Piracy question.

torifile

Am I pirating Jag if I download it while I wait for my copy to get here? I've ordered it and it's already out to consumers, so am I being a pirate? Just wondering what others think about this.



Also, is it piracy if I download something but don't actually install it? I've got a few things that I've stumbled across, thought would be cool to experiment with and then didn't do anything with them but I just have them on my harddrive, uninstalled. I guess I'm just looking for a little clarity on this issue. Any thoughts?



[ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: torifile ]</p>

tigerwoods99

There is nothing wrong with pirating. Besides, I don't think you are since you paid for a copy.

jambo

Just don't come back here and complain when your palms get hairy <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

dead cillia

[QUOTETigerWoods99]There is nothing wrong with pirating. [/QUOTE]





what kind of crack are you smoking? <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />



[ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: Dead Cillia ]</p>

murbot

[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:

<strong>There is nothing wrong with pirating.</strong><hr></blockquote>



That explains the problems you keep having with your Mac.



Karma.



[ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>

overhope

In copyright terms, making an unauthorised copy is piracy. Simple as that.

spotbug

[quote]Originally posted by torifile:

<strong>Am I pirating Jag if I download it while I wait for my copy to get here?</strong><hr></blockquote>



Pirating is making a copy of a work (software, book, article, painting - anything copyrightable) without the consent or authorization of the copyright holder (Apple, in this case).



It makes common sense that, since you paid (or will pay, when it ships) for Jaguar, you should be allowed to copy it from somewhere else, but that's not the (legal) case.



If you're wondering whether Apple would care, think about it this way: if you asked one of Apple's lawyers whether what you want to do would be considered pirating, what do you think they would say?

graphiteman

1) I don't see a problem; in fact, I was just trying to do the same. Please let us all know if you find a good source for it!



2) As long as it's uninstalled, I don't see a problem there either. But if you use it for anything other than monkying around, then it's a problem.

eman

I don't care what the law is, as long as you paid for it you should be able to do it.

amorya

Surely, since you're paying for a license to use the software, how you get the software shouldn't matter?



Amorya

spart

You should be okay so long as you don't loan the CD's or disk images out. Or install them on more than one of your own Macs.

mcq

Not really. Prerelease software is just that - prerelease software. Developer seed builds are meant for those who pay for the ADC subscription, and all the other builds are for whoever Apple authorizes to use them. You pay $129 for the license to use the final release in CD packaged form, and that's it. If you want to get the occasional Dev Build that Apple releases to ADC, go pay $199/year for the ADC mailing.



Edit: Seems like many others have a slightly different opinion on piracy. My view is probably the legal view... if you try to rationalize it, you get the other points of view.



[ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: MCQ ]</p>

torifile

MCQ, the 'prerelease' build you're talking about just happens to be 6c115, the build of the final. I understand that previous builds would be pirating, but what about this build?

mcq

I haven't used any of the Jaguar builds yet (just waiting around to get it through a student ADC mailing), so I don't know what Apple writes about each build, I'd imagine that all the builds (6C115 included) would probably have some stipulation in a readme that only testers and developers are supposed use it. You've already paid for it, so I don't really see the point in grabbing it early, you'll get it in two weeks. For me, the logic is if Apple thought it was okay for you to download it as soon as they declared a GM version, they'd offer a $129 download option. They didn't so they probably want you to wait for the boxed 10.2 to be delivered to you. If you want to get it just so that you can use it for another two weeks, that's up to you. I'm quite happy waiting to get it, it's gotta come sometime

torifile

Well, it's kinda like thinking about buying a computer. You buy it when you need it and don't wait any longer in the hopes it'll get cheaper or they'll get better. I get 2 more weeks out of it. That's good enough for me. And all the language in the agreement has been changed to reflect a retail version (it has to, otherwise it would be a different build number).



BTW, it was only $69 for me Student discount.

mcq

Yeah, I was going to buy it through Apple's edu store, but I figure since I'm studying computer science I might as well get the student ADC membership, $99 isn't too much more... and should I decide to buy a PowerMac at any point (doubtful it'll be too soon, just got an iBook a month ago), I can use the once per life discount

amorph

[quote]Originally posted by spotbug:

<strong>



Pirating is making a copy of a work (software, book, article, painting - anything copyrightable) without the consent or authorization of the copyright holder (Apple, in this case).</strong><hr></blockquote>



Actually, by copyright law it's publishing (i.e., making available to the public) unauthorized copies of a work. I can make all the copies of a book that I want to as long as I don't start distributing them. US Copyright law was, until 1988, concerned exclusively with publication, and much of the law reflects that.



Now, you might violate the software's license agreement by making or downloading a copy, even if you keep it for yourself. But that's contract law, not copyright law.

torifile

I've actually read some of my EULA's and the only one that I've found that specifically prohibited making copies (for backup/safe keeping purposes) are those that come with my GameCube games. Others don't seem to have this restriction.



So, I guess that means having copies of disc images on my HD, as long as they're not installed, would be ok? That's how I interpret it anyway. This is the problem with piracy rules, BTW. It's too vague and subject to interpretation. Interesting discussion fodder, though, isn't it?

spotbug

[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:

<strong>Actually, by copyright law it's publishing (i.e., making available to the public) unauthorized copies of a work. I can make all the copies of a book that I want to as long as I don't start distributing them. US Copyright law was, until 1988, concerned exclusively with publication, and much of the law reflects that.



Now, you might violate the software's license agreement by making or downloading a copy, even if you keep it for yourself. But that's contract law, not copyright law.</strong><hr></blockquote>



Actually, copyright law is concerned with copying, not publishing. Nowhere does it mention anything about publishing. It's all about making copies.



There is wording in copyright law that isn't beneficial to the copyright holder; things like fair use and backups and copyright time limits. Things the copyright holder can't dictate. For example, you are, regardless of license agreement, allowed to make a single backup copy of software for "safe keeping." Also, you are allowed to copy the software from the media it is stored on, to your computer's RAM so that you may use it (yes, that's actually in the law).

spotbug

[quote]Originally posted by Spart:

<strong>You should be okay so long as you don't loan the CD's or disk images out. Or install them on more than one of your own Macs.</strong><hr></blockquote>



Remeber that the original poster asked whether it's piracy, not whether it's "OK" or "not a problem" or whatever else. It is piracy. Having said that, I ordered my update but I'd accept a copy right now if I could get it by "some other means." But, I'd know full well I was pirating it. I just wouldn't feel bad about it.

firehc

what if i buy a copy of OS X J and install it in 2 Macs?