Let's be honest... Microsoft isn't known to be a volume hardware seller.
Their "partners" take care of that. But Microsoft gets paid for every Windows license that is installed on all that hardware. They are clearly in a different business than everyone else.
So I think it's funny that Microsoft is now directly targeting Apple in their Surface commercials:
"My Mac can't do that"
Well guess what Microsoft... Apple sells 4 times as many Macs as you sell Surface devices. (if we must compare hardware sales from these two companies)
Not a volume hardware seller -- you mean with the exception of Xbox?
I was talking about PC hardware sales in the context of this article... not gaming consoles. All the talk in this thread comparing iPads sales to Surfaces, etc... game consoles never entered my mind.
My bad.
But since you brought it up... sure... let's add up all the hardware devices Microsoft sells. And just for fun... let's add up all the hardware devices everyone else sells too.
You might be surprised to know that Microsoft doesn't sell very much hardware compared to other companies.
And THAT was my point.
Lenovo alone sold 13.2 million PCs last quarter. Then HP and Dell with 13 million and 10 million respectively.
Then Microsoft with only 1 million Surfaces?
That's what I was referring to with my "volume" comment.
Xbox One sold 21 million units... but that was over 2.5 years. That's not a lot of volume in the grand scheme of things. And it doesn't change my mind about Microsoft not being known as a volume hardware seller.
It does seem like the tech and business media conflates every little snippet of marginally-positive or less-horrendously-bad readouts from Microsoft as evidence of the Second Coming of the Redmond Giant and its return to its rightful place as tech world dominator, and their stock jumps. On the other hand if Apple reports anything that leans towards marginally-negative or less-astoundingly-good they get lambasted by the media and their stock dives. Yes, this is by definition a double standard and it's largely fueled by bias and nostalgia rather than evidence and results.
Everyone forgets that Microsoft rose to stratospheric heights during a protracted tech bubble and during a period of rapid expansion in personal computing and connectivity. On the other hand Apple's outrageous success only started to really take hold during one of the worst recessions the US and other parts of the world have experienced in the last century. The tech and business pundits for some reason don't want to recognize Apple's success and morosely wish that Apple had just laid down and died as Michael Dell instructed them to do in the mid 90s.
Despite the fact that Apple has contributed mightily to an entire wave of new business opportunities and innovations that has raised the tide for everyone, e.g., true smartphones, the app economy, highly compelling and marketable tablets, wearables that work, rescuing the pay-for-music industry, etc., the tech and business pundits can't get over the fact that they had already gleefully reserved front row seats at Apple's funeral - but Apple refused to show up and stood them up. Apple's success has been a massive poke in the eye and FU-Too to those who had them fashionably buried.
We can all thank one man, Steve Jobs, for delivering the initial eye jab to the doubters but it's also the force of amazing Apple employees and operational geniuses like Tim Cook who have followed through to back up Steve's opening salvo. I have nothing against Microsoft and I hope that they continue to do well for the sake of their employees and stakeholders. But it's no longer a zero sum game. Apple will continue to prosper or falter based on their own actions independent of what Microsoft does at this point and going forward. These two companies have never been as decoupled as they are today. Microsoft up... Microsoft down... whatever.
Do Microsoft have a sales and servicing arm for Surfaces in Enterprise? I suspect that's where they might be able to pick up sales that they aren't achieving at the moment.
Just because MS surface can't beat iPad is no reason to think that the iPad is headed in the right direction. From Dec 2013 Quarter to Dec 2014 sales fell 22% then to Dec 2015 fell another 21 %. This despite introducing the new 12.9 inch iPad Pro.
MS gets the benefit of low expectations because they aren't doing another billion dollar write-off of the Surface. In that sense their results are a success even if only small.
But in reality the Surface Pro doesn't compete with the iPad because it is not really a mobile take anywhere computing platform and work on the go. Its more of a laptop. You sit with a surface using traditional apps but can walk and move with an iPad ( like iphone type apps).
iPad will outsell the Surface for a long, long ... long time. But it would be nice to see Apple do something to get sells growing again.
This article just seems to cherry pick points to criticize the MS/surface for not much meaningful reason. At least this time the author didn't personally attack the work of others.
So the fork in the road that MS missed is that they couldn't make ARM work in their desktop market, so they are stuck in a forever loop of more Wintel x86 cycles. Fairly, I think that the Mac is stuck in the same x86 cycles, but unlike MS, Apple has the option of continuing an aggressive A series design program to broaden ARM's reach onto the desktop, not just iPad Pro's and accessories to chase the desktop, but likely MacBook analog's.
It isn't that MS and the OEM's aren't shipping product as 2 in 1's, they are, mostly as laptop and notebook replacements in a shrinking market, its that they can't get past Intel's profit structure, and they aren't making the profits that Apple is still making in PC's.
Wait till the DED haters start arriving in this thread. The accusations of spin will be flying like tennis balls at the U.S. Open. But the mighty Microsoft is in great shape. It’s only Apple that is doomed to failure and irrelevance don’t you know.
Well, Microsoft did actually beat earnings expectations. Companies announce guidance after the previous quarter, analysts chime in, and then earnings come out after the end of the quarter. In Mr. Softy's case they beat those expectations, so this was actually a pretty good quarter for them as far as Wall Street is concerned.
The market will look at Apple's next earnings announcement the same way. It's all about whether you miss, meet or beat earnings expectations.
And there you have it in a nutshell. The great casino aka the stock market needs to be fed far lower 'expectations' about AAPL, then I'd be rich.
Thats because despite what some like to say, the surface isn't, and is never going to be, as popular as tablets, or the hybrid market won't be such a success. Add the fact that the surface isn't exactly the only windows hybrid around, and there are better options out on the market. I had a surface book, and it isn't practical as a tablet. The surface line in general isn't practical as a tablet.
JD Power had the Surface Pro with nearly the same customer satisfaction as the iPad, which is consider the best tablet available. And while there are other options, looks like the SP4 is the best hybrid, and even as a tablet, as good as iPads.
I have both, iPad and SP4. And both have positives and negatives. I don't see them as tablet or hybrid, but as devices I need based in what I need. Sometimes iPad is a better option, and sometime the SP4 is the way to go.
You mention that the Surface line isn't practical as a tablet. But when you compare an iPad Pro w/ keyboard vs SP4, the SP4 is more practical. It has a better keyboard, trackpad and adjustable angle. In this case, the SP4 is better than iPad. While there are other cases where the iPad is a better option.
The college I am lecturing for two days a week gave me a Surface 4 Pro "to see if I like it". I do not want to go into details (too painful), but here is a pretty thorough summary Steve Martin did for me...
I think SP4 is good depending on your needs. I have one, and my experience has been very positive. Even JD Powers had the Surface and the iPad with nearly the same level of customer satisfaction.
The market will look at Apple's next earnings announcement the same way. It's all about whether you miss, meet or beat earnings expectations.
They won't and that's the problem. No matter what guidance Apple gives, the Analyists will come up with their own fiction as regards the numbers and when APPL falls short, they'll short the stock down to $80. That's why the APPL price has risen recently. The Wall St darling that is MSFT can do no wrong. Even with these numbers, the stock price rose.
If APPL come in ahead of guidance they'll get marked down for not beating the Wall St fortune tellers. And the sun will rise in the east.
Thats because despite what some like to say, the surface isn't, and is never going to be, as popular as tablets, or the hybrid market won't be such a success. Add the fact that the surface isn't exactly the only windows hybrid around, and there are better options out on the market. I had a surface book, and it isn't practical as a tablet. The surface line in general isn't practical as a tablet.
JD Power had the Surface Pro with nearly the same customer satisfaction as the iPad, which is consider the best tablet available. And while there are other options, looks like the SP4 is the best hybrid, and even as a tablet, as good as iPads.
I have both, iPad and SP4. And both have positives and negatives. I don't see them as tablet or hybrid, but as devices I need based in what I need. Sometimes iPad is a better option, and sometime the SP4 is the way to go.
You mention that the Surface line isn't practical as a tablet. But when you compare an iPad Pro w/ keyboard vs SP4, the SP4 is more practical. It has a better keyboard, trackpad and adjustable angle. In this case, the SP4 is better than iPad. While there are other cases where the iPad is a better option.
No, the surface won't be as big of a hit as the iPad was. Yes, the iPad Pro is not practical as a tablet, but the surface is even more. How many people actually use them as tablets most of the time? Exactly. The surface has no tablet optimized apps, and the ones that are on the surface aren't enough. The iPad Pro, on the other hand, has a chance of attracting productivity apps optimized for it. The surface doesn't.
Forgot to mention, we got a Surface 4 at work. For a specific use it was the best option available. In our case it's used as a portable oscilloscope.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/oscilloscope/id388636804?mt=8 I can do the same thing on my iOS device, along with the same kind of A-D convertor and probes required for the Surface. It's all in the app. An oscilloscope isn't that big of a deal as long as you have a good way of getting the signal source into your device.
Wait till the DED haters start arriving in this thread. The accusations of spin will be flying like tennis balls at the U.S. Open. But the mighty Microsoft is in great shape. It’s only Apple that is doomed to failure and irrelevance don’t you know.
Well, Microsoft did actually beat earnings expectations. Companies announce guidance after the previous quarter, analysts chime in, and then earnings come out after the end of the quarter. In Mr. Softy's case they beat those expectations, so this was actually a pretty good quarter for them as far as Wall Street is concerned.
The market will look at Apple's next earnings announcement the same way. It's all about whether you miss, meet or beat earnings expectations.
Oh, it's not "all" about that. There's ample historical evidence of stock manipulation (and not just in regard to Apple, mind you).
"Surface revenues increased 9 percent over the year-ago fiscal Q4 ($965 million vs. $888 million), but are down sequentially from the $1.1 billion revenues Microsoft reported in April and down dramatically from peak sales of $1.35 billion it reported in January."
Umm Duh! January includes holiday sales. This the same crap that people say when iPad sales are down during these these same quarters. Why are you guys doing the same thing. Tablet, computer and phone sales all go on cycles. STOP THIS CRAP
True story: Just tried to add some PDFs on my desktop to iCloud (which I did easily), then tried to access those PDFs in iCloud using my iPhone and they were nowhere to be found using the Mail app (I wanted to be able to attach the PDFs to an email...couldn't do it). So I ended up having to upload the PDFs to Dropbox and fiddle around with various settings so they'd be available and usable to add as email attachments while using Mail. That was a needlessly complicated solution and I really wonder who at Apple is failing to see what a problem this really is for iOS users.
All you have to do is visit an Apple Store and then visit a Microsoft Store to see how Microsoft is doing. When I went to pick up my Apple Watch a few weeks ago, the Apple Store was packed. When I walked by Microsoft, there were 8 customers.
Well Microsoft is up almost 7% today. So Wall Street obviously saw a different quarter than DED did. I can guarantee you Apple won't be up 7% after they report.
These hybrid computers like the Surface is nothing new. MS has been trying to push this type of thing since Windows XP (Tablet Edition) and it hasn't worked. The problem is it's not as good as a plain old Tablet or a Plain old Laptop. It's trying to be everything to everyone and in the end failing like always.
It's doom and gloom for Apple because iPad sales have dropped. But then these people never mention that Android tablet sales have dropped like a rock or that Surface sales have just done nothing, just kind of plateaued. I'm a long time Windows user since Windows 95, and have a custom built Windows 10 Desktop now, but I use a iPad and iPhone also.
You know what the problem with the Surface is? That it is a so called FULL Desktop OS. You get all that comes along with that. Annoying Windows issues that crop up that you have to figure out and fix, just like I have to do on my Desktop once in a while and end up Googling for some answers on how to fix the issue and spending hours. Then there's Anti-Virus Software, Firewalls, Spyware software and other crap you need to run. It goes on and on. Monthly Security updates!!! I just want to pick up my tablet, turn it on and start using it without dealing with all that garbage!!! I mean why should I?
I have this small portable folding Blue Tooth keyboard I've had for years. Got years ago for my HP iPAQ Windows Mobile 5 PDA, yet works on my iPhone or iPad and I never use it. Even though there are keyboards for the iPad, and maybe that kind of turns it into more of a surface, few people need to use it. It's a option for a small Minority. You see this in commercials. The Surface is always Advertised with the Keyboard, and in fact make a big deal of snapping them together. Even in Product placement in TV shows. I wonder if it's even used as a cover? If anything it's pushed more as a Laptop. You don't see Ad's of Apple pushing their Keyboard covers with the iPad. In fact I don't recall any Apple Ad's showing off the Keyboard. Maybe they exist?
The whole point of a tablet is to use the screen and be simple to use. The whole point of surface is some detachable Keyboard and all the hassles of a full Desktop OS. MS still doesn't get it and I don't think they ever will.
All you have to do is visit an Apple Store and then visit a Microsoft Store to see how Microsoft is doing. When I went to pick up my Apple Watch a few weeks ago, the Apple Store was packed. When I walked by Microsoft, there were 8 customers.
Microsoft isn't a consumer hardware company. And you don't need to go to a Microsoft store to get OEM hardware. Microsoft is all about the cloud. For Apple the cloud is just an add-on to make their hardware more attractive,
Comments
My bad.
But since you brought it up... sure... let's add up all the hardware devices Microsoft sells. And just for fun... let's add up all the hardware devices everyone else sells too.
You might be surprised to know that Microsoft doesn't sell very much hardware compared to other companies.
And THAT was my point.
Lenovo alone sold 13.2 million PCs last quarter. Then HP and Dell with 13 million and 10 million respectively.
Then Microsoft with only 1 million Surfaces?
That's what I was referring to with my "volume" comment.
Xbox One sold 21 million units... but that was over 2.5 years. That's not a lot of volume in the grand scheme of things. And it doesn't change my mind about Microsoft not being known as a volume hardware seller.
And we haven't even mentioned smartphones yet...
Everyone forgets that Microsoft rose to stratospheric heights during a protracted tech bubble and during a period of rapid expansion in personal computing and connectivity. On the other hand Apple's outrageous success only started to really take hold during one of the worst recessions the US and other parts of the world have experienced in the last century. The tech and business pundits for some reason don't want to recognize Apple's success and morosely wish that Apple had just laid down and died as Michael Dell instructed them to do in the mid 90s.
Despite the fact that Apple has contributed mightily to an entire wave of new business opportunities and innovations that has raised the tide for everyone, e.g., true smartphones, the app economy, highly compelling and marketable tablets, wearables that work, rescuing the pay-for-music industry, etc., the tech and business pundits can't get over the fact that they had already gleefully reserved front row seats at Apple's funeral - but Apple refused to show up and stood them up. Apple's success has been a massive poke in the eye and FU-Too to those who had them fashionably buried.
We can all thank one man, Steve Jobs, for delivering the initial eye jab to the doubters but it's also the force of amazing Apple employees and operational geniuses like Tim Cook who have followed through to back up Steve's opening salvo. I have nothing against Microsoft and I hope that they continue to do well for the sake of their employees and stakeholders. But it's no longer a zero sum game. Apple will continue to prosper or falter based on their own actions independent of what Microsoft does at this point and going forward. These two companies have never been as decoupled as they are today. Microsoft up... Microsoft down... whatever.
It isn't that MS and the OEM's aren't shipping product as 2 in 1's, they are, mostly as laptop and notebook replacements in a shrinking market, its that they can't get past Intel's profit structure, and they aren't making the profits that Apple is still making in PC's.
JD Power had the Surface Pro with nearly the same customer satisfaction as the iPad, which is consider the best tablet available. And while there are other options, looks like the SP4 is the best hybrid, and even as a tablet, as good as iPads.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsofts-surface-apples-ipad-in-customer-satisfaction-dead-heat/
I have both, iPad and SP4. And both have positives and negatives. I don't see them as tablet or hybrid, but as devices I need based in what I need. Sometimes iPad is a better option, and sometime the SP4 is the way to go.
You mention that the Surface line isn't practical as a tablet. But when you compare an iPad Pro w/ keyboard vs SP4, the SP4 is more practical. It has a better keyboard, trackpad and adjustable angle. In this case, the SP4 is better than iPad. While there are other cases where the iPad is a better option.
I think SP4 is good depending on your needs. I have one, and my experience has been very positive. Even JD Powers had the Surface and the iPad with nearly the same level of customer satisfaction.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsofts-surface-apples-ipad-in-customer-satisfaction-dead-heat/
So it looks like many people think is as good as the iPad, which is the best tablet available.
The Wall St darling that is MSFT can do no wrong. Even with these numbers, the stock price rose.
If APPL come in ahead of guidance they'll get marked down for not beating the Wall St fortune tellers.
And the sun will rise in the east.