Irish cabinet votes to appeal EU's $14.5B tax penalty on Apple

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 56
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,083member
    The former EU Commissioner -- Neelie Kroes, who was no great friend of multinational corporations avoiding taxes -- is lambasting this EU decision and report. In The Guardian, no less. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/01/eu-state-aid-tax-avoidance-apple

    Worth a read, especially if you live, or do business, in the EU.

    Yap, Neelie Kroes.

    https://techcrunch.com/2016/05/06/uber-appoints-former-ec-vp-neelie-kroes-to-its-public-policy-board/

    Pretty sure that she wants those loopholes and special deals closed.


    edited September 2016 ronn
  • Reply 22 of 56
    adrayven said:
    Just because I have $1000 in the bank, doesn't mean I want to pay someone $10 just because it would be a hassle to fight it. The logic that because Apple has a lot of money on hand they should just pay it is asinine.
    I don't think anyone is arguing that are they? Those saying Apple should pay up, at least think it's ethical for Apple to pay taxes or even illegal not to.
    What are you talking about? Apple pays more taxes than any other corporation.
    They are the biggest corporation by a long way so yes, you would expect that.
    singularityronn
  • Reply 23 of 56
    Capriguy said:
    igorsky said:
    Capriguy said:
    No matter what Ireland wants they must comply with what we say. 
    I initially thought you were joking and thought this was hilarious. Then I read your previous post and realized that you might be crazy...please clarify.
    How much you pay in taxes igor? You probably owe us. Have you been in EU lately? If not for Apple Nokia be the most powerful mobile company in the world. Nokia had the best phones ever, and now it's unfair that Nokia can't make iPhone destroyer due to this tax deal. 
    That's funny. If I were you, I'd be far more worried about why the EU is incapable of producing an Apple, or a Google, or a Facebook, or an Amazon, or an EBay, or a Netflix, or a Tesla, or an Uber, or a SpaceX (notwithstanding yesterday's unfortunate event), or heck, the remote semblance of a Silicon Valley. Even China (admittedly by blatant copying, usually) has been able to.

    Do you wonder if there's something wrong with you folks across the pond? Why do you consume so many of America's products and services on these types innovations, and not produce your own?
    JanNLpalomineentropys
  • Reply 24 of 56
    JanNLJanNL Posts: 310member
    Capriguy said:
    igorsky said:
    Capriguy said:
    No matter what Ireland wants they must comply with what we say. 
    I initially thought you were joking and thought this was hilarious. Then I read your previous post and realized that you might be crazy...please clarify.
    How much you pay in taxes igor? You probably owe us. Have you been in EU lately? If not for Apple Nokia be the most powerful mobile company in the world. Nokia had the best phones ever, and now it's unfair that Nokia can't make iPhone destroyer due to this tax deal
    That's funny. If I were you, I'd be far more worried about why the EU is incapable of producing an Apple, or a Google, or a Facebook, or an Amazon, or an EBay, or a Netflix, or a Tesla, or an Uber, or a SpaceX (notwithstanding yesterday's unfortunate event), or heck, the remote semblance of a Silicon Valley. Even China (admittedly by blatant copying, usually) has been able to.

    Do you wonder if there's something wrong with you folks across the pond? Why do you consume so many of America's products and services on these types innovations, and not produce your own?
    It feels a bit like Capriguy looks a bit naive (almost childish) to Europe and tech?
    edited September 2016 Capriguyargonaut
  • Reply 25 of 56
    Capriguy said:
    igorsky said:
    Capriguy said:
    No matter what Ireland wants they must comply with what we say. 
    I initially thought you were joking and thought this was hilarious. Then I read your previous post and realized that you might be crazy...please clarify.
    How much you pay in taxes igor? You probably owe us. Have you been in EU lately? If not for Apple Nokia be the most powerful mobile company in the world. Nokia had the best phones ever, and now it's unfair that Nokia can't make iPhone destroyer due to this tax deal. 
    That's funny. If I were you, I'd be far more worried about why the EU is incapable of producing an Apple, or a Google, or a Facebook, or an Amazon, or an EBay, or a Netflix, or a Tesla, or an Uber, or a SpaceX (notwithstanding yesterday's unfortunate event), or heck, the remote semblance of a Silicon Valley. Even China (admittedly by blatant copying, usually) has been able to.

    Do you wonder if there's something wrong with you folks across the pond? Why do you consume so many of America's products and services on these types innovations, and not produce your own?
    Take a quick look at some of the largest or fastest growing companies in Europe. There's plenty of innovation in healthcare, automotive and energy. You probably don't see it because, well, you don't seem like someone with a very broad horizon
    singularityronnpropodargonaut
  • Reply 26 of 56
    Ireland really must press for this appeal, even if it's a halfhearted effort, otherwise they'll see every large business flee their territory.
    Capriguyentropys
  • Reply 27 of 56
    Wouldn't this also affect other US companies (Google, etc.) who are hold large sums of profit in Europe to avoid double-taxation by the US?

    SpamSandwichentropysgatorguy
  • Reply 28 of 56

    Kinda' reminds me of this:

    There was a old lady lived over the sea,
    And she was an island queen,
    Her daughter lived off in the new country,
    With miles of ocean between.

    The old lady's pockets were lined with gold,
    Yet never contented was she,
    So she ordered her daughter to pay her a tax,
    Of three-pence a pound for her tea.

    Oh mother, dear mother, the daughter replied,
    I'll not do the thing that you ask,
    I'm willing to pay fair price for the tea,
    But never the three-penny tax.

    You shall, cried the mother, and reddened with rage,
    For you're my own daughter, you see,
    And it's only proper that daughter should pay
    Her mother a tax on the tea.

    She ordered her servant to come up to her,
    And to wrap up a package of tea.
    And eager for three-ppence a pound she put in
    Enough for a large family.

    The tea was conveyed to her daughter's own door,
    All down by the oceanside,
    But the bouncing girl poured out ever pound
    On the dark and the boiling tide.

    And then she called out to the island queen,
    Oh mother, dear mother, called she,
    Your tea you may have when 'tis steeped enough,
    But never a tax from me!

  • Reply 29 of 56
    I think that the Irish Parliament and Apple have known all along that the ultimate tax collector would be the US and not the EU. The EU has known of this tax arrangement for a long time and is being vindictive about what happened in the US for the EU-centric companies such as BP and VW.  In all this brouhaha, Ireland has shown class and grace under pressure. My greatest respect for the country and their values! Perhaps other parties should take a note!!
    Capriguygoodbyeranch
  • Reply 30 of 56
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    I think that we're once again going to have to travel across the pond and kick some Euro ass, like we had to do before. It's been a while, but it looks like that time will maybe soon come again.

    This is Ireland's mess and they need to deal with it and clean up their affairs. Either that, or lose a significant portion of their business dealings with various, big, multi-national companies.

    Either Ireland is a country, or it's not.

    Either the Irish control Ireland or the Belgians and Germans do. As more and more countries are finding out, being a part of the EU is ending up being a whole lot more than they bargained for or ever imagined.

    There is also a rare, old US law that can be activated and used to punish Euro companies and citizens in the US. Perhaps it's time to dig out that old US law and apply it.


    edited September 2016 Capriguyentropys
  • Reply 31 of 56
    apple ][ said:
    I think that we're once again going to have travel across the pond and kick some Euro ass, like we had to do before. It's been a while, but it looks like that time will maybe soon come again.

    This is Ireland's mess and they need to deal with it and clean up their affairs. Either that, or lose a significant portion of their business dealings with various, big, multi-national companies.

    Either Ireland is a country, or it's not.

    Either the Irish control Ireland or the Belgians and Germans do. As more and more countries are finding out, being a part of the EU is ending up being a whole lot more than they bargained for or ever imagined.

    There is also a rare, old US law that can be activated and used to punish Euro companies and citizens in the US. Perhaps it's time to dig out that old US law and apply it.


    'Murica.. fuck yeah!


    entropysronnargonaut
  • Reply 32 of 56
    apple ][ said:
    I think that we're once again going to have travel across the pond and kick some Euro ass, like we had to do before. It's been a while, but it looks like that time will maybe soon come again.

    This is Ireland's mess and they need to deal with it and clean up their affairs. Either that, or lose a significant portion of their business dealings with various, big, multi-national companies.

    Either Ireland is a country, or it's not.

    Either the Irish control Ireland or the Belgians and Germans do. As more and more countries are finding out, being a part of the EU is ending up being a whole lot more than they bargained for or ever imagined.

    There is also a rare, old US law that can be activated and used to punish Euro companies and citizens in the US. Perhaps it's time to dig out that old US law and apply it.


    'Murica.. fuck yeah!


    Awesome!  You spelled it right!  (....with a "u")
    Capriguyentropysronn
  • Reply 33 of 56
    apple ][ said:
    I think that we're once again going to have travel across the pond and kick some Euro ass, like we had to do before. It's been a while, but it looks like that time will maybe soon come again.

    This is Ireland's mess and they need to deal with it and clean up their affairs. Either that, or lose a significant portion of their business dealings with various, big, multi-national companies.

    Either Ireland is a country, or it's not.

    Either the Irish control Ireland or the Belgians and Germans do. As more and more countries are finding out, being a part of the EU is ending up being a whole lot more than they bargained for or ever imagined.

    There is also a rare, old US law that can be activated and used to punish Euro companies and citizens in the US. Perhaps it's time to dig out that old US law and apply it.


    I would not be surprised at all if this is the start of the process that sees Ireland leave the EU.  I say more power to them.
    Capriguyentropys
  • Reply 34 of 56
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,083member
    toddzrx said:
    apple ][ said:
    I think that we're once again going to have travel across the pond and kick some Euro ass, like we had to do before. It's been a while, but it looks like that time will maybe soon come again.

    This is Ireland's mess and they need to deal with it and clean up their affairs. Either that, or lose a significant portion of their business dealings with various, big, multi-national companies.

    Either Ireland is a country, or it's not.

    Either the Irish control Ireland or the Belgians and Germans do. As more and more countries are finding out, being a part of the EU is ending up being a whole lot more than they bargained for or ever imagined.

    There is also a rare, old US law that can be activated and used to punish Euro companies and citizens in the US. Perhaps it's time to dig out that old US law and apply it.


    I would not be surprised at all if this is the start of the process that sees Ireland leave the EU.  I say more power to them.
    Yap, because Ireland is a net payer in the EU
    ronn
  • Reply 35 of 56
    To those in favor of this penalty, do you somehow think that by Apple paying more taxes you will pay less? If so, I'd like some of what you've been smoking.

    Perhaps you feel Apple has too much money and should spread the wealth. Who do you think is going to pay the bill for higher corporate taxes? Apple? Not hardly. It'll be paid for by the consumer in the form of higher prices for Apple products. So, if you're an Apple customer, you're essentially asking to pay more in taxes yourself. Great plan.
    Capriguy
  • Reply 36 of 56
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,083member
    artdent said:
    To those in favor of this penalty, do you somehow think that by Apple paying more taxes you will pay less? If so, I'd like some of what you've been smoking.

    Perhaps you feel Apple has too much money and should spread the wealth. Who do you think is going to pay the bill for higher corporate taxes? Apple? Not hardly. It'll be paid for by the consumer in the form of higher prices for Apple products. So, if you're an Apple customer, you're essentially asking to pay more in taxes yourself. Great plan.

    Oh, no, I don't way to pay less taxes, I want that Apple, IKEA, Google, the 35 European companies found having illegal state aids by Belgium like Apple in Ireland and the other companies in Luxembourg, Belgium, the Netherlands or Ireland with secret deals with those governments to pay the taxes owed, nothing more, nothing less.

    Taxes owed to EU countries or to the US
    edited September 2016 ronncropr
  • Reply 37 of 56
    toddzrx said:
    I would not be surprised at all if this is the start of the process that sees Ireland leave the EU.  I say more power to them.
    It would be interesting if the US were to end up creating a free-trade area with Ireland and Great Britain. They have far more in common with governance structures in this country than with the EU. Hey, over time, perhaps ever a merger? If nothing else, it'll dramatically expand fishing rights for all....
    edited September 2016
  • Reply 38 of 56
    adrayven said:
    Just because I have $1000 in the bank, doesn't mean I want to pay someone $10 just because it would be a hassle to fight it. The logic that because Apple has a lot of money on hand they should just pay it is asinine.
    I don't think anyone is arguing that are they? Those saying Apple should pay up, at least think it's ethical for Apple to pay taxes or even illegal not to.
    What are you talking about? Apple pays more taxes than any other corporation.
    They are the biggest corporation by a long way so yes, you would expect that.
    and yet there are other massive US companies that have famously paid $0 in income tax -- GE, for example. they were in fact owed a credit by the time the paperwork was finished. that's the point. 
    edited September 2016
  • Reply 39 of 56
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,116member
    gwydion said:
    toddzrx said:
    apple ][ said:
    I think that we're once again going to have travel across the pond and kick some Euro ass, like we had to do before. It's been a while, but it looks like that time will maybe soon come again.

    This is Ireland's mess and they need to deal with it and clean up their affairs. Either that, or lose a significant portion of their business dealings with various, big, multi-national companies.

    Either Ireland is a country, or it's not.

    Either the Irish control Ireland or the Belgians and Germans do. As more and more countries are finding out, being a part of the EU is ending up being a whole lot more than they bargained for or ever imagined.

    There is also a rare, old US law that can be activated and used to punish Euro companies and citizens in the US. Perhaps it's time to dig out that old US law and apply it.


    I would not be surprised at all if this is the start of the process that sees Ireland leave the EU.  I say more power to them.
    Yap, because Ireland is a net payer in the EU
    What price freedom?
  • Reply 40 of 56
    steven n.steven n. Posts: 1,223member
    gwydion said:
    How many times must be said that the tax rates of Ireland are not the problem?
    It's the EC and EU. From the Right to White Wash history to this, the EU/EC simply makes stuff up as they go. No wonder the Brexit passed. 
    entropys
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