JD Power had the Surface Pro with nearly the same customer satisfaction as the iPad, which is consider the best tablet available. And while there are other options, looks like the SP4 is the best hybrid, and even as a tablet, as good as iPads.
I have both, iPad and SP4. And both have positives and negatives. I don't see them as tablet or hybrid, but as devices I need based in what I need. Sometimes iPad is a better option, and sometime the SP4 is the way to go.
You mention that the Surface line isn't practical as a tablet. But when you compare an iPad Pro w/ keyboard vs SP4, the SP4 is more practical. It has a better keyboard, trackpad and adjustable angle. In this case, the SP4 is better than iPad. While there are other cases where the iPad is a better option.
No, the surface won't be as big of a hit as the iPad was. Yes, the iPad Pro is not practical as a tablet, but the surface is even more. How many people actually use them as tablets most of the time? Exactly. The surface has no tablet optimized apps, and the ones that are on the surface aren't enough. The iPad Pro, on the other hand, has a chance of attracting productivity apps optimized for it. The surface doesn't.
I don't see where in my post I talked about Surface Pro being a hit. My post was related to customer satisfaction to the level of the iPad. The Surface don't have the long list of iPad Apps, but the one I have use are very good.
IMO, both are great devices and have positive and negatives. To say that one is better than the other in absolute terms is non sense. SP4 does many things better than the iPad Pro and viceversa.
These hybrid computers like the Surface is nothing new. MS has been trying to push this type of thing since Windows XP (Tablet Edition) and it hasn't worked. The problem is it's not as good as a plain old Tablet or a Plain old Laptop. It's trying to be everything to everyone and in the end failing like always.
It's doom and gloom for Apple because iPad sales have dropped. But then these people never mention that Android tablet sales have dropped like a rock or that Surface sales have just done nothing, just kind of plateaued. I'm a long time Windows user since Windows 95, and have a custom built Windows 10 Desktop now, but I use a iPad and iPhone also.
You know what the problem with the Surface is? That it is a so called FULL Desktop OS. You get all that comes along with that. Annoying Windows issues that crop up that you have to figure out and fix, just like I have to do on my Desktop once in a while and end up Googling for some answers on how to fix the issue and spending hours. Then there's Anti-Virus Software, Firewalls, Spyware software and other crap you need to run. It goes on and on. Monthly Security updates!!! I just want to pick up my tablet, turn it on and start using it without dealing with all that garbage!!! I mean why should I?
I have this small portable folding Blue Tooth keyboard I've had for years. Got years ago for my HP iPAQ Windows Mobile 5 PDA, yet works on my iPhone or iPad and I never use it. Even though there are keyboards for the iPad, and maybe that kind of turns it into more of a surface, few people need to use it. It's a option for a small Minority. You see this in commercials. The Surface is always Advertised with the Keyboard, and in fact make a big deal of snapping them together. Even in Product placement in TV shows. I wonder if it's even used as a cover? If anything it's pushed more as a Laptop. You don't see Ad's of Apple pushing their Keyboard covers with the iPad. In fact I don't recall any Apple Ad's showing off the Keyboard. Maybe they exist?
The whole point of a tablet is to use the screen and be simple to use. The whole point of surface is some detachable Keyboard and all the hassles of a full Desktop OS. MS still doesn't get it and I don't think they ever will.
I think MS did something right, considering that the consumer satisfaction is as good as iPad's, don't you think?
JD Power had the Surface Pro with nearly the same customer satisfaction as the iPad, which is consider the best tablet available. And while there are other options, looks like the SP4 is the best hybrid, and even as a tablet, as good as iPads.
I have both, iPad and SP4. And both have positives and negatives. I don't see them as tablet or hybrid, but as devices I need based in what I need. Sometimes iPad is a better option, and sometime the SP4 is the way to go.
You mention that the Surface line isn't practical as a tablet. But when you compare an iPad Pro w/ keyboard vs SP4, the SP4 is more practical. It has a better keyboard, trackpad and adjustable angle. In this case, the SP4 is better than iPad. While there are other cases where the iPad is a better option.
No, the surface won't be as big of a hit as the iPad was. Yes, the iPad Pro is not practical as a tablet, but the surface is even more. How many people actually use them as tablets most of the time? Exactly. The surface has no tablet optimized apps, and the ones that are on the surface aren't enough. The iPad Pro, on the other hand, has a chance of attracting productivity apps optimized for it. The surface doesn't.
I use it as tablet most of the time. It replaces my laptop when I travel, and I attach keyboard if I want to do a long email or anything else that requires a lot of typing, but am too lazy to go to my desktop.
My apps needs are probably not too high - I game on PC and PS4, so I don't have any games on my phones and tablet these days. As of other apps, I havefound all I need from tablet:
Edge browser - works great with touch, with benefit of still supporting Flash. Yes I know it is mostly dead, but I still run across websites using it. Desktop Chrome is also quite friendly with touch nowadays.
Win10 Email client - it has became my primary email client. I still use Outlook on desktop, but that is once or twice a week. My daily emailing happens on email app which is very touch-friendly.
Calendar, Contacts - also native W10 apps, also work great with touch.
Photos - default W10 photo browser, works great with touch.
Client for YouTube - generic name but my favourite YouTube app overall.
W10 weather app - the most comprehensive weather app I have seen on any platform, and - guess what - works like a char with touch.
MS News, Flipboard - touch friendly.
Maps - my default mapping app. I use Google Maps from Edge if I need street view, either way good touch experience.
Viber, built-in Skype integration, Facebook chat - all work great with touch.
Cover for comics, Nook and Kobo readers for ebooks, Bing Wikipedia browser, default Reader and PDF Draw - for my reading needs.
Groove Music and default video player cover most my offline multimedia needs, though I also have Netflix and TVNZOnDemand apps, all working great with touch.
Other system apps - calculator, world time/alarm/stopwatch... all nicely done for touch.
Handful of food, fitness, health related apps... some scribbling apps... I actually have a few games, never used but just in case. Basics like Angry Birds, Solitaire, Hill Climb Racing.
Now here's the thing that many tablet-only users ignore. You don't need everything on Surface to be app-sized. I still have full Office and mobile Office installed, Photoshop and Lightroom, CorelDraw suite... OneNote 2016 and OneNote Mobile... VLC... among other things. Yes they do require mouse or touchpad to work fully, but they offer features that I just can't get from classic tablet apps.
Beside that... screen is gorgeous and much more agreeable with my eyes than 10" tablet... kickstand is much greater than I ever expected before using it... type cover and touchpad are up there with premium laptops... weight is acceptable for me, especially that, with kickstand, I rarely hold it in my hands. And it gave me opportunity to merge tablet and laptop into one device. And even when I use it as tablet, I can still plug USB drive, access my home server shares... access my home scanner and printers.
For me, it works like a charm. I'm still buying iPads for my mom, and can't think of better tablet for her. Different people, different shoes. One doesn't fit all.
No, the surface won't be as big of a hit as the iPad was. Yes, the iPad Pro is not practical as a tablet, but the surface is even more. How many people actually use them as tablets most of the time? Exactly. The surface has no tablet optimized apps, and the ones that are on the surface aren't enough. The iPad Pro, on the other hand, has a chance of attracting productivity apps optimized for it. The surface doesn't.
I don't see where in my post I talked about Surface Pro being a hit. My post was related to customer satisfaction to the level of the iPad. The Surface don't have the long list of iPad Apps, but the one I have use are very good.
IMO, both are great devices and have positive and negatives. To say that one is better than the other in absolute terms is non sense. SP4 does many things better than the iPad Pro and viceversa.
Customer satisfaction? Really? Like I said, this people aren't using the surface as a tablet most of the time. The surface is meant to be used mostly as a laptop, even Microsoft them selvs said so. The surface is better then the iPad as a tablet, the surface is better then the iPad as a laptop.
These hybrid computers like the Surface is nothing new. MS has been trying to push this type of thing since Windows XP (Tablet Edition) and it hasn't worked. The problem is it's not as good as a plain old Tablet or a Plain old Laptop. It's trying to be everything to everyone and in the end failing like always.
It's doom and gloom for Apple because iPad sales have dropped. But then these people never mention that Android tablet sales have dropped like a rock or that Surface sales have just done nothing, just kind of plateaued. I'm a long time Windows user since Windows 95, and have a custom built Windows 10 Desktop now, but I use a iPad and iPhone also.
You know what the problem with the Surface is? That it is a so called FULL Desktop OS. You get all that comes along with that. Annoying Windows issues that crop up that you have to figure out and fix, just like I have to do on my Desktop once in a while and end up Googling for some answers on how to fix the issue and spending hours. Then there's Anti-Virus Software, Firewalls, Spyware software and other crap you need to run. It goes on and on. Monthly Security updates!!! I just want to pick up my tablet, turn it on and start using it without dealing with all that garbage!!! I mean why should I?
I have this small portable folding Blue Tooth keyboard I've had for years. Got years ago for my HP iPAQ Windows Mobile 5 PDA, yet works on my iPhone or iPad and I never use it. Even though there are keyboards for the iPad, and maybe that kind of turns it into more of a surface, few people need to use it. It's a option for a small Minority. You see this in commercials. The Surface is always Advertised with the Keyboard, and in fact make a big deal of snapping them together. Even in Product placement in TV shows. I wonder if it's even used as a cover? If anything it's pushed more as a Laptop. You don't see Ad's of Apple pushing their Keyboard covers with the iPad. In fact I don't recall any Apple Ad's showing off the Keyboard. Maybe they exist?
The whole point of a tablet is to use the screen and be simple to use. The whole point of surface is some detachable Keyboard and all the hassles of a full Desktop OS. MS still doesn't get it and I don't think they ever will.
At some stage, they become good enough... as long as company behind keeps improving them. Good SUV is good enough for most people needs for some dirt road adventure, road trips, even some hearty spirited driving down the motorway... even if there are better real 4x4, limos and performance cars for each individual scenario.
Well Microsoft is up almost 7% today. So Wall Street obviously saw a different quarter than DED did. I can guarantee you Apple won't be up 7% after they report.
Definitely a non-sequitur.
DED did not predict or pretend to equate the article with a specific share price AND it also makes little sense for you to compare MSFT with AAPL share price movement (e.g. 7%). MSFT and AAPL trade very differently and you know it.
Microsoft up 4% after-hours on earnings. As far as Wall Street is concerned, Microsoft's Azure Cloud Services business has far greater potential than Apple's iPad business. Let's see what Apple does on earnings. I'd bet Apple misses expectations and the stock goes down at least 4%. As it is, analysts believe Apple's P/E is too high at 10.x while Microsoft's P/E is totally acceptable at 42. It appears as though Tim Cook has pretty much turned Apple into a losing investment with Microsoft easily being valued higher than Apple. Even Microsoft's failures end up pulling in more investors than Apple's successes. That's how it is, so you'd better get used to Apple remaining doomed.
Wow, a lot of misinformation there.
- Don't see how you can compare the business potential of Azure vs iPad. Two very different segments. Each are important in their own ways. - Ridiculous to compare how shares are traded between MSFT and AAPL, especially before/after earnings. - Tim Cook turned Apple into a losing investment?...so are you saying the share price is lower since 2011 when he became CEO? - Interesting, you know the inner musings of analysts to know that Apple's PE is too high at 11 vs MSFT at 42.
It must be mythologically wonderful to know everything.
Oh, yes...doomed. Like that hasn't been said before.
True story: Just tried to add some PDFs on my desktop to iCloud (which I did easily), then tried to access those PDFs in iCloud using my iPhone and they were nowhere to be found using the Mail app (I wanted to be able to attach the PDFs to an email...couldn't do it). So I ended up having to upload the PDFs to Dropbox and fiddle around with various settings so they'd be available and usable to add as email attachments while using Mail. That was a needlessly complicated solution and I really wonder who at Apple is failing to see what a problem this really is for iOS users.
Method 1 Open email app Create message Press little pinkie on message body (further tests reveal that any finger will work just as well) Little black menu pops up. Press add attachment icloud drive pops open Select file Send message
Method 2 Open iCloud Drive app Press finger on file Select more… from the menu Select Share Item… Select email Send message
Supplementary notes If neither of these methods work for you then check the following:
Is your iPhone running a recent version of iOS? Are you wearing gloves? Are you using an iPhone?
I don't see where in my post I talked about Surface Pro being a hit. My post was related to customer satisfaction to the level of the iPad. The Surface don't have the long list of iPad Apps, but the one I have use are very good.
IMO, both are great devices and have positive and negatives. To say that one is better than the other in absolute terms is non sense. SP4 does many things better than the iPad Pro and viceversa.
Customer satisfaction? Really? Like I said, this people aren't using the surface as a tablet most of the time. The surface is meant to be used mostly as a laptop, even Microsoft them selvs said so. The surface is better then the iPad as a tablet, the surface is better then the iPad as a laptop.
I think customer satisfaction is important, isn't? And how do you know that Surface owners don't use it as a tablet? I use it frequently, specially when taking handwritten notes. And I don't I'm the only one, specially when you have mobile version of Word and Excel, or Netflix and Hulu.
Thats because despite what some like to say, the surface isn't, and is never going to be, as popular as tablets, or the hybrid market won't be such a success. Add the fact that the surface isn't exactly the only windows hybrid around, and there are better options out on the market. I had a surface book, and it isn't practical as a tablet. The surface line in general isn't practical as a tablet.
JD Power had the Surface Pro with nearly the same customer satisfaction as the iPad, which is consider the best tablet available. And while there are other options, looks like the SP4 is the best hybrid, and even as a tablet, as good as iPads.
I have both, iPad and SP4. And both have positives and negatives. I don't see them as tablet or hybrid, but as devices I need based in what I need. Sometimes iPad is a better option, and sometime the SP4 is the way to go.
You mention that the Surface line isn't practical as a tablet. But when you compare an iPad Pro w/ keyboard vs SP4, the SP4 is more practical. It has a better keyboard, trackpad and adjustable angle. In this case, the SP4 is better than iPad. While there are other cases where the iPad is a better option.
For me it's all about battery life. And the iPad Pro excels. I never worry about plugging in. Unlike my colleagues who still require the umbilical cord for their Surface devices, being unable to get through the day without plugging in. And when I do need a charger, it's easy to find one as lightning cables and USB chargers are everywhere. The surface uses a proprietary and expensive charger. My colleagues on the surface are forced to carry their proprietary Microsoft surface charger everywhere with them.
Try purchasing an extra charger for the surface. It gets quite costly.
I can make my iPad Pro into an external monitor using duet display also. Doing so with the iPad allows me to use the iPad as a monitor with touchscreen functions. And when the iPad is removed, I use Splashtop to mirror the Mac or PC and never have to logout and login back into my applications. To be fair, the Surface does allow similar, but not the same degree of seamless functionality.
While I will agree that the track pad/mouse and an adjustable keyboard makes for a better experience in certain use cases, the iPad Pro beats the Surface overall for what I do. The pencil is superior to the surface stylus also.
If there is a mission critical application that exists only on Windows then the Surface becomes the obvious choice. Otherwise, the iPad Pro is superior for what I do and it isn't even close.
Once Apple puts out an iPad with an OLED screen, I will be upgrading again.
JD Power had the Surface Pro with nearly the same customer satisfaction as the iPad, which is consider the best tablet available. And while there are other options, looks like the SP4 is the best hybrid, and even as a tablet, as good as iPads.
I have both, iPad and SP4. And both have positives and negatives. I don't see them as tablet or hybrid, but as devices I need based in what I need. Sometimes iPad is a better option, and sometime the SP4 is the way to go.
You mention that the Surface line isn't practical as a tablet. But when you compare an iPad Pro w/ keyboard vs SP4, the SP4 is more practical. It has a better keyboard, trackpad and adjustable angle. In this case, the SP4 is better than iPad. While there are other cases where the iPad is a better option.
For me it's all about battery life. And the iPad Pro excels. I never worry about plugging in. Unlike my colleagues who still require the umbilical cord for their Surface devices, being unable to get through the day without plugging in. And when I do need a charger, it's easy to find one as lightning cables and USB chargers are everywhere. The surface uses a proprietary and expensive charger. My colleagues on the surface are forced to carry their proprietary Microsoft surface charger everywhere with them.
Try purchasing an extra charger for the surface. It gets quite costly.
I can make my iPad Pro into an external monitor using duet display also. Doing so with the iPad allows me to use the iPad as a monitor with touchscreen functions. And when the iPad is removed, I use Splashtop to mirror the Mac or PC and never have to logout and login back into my applications. To be fair, the Surface does allow similar, but not the same degree of seamless functionality.
While I will agree that the track pad/mouse and an adjustable keyboard makes for a better experience in certain use cases, the iPad Pro beats the Surface overall for what I do. The pencil is superior to the surface stylus also.
If there is a mission critical application that exists only on Windows then the Surface becomes the obvious choice. Otherwise, the iPad Pro is superior for what I do and it isn't even close.
Once Apple puts out an iPad with an OLED screen, I will be upgrading again.
Battery life is a big negative thing of my SP4. And I agree with you with some benefits from the iPad Pro. But here are some things SP4 does better,
I can use the Surface Dock, and work with dual monitors o make the SP4 the secondary display. No need for an additional tablet device.
You already mention how the SP4 keyboard + trackpad and different angle is better. And the Pencil is not necessarily better. For example, I do a lot of handwriting notes, and the eraser in the Pen is great. That's something missing from the Pencil, and depending from your needs, it is and advantage of the Pen.
You made your points how iPad Pro is a better option for you. In my case, being capable to use the SP4 with a docking station to work desktop applications, the Pen / eraser for note taking and the keyboard / trackpad makes the SP4 a better option for me. Like I said before, both are great devices, and to say in absolute terms that one is better than the other, is nonsense.
Growth in revenue is better than growth in earnings. If revenue is up 5% in the segment that sells office but earnings are down, that doesn't mean that growth is slowing. It means Microsoft is spending money on employees, advertising, or R&D (or all three). Adding 900,000 users in a quarter to have 23.1 million users total is not a plateau, it represents 4% growth in a single quarter on a software suite that has been around for decades. The definition of a cash cow in business is a reliable steady stream of income (i.e. milk it).
I don't care about Apple vs Microsoft, I just care about proper relation of information.
Comments
IMO, both are great devices and have positive and negatives. To say that one is better than the other in absolute terms is non sense. SP4 does many things better than the iPad Pro and viceversa.
I think MS did something right, considering that the consumer satisfaction is as good as iPad's, don't you think?
http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsofts-surface-apples-ipad-in-customer-satisfaction-dead-heat/
My apps needs are probably not too high - I game on PC and PS4, so I don't have any games on my phones and tablet these days. As of other apps, I have found all I need from tablet:
Edge browser - works great with touch, with benefit of still supporting Flash. Yes I know it is mostly dead, but I still run across websites using it. Desktop Chrome is also quite friendly with touch nowadays.
Win10 Email client - it has became my primary email client. I still use Outlook on desktop, but that is once or twice a week. My daily emailing happens on email app which is very touch-friendly.
Calendar, Contacts - also native W10 apps, also work great with touch.
Photos - default W10 photo browser, works great with touch.
Client for YouTube - generic name but my favourite YouTube app overall.
W10 weather app - the most comprehensive weather app I have seen on any platform, and - guess what - works like a char with touch.
MS News, Flipboard - touch friendly.
Maps - my default mapping app. I use Google Maps from Edge if I need street view, either way good touch experience.
Viber, built-in Skype integration, Facebook chat - all work great with touch.
Cover for comics, Nook and Kobo readers for ebooks, Bing Wikipedia browser, default Reader and PDF Draw - for my reading needs.
Groove Music and default video player cover most my offline multimedia needs, though I also have Netflix and TVNZOnDemand apps, all working great with touch.
Other system apps - calculator, world time/alarm/stopwatch... all nicely done for touch.
Handful of food, fitness, health related apps... some scribbling apps... I actually have a few games, never used but just in case. Basics like Angry Birds, Solitaire, Hill Climb Racing.
Now here's the thing that many tablet-only users ignore. You don't need everything on Surface to be app-sized. I still have full Office and mobile Office installed, Photoshop and Lightroom, CorelDraw suite... OneNote 2016 and OneNote Mobile... VLC... among other things. Yes they do require mouse or touchpad to work fully, but they offer features that I just can't get from classic tablet apps.
Beside that... screen is gorgeous and much more agreeable with my eyes than 10" tablet... kickstand is much greater than I ever expected before using it... type cover and touchpad are up there with premium laptops... weight is acceptable for me, especially that, with kickstand, I rarely hold it in my hands. And it gave me opportunity to merge tablet and laptop into one device. And even when I use it as tablet, I can still plug USB drive, access my home server shares... access my home scanner and printers.
For me, it works like a charm. I'm still buying iPads for my mom, and can't think of better tablet for her. Different people, different shoes. One doesn't fit all.
DED did not predict or pretend to equate the article with a specific share price AND it also makes little sense for you to compare MSFT with AAPL share price movement (e.g. 7%). MSFT and AAPL trade very differently and you know it.
- Don't see how you can compare the business potential of Azure vs iPad. Two very different segments. Each are important in their own ways.
- Ridiculous to compare how shares are traded between MSFT and AAPL, especially before/after earnings.
- Tim Cook turned Apple into a losing investment?...so are you saying the share price is lower since 2011 when he became CEO?
- Interesting, you know the inner musings of analysts to know that Apple's PE is too high at 11 vs MSFT at 42.
It must be mythologically wonderful to know everything.
Oh, yes...doomed. Like that hasn't been said before.
Open email app
Create message
Press little pinkie on message body (further tests reveal that any finger will work just as well)
Little black menu pops up.
Press add attachment
icloud drive pops open
Select file
Send message
Method 2
Open iCloud Drive app
Press finger on file
Select more… from the menu
Select Share Item…
Select email
Send message
Supplementary notes
If neither of these methods work for you then check the following:
Is your iPhone running a recent version of iOS?
Are you wearing gloves?
Are you using an iPhone?
You're welcome.
Try purchasing an extra charger for the surface. It gets quite costly.
I can make my iPad Pro into an external monitor using duet display also. Doing so with the iPad allows me to use the iPad as a monitor with touchscreen functions. And when the iPad is removed, I use Splashtop to mirror the Mac or PC and never have to logout and login back into my applications. To be fair, the Surface does allow similar, but not the same degree of seamless functionality.
While I will agree that the track pad/mouse and an adjustable keyboard makes for a better experience in certain use cases, the iPad Pro beats the Surface overall for what I do. The pencil is superior to the surface stylus also.
If there is a mission critical application that exists only on Windows then the Surface becomes the obvious choice. Otherwise, the iPad Pro is superior for what I do and it isn't even close.
Once Apple puts out an iPad with an OLED screen, I will be upgrading again.
Battery life is a big negative thing of my SP4. And I agree with you with some benefits from the iPad Pro. But here are some things SP4 does better,
I can use the Surface Dock, and work with dual monitors o make the SP4 the secondary display. No need for an additional tablet device.
You already mention how the SP4 keyboard + trackpad and different angle is better. And the Pencil is not necessarily better. For example, I do a lot of handwriting notes, and the eraser in the Pen is great. That's something missing from the Pencil, and depending from your needs, it is and advantage of the Pen.
You made your points how iPad Pro is a better option for you. In my case, being capable to use the SP4 with a docking station to work desktop applications, the Pen / eraser for note taking and the keyboard / trackpad makes the SP4 a better option for me. Like I said before, both are great devices, and to say in absolute terms that one is better than the other, is nonsense.