everything is multinational and many "American" companies are actually owned by non-American companies (here's a quick websearch list, http://economyincrisis.org/content/many-american-made-companies-are-now-under-foreign-control). If you look at US debt (smaller under Obama than Bush and Reagan) and remove debt holders like Social Security, Federal Reserve Bank and other federal agencies, there's trillions of dollars of debt held by China, Belgium and Taiwan along with many other countries.

    The UK is not alone and this might actually help UK workers if Softbank doubles ARM's "headcount over the next five years." I also don't see why Apple would want to spend all this money to buy out ARM because ARM comes with a lot of baggage (small chip stuff) that Apple really doesn't need to spend that money on. Of course, if they could purchase ARM with profits from sales outside the US, it would be very interesting especially with the EU out of the picture. 
    Apple could and might end up with agreements to work closely with SoftBank to direct some of ARM's R&D efforts into areas of Apple interest.
  • Reply 13 of 25
    Soli said:
    "Apple takes ARM's chip knowhow and heavily customizes it to build its own unique A-series processors" Apple doesn't use ARM reference designs; The A-series aren't "heavily customized" processors based on "ARM's chip[s]." They're Apple's own design. Only the instruction set is ARM.
    1) Reference designs is what ARM licenses. All of ARM's licenses refer to designs.

    2) Apple uses the Architectural license, which gives them the most control, but also requires the most of amount of work when designing a chip around ARM's instruction set architecture. You can't leave off the word architecture when referring to the instruction set, as it's the architecture of the instruction set—not just a list of instructions—that Apple is paying ARM a lot of money to get their hands on

    Instruction set is simply a shorthand for instruction set architecture. This is how it's commonly used. Adding the word architecture changes nothing. The ISA license only includes specification to ARM ISA (which comes with manuals, test suite, etc). It doesn't include anything else. Both Apple and Qualcomm design their CPUs however they like. They aren't "heavily customized" from ARM, which is what the article sort of implied.
    edited July 2016 nolamacguyericthehalfbee
  • Reply 14 of 25
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    1983 said:
    Wow, this is a big deal and very surprising. Up until this announcement I'd never heard of 'Softbank' before. I'll have to look them up to see how they can afford this considerable outlay.
    They are the mobile arm of Japan Telecom.  They were trialing NFC based contactless payments using phones in 2011.
    Soli
  • Reply 15 of 25
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,584member
    Soli said:
    "Apple takes ARM's chip knowhow and heavily customizes it to build its own unique A-series processors" Apple doesn't use ARM reference designs; The A-series aren't "heavily customized" processors based on "ARM's chip[s]." They're Apple's own design. Only the instruction set is ARM.
    1) Reference designs is what ARM licenses. All of ARM's licenses refer to designs.

    2) Apple uses the Architectural license, which gives them the most control, but also requires the most of amount of work when designing a chip around ARM's instruction set architecture. You can't leave off the word architecture when referring to the instruction set, as it's the architecture of the instruction set—not just a list of instructions—that Apple is paying ARM a lot of money to get their hands on

    Timely input Soli. We don't hear from you often anymore but good info when we do. 
    Solipscooter63
  • Reply 16 of 25
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    Soli said:
    1) Reference designs is what ARM licenses. All of ARM's licenses refer to designs.

    2) Apple uses the Architectural license, which gives them the most control, but also requires the most of amount of work when designing a chip around ARM's instruction set architecture. You can't leave off the word architecture when referring to the instruction set, as it's the architecture of the instruction set—not just a list of instructions—that Apple is paying ARM a lot of money to get their hands on

    Adding the word architecture changes nothing. The ISA license only includes specification to ARM ISA...
    If you believe that the architecture "changes nothing" then you need to ask yourself why the initialism is ISA, not IS. It's ARM's architecture that is valuable to Apple et al. when designing their own chips, but don't disregard ARM's efforts in creating the architecture. 
    gatorguy
  • Reply 17 of 25
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    heres what a guy posted elsewhere, and he sounds credible:

    Clearly chip design is not even remotely your area of expertise so I'll explain it to you:

    Apple licenses an instruction set known as ISA (Instruction Set Architecture) which is only a contract that says that if you compile your code to produce these instructions then the hardware will understand them.

    In no way does the ISA enforce a certain implementation, you could implement it however you want.

    Why did Apple choose this route? Simple: There are already a ton of compiler support (http://www.linaro.org/projects/armv8/) that can generate executables for ARM ISAs so no work on getting a compiler to generate the code.

    Apple's chips are completely designed by them which is why you always see their chips kicking butt in single core tests.

    So to finish: buy a license to an ISA, design your own chip so you can optimize it how you see fit, pay someone else to manufacture them.

    Apple probably has what ARM calls a perpetual license which provides you with the rights to design and manufacture anything you want that is ARM-based perpetually, probably costs a nice and fat paycheck though.

    http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/uk-chip-designer-arm-to-be-acquired-by-japans-softbank-for-31-4b.1983266/page-3#post-23134935
    edited July 2016 Soli
  • Reply 18 of 25
    Soli said:
    Adding the word architecture changes nothing. The ISA license only includes specification to ARM ISA...
    If you believe that the architecture "changes nothing" then you need to ask yourself why the initialism is ISA, not IS. It's ARM's architecture that is valuable to Apple et al. when designing their own chips, but don't disregard ARM's efforts in creating the architecture. 
    Because both instruction set and ISA are shorthand for instruction set architecture. You don't need to use an abbreviation for a word which is already shortened. If I were referring to the instructions alone, then I would simply say the instructions.

    Nonetheless, it still doesn't change the dubious wording of this article. Apple and Qualcomm chips aren't "customized" (which implies modification from another source). They're designed from scratch.
    edited July 2016 nolamacguyericthehalfbee
  • Reply 19 of 25
    tmay said:
    rcfa said:
    In the contrary: low power isn't just about battery life, it's about environmental impact and cost: can you imagine a future in which each power outlet in your home has a built in computer with an IPv6 stack and a RESTful XMLRPC API to control it, read out power consumption, etc?
    Do you know how many billion of electrical outlets there are? It's absolutely imperative that these IoT devices are total power misers, or else we'll have to build power plants like crazy.
    Always think: many small dogs also make a giant pile of poo.
    Ubiquitous use of solar panels would do the same to mitigate the added power requirements, considering everything is on the grid anyway. I'm not seeing a problem, relative to the rest of our power needs.
    Just because a car has room for more batteries (than your cell phone) doesn't mean you don't strive for power saving. Less power usage for all auxiliary power usage would mean more mileage per charge. Low power usage is important in your car.
    nolamacguy
  • Reply 20 of 25
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    heres what a guy posted elsewhere, and he sounds credible:

    Clearly chip design is not even remotely your area of expertise so I'll explain it to you:

    Apple licenses an instruction set known as ISA (Instruction Set Architecture) which is only a contract that says that if you compile your code to produce these instructions then the hardware will understand them.

    In no way does the ISA enforce a certain implementation, you could implement it however you want.

    Why did Apple choose this route? Simple: There are already a ton of compiler support (http://www.linaro.org/projects/armv8/) that can generate executables for ARM ISAs so no work on getting a compiler to generate the code.

    Apple's chips are completely designed by them which is why you always see their chips kicking butt in single core tests.

    So to finish: buy a license to an ISA, design your own chip so you can optimize it how you see fit, pay someone else to manufacture them.

    Apple probably has what ARM calls a perpetual license which provides you with the rights to design and manufacture anything you want that is ARM-based perpetually, probably costs a nice and fat paycheck though.

    http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/uk-chip-designer-arm-to-be-acquired-by-japans-softbank-for-31-4b.1983266/page-3#post-23134935
    Wow.  :o
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